Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a mod of wealth and taste.
This is SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL mafia, inspired by the Rolling Stones song of that name. It might be a good idea to take a look at the lyrics, if you don't know them already.
Some would say that the devil's already in Rolling Stones music, but in this case it's especially so. The devil's taking over the devil's music, and it's the job of the townies to fight back.
The problem, as ever in mafia, is working out who works for the devil and who's merely part of a Rolling Stones song.
THE RULES
1. Do not discuss the game outside the thread.
2. No talking in PMs unless your role says you can.
3. NO EDITS. NO DELETED POSTS. (I bold this since some recent games have allowed quick editing). I personally don't care about double posts, but the board mods do so please try and avoid double-posting.
4. No quoting PMs from me in the thread, on pain of modkill. Paraphrasing is fine as long as you don't push it too far. And in case people try to be clever with PM paraphrasing, the town win condition is as follows: WIN CONDITION: Eliminate all non-town.
5. You can't vote for the mod, lynch the mod, kill the mod, etc so don't try.
6. Please bold votes and unvotes, or they will not be counted. You don't have to unvote before you vote for someone else, although it helps. Vote "No Lynch" is allowed.
7. Please put night choices (including no-choice choices) in as soon as possible to keep nights moving.
8. Please post at least once every 3 real days, and if you know in advance something will prevent this then please post in thread or let me know.
9. I would prefer not to deadline days. If a deadline is placed due to inactivity, and no majority is reached, there will be no lynch.
12. Xyre: Courtesy, townie, lynched day 1
2. feuerdrache: Tails, townie, killed night 1.
6. carrion pigeons: A Tank, vigilante, killed night 1.
4. twomz: Pilate, role-blocker, lynched day 2
3. aurorasparrow: Lord Kazzak, delayed Serial Killer, lynched day 3
7. Kops: Jesus Christ, doctor, killed night 3
9. absolutionis: St Petersburg, changer, lynched day 4
11. swinkee (replacing SorryGuy): Lucifer, godfather, lynched day 5
vote twomz for not random voting...
I looked at the lyrics, didn't see anything directly important ('cept maybe that it says "you can call me Lucifer", but I don't know if that will help)
IF that's true we might want to do a mass name claim, in order to clear several people. How many names do you have?
ALso, don't reveal that a person is town or not until everyone claims (if we do a mass claim) or until someone claims that name, and isn't counterclaimed.
Annorox, voting No Lynch actually means that you're voting for no one to be lynched. Even if you're not a fan of random voting, you still shouldn't support the death of nobody. That's patently against the town's agenda.
Quote from Absolutionis »
pseudoRandom Vote Aurorasparrow for mispelling pigeon...
Aww. That was going to be my reason for voting AS.
Quote from Twomz »
IF that's true we might want to do a mass name claim, in order to clear several people. How many names do you have?
ALso, don't reveal that a person is town or not until everyone claims (if we do a mass claim) or until someone claims that name, and isn't counterclaimed.
Finally... does everyone have a name?
First of all, he said 1(one) name. Second of all, he should reveal it. If anyone hasn't read the whole argument about this on Star Trek Mafia, they ought to. In addition to everything said there, putting a bullseye on a person is not going to be any worse than having the mafia fire randomly, assuming that roles are assigned randomly. (I am assuming the name is a player name, not a role name?) Lastly, why would people not have names? Or do you mean like, identifiers? I'd be astonished if everyone had a "name," but it's pretty much beyond belief to think that anyone doesn't have an "identifier." Strange fishing?
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
hey i won it for the town, now didnt i? how is this scummy? fos sorryguy for trying to lynch very helpful pro-town players (now i could understand if you were upset about day 1... but day 2? come on)
Vote: Kops for trying to unconciously make people think he's protown for no reason.
CP, if it was a playername, i doubt he would have said what he said. It's more likely a rolename. If it is a playername, it'll probably be more like Hawkeye and Einsteinmonkey of Siefeld mafia, where the person he has an innocent on, has an innocent on him as well. But in a 12 player game, i doubt that.
Vote: Kops for trying to unconciously make people think he's protown for no reason.
