Hey there. I've created this deck with a fellow SCAD student. Although it started as a joke, the deck really has evolved into a highly tweekable meta deck. But now that the deck has won 3 tournaments, I thought I'd throw it up here to spread the idea of the deck, sorta put my name on it, and get some new fresh life into the deck. Without further adios:
Legion of Doom
Sworn Enemies The Super Friends
Table of Contents
1. Ideals of the deck
2. Deck building
A. The Core
B. The Fill
C. The Mana
D. The Side
E. The Other Choices
3. Playing
A. General Playing Notes
B. Match Ups
I. RDW
II. U/B control
III. Solar flare
IV. Burning vengeance
V. Wolf run Ramp (Green/Red)
VI. Wolf Run Red (Monoish Green)
VII. Tokens
IIX. Humans
IX. Infect
X. Tier 2/Rogue Decks
4. Changes/Wins
5. Sample Deck Lists
Ideals of the deck:
In order of importance:
1. Slam down planeswalkers and problem creatures to put constant pressure on opponent.
2. Use removal, discard, deck neutering cards to handicap opponent.
3. Grind the game away if opponent is handicapped and still alive.
How you do this should differ greatly from place to place, even week to week. I like to think this deck as a strong core, packed around other deck's kyrotnite. The goal in deck building to take the core and fill the rest in with support for you, hate for others.
Deck Building:
The Core
This is the part that shouldn't change. This bit is hard tested, the numbers haven't wavered. The core is the secret CA Engine of the deck. Since it's running more planeswalkers (since their enemy Super Friends were a team and before Jace wanted to rename the team "Jace and Friends") even if one sticks it can turn a game. They are often "Spells in hand" allowing you to double/triple your moves a turn.
Liliana is removal/fog. Shes a must deal with threat after your hand is empty or she will super time walk your opponent. She's not that overtly amazing, but she does a lot of jobs we need, and people are scared of her so they will over commit to killing her.
Chandra is deceivingly good. In a format where all important creatures have toughness of 1 other than heroes and titans, Chandra rules. She can double removal spells, and poke a control player to death (It works...)
Garruk hits the board before his big brother. That can through ramp off its game alone. He makes chump blockers (and attackers if the role calls for it) and kills creatures. His flip side has a finisher I've used for trample only... but its his +1 and -1 one is the abilities you want to look out for. Getting you're self a one/two of can be back breaking for your opponent. Tapping a bird, sacing it, throwing a wurm out is a strong play indeed.
Sorin is a one of. He acts like a titan in this deck, checks life totals, and helps removal. He can slaves some minds, but you never want him early game, or more than 1.
Karn is another one of. Like Sorin you don't want to see him early or in more than one, but can break open games. I wouldn't suggest his finisher... as it restarts the game, but hey, if you need to win, go for it.
The beautiful thing about this core is it delivers the first part of our ideals, constant pressure into the Catch 22. It ups our plays, causes people to do things they don't want to do, and waste resources to deal with us. Against aggro, burn and attacks will go to walkers, not our face. Against control, we null over half their deck. Against ramp we use the free time to rally a force they can't deal with.
The Fill
This is where you have freedom. Depending on your meta it will differ greatly. There is a good mix of everything except tokens where I live in Savannah GA. As such I've prepared how to win against Ramp, RDW, Humans, Infect, UB control and solarflare. Don't be afraid to experiment, but do go about it logically.
Here's the reasoning
Creatures (12)
2 Wurmcoil Engine -Ends aggro matchups, and people like to kill finishers. He splits instead of dies, and that's pretty nice.
4 Birds of Paradise Turn 2 Lil, turn 2 sword, turn 3 Garruk/Chandra/Olivia/Thrun is really good. It smooths out your mana too. Bird is actually pivotal important in this deck.
2 Spellskite- Protects your walkers, and hurts ramp. Spellskite can throw wrenches in a lot of decks. It's an early blocker, and sucks up burn. Pretty good stuff.
2 Olivia Voldaren- Mind control when needed removal always. She kills inkmoths, and tons of aggro creatures. Flying gives her an up too, as her sudden shift in power can swing freely. I also hear titans like being on the legion of doom more than their owners decks.
