If this is going to be the human thread, can you please edit it from being G/W? Many variants do not run G.
To continue from the last thread, and the question of why not to run Invisible Stalker: He truly isn't worth it. If you ran/sided in swords, I could see it, because a Stalker with a sword is a scary thing. Why would you run him when you could run things such as Grand Abolisher or Elite Inquisitor, who both imo have more upside in this meta? Also, with that list, you're also using Honor of the Pure to pump your creatures. Stalker doesn't get that benefit. I could see a build utilizing Stalker, but I don't think its U/W Aggro Humans.
Hamlet Captain doesn't fit in U/W lol. I think that in G/W, you better have a damn good reason not to be running him.
And I think it fits fine in here. I've never been one of the opinion that you absolutely must run a Lord for a deck to be considered tribal. After all, Zendikar vamps had no lord, and you don't get much more tribal than them.
What are peoples thoughts on Doomed Traveler? I'm running a list much like the above one, although it isn't running the Geist/Angelic Destiny package (still splashes U for Moorland Haunt and counters in sideboard). I've been mulling over the thought of dropping to two Gideon's Lawkeeper and making two other opening for them, since they give such great utility when combined with Moorland Haunt and Honor of the Pure.
This is mainly for a different build with colors green and white. I agree with the deck you put up, but the discussion on that deck is on a different thread.
As far as Hamlet Captain, I think he's an excellent 2 drop here.
What about adaptive automaton? Deck in first post is just GW tokens without Intangible Virtue and Midnight Haunting...
Is it really so different that GW tokens? Maybe GW aggro thread would work just fine for both...
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Decks:
EDH: :symbw::symuw::symub:Merieke Ri Berit:symbw::symuw::symub:
Archenemy EDH: Reaper king
i mainly was building a g/w humans because i thought mentor of the meek was so great...
.. but it turns out that his high mana cost (2W) with the additional activation cost (1 per cantrip) isn't enough to warrant him in any aggro/midrange.. he's just too slow I found.
He also competes with Mirran Crusader, Oblivion Ring, and Blade Splicer. What's everyone's thought on Meek? He's been a dissapointment to me in testing I've done (he really gets insane draws, but I'm already "winning" before i start drawing the cards).
I think there are better options. I would prefer to just run a playset of Lead the Stampede to reload my hand. Statistically you're getting 2 creatures out of it (using most of the W/G lists that I've seen) and occassionally you'll get those really nutty shows. It's less susceptible to hate, as Mentor is, and as you said, it doesn't conflict with the other good three drops.
Personally, I love Blade Splicer, but don't see it having a home in Human decks. Mirran Crusader is head and shoulders above it, and Geist of Saint Traft and Fiend Hunter are close followers. If the token were Human or W, then it might be a difference, but as it stands I think Splicer is just awkward.
How would you stop DoJ/Slagstorm with GW version ?
I really like Elesh Norn, and the only way I see she becoming viable, is running green for some ramps.
You gotta give this a more creative name than G/W Humans IMO. Call it something like The Village People (just an idea).
On the deck itself, I really like what Mentor of the Meek brings to the table... it really allows you to overextend more than you usually could because you'll still have cards in your hand.
Champion, great bang for your buck white 1drop. Add to the fact that both Adaptive Automaton and Mayor of Avabruck give it the +1/+1 from their lordliness, AND another since they are both humans when they enter the field. These 4 I would say are a core of a G/W build(creaturewise) as far as I have seen it.
As much as I love Elesh Norn, I don't see her being useful in a Human list. Tokens, quite possibly, since they play a later game anyways. But Humans should be swinging fast and furiously, since they can end the game on t4 at times.
I like The Village People for a name. Honor of the pure is in there purely for the fact that it hits most of the creatures, i could see it coming out but I don't know what for at this point though. The two of Angelic Destiny is just fantastic. It lets you fly over most of the stuff in standard and when you put it on Mirran Crusader.... Yeah.
I built a modified list off of Jacob's budget G/W Humans list http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/boab/162 and made some changes, glad to see that some of the sample lists above followed the same thought pattern as me. Elspeth, Gavony township and Hero of Bladehold being among them. :-P This is Jacob's deck below, definitely a budget build.
I'll post my build later in the week after I finish the last pieces.