First off, i think you meant subconsciously... unconsciously means i was in a coma while typing
Secondly: was that a joke vote or not, i couldn't tell
Lastly: looking back at my post, i see you are correct, I believe what I meant to say was that I was pro-town in that game, and he's trying to lynch me for having previously been a very helpful townie (again, I'm talking only day 2 of that game, not day 1)
Quote from Twomz »
CP, if it was a playername, i doubt he would have said what he said. It's more likely a rolename. If it is a playername, it'll probably be more like Hawkeye and Einsteinmonkey of Siefeld mafia, where the person he has an innocent on, has an innocent on him as well. But in a 12 player game, i doubt that.
As to that, I believe it would be best to ask clarification from HC, because this raises a good point. I'm guessing rolename, though b/c otherwise that would pretty much make him mason and he would have kept quiet.
It is a role name, not a playername. It is one name. I know their alignment. I will not speak any further on it unless the town reaches a consensus for me to reveal it or if that person claims.
Unvote, Pseudo-Random Vote Twomz because after specifying in my post that it was "a name", he immediately tried to start a mass name-claim. I don't like that. Not enough to place a real vote on, but I guess it's better than random.
EBWODP:
Wait, that would put him at three votes. Missed Carrion Pigeons' vote.
Unvote, FOS Twomz cause I don't want to put anybody at three votes in a 12 player game.
I think this name thing is worth talking about.. at least it gets the town in a conversation rather than just random voting and finger-pointing.
1) can someone link around the page in star trek mafia where discussion of this situation begins? or does it begin immediately?
2) Charlie could simply state the role name and leave it at that. Then, when the time is right, whoever holds that role can step forward and be immediately cleared.
3) Charlie could always be lying. He could simply be a mafia with knowledge of a town role, or some sort of evil inspector.
4) Clearing 2 townies (charlie and the other) in a 12-person game is pretty powerful. Especially if theres also an inspector.
We don't know if there is a cop. And just so everyone knows, i'm always proclaim. The town has never lost in a game where we massed claimed in games i've been in. I'm also prolurkerlynch, and pro get the day over sooner rather than later. I've always been like that, and it usually gets me lynched, so i'm just letting everyone know ahead of time this game.
There is always the possibility that Charlie is a SK who needs to kill player X in order to win. This is, of course, pure speculation. Especially since we don't know how many NKs there are.
Twomz: when I first started playing, I would have agreed with you. I saw a number of games where mass claiming was highly effective and I believed it to be a general rule. Experience has taught me otherwise, just as it has taught me that lurkerlynches are generally a bad idea, and that days should generally last as long as they need to to get all relevant information possible in the air.
The thing you need to do is examine what you know about the setup before you start making rash decidions. Right now, we have no reason to start looking to end the day, we have plenty to talk about and thus no reason to hassle lurkers, and most of all, we definitely have no basis to justify a mass claim. Do you think that it's just possible that maybe your strategy gets you lynched because its mindless, and leads people to being exploited?
Once you have a reason to follow your strategy, it will be worth discussing. In the meantime, I'm happy to focus on you as a lynch target.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Wait, why would it clear me and the name? I mean, the only way I could see that happening is if I was cleared (by death or inspection) so thus the name was cleared. It doesn't really clear me, because I could be a scum just naming somebody else.
Question: How common are safe-claims. They appear to be in ROTK mafia, but they wouldn't be in a mini, right?
@Twomz-- I agree that ridiculously long days are unlikable and boring, but they're necessary for us to make the right decision. Unlike CP, I think focusing on you as a lynch target is a bad idea. If you don't like the day, just try to find the real scum faster, get the information we need. Shortcuts like Mass-Claims and Lurker-Lynches won't help us catch the scum like real discussion. Just stick it out.
1) can someone link around the page in star trek mafia where discussion of this situation begins? or does it begin immediately?
It starts (non-mod) post 2
@HC: 1) do you have any information past rolename? (i.e. ability)
2) does this person know you are town?