2 Thrun, the Last Troll- Curb stomps control, is best case a beater against thrun/road bump, or at worst "Kill target thrun" spell. He's deadly with swords.
3 Despise- Rips trouble walkers from hands, kills snapcasters, removes bombs and hex proof creatures. Most importantly it gives you a peek at the hand, and information with this type of deck is important, as it allows you to focus your attack.
2 Sword of Feast and Famine- Swords put pressure on your opponents. Protections that's relevant, and game breaking effects will cause your opponent to have to deal with it or die.
1 Sword of War and Peace- see above
2 Doom Blade- Removal is as removal does.
2 Red Sun's Zenith- Burn the opponent out, deals with weenies, exiles instead of kills.
1 Go for the Throat- Removal is as removal does.
2 Tezzeret's Gambit- Profilfs your dudes and gives you 2-4 cards.
The Mana
You need a fair share of lands to function, and the mana base is really greedy. You want to use the Scars lands over the core lands because you want to go early game rather than late game with the lands.
Lands (25)
7 Swamp
6 Forest
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
The Side
Welcome to the wonderful world of siding. This bit I will cover choices, rather than stables. Again you're siding to cover yourself and hurt others, do that based on your meta.
Ancient Grudge- Kills inkmoths, swords, wurms, ect. Really good right now.
Life's Finale- Board wipe and nabs bombs. Huge against control.
Beast Within- hits things your other removal doesn't. Kills o rings, shrines, and walkers
Spellskite- Wall against aggro and takes orings like a boss
Autumn's Veil- Normally I wouldn't avicate this, but dropping a walker in the control matchup will strongly throw the game in your favor.
Surgical Extraction- good against graveyard stuff
Thrun, the Last Troll- more hurt for control
Nihil Spell Bomb- More grave yard hate
Victim of Night- odd removal
Dismember- See above
Memorside- Nutter decks
Ratchet bomb- For tokens
This deck takes a lot of thought and a lot of playing differently for each match up. That's a ton of the fun of this deck. For example you use Liliana as removal against ramp, road block against control, and discard against aggro. Below is guide lines, not rules, but they are somethings that me and Loki have found that works.
Matchups
To Be Added... I got tired.
I. RDW
II. U/B control
III. Solar flare
IV. Burning vengeance
V. Wolf run Ramp (Green/Red)
VI. Wolf Run Red (Monoish Green)
VII. Tokens
IIX. Humans
IX. Infect
X. Tier 2/Rogue Decks
This is a general things the deck would like, or weaknesses we feel could be covered by future cards.
Sorin! We need one cheaper, with a more reliant - ablity
Sifa. She's evil, she's a planeswalker, were currently reviewing her resume...
This list seems pretty cool, and it seems pretty solid. I would change some of your numbers though. I don't know what Sorin really does for you. Liliana kills creatures/discard, Garruk builds your board, Chandra does random stuff, Karn deals with threats, Sorin...kind of kills stuff. Since you're running Garruk, I would prefer a titan in that spot, so that you have a tutorable threat. I would probably go with Inferno Titan or Grave Titan. Grave Titan is a faster clock, but Inferno titan + planeswalkers clears the field quick and you can pump inferno titan for big beats.
The rest of these numbers are off your sample list:
I would probably put your PW count at 2-3x Liliana (I agree with 3), 2x Chandra, 2-3x Garruk (you have swords, so I would go with 3), and 1x Karn. I've played with Chandra (playing with her now) and I never want her as more than a 2-of. She's great when you can do awesome stuff with her, but it's always sad when she just sits there doing nothing. Garruk is quite good as both removal and token creater. The problem with running a ton of planeswalkers in this list is that Chandra and Garruk aren't very synergistic. Chandra likes spells, Garruk likes creatures. I think you did a good job setting it up, but I think Garruk does more of what you need.
I would probably put all three Spellskite in the sideboard, unless your meta is filled with RDW or something of that variant. I would probably move the Beast Within into that slot. I also think that this deck could use some Virridian Emissary, not for the ramp, but for the speed bump + value.
I've played with Olivia Voldaren; I love Olivia. She gives you another reason to cut a Chandra, since they fill similar roles. Wurmcoil Engine is a great choice for a finisher; I would still put in a titan in place of Sorin, but 2x Wurmcoil seems good.
