RDW as we know it is dead. A new approach is definitely needed. As soon as infernal plunge was spoiled, I knew it could be used for something great (especially comboed with geosurge). Here are some lists and the start of a primer.
Primer (work in progess)
This deck is abut dropping Fatties and Planeswalkers ahead of schedule using rituals (Infernal Plunge and Geosurge). It is mono red with a splash of phyrexian blue to deal with control. There is minimal burn in this deck, making it different from Big Red. This not control, it is aggro. With out further ado, here are the card choices:
Creatures
With a CMC of 0: Memnite: The original engine for Infernal Plunge. It has fallen out of favor, and people are now running more powerful early drops
With a CMC of 1: Goblin Arsonist: One of the best creatures to sac to Infernal Plunge because it burns while it plunges. Can ping pesky 1/1s, planeswalkers, or opponents. Auto-Include
Reckless Waif: A nice 1 drop because it can get pretty big. Forces some control players to do some weird things in order keep it small. Replaced Memnite in my build.
Stromkirk Noble: Generally a good 1 drop for red aggro, but because we tend to sac our small guys, I wouldn't recommend him.
Grim Lavamancer: I never tested this, but you could use your rituals as fodder.
Furnace Scamp: Not that good because if we sac him, he loses any usefulness
With a CMC of 2: Stormblood Berserker: A nice option if you don't draw a ritual. Has some synergy with goblin arsonist. Can clog your hand if you draw a ritual and go right into a t2 koth ect.
With a CMC of 3: Chandra's Phoenix: A good creature in general because of haste and flying, but the lack of burn makes him difficult to recur.
[CARD]
Vulshok Refugee[/CARD]: A nice sideboard card, shuts down mirror match, RDW, Goblins, ect.
[CARD]
Manic Vandal[/CARD]: Another good sideboard card, especially against pod and anything running swords
Priest of Urabrask: A free creature, but not exactly that useful unless you draw plunge late
With a CMC of 4: Hero of Oxid Ridge: I like him because he shuts down Tempered Steel, tokens, ect. early. Not everyone agrees with me on this one.
Molten-Tail Masticore: The more popular 4-drop creature, which can burn away larger threats and opponents. The drawback concerns me because we tend to empty our hands rather quickly.
[CARD]
Phyrexian Metamorph[/CARD]: Copies your fatties, your opponent's fatties, their sword. Amazing
With a CMC of 5: Urabrask the Hidden: An interesting choice for the 5 drop slot, where this deck seems to have nothing, but hasn't been tested much. I don't know how much the haste would affect the game, but the tap ability could certainly be useful
With a CMC of 6: Inferno Titan: A great finisher to Geosurge into. Auto-Include
Wurmcoil Engine: Heavy lifegain, deals with Dungrove elder, and a huge fatty. Amazing.
With a CMC of 7:
[CARD]
Balefire Dragon[/CARD]: I used to run this. Deals with dungrove elder fairly well, and other stuff as well.
[CARD]
Furyborn Hellkite[/CARD]: Can get really fat. I'd rather some something with some sort of ability though.
[CARD]
Chancellor of the Forge[/CARD]: Gives you a free creature to sac, but it can't perform this task at all times which I find is a bit of a drawback.
Spells
With a CMC of 1: Infernal Plunge: The engine of this deck. Auto-include
Gitaxian Probe: Great for the control matchup, or any matchup where you feel your fatty might be in danger. The draw is nice too
[CARD]
Shock[/CARD]: Sub par. Run Incinerate or Brimstone Volley.
[CARD]
Gut Shot[/CARD]: See Shock
[CARD]
Galvanic Blast[/CARD]: Great if you run tons of artifacts. Otherwise just a shock.
With a CMC of 2: Incinerate: Lightning Bolt's Replacement. It is useful, but I am considering Brimstone Volley or Shrine of Burning Rage.
Arc Trail: Great against Tempered steel and anything with lots of small creatures. Sideboard.