I ordered a couple Elspeth as I never managed to land any or had a use for them before so those will go in after. The base list above just seemed too light with no finishers so aside from Elspeth and Hero of Bladehold I figured I'd try a couple Thraben Sentry as well. Those very well may get cut for the Elspeth when she arrives with the dozens of other m12 and innistrad I've ordered in the last couple weeks. Wife is going to flip her lid when all those envelopes show up. :-P
i mainly was building a g/w humans because i thought mentor of the meek was so great...
.. but it turns out that his high mana cost (2W) with the additional activation cost (1 per cantrip) isn't enough to warrant him in any aggro/midrange.. he's just too slow I found.
He also competes with Mirran Crusader, Oblivion Ring, and Blade Splicer. What's everyone's thought on Meek? He's been a dissapointment to me in testing I've done (he really gets insane draws, but I'm already "winning" before i start drawing the cards).
Agree on all account. Mentor of the meek looks good on paper but in actual testing it requires huge mana investment. If your running the list like in the OP where there are 10 mana dorks, he is playable but in a W/G deck which only uses Avacyn's Pilgrim as the only mana dork not worth it IMHO.
Lead the stampede is far more versatile as we can wait for an opportunity to cast it, preferably after a board wipe; so it does not compete with our curve as we want to cast those 1-3 cmc humans ASAP to pump up the Champion.
*************************
Based on SCG Indianapolis Standard results, W/G Human is currently being outclass by Tempered Steel. TS is far more faster (colored artifacts creatures with Phyrexian Mana) and have evasion (even though they have lost Ornithoper post rotation, they are now using Spined Thopter/Vault Skirge; an Etched Champion with an active metal craft is just a monster without a board wipe).
How do improve our match up against TS? Here are my thoughts:
1.) The mantra "If their deck is faster than yours, play control; if slower than yours, play aggro" is very much applicable here. Let us admit it, TS is more faster than W/G Human. Therefore our line of play should be more controlish rather than matching them at their speed. Play creatures like Gideon Lawkeeper (tapped those Vault Skirges to prevent their life gain) and Grand Abolisher (great against Dispatch and builds running Blue for counters) and cards like Nevermore and Elspeth Tirel (all her abilities can greatly improve our match up against TS; life-gain, bringing more chump blockers on board and her ultimate).
2.) Dedicate cards in our sideboard that are very versatile not only against TS but other decks as well. Naturalize (3 of's) and Creeping Corrosion (2 max IMHO) can both hit TS and Pod decks.
How about you guys, how would you prepare against Tempered Steel?
Am thinking about sleeving up the below list for this weekend, very similar to Jacob' list, the only thing i'm not sure on is whether to keep the 2 Dismembers or not, tempted to put in another 2 Gideon' Lawkeeper so that I can hit on Lead the Stampede more and have a few more little drops to pump up Champion, let me know if you think it could have any improvements.
As for not having any finishers I find going this sort of route with something like Nevermore to handle DoJ to be superior to having a clear target drop, maybe it was just in my meta but with my WW Quest whenever I resolved my hero of bladehold/mirran crusader it was generally followed up with a Bolt/Tumble/GftT whereas if you have your threat spread out people tend to hold back a little bit more as they don't want to "waste" their removal on a 2/2 beater.
1 Mortarpod
Creatures
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Blade Splicer
2 Geist-Honored Monk
4 Hero of Bladehold
2 Llanowar Elves
3 Mentor of the Meek
Enchantments
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Naturalize
Legendary Creatures
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Mikaeus, the Lunarch
Planeswalkers
3 Elspeth Tirel
Sorceries
3 Overrun
Basic Lands
7 Forest
4 Plains
Lands
4 Gavony Township
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Sunpetal Grove
1 Mortarpod
1 Spellskite
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Stony Silence
2 Dismember
1 Naturalize
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Creeping Corrosion
4 Timely Reinforcements
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To continue from the last thread, and the question of why not to run Invisible Stalker: He truly isn't worth it. If you ran/sided in swords, I could see it, because a Stalker with a sword is a scary thing. Why would you run him when you could run things such as Grand Abolisher or Elite Inquisitor, who both imo have more upside in this meta? Also, with that list, you're also using Honor of the Pure to pump your creatures. Stalker doesn't get that benefit. I could see a build utilizing Stalker, but I don't think its U/W Aggro Humans.
Check out my blog, Swing For Game!