3) are you 100% sure this person is town?
personally, IMO we should reveal. It provides information to the town which we always need, and I don't think it will hurt us too much by telling the mafia not to false-claim it (i can personally think of more than enough false-claims that telling them one shouldn't hurt us). Apart from that, in Star Trek Mafia, Puzzle, FadeBlue, and Azrael all agreed that revealing was the correct choice, and we all know that these guys are at the top...
Between my thoughts, and the fact that all 3 of those guys said claim, I say go for it. (definately answer the questions first b4 revealing the name, there's a possibility I'll change my mind)
I'll still hold off until there is consensus in this game, but until then the answers to your questions:
1) No information past rolename and alignment.
2) There is nothing in my PM about them knowing I am town, it is possible considering the relationship that they have a line similar to mine revealing my role as town. I don't know.
3) I am 100% sure, unless the mod is lying.
There is always the possibility that Charlie is a SK who needs to kill player X in order to win. This is, of course, pure speculation. Especially since we don't know how many NKs there are.
How often do you see another killing player (besides the Mafia) in a mini game? You're talking about a potential for three kills between a day and a night, which gives a huge advantage to the Mafia (ie SK killing townies).
Oops, youre right. You wouldnt be cleared. Whoever you name will be, however, assuming both of you aren't mafia (which would be the most amazing bluff I've ever seen).
True safeclaims are usually flavor-based rather than role-based, because the character in question HAS to be around and HAS to be good. Not really getting the flavor of this game, I don't see any obviously clear names. Add that to HC already clearing somebody and it seems pretty unlikely.
Ignoring the imba of an SK in a 12-person game:
1) If the SK has to be the sole survivor, their "target" would be dead anyways.
2) If the SK has to make the kill personally, a random lynch or mafia kill might ruin their win condition.
So I don't think HC is an SK. -_-
Should we start keeping a tally of who is for or against claiming? I am for it.
Still waiting for
2. feuerdrache
8. CF (crippled fist)
Oops, youre right. You wouldnt be cleared. Whoever you name will be, however, assuming both of you aren't mafia (which would be the most amazing bluff I've ever seen).
True safeclaims are usually flavor-based rather than role-based, because the character in question HAS to be around and HAS to be good. Not really getting the flavor of this game, I don't see any obviously clear names. Add that to HC already clearing somebody and it seems pretty unlikely.
Ignoring the imba of an SK in a 12-person game:
1) If the SK has to be the sole survivor, their "target" would be dead anyways.
2) If the SK has to make the kill personally, a random lynch or mafia kill might ruin their win condition.
So I don't think HC is an SK. -_-
Should we start keeping a tally of who is for or against claiming? I am for it.
Still waiting for
2. feuerdrache
8. CF (crippled fist)
to post.
'K. No for mass-claim, based on experience (and a feeling that RafaelK did the right thing and distorted some name-role relationships).
I'm here and ready to commence playing. I'm going to check out the lyrics so I might possibly acquire some info about whether or not a mass-claim would be good.
Mainly just checking in, though.
And the only problem I have with Charlie revealing his info is that it doesn't clear anybody and presents another role for the mafia to false-claim. I say, wait until someone is about to be lynched, then get them to name-claim and if Charlie can reaffirm them then all the better for the town, mayhaps.
If we can confirm Charlie we'd definitely be in a good position because then we could confirm another townie if need be.
If we can confirm Charlie we'd definitely be in a good position because then we could confirm another townie if need be.
It works the other way around as well... If there is a confirmed townie and Hunted Charlie could successfully name it that would allow us to confirm him as such...
The one thing that worries me slightly is HC's willingness to reveal such info and the early revelation as such. It might have some alterior meaning in the form of a T+J relationship.
Likely not...
I'm all up for waiting on the revealing of the name for the greater part of today.
T+J relationships would be an odd thing to put in a mini. There's not generally a whole lot of room for error in a mini, and so it would be quite unusual to see the mod putting character with major ulterior motives in the game.
Feuerdrache: if at all possible, we would dearly love the mafia to falseclaim a role we know is in the game. That allows us to trade, at worst, 1 for 1 with the mafia, which is ideal. I'm almost inclined to switch my vote, but I'm not sure how well you really understand what you're suggesting there. In any case, that is a reason for the revelation, not against it.