With a CMC of 3: Brimstone Volley: An interesting possibility, but I'm not sure how often morbid would get online
[CARD]
Volt Charge[/CARD]: Great if you run Tumble magnet, Sphere of Suns, and planeswalkers.
[CARD]
Slagstrom[/CARD]: A great Sweeper against tokens, ect. Depends on your meta.
[CARD]
Dismember[/CARD]: Kills Phyrexian Obliterators and almost everything else. Sideboard.
With a CMC of 4: Geosurge: Our other engine. Auto-include
Tezzeret's Gambit: Better Card draw than Gitaxian Probe, but I don't know how much we can proliferate.
Artifacts
With a CMC of 2: Shrine of Burning Rage: Excellent against control, and a wincon unto itself. MD or SB, your choice.
Sphere of the Suns: Alternative way to ramp, and great with proliferation cards
With a CMC of 3: Tumble Magnet: A nice way to control your opponents a little more, and good for the proliferation build.
Just played my toughest matchup yet : Competitive UW control with swords and stalker - I won 2-1!
Hero of Oxid Ridge was champ. Ploughed through timley reinforcements and various spirits with an army of memnites. Invisible stalker is a big problem when equiped, but a well placed manic vandal works wonders. Keep a hand with at least 2 fattys, because mana leak is a constant threat. Inferno Titan was really useful as well.
Puresteel WW: 2-0
A t2 inferno titan destroyed him game 1. A steady stream of early casted fattys and planeswalkers kept him at bay game 2. Arc trail sided in is very useful, and you might want to think about manic vandal as well. This is one of the reasons why i am keeping titan in build.
Tempered steel: 2-0
You need to be very quick to win this. G1 was easy by pulling a t2 koth. G2 was tough. he had me down to 3 life before i blasted his army with inferno titan and resolved koth's ultimate. Goblin arsonist was actually very useful.
I'm sitting on a playset of koths and phoenixes as well and am trying to figure out just where they belong. There's synergy between the phoenix and and plunge, and to some extent geosurge I guess. Shrine of burning win belongs in the deck for sure. A deck running infernal with memnites puts you at 8 artifacts in deck. If you could make the jump to using a few more you could justify using galvanic blast.
Now that I realize it I'm just theorycrafting metal red again
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Quote from Beefhouse3D »
I like to protect frightened things perhaps. I assembled them in the fortress of beefitude for safety.
RDW as we know it is dead. A new approach is definitely needed. As soon as infernal plunge was spoiled, I knew it could be used for something great (especially comboed with geosurge). Here is my first attempt at a list.
Balefire Dragon: Shuts down Dunrove.dec, one of red's biggest problems
Incinerate: Some fast removal is needed
LMK what you think.
Looks like fun! What is your MO? Memnite to feed Plunge, into T1 Koth? Maybe with a stupid good hand of Mountain, Memnite, Memnite, Plunge, Plunge, Geosurge, Inferno Titan/Balefire Dragon, you could get some effective T1 wins (because how do you answer a T1 Titan?). I will have to try this out on MWS.
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I would ditch the Berserker and the Phoenix for Shrines and Arc Trails.
Berserker has been great. If i dont draw plunge, he backs me up and the block ability hits hard early. I like shrine and trail, but phoenixes are pretty good. I'll have to judge the meta post rotation to decide where things go.
Looks like fun! What is your MO? Memnite to feed Plunge, into T1 Koth? Maybe with a stupid good hand of Mountain, Memnite, Memnite, Plunge, Plunge, Geosurge, Inferno Titan/Balefire Dragon, you could get some effective T1 wins (because how do you answer a T1 Titan?). I will have to try this out on MWS.
Pretty much got it right (although goblin arsonist serves the purpose better by burning with his ability while plunging). T1 win is impossible, but t2 isnt.