I would consider sideboarding or cutting the Sword of War and Peace. You are already making them discard and so it won't get as much value most of the time. In addition, three swords in a deck without a ton of creatures (other than the tokens off of Garruk) is probably a bad idea.
You probably need some type of sweeper in the deck. I would go with Slagstorm, but your other options are BSZ or Life's Finale.
Last point is on your mana base. I'm not sure if it will work very well. I'm running a Grixis list and my mana base is:
. This should allow you to consistently go turn 1 BoP/Despise and still not have lands come into play tapped until late in the game.
Good Luck.
Edit: @dudebro: Chandra is really good right now as removal. There are a ton of 1 toughness creatures right now. I think what he was saying was that with all the repeatable removal, not many decks can answer as many threats, which I can kind-of believe. I do agree about the swords, but that's why I think he needs to up his count on Garruk.
After witnessing this deck first hand I also have to agree this deck is legit and has been fine tuned to wreck. It does well in all of the current MU in the meta... unfortunately. =P
This is off topic, but as I began reading this thread, Redneck Stomp by Obituary came on my Pandora. Listen to it while you read this and tell me it isn't epic. Now to finish reading this.
EDIT: I am an advocate of having 2 Karns. He is good enough for sure. Other than that, we will see. I built a super friends deck, got hosed by aggro. I am curious if the Legion of Doom fairs any better. Aggro is your enemy.
I think Junk Superfriends might work better, no? I mean what is red really doing for you here..? RSZ is nice but you only have 10 cards in your deck that can be copied with Chandra.. I feel like Gideon or Elspeth would do the deck more justice. Also, Sorin can be really useful actually. I would run him as a singleton, if I was building this. I might try a junk version like this just for fun..see how it works.
This list seems pretty cool, and it seems pretty solid. I would change some of your numbers though. I don't know what Sorin really does for you. Liliana kills creatures/discard, Garruk builds your board, Chandra does random stuff, Karn deals with threats, Sorin...kind of kills stuff. Since you're running Garruk, I would prefer a titan in that spot, so that you have a tutorable threat. I would probably go with Inferno Titan or Grave Titan. Grave Titan is a faster clock, but Inferno titan + planeswalkers clears the field quick and you can pump inferno titan for big beats.
The rest of these numbers are off your sample list:
I would probably put your PW count at 2-3x Liliana (I agree with 3), 2x Chandra, 2-3x Garruk (you have swords, so I would go with 3), and 1x Karn. I've played with Chandra (playing with her now) and I never want her as more than a 2-of. She's great when you can do awesome stuff with her, but it's always sad when she just sits there doing nothing. Garruk is quite good as both removal and token creater. The problem with running a ton of planeswalkers in this list is that Chandra and Garruk aren't very synergistic. Chandra likes spells, Garruk likes creatures. I think you did a good job setting it up, but I think Garruk does more of what you need.
I would probably put all three Spellskite in the sideboard, unless your meta is filled with RDW or something of that variant. I would probably move the Beast Within into that slot. I also think that this deck could use some Virridian Emissary, not for the ramp, but for the speed bump + value.
I've played with Olivia Voldaren; I love Olivia. She gives you another reason to cut a Chandra, since they fill similar roles. Wurmcoil Engine is a great choice for a finisher; I would still put in a titan in place of Sorin, but 2x Wurmcoil seems good.
I would consider sideboarding or cutting the Sword of War and Peace. You are already making them discard and so it won't get as much value most of the time. In addition, three swords in a deck without a ton of creatures (other than the tokens off of Garruk) is probably a bad idea.
You probably need some type of sweeper in the deck. I would go with Slagstorm, but your other options are BSZ or Life's Finale.
Last point is on your mana base. I'm not sure if it will work very well. I'm running a Grixis list and my mana base is:
. This should allow you to consistently go turn 1 BoP/Despise and still not have lands come into play tapped until late in the game.
Good Luck.
Edit: @dudebro: Chandra is really good right now as removal. There are a ton of 1 toughness creatures right now. I think what he was saying was that with all the repeatable removal, not many decks can answer as many threats, which I can kind-of believe. I do agree about the swords, but that's why I think he needs to up his count on Garruk.