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Elite Vanguard
2 Gideon's Lawkeeper
4 Grand Abolisher
3 Hero of Bladehold
4 Mirran Crusader
Enchantments
4 Angelic Destiny
4 Honor of the Pure
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Dismember
Legendary Creatures
4 Geist of Saint Traft
Basic Lands
12 Plains
Lands
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Moorland Haunt
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Torpor Orb
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Dismember
3 Negate
3 Purify the Grave
1 Gideon Jura
3 Revoke Existence
Here is a U/W Humans deck, more typical of what I think they will look like, especially given how well this type of deck did this weekend.
Check out my blog, Swing For Game!
Also if we're in the Human tribe, why not Hamlet Captain? I saw some very explosive attacks with him at SCG Indy.
And I think it fits fine in here. I've never been one of the opinion that you absolutely must run a Lord for a deck to be considered tribal. After all, Zendikar vamps had no lord, and you don't get much more tribal than them.
What are peoples thoughts on Doomed Traveler? I'm running a list much like the above one, although it isn't running the Geist/Angelic Destiny package (still splashes U for Moorland Haunt and counters in sideboard). I've been mulling over the thought of dropping to two Gideon's Lawkeeper and making two other opening for them, since they give such great utility when combined with Moorland Haunt and Honor of the Pure.
Check out my blog, Swing For Game!
This is mainly for a different build with colors green and white. I agree with the deck you put up, but the discussion on that deck is on a different thread.
As far as Hamlet Captain, I think he's an excellent 2 drop here.
Is it really so different that GW tokens? Maybe GW aggro thread would work just fine for both...
Decks:
EDH: :symbw::symuw::symub:Merieke Ri Berit:symbw::symuw::symub:
Archenemy EDH: Reaper king
(")(")
GONZO
Genius, fast, and long eared.
3-4 Hamlet Captain
4 Mayor of Avabruck
2-4 Adaptive Automaton
The ability to basically run 8 Lords and 4 quasi-Lords shouldn't be overlooked.
Check out my blog, Swing For Game!
.. but it turns out that his high mana cost (2W) with the additional activation cost (1 per cantrip) isn't enough to warrant him in any aggro/midrange.. he's just too slow I found.
He also competes with Mirran Crusader, Oblivion Ring, and Blade Splicer. What's everyone's thought on Meek? He's been a dissapointment to me in testing I've done (he really gets insane draws, but I'm already "winning" before i start drawing the cards).
Personally, I love Blade Splicer, but don't see it having a home in Human decks. Mirran Crusader is head and shoulders above it, and Geist of Saint Traft and Fiend Hunter are close followers. If the token were Human or W, then it might be a difference, but as it stands I think Splicer is just awkward.
Check out my blog, Swing For Game!
I really like Elesh Norn, and the only way I see she becoming viable, is running green for some ramps.
On the deck itself, I really like what Mentor of the Meek brings to the table... it really allows you to overextend more than you usually could because you'll still have cards in your hand.
I am modifying a list right now(credit to Wizards.com's Jacob Van Lunen) and it runs like a beast with:
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Hamlet Captain
4x Mayor of Avabruck
3x Adaptive Automaton
Champion, great bang for your buck white 1drop. Add to the fact that both Adaptive Automaton and Mayor of Avabruck give it the +1/+1 from their lordliness, AND another since they are both humans when they enter the field. These 4 I would say are a core of a G/W build(creaturewise) as far as I have seen it.
Standard
WBGWBGABZAN AGGROWBGWBG
Check out my blog, Swing For Game!
And i think that this one is GW so you can differentiate between this and W/x aggro
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Maybe G/W Militia?
Standard
WBGWBGABZAN AGGROWBGWBG
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Maindeck
3x Grand Abolisher
4x Champion of the Parish
3x Mirran Crusader
2x Mentor of the Meek
4x Elite Inquisitor
3x Fiend Hunter
2x Kessig Cagebreakers
3x Hero of Bladehold
4x Mayor of Avabruck
4x Adaptive Automaton
4x Oblivion Ring
3x Elspeth Tirel
5x Forest
5x Plains
3x Gavony Township
4x Razorverge Thicket
4x Sunpetal Grove
I like The Village People for a name. Honor of the pure is in there purely for the fact that it hits most of the creatures, i could see it coming out but I don't know what for at this point though. The two of Angelic Destiny is just fantastic. It lets you fly over most of the stuff in standard and when you put it on Mirran Crusader.... Yeah.