Let's all try to come up with reasons why HC should not reveal the name:
1) It makes falseclaims slightly easier for the mafia. Admittedly, this is not the Star Trek universe, but there's still nothing like a finite number of rolenames there could be. I don't think this is a serious issue.
2) HC could be lying for one reason or another, but still townie. If for example, HC is in a T+J situation, he ought to admit it, and not tell us the name. Odds are great that whatever character he needs to kill will die anyway, and if they don't, he needs to find a way to deal with it that isn't destructive to the town's goals.
I can't really think of any other reasons off the top of my head. If he's mafia, he should definitely reveal the name, so that when one of them dies, he's associated himself strongly with more people. Any other thoughts on the subject? I really don't see a reasonable argument for not revealing the name.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Sorry I haven't been posting, but I had school, then dinner at my grandmother's. Anyway, I am, like most, against a mass claim...
And I would also like to know what a T+J relationship is.
Tom and Jerry. One player has to die in order for the other to win (could be townie has to kill townie, mafia has to kill townie... townie has to kill mafia is kind of pointless...). It's usually reciprical if i remember correctly, but i could be wrong.
anyways, I really don't see any reason for Charlie NOT to reveal the role name. The mafia gains almost nothing, and if Charlie doesn't reveal he'll be nightkilled and lose information.
If Charlie is mafia, there isn't that much he can do to manipulate us with this information. if he dies we'll immediately distrust his information, and if he's trying to semi-clear a mafia buddy he's putting both of them in tremendous danger.
anyways, I really don't see any reason for Charlie NOT to reveal the role name. The mafia gains almost nothing, and if Charlie doesn't reveal he'll be nightkilled and lose information.
I have to say that revealing a confirmed name in the game would give the mafia a safe name claim under pressure and would cause more complications.
However, what you said makes sense. HC should reveal right now or risk getting nightkilled and dying with the info.
One more idea would be that whoever is the role that HC reveals should step up. Note that this would not only eliminate the possibility of a mafia using that name as a safeclaim, but would force the person to step up right now. If two people step up, we bagged our first mafia already.
On another note, I'm not familiar with minis, how many mafias are there? I'm assuming three?
I don't agree.
HC should reveal, but the person should not step up (until necessary anyway). I reckon there's a decent chance that the person is a power role, and we don't want to force a power role out day 1... anyway, why on earth would a scum lie about something like that? they have no reason to and it will hurt them much more than us.
First off, I'd like to confirm that I am not in a Tom and Jerry relationship. I don't think anybody in one would necessarily reveal it, but I may as well tell y'all that I'm not.
@Xyre: How has Kops tried to seem townie in a scummy way? I feel like I missed something.
I believe that there is a consensus at this point, but I'd prefer for there to be a final time for objection so I won't reveal until either late tonight or tomorrow morning. At that point, unless there is a big outcry, I'll give the name.
EBWODP:
Also, am I supposed to be giving my name with the name I'm confirming? It would make a lot more sense why I have their name if I give mine, so unless it is a bad idea I'll give my name with it.
@Xyre: How has Kops tried to seem townie in a scummy way? I feel like I missed something.
I think you mean annorax, and i think he's referring to post #18, although i don't really know what he's talking about either
as for your name, my opinion is reveal only the other name first, then we can discuss, and if necessary you can claim yours, but don't do it at the same time... we don't want to give the mafia too many examples of town-names (not to mention revealing yours is warning them not to try to false-claim it)
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
This is SYMPATHY FOR THE DEVIL mafia, inspired by the Rolling Stones song of that name. It might be a good idea to take a look at the lyrics, if you don't know them already.
Some would say that the devil's already in Rolling Stones music, but in this case it's especially so. The devil's taking over the devil's music, and it's the job of the townies to fight back.
The problem, as ever in mafia, is working out who works for the devil and who's merely part of a Rolling Stones song.
THE RULES
1. Do not discuss the game outside the thread.
2. No talking in PMs unless your role says you can.
3. NO EDITS. NO DELETED POSTS. (I bold this since some recent games have allowed quick editing). I personally don't care about double posts, but the board mods do so please try and avoid double-posting.