I agree on the sorin. Im thinking another Garruk in its spot. Honestly Im not worried about getting off Garruk's finisher, because Ive never seen him live long enough. But he busts open some games. I could put another titan in there but I really do want to keep the walker count high
After witnessing this deck first hand I also have to agree this deck is legit and has been fine tuned to wreck. It does well in all of the current MU in the meta... unfortunately. =P
Mr Tim! Id like to know who you are Glad to see Im you're first post, welcome to MTG salvation
This is off topic, but as I began reading this thread, Redneck Stomp by Obituary came on my Pandora. Listen to it while you read this and tell me it isn't epic. Now to finish reading this.
EDIT: I am an advocate of having 2 Karns. He is good enough for sure. Other than that, we will see. I built a super friends deck, got hosed by aggro. I am curious if the Legion of Doom fairs any better. Aggro is your enemy.
Thats epic. This deck smashes aggro. Its the only match up I sort of auto poliot. the trick is to land lili or sword. if you get the lili discard til she dies.
I think Junk Superfriends might work better, no? I mean what is red really doing for you here..? RSZ is nice but you only have 10 cards in your deck that can be copied with Chandra.. I feel like Gideon or Elspeth would do the deck more justice. Also, Sorin can be really useful actually. I would run him as a singleton, if I was building this. I might try a junk version like this just for fun..see how it works.
I've thought about white. It addes a lot of power to the deck, but its aggro game gets worse. (weird since gideon is there) it stalls out and sputters a bit. I might try it again, since the second go I gave it I ran r/w/b legion of morally confused people. wraith was good, gideon was good, o ring and elspeth were good, but it made the curve higher, put me at risk sooner.
The second is guaranteed as a T1 deck that is really good, plus its' mana is better. I would choose #2. However, Eminem is correct, comes down to preference. Eminem was not correct, however, for tying Rihanna to the bed and setting the house on fire.
Wow. This deck amazes me. I think I'll be playing this during this season, so watch out! Lol
So this still amazes me. *INSERT BLOWN MIND*
Yup, and Black Cherry Kuldotha. I think I'll play those.
So, what about some Slagstorm.
I think to reliably get it off youd have to up the red count. I'm using red for 7 cards, all of which are single red not double, so honestly its pretty much a splash. Also it kills your birds, which actually reallllyyysucks
Yeah I feel that BSZ or DOJ would both work better than Slagstorm, unless you happen to have Chandra out of course..
@kidlantern - I see what you mean about being more vulnerable to aggro. I played a couple test games and it definitely has trouble with RDW. I think I might still try the junk version, but apply the following changes:
-4 Birds of Paradise
+2 Viridian Emissary
+2 Spellskite
and use 3x DOJ in my sideboard, this way I can swap out the Beast Within, which is near useless against aggro, and bring in the Days..
I've never lost a game when i forked a life's finale.
@Funeral of Gods Honestly I just found getting started at 5 mana was just slow, especially with a 3 mana split. Garruk and chandra are splash able, making them work easily.
Whether this is Craig or Andrew, get your butt to O house tomorrow so we can play!
~Steve
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1. Good Decks Play With Good Cards
2. Good Decks Have Good Plans
3. Good Decks Have Good Mana Bases
4. Good Decks Respect Their Opponents
5. Good Decks Have 75 Cards
6. Sometimes Even Good Decks Are Bad Choices
7. Sometimes Your 'Good Deck' Isn't
Chandra and Garruk don't really do much against aggro either though.. Yeah sure Garruk makes a blocker and Chandra can ping something.. I agree that Gideon might be too slow for the deck, but I still white is a more viable color than red because it gives us Blade Splicer, Oblivion Ring, Sun Titan, and Unburial Rites.
I'm liking the more I play.. The Rampant Growth helps me get up to the bigger walkers faster, and Sun Titan / Unburial Rites helps me come back late game against control.
I feel Garruk has done quite a bit against aggro tbh. The fight ability has removed a bloodline keeper more than once and the wolf can consistently get in the way of other things until they can be handled.