60 cards
8 Forest
9 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
21 lands
3 Adaptive Automaton
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Elite Vanguard
2 Gideon's Lawkeeper
4 Hamlet Captain
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Mentor of the Meek
29 creatures
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Nevermore
3 Oblivion Ring
10 other spells
1 Adaptive Automaton
3 Creeping Corrosion
2 Dismember
4 Fiend Hunter
2 Gideon's Lawkeeper
1 Nevermore
2 Purify the Grave
15 sideboard cards
I'll post my build later in the week after I finish the last pieces.
I ordered a couple Elspeth as I never managed to land any or had a use for them before so those will go in after. The base list above just seemed too light with no finishers so aside from Elspeth and Hero of Bladehold I figured I'd try a couple Thraben Sentry as well. Those very well may get cut for the Elspeth when she arrives with the dozens of other m12 and innistrad I've ordered in the last couple weeks. Wife is going to flip her lid when all those envelopes show up. :-P
Agree on all account. Mentor of the meek looks good on paper but in actual testing it requires huge mana investment. If your running the list like in the OP where there are 10 mana dorks, he is playable but in a W/G deck which only uses Avacyn's Pilgrim as the only mana dork not worth it IMHO.
Lead the stampede is far more versatile as we can wait for an opportunity to cast it, preferably after a board wipe; so it does not compete with our curve as we want to cast those 1-3 cmc humans ASAP to pump up the Champion.
*************************
Based on SCG Indianapolis Standard results, W/G Human is currently being outclass by Tempered Steel. TS is far more faster (colored artifacts creatures with Phyrexian Mana) and have evasion (even though they have lost Ornithoper post rotation, they are now using Spined Thopter/Vault Skirge; an Etched Champion with an active metal craft is just a monster without a board wipe).
How do improve our match up against TS? Here are my thoughts:
2.) Dedicate cards in our sideboard that are very versatile not only against TS but other decks as well. Naturalize (3 of's) and Creeping Corrosion (2 max IMHO) can both hit TS and Pod decks.
How about you guys, how would you prepare against Tempered Steel?
Any thoughts here?
4 Elite Vanguard
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Hamlet Captain
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Mirran Crusader
3 Adaptive Automaton
2 Hero of Bladehold
3 Nevermore
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Lead the Stampede
Lands: 23
5 Forest
7 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Sun Petalgrove
3 Gavony Township
4 Dismember
3 Naturalize
2 Day of Judgement
3 Celestial Purge
3 Nihil Spellbomb
So the general Jist is play dudes as fast you can while using Nevermore to call out board sweepers like Day of Judgement, and Black Sun Zenith. Using Lead the Stampede To refill your hand. However I think I might switch Stampede with Creeping Renaissance in order to refill our hand full of threats, not once but twice! More testing will have to occur. I'd also like to try and fit Mikeaus, the Lunarch in here as well some were. Maybe Swap him for Hamlet Captain or Hero of Bladehold?
Edit: Also We do need a good name for this deck. G/W Tokens has Token Town, we need something good D:
Standard
WUW/U HumansUW
Modern
WBW/B TokensBW
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x champion of the parish
4x elite vanguard
3x gideon's lawkeeper
3x grand abolisher
4x hamlet captain
4x mayor of avabruck
3x mentor of the meek
2x Dismember
3x Gitaxian Probe
2x Nevermore
3x Oblivion Ring
Lands
6x forest
2x gavony township
6x plains
4x razorverge thicket
3x sunpetal grove
It's sorta budgetish and I have no idea of my local meta, so... whatever, lol
3 Adaptive Automaton
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Accorder Paladin
2 Gideon's Lawkeeper
4 Hamlet Captain
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Mirran Crusader
3 Lead the Stampede
2 Dismember
2 Nevermore
3 Oblivion Ring
Lands:
6 Forest
6 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Gavony Township
As for not having any finishers I find going this sort of route with something like Nevermore to handle DoJ to be superior to having a clear target drop, maybe it was just in my meta but with my WW Quest whenever I resolved my hero of bladehold/mirran crusader it was generally followed up with a Bolt/Tumble/GftT whereas if you have your threat spread out people tend to hold back a little bit more as they don't want to "waste" their removal on a 2/2 beater.
1v1
UB Sygg, River Cutthroat
Multiplayer
RR Rakka Mar
UR Tibor and Lumia