4. No quoting PMs from me in the thread, on pain of modkill. Paraphrasing is fine as long as you don't push it too far. And in case people try to be clever with PM paraphrasing, the town win condition is as follows: WIN CONDITION: Eliminate all non-town.
5. You can't vote for the mod, lynch the mod, kill the mod, etc so don't try.
6. Please bold votes and unvotes, or they will not be counted. You don't have to unvote before you vote for someone else, although it helps. Vote "No Lynch" is allowed.
7. Please put night choices (including no-choice choices) in as soon as possible to keep nights moving.
8. Please post at least once every 3 real days, and if you know in advance something will prevent this then please post in thread or let me know.
9. I would prefer not to deadline days. If a deadline is placed due to inactivity, and no majority is reached, there will be no lynch.
10. HAVE FUN! Or I'll lay your souls to waste.
1. Cyan (replacing Annorax)
7. tuatha
8. CF
10. Hunted Charlie
SOULS LAID WASTE
12. Xyre: Courtesy, townie, lynched day 1
2. feuerdrache: Tails, townie, killed night 1.
6. carrion pigeons: A Tank, vigilante, killed night 1.
4. twomz: Pilate, role-blocker, lynched day 2
3. aurorasparrow: Lord Kazzak, delayed Serial Killer, lynched day 3
7. Kops: Jesus Christ, doctor, killed night 3
9. absolutionis: St Petersburg, changer, lynched day 4
11. swinkee (replacing SorryGuy): Lucifer, godfather, lynched day 5
Role PMs have all gone out.
We begin with DAY 1.
I have just been reading "The Lost Years of Merlin" and I recognize your name.
Twomz's Trading thread
vote carrion pidgeons for now while I download the song and lyrics so I can make sense of this game.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
I looked at the lyrics, didn't see anything directly important ('cept maybe that it says "you can call me Lucifer", but I don't know if that will help)
I have information similar to Azrael's in Star Trek Mafia; I know a certain role is in the game and that they are town.
I didn't read much of STM, so I don't know what they decided there, but who thinks I should reveal it now and who thinks I should wait?
Save it for now... reveal it when the time becomes important...
ALso, don't reveal that a person is town or not until everyone claims (if we do a mass claim) or until someone claims that name, and isn't counterclaimed.
Finally... does everyone have a name?
Twomz's Trading thread
Vote: No Lynch because I'm not a fan of random voting, and I just don't have enough information to make a reasonable vote yet.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
I would say hold onto it for the right occasion, but note youve given the mafia reason to kill you tonight.
So what you should ask yourself (dont tell us) is: how obvious is it that this role is townie?
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Aww. That was going to be my reason for voting AS.
First of all, he said 1(one) name. Second of all, he should reveal it. If anyone hasn't read the whole argument about this on Star Trek Mafia, they ought to. In addition to everything said there, putting a bullseye on a person is not going to be any worse than having the mafia fire randomly, assuming that roles are assigned randomly. (I am assuming the name is a player name, not a role name?) Lastly, why would people not have names? Or do you mean like, identifiers? I'd be astonished if everyone had a "name," but it's pretty much beyond belief to think that anyone doesn't have an "identifier." Strange fishing?
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
But everybody's doing it!
Yeah, Annorax, No Lynch means no lynch for the day, not "I don't want to vote".
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
fos sorryguy for trying to lynch very helpful pro-town players (now i could understand if you were upset about day 1... but day 2? come on)
p.s. newb 6 for those wondering
CP, if it was a playername, i doubt he would have said what he said. It's more likely a rolename. If it is a playername, it'll probably be more like Hawkeye and Einsteinmonkey of Siefeld mafia, where the person he has an innocent on, has an innocent on him as well. But in a 12 player game, i doubt that.
Twomz's Trading thread
First off, i think you meant subconsciously... unconsciously means i was in a coma while typing
Secondly: was that a joke vote or not, i couldn't tell
Lastly: looking back at my post, i see you are correct, I believe what I meant to say was that I was pro-town in that game, and he's trying to lynch me for having previously been a very helpful townie (again, I'm talking only day 2 of that game, not day 1)
As to that, I believe it would be best to ask clarification from HC, because this raises a good point. I'm guessing rolename, though b/c otherwise that would pretty much make him mason and he would have kept quiet.