Regardless, the loss of red, and the swords---I'm having a hard time imagining it performing better. I've forked "something" in nearly every game i've had chandra out. Against aggro, double doomblade works great. Against control or solar flare, double Life's Finale removes every threat in the deck considering the low bomb count. And a doubled tezz's gambit--drawing 4 cards with her loyalty remaining the same seems good anytime. I haven't had the chance to play with red sun zenith yet, as it was recommended by a player 2 weeks back, but i can't see a forked blaze being bad either whether its split between a critter and a player...or all to a player's face.
I love the thought of having o-ring..since it is a catch-all. However adding more creatures, such as blade splicer, while removing the swords seems counter-intuitive? Playing birds, followed by a quick sword, to turn around and equip the bird turn 3 is one of the best plays we've been able to make against control and wolf run.
Losing red, also means losing olivia which i don't think i can support. Everyone still favors doom blade which she walks around, she serves as minor removal, and gets big so quickly. I found myself using her to poke my thrun just to get counters at times when the opponent's board is clear. Also, she serves as insurance against inkmoths at instant speed. Finally, her take control of ability is surprisingly relevant. I've snagged sun titans against solar flare, and grimgrin against saturday-night-slime.
Replacing Sorin however does sound quite reasonable. He turned a bad game against vampires around once for me...was at 3 life, the opponent at 20...ended up swinging that game around and winning with a forked doom blade and Sorin's drain + life gain. However, I often found myself with him in hand against control wishing it was something more relevant.
I played this at FNM, but had a few mana issues. If they kill the birds right away the deck gets much slower and alot worse, however, I do believe the deck has some place to go. Its very good at alot of things, but it appears to lack focus.
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"It's like some kind of Voltron... made of elephants??"
Im diffently less impressed with chandra after my last Fmn... And Oliva. She worked, but the threats really were never cheap enough. I've got a few changes, I'll show them off next Sunday so I don't reveal anything too reliant.
But a few notes:
Garruk is awesome in almost every matchup.
Swords are still great.
Red Sun Zenith is awesome.
Sever the bloodline is pretty nice as a catch all as a one of in the side
Karn rapes.
Despise is really reliant.
I am having a few issues with WRR. I personally added 2 Volt Charges and took out a SoWaP, and am debating fitting in another Volt Charge, but it makes most of my removal sorcery speed, which can be pretty bad.
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"It's like some kind of Voltron... made of elephants??"
This deck I made has been doing great in testing the gauntlet. Its hard to ride the train to valuetown against these creatures and the PW/s are tough to kill save for O-Ring and Beast
I have started running Viridian Emissary in my list as well, hoping it will help smooth out my mana. The games I lose with this deck are usually mana flood or mana skrew, and hopefully this will help. That, or maybe I just dont have the necessary answers.
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"It's like some kind of Voltron... made of elephants??"
Jund, while it reared its head in Modern this past week (winning the MODO Championship at worlds,) seems to be lost on standard. The strange part is this is happening while its colors have the two most powerful planeswalkers and some of the most powerful creature in the format.
I started of with a Jund list that was directly influenced by Chapin's Grixis list from worlds. Through trial and error and testing it has developed into the Jund Superfriends list here:
A quick note on the manabase: The single Grotto and been, at time, a single Kessig Wolf Run which is undoubtedly a more powerful, albeit less consistent option. With no way to find it other then drawing it naturally is does not effect as many games as I would have likes, so currently I'm running Grotto.
A quick note on the creatures: This deck started with x3/4 Daybreak Ranger which, while awesome in some matchups (G/W and against Inkmoth Nexus) is a liability against control or matchups like Wolf Run where an opponents major threats are titans. He became x4Birds of Paradise but since there are less green sources then r/b being the explosive turn 1 play I wanted happened less then I would have liked. Finally the Ranger's slot was filled with additional removal spells and planeswalkers.
Some quick notes on spells: The instants have stayed consistent for the life of the deck, with the only changes being with the second doom blade becoming a second GFTT or Dismember as needed. Beast Within, I believe, is extremely well positioned in the meta- it kill's enchantments at instant speed, which is one of this decks biggest advantaged over a Grixis list for instance. It can also take out troubling lands in Wolf Run, or punish a Solar Flare players extravagant manabase, not to mention taking down titans and swords in response to equip. The downside of a 3/3 beast is negligible with the full set of incinerates as well as the three Slagstorms. Tezzeret's Gambit is awesome with planeswalkers, and especially devastating with Chandra's -2 ability.