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RGW Mayael The Anima (EDH) UB Tezzeret Artifact Control (Standard) Trade thread
Unfortunately theres a gap between geosurge and plunge. Plunge requires your T1 mana to cast along with a t1 creature, using a memnite gives you 3 mana and tapped out. From that you can play really nothing worthwhile on turn one
Turn 2 would be the big turn in this deck because it opens up access to plunge into geosurge. So technically a turn two win isn't even possible. After that though you can drop a t2 koth, titan or even balefire. This would be close to an all-in red deck because you'd have to have a near godhand each time.
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Quote from Beefhouse3D »
I like to protect frightened things perhaps. I assembled them in the fortress of beefitude for safety.
Looks like fun! What is your MO? Memnite to feed Plunge, into T1 Koth? Maybe with a stupid good hand of Mountain, Memnite, Memnite, Plunge, Plunge, Geosurge, Inferno Titan/Balefire Dragon, you could get some effective T1 wins (because how do you answer a T1 Titan?). I will have to try this out on MWS.
a turn 2 doom blade. A turn 3 Liliana. A turn 4 DoJ.
I'm not saying it's not good, but if you empty your hand for a Titan and it dies to a doom blade..you're gonna be way behind.
Unfortunately theres a gap between geosurge and plunge. Plunge requires your T1 mana to cast along with a t1 creature, using a memnite gives you 3 mana and tapped out. From that you can play really nothing worthwhile on turn one
Turn 2 would be the big turn in this deck because it opens up access to plunge into geosurge. So technically a turn two win isn't even possible. After that though you can drop a t2 koth, titan or even balefire. This would be close to an all-in red deck because you'd have to have a near godhand each time.
Firstly, if an opponent has no way to deal with titan/balefire, they'll probably concede. Secondly, this deck functions with only 1 of the 2 red mana spells, or even none, That's what stormblood berserker, Hero of oxid ridge, and phoenix to an extent are for.
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This is really bizarre, because I had an idea that is ridiculously close to this. I'm working on a list right now, and I'll get back to you when it's done.
Here's my first attempt, it's not very refined. I like the inclusion of shrine of burning rage for some added late game, but it's a little creature lite.
Here's my first attempt, it's not very refined. I like the inclusion of shrine of burning rage for some added late game, but it's a little creature lite.
I don't think theres enough fuel to run 4x Grims. I think he's a good card for sure but not a 4 of in this deck. Maybe -2 Grims +2 Tezzerets Gambit?
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I like to protect frightened things perhaps. I assembled them in the fortress of beefitude for safety.
I like the idea, i have been testing tho and it just seems really inconsistent and unreliable.
Unreliable. Not that much. I think this deck is a good base, it just need some more work to shine. Will try some things here and i will report what i saw and did.
The results made me quite happy. Infernal Plunge + Geosurge can do great thigns putting some big monsters on early turns. The thing a like most here is variaty of fatties you can drop. Urabrask for speed, Titan for removal of blockers and the Dragons for some raw damage.
Other thing i like to point is the flexibility of the 1 drop spot. There are some creatures that can fit in there perfectaly.
I would like to hear what do you think. Improvements are welcome.
The results made me quite happy. Infernal Plunge + Geosurge can do great thigns putting some big monsters on early turns. The thing a like most here is variaty of fatties you can drop. Urabrask for speed, Titan for removal of blockers and the Dragons for some raw damage.
Other thing i like to point is the flexibility of the 1 drop spot. There are some creatures that can fit in there perfectaly.
I would like to hear what do you think. Improvements are welcome.
You need 4 drops. T1 memenite, t2 plunge into koth. I've done that, and it's fun. Hero of oxid ridge helps alot. I would also recommend running goblin arsonist.
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The results made me quite happy. Infernal Plunge + Geosurge can do great thigns putting some big monsters on early turns. The thing a like most here is variaty of fatties you can drop. Urabrask for speed, Titan for removal of blockers and the Dragons for some raw damage.