They're pretty much the same thing on day one when all the voting is pretty much random anyway.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
It is a role name, not a playername. It is one name. I know their alignment. I will not speak any further on it unless the town reaches a consensus for me to reveal it or if that person claims.
Unvote, Pseudo-Random Vote Twomz because after specifying in my post that it was "a name", he immediately tried to start a mass name-claim. I don't like that. Not enough to place a real vote on, but I guess it's better than random.
EBWODP:
Wait, that would put him at three votes. Missed Carrion Pigeons' vote.
Unvote, FOS Twomz cause I don't want to put anybody at three votes in a 12 player game.
1) can someone link around the page in star trek mafia where discussion of this situation begins? or does it begin immediately?
2) Charlie could simply state the role name and leave it at that. Then, when the time is right, whoever holds that role can step forward and be immediately cleared.
3) Charlie could always be lying. He could simply be a mafia with knowledge of a town role, or some sort of evil inspector.
4) Clearing 2 townies (charlie and the other) in a 12-person game is pretty powerful. Especially if theres also an inspector.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
There is always the possibility that Charlie is a SK who needs to kill player X in order to win. This is, of course, pure speculation. Especially since we don't know how many NKs there are.
Twomz's Trading thread
The thing you need to do is examine what you know about the setup before you start making rash decidions. Right now, we have no reason to start looking to end the day, we have plenty to talk about and thus no reason to hassle lurkers, and most of all, we definitely have no basis to justify a mass claim. Do you think that it's just possible that maybe your strategy gets you lynched because its mindless, and leads people to being exploited?
Once you have a reason to follow your strategy, it will be worth discussing. In the meantime, I'm happy to focus on you as a lynch target.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
Question: How common are safe-claims. They appear to be in ROTK mafia, but they wouldn't be in a mini, right?
@Twomz-- I agree that ridiculously long days are unlikable and boring, but they're necessary for us to make the right decision. Unlike CP, I think focusing on you as a lynch target is a bad idea. If you don't like the day, just try to find the real scum faster, get the information we need. Shortcuts like Mass-Claims and Lurker-Lynches won't help us catch the scum like real discussion. Just stick it out.
It starts (non-mod) post 2
@HC: 1) do you have any information past rolename? (i.e. ability)
2) does this person know you are town?
3) are you 100% sure this person is town?
personally, IMO we should reveal. It provides information to the town which we always need, and I don't think it will hurt us too much by telling the mafia not to false-claim it (i can personally think of more than enough false-claims that telling them one shouldn't hurt us). Apart from that, in Star Trek Mafia, Puzzle, FadeBlue, and Azrael all agreed that revealing was the correct choice, and we all know that these guys are at the top...
Between my thoughts, and the fact that all 3 of those guys said claim, I say go for it. (definately answer the questions first b4 revealing the name, there's a possibility I'll change my mind)
1) No information past rolename and alignment.
2) There is nothing in my PM about them knowing I am town, it is possible considering the relationship that they have a line similar to mine revealing my role as town. I don't know.
3) I am 100% sure, unless the mod is lying.
How often do you see another killing player (besides the Mafia) in a mini game? You're talking about a potential for three kills between a day and a night, which gives a huge advantage to the Mafia (ie SK killing townies).
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
True safeclaims are usually flavor-based rather than role-based, because the character in question HAS to be around and HAS to be good. Not really getting the flavor of this game, I don't see any obviously clear names. Add that to HC already clearing somebody and it seems pretty unlikely.
Ignoring the imba of an SK in a 12-person game:
1) If the SK has to be the sole survivor, their "target" would be dead anyways.
2) If the SK has to make the kill personally, a random lynch or mafia kill might ruin their win condition.
So I don't think HC is an SK. -_-
Should we start keeping a tally of who is for or against claiming? I am for it.
Still waiting for
2. feuerdrache
8. CF (crippled fist)
to post.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
'K. No for mass-claim, based on experience (and a feeling that RafaelK did the right thing and distorted some name-role relationships).
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Mainly just checking in, though.