These are the centerpiece of the deck, Garruk and Liliana can win games on their own; Garruk by pumping out a steady stream of tokens, until flipping when he can tutor for a Titan or Olivia every other turn. Liliana keeps troublesome creatures like {\Thrun, the Last Troll and Geist of Saint Traft in check and your opponents hand empty.
Chandra usually will not win a game on her own, but combining her Fork ability with cards like Slagstorm and Tezzeret's Gambit wins game, allowing one to wipe out titans and then other to ultimate Liliana while drawing 4. Her pinging ability is also relevant in a format filled with birds, nobles, champions and tokens.
So far the only truly bad (although not un-winnable) matchup is against dedicated control (which has been less and less of a presience in recent weeks) because of their counterspells and card advantage. In a matchup such as U/B you should win if you can sneek a garruk or even chandra past their counters, because the have no real way of dealing with a resolved planeswalker. It makes up for it weak matchup against control by beating up on creature bases stratagies, Inkmoth bases stratagies, and anything without counters that can't deal easly with planeswalkers.
Here's a quick rundown of my current SB and then i'll shut up and listen to you guys.
Anyways, give me some thoughs or opinions. And one last question: How important do you think it is, in a deck like this, to have some sort of exceleration to allow for turn 2/3 planeswalkers? (Something like BoP or Sphere of the Suns
Legion of Doom
Sworn Enemies The Super Friends
1. Ideals of the deck
2. Deck building
3. Playing
4. Changes/Wins
5. Sample Deck Lists
Ideals of the deck:
In order of importance:
1. Slam down planeswalkers and problem creatures to put constant pressure on opponent.
2. Use removal, discard, deck neutering cards to handicap opponent.
3. Grind the game away if opponent is handicapped and still alive.
How you do this should differ greatly from place to place, even week to week. I like to think this deck as a strong core, packed around other deck's kyrotnite. The goal in deck building to take the core and fill the rest in with support for you, hate for others.
Deck Building:
The Core
This is the part that shouldn't change. This bit is hard tested, the numbers haven't wavered. The core is the secret CA Engine of the deck. Since it's running more planeswalkers (since their enemy Super Friends were a team and before Jace wanted to rename the team "Jace and Friends") even if one sticks it can turn a game. They are often "Spells in hand" allowing you to double/triple your moves a turn.
3 Chandra, the Fire Brand
2 Garruk, the Veil-cursed
1 Sorin Markov
1 Karn Liberated
Liliana is removal/fog. Shes a must deal with threat after your hand is empty or she will super time walk your opponent. She's not that overtly amazing, but she does a lot of jobs we need, and people are scared of her so they will over commit to killing her.
Chandra is deceivingly good. In a format where all important creatures have toughness of 1 other than heroes and titans, Chandra rules. She can double removal spells, and poke a control player to death (It works...)
Garruk hits the board before his big brother. That can through ramp off its game alone. He makes chump blockers (and attackers if the role calls for it) and kills creatures. His flip side has a finisher I've used for trample only... but its his +1 and -1 one is the abilities you want to look out for. Getting you're self a one/two of can be back breaking for your opponent. Tapping a bird, sacing it, throwing a wurm out is a strong play indeed.
Sorin is a one of. He acts like a titan in this deck, checks life totals, and helps removal. He can slaves some minds, but you never want him early game, or more than 1.
Karn is another one of. Like Sorin you don't want to see him early or in more than one, but can break open games. I wouldn't suggest his finisher... as it restarts the game, but hey, if you need to win, go for it.
The beautiful thing about this core is it delivers the first part of our ideals, constant pressure into the Catch 22. It ups our plays, causes people to do things they don't want to do, and waste resources to deal with us. Against aggro, burn and attacks will go to walkers, not our face. Against control, we null over half their deck. Against ramp we use the free time to rally a force they can't deal with.
The Fill
This is where you have freedom. Depending on your meta it will differ greatly. There is a good mix of everything except tokens where I live in Savannah GA. As such I've prepared how to win against Ramp, RDW, Humans, Infect, UB control and solarflare. Don't be afraid to experiment, but do go about it logically.
This is where I stand currently
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Spellskite
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Despise
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Doom Blade
2 Red Sun