Other thing i like to point is the flexibility of the 1 drop spot. There are some creatures that can fit in there perfectaly.
I would like to hear what do you think. Improvements are welcome.
Love the deck, I'm new to Magic so I don't know how much help I can bring but what about Koth? If you don't draw into the 8 or so mana ramp cards you can still double your mana pool and then drop somethin' scary.
Also why not run the new Charmbreaker Devils? They return a sorcery on your upkeep so you could get to the point where you're just Geosurging every turn.
How about Devil's Play or Fireball as a one-of, or more? If nothing else, it gives you an out for extra mana (giving you more of a late game), and you can surge it for some extra damage, although it's not quite enough for a T1 or T2 kill even with a god hand.
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Planning to Return to Ravnica.
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Hi everyone,
RDW as we know it is dead. A new approach is definitely needed. As soon as infernal plunge was spoiled, I knew it could be used for something great (especially comboed with geosurge). Here are some lists and the start of a primer.
With a CMC of 0:
Memnite: The original engine for Infernal Plunge. It has fallen out of favor, and people are now running more powerful early drops
With a CMC of 1:
Goblin Arsonist: One of the best creatures to sac to Infernal Plunge because it burns while it plunges. Can ping pesky 1/1s, planeswalkers, or opponents. Auto-Include
Reckless Waif: A nice 1 drop because it can get pretty big. Forces some control players to do some weird things in order keep it small. Replaced Memnite in my build.
Stromkirk Noble: Generally a good 1 drop for red aggro, but because we tend to sac our small guys, I wouldn't recommend him.
Grim Lavamancer: I never tested this, but you could use your rituals as fodder.
Furnace Scamp: Not that good because if we sac him, he loses any usefulness
With a CMC of 2:
Stormblood Berserker: A nice option if you don't draw a ritual. Has some synergy with goblin arsonist. Can clog your hand if you draw a ritual and go right into a t2 koth ect.
With a CMC of 3:
Chandra's Phoenix: A good creature in general because of haste and flying, but the lack of burn makes him difficult to recur.
[CARD]
Vulshok Refugee[/CARD]: A nice sideboard card, shuts down mirror match, RDW, Goblins, ect.
[CARD]
Manic Vandal[/CARD]: Another good sideboard card, especially against pod and anything running swords
Priest of Urabrask: A free creature, but not exactly that useful unless you draw plunge late
With a CMC of 4:
Hero of Oxid Ridge: I like him because he shuts down Tempered Steel, tokens, ect. early. Not everyone agrees with me on this one.
Molten-Tail Masticore: The more popular 4-drop creature, which can burn away larger threats and opponents. The drawback concerns me because we tend to empty our hands rather quickly.
[CARD]
Phyrexian Metamorph[/CARD]: Copies your fatties, your opponent's fatties, their sword. Amazing
With a CMC of 5:
Urabrask the Hidden: An interesting choice for the 5 drop slot, where this deck seems to have nothing, but hasn't been tested much. I don't know how much the haste would affect the game, but the tap ability could certainly be useful
With a CMC of 6:
Inferno Titan: A great finisher to Geosurge into. Auto-Include
Wurmcoil Engine: Heavy lifegain, deals with Dungrove elder, and a huge fatty. Amazing.
With a CMC of 7:
[CARD]
Balefire Dragon[/CARD]: I used to run this. Deals with dungrove elder fairly well, and other stuff as well.
[CARD]
Furyborn Hellkite[/CARD]: Can get really fat. I'd rather some something with some sort of ability though.
[CARD]
Chancellor of the Forge[/CARD]: Gives you a free creature to sac, but it can't perform this task at all times which I find is a bit of a drawback.
Infernal Plunge: The engine of this deck. Auto-include
Gitaxian Probe: Great for the control matchup, or any matchup where you feel your fatty might be in danger. The draw is nice too
[CARD]
Shock[/CARD]: Sub par. Run Incinerate or Brimstone Volley.