And the only problem I have with Charlie revealing his info is that it doesn't clear anybody and presents another role for the mafia to false-claim. I say, wait until someone is about to be lynched, then get them to name-claim and if Charlie can reaffirm them then all the better for the town, mayhaps.
If we can confirm Charlie we'd definitely be in a good position because then we could confirm another townie if need be.
It works the other way around as well... If there is a confirmed townie and Hunted Charlie could successfully name it that would allow us to confirm him as such...
The one thing that worries me slightly is HC's willingness to reveal such info and the early revelation as such. It might have some alterior meaning in the form of a T+J relationship.
Likely not...
I'm all up for waiting on the revealing of the name for the greater part of today.
Feuerdrache: if at all possible, we would dearly love the mafia to falseclaim a role we know is in the game. That allows us to trade, at worst, 1 for 1 with the mafia, which is ideal. I'm almost inclined to switch my vote, but I'm not sure how well you really understand what you're suggesting there. In any case, that is a reason for the revelation, not against it.
Let's all try to come up with reasons why HC should not reveal the name:
1) It makes falseclaims slightly easier for the mafia. Admittedly, this is not the Star Trek universe, but there's still nothing like a finite number of rolenames there could be. I don't think this is a serious issue.
2) HC could be lying for one reason or another, but still townie. If for example, HC is in a T+J situation, he ought to admit it, and not tell us the name. Odds are great that whatever character he needs to kill will die anyway, and if they don't, he needs to find a way to deal with it that isn't destructive to the town's goals.
I can't really think of any other reasons off the top of my head. If he's mafia, he should definitely reveal the name, so that when one of them dies, he's associated himself strongly with more people. Any other thoughts on the subject? I really don't see a reasonable argument for not revealing the name.
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And I would also like to know what a T+J relationship is.
Twomz's Trading thread
At any rate I am all for the claim. It is always good for the town and all the vets know it. No reason to not do it.
anyways, I really don't see any reason for Charlie NOT to reveal the role name. The mafia gains almost nothing, and if Charlie doesn't reveal he'll be nightkilled and lose information.
If Charlie is mafia, there isn't that much he can do to manipulate us with this information. if he dies we'll immediately distrust his information, and if he's trying to semi-clear a mafia buddy he's putting both of them in tremendous danger.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
You know what? Screw that.
Unvote. Vote Kops.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
I have to say that revealing a confirmed name in the game would give the mafia a safe name claim under pressure and would cause more complications.
However, what you said makes sense. HC should reveal right now or risk getting nightkilled and dying with the info.
One more idea would be that whoever is the role that HC reveals should step up. Note that this would not only eliminate the possibility of a mafia using that name as a safeclaim, but would force the person to step up right now. If two people step up, we bagged our first mafia already.
On another note, I'm not familiar with minis, how many mafias are there? I'm assuming three?
HC should reveal, but the person should not step up (until necessary anyway). I reckon there's a decent chance that the person is a power role, and we don't want to force a power role out day 1... anyway, why on earth would a scum lie about something like that? they have no reason to and it will hurt them much more than us.
@Xyre: How has Kops tried to seem townie in a scummy way? I feel like I missed something.
I believe that there is a consensus at this point, but I'd prefer for there to be a final time for objection so I won't reveal until either late tonight or tomorrow morning. At that point, unless there is a big outcry, I'll give the name.
EBWODP:
Also, am I supposed to be giving my name with the name I'm confirming? It would make a lot more sense why I have their name if I give mine, so unless it is a bad idea I'll give my name with it.
I think you mean annorax, and i think he's referring to post #18, although i don't really know what he's talking about either
as for your name, my opinion is reveal only the other name first, then we can discuss, and if necessary you can claim yours, but don't do it at the same time... we don't want to give the mafia too many examples of town-names (not to mention revealing yours is warning them not to try to false-claim it)
I was really hoping you weren't going to say that.
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Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
I'll take Kops suggestion for now, and only reveal the name but not mine, unless it is absolutely necessary.
The czar.
I think it was a pretty obvious name to be in here, actually, but here it is in all its beauty.
I'll give my name only if the town thinks I need to.