[CARD]
Gut Shot[/CARD]: See Shock
[CARD]
Galvanic Blast[/CARD]: Great if you run tons of artifacts. Otherwise just a shock.
With a CMC of 2:
Incinerate: Lightning Bolt's Replacement. It is useful, but I am considering Brimstone Volley or Shrine of Burning Rage.
Combust: Great against UW control. Sideboard it.
Arc Trail: Great against Tempered steel and anything with lots of small creatures. Sideboard.
With a CMC of 3:
Brimstone Volley: An interesting possibility, but I'm not sure how often morbid would get online
[CARD]
Volt Charge[/CARD]: Great if you run Tumble magnet, Sphere of Suns, and planeswalkers.
[CARD]
Slagstrom[/CARD]: A great Sweeper against tokens, ect. Depends on your meta.
[CARD]
Dismember[/CARD]: Kills Phyrexian Obliterators and almost everything else. Sideboard.
With a CMC of 4:
Geosurge: Our other engine. Auto-include
Tezzeret's Gambit: Better Card draw than Gitaxian Probe, but I don't know how much we can proliferate.
Shrine of Burning Rage: Excellent against control, and a wincon unto itself. MD or SB, your choice.
Sphere of the Suns: Alternative way to ramp, and great with proliferation cards
With a CMC of 3:
Tumble Magnet: A nice way to control your opponents a little more, and good for the proliferation build.
Current:
3 Inferno Titan
4 Reckless Waif
3 Solemn Simulacrum
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Hero of Oxid Ridge
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Geosurge
4 Infernal Plunge
4 Brimstone Volley
3 Gitaxian Probe
23 Mountain
3 Combust
3 Manic Vandal
3 Arc Trail
3 Shrine of Burning rage
3 Dismember
Original
3 Inferno Titan
4 Memnite
3 Stromblood Berserker
3 Hero of Oxid Riddge
3 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Balefire Dragon
4 Geosurge
4 Infernal Plunge
4 Incinerate
Battle Reports:
UW Control (Competitive): 2-1
Hero of Oxid Ridge was champ. Ploughed through timley reinforcements and various spirits with an army of memnites. Invisible stalker is a big problem when equiped, but a well placed manic vandal works wonders. Keep a hand with at least 2 fattys, because mana leak is a constant threat. Inferno Titan was really useful as well.
Puresteel WW: 2-0
A t2 inferno titan destroyed him game 1. A steady stream of early casted fattys and planeswalkers kept him at bay game 2. Arc trail sided in is very useful, and you might want to think about manic vandal as well. This is one of the reasons why i am keeping titan in build.
Tempered steel: 2-0
You need to be very quick to win this. G1 was easy by pulling a t2 koth. G2 was tough. he had me down to 3 life before i blasted his army with inferno titan and resolved koth's ultimate. Goblin arsonist was actually very useful.
LMK what you think.
RGW Mayael The Anima (EDH)
UB Tezzeret Artifact Control (Standard)
Trade thread
I was thinking that, but where is a slot?
Edit: I just went 4-0 witth this!
RGW Mayael The Anima (EDH)
UB Tezzeret Artifact Control (Standard)
Trade thread
Now that I realize it I'm just theorycrafting metal red again
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Looks like fun! What is your MO? Memnite to feed Plunge, into T1 Koth? Maybe with a stupid good hand of Mountain, Memnite, Memnite, Plunge, Plunge, Geosurge, Inferno Titan/Balefire Dragon, you could get some effective T1 wins (because how do you answer a T1 Titan?). I will have to try this out on MWS.
Standard Cheapskate Extraordinaire!
In Progress:
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Planning to Return to Ravnica.
Exactly lol
Berserker has been great. If i dont draw plunge, he backs me up and the block ability hits hard early. I like shrine and trail, but phoenixes are pretty good. I'll have to judge the meta post rotation to decide where things go.
Pretty much got it right (although goblin arsonist serves the purpose better by burning with his ability while plunging). T1 win is impossible, but t2 isnt.
RGW Mayael The Anima (EDH)
UB Tezzeret Artifact Control (Standard)
Trade thread
Turn 2 would be the big turn in this deck because it opens up access to plunge into geosurge. So technically a turn two win isn't even possible. After that though you can drop a t2 koth, titan or even balefire. This would be close to an all-in red deck because you'd have to have a near godhand each time.
a turn 2 doom blade. A turn 3 Liliana. A turn 4 DoJ.
I'm not saying it's not good, but if you empty your hand for a Titan and it dies to a doom blade..you're gonna be way behind.
That's why i prefer dropping koth first.
Firstly, if an opponent has no way to deal with titan/balefire, they'll probably concede. Secondly, this deck functions with only 1 of the 2 red mana spells, or even none, That's what stormblood berserker, Hero of oxid ridge, and phoenix to an extent are for.
RGW Mayael The Anima (EDH)
UB Tezzeret Artifact Control (Standard)
Trade thread
His list was slightly different though, I remember Curse of Stalked Prey and Nightbird's Clutches.
Standard Reanimator GO! (Seriously I'm like 12-5 with the deck, it's definitely something to consider).
dredge t.e.s. loam
- Bryant Cook
4x Geosurge
4x Grim Lavamancer
3x Hero of Oxid Ridge
4x Infernal Plunge
4x Inferno Titan
4x Koth of the Hammer
23x Mountain
4x Shrine of Burning Rage
3x Sphere of the Suns
3x Volt Charge
2x Wurmcoil Engine
Here's my first attempt, it's not very refined. I like the inclusion of shrine of burning rage for some added late game, but it's a little creature lite.
Doublepost merged and warned.
-Sene
I don't think theres enough fuel to run 4x Grims. I think he's a good card for sure but not a 4 of in this deck. Maybe -2 Grims +2 Tezzerets Gambit?
Standard:
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Modern:
UR Storm UR
Melira POD (In progress)
EDH :
RBW Kaalia Of The Vast RBW
Unreliable. Not that much. I think this deck is a good base, it just need some more work to shine. Will try some things here and i will report what i saw and did.
Modern SplinterTwin
priest of urabrask
pyretic ritual
urabrask
wurmcoil
eh? eh?
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
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22 Mountains
Creature
4 Memnite
4 Goblin Fireslinger
3 Priest of Urabrask
3 Inferno Titan
3 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Furyborn Hellkite
3 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Urabrask the Hidden
4 Incinerate
Sorcery
4 Infernal Plunge
4 Geosurge
3 Balefire Dragon
The results made me quite happy. Infernal Plunge + Geosurge can do great thigns putting some big monsters on early turns. The thing a like most here is variaty of fatties you can drop. Urabrask for speed, Titan for removal of blockers and the Dragons for some raw damage.
Other thing i like to point is the flexibility of the 1 drop spot. There are some creatures that can fit in there perfectaly.
I would like to hear what do you think. Improvements are welcome.
You need 4 drops. T1 memenite, t2 plunge into koth. I've done that, and it's fun. Hero of oxid ridge helps alot. I would also recommend running goblin arsonist.
RGW Mayael The Anima (EDH)
UB Tezzeret Artifact Control (Standard)
Trade thread
Love the deck, I'm new to Magic so I don't know how much help I can bring but what about Koth? If you don't draw into the 8 or so mana ramp cards you can still double your mana pool and then drop somethin' scary.
Also why not run the new Charmbreaker Devils? They return a sorcery on your upkeep so you could get to the point where you're just Geosurging every turn.
Standard Cheapskate Extraordinaire!
In Progress:
Nothing - Sold it all!
Planning to Return to Ravnica.
- Carl Sagan quote on Cannabis
EDH:
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Sliver Overlord:symg::symr::symb::symu::symw:
Standard:
:symw::symu::symg:Bant Pod:symg::symu::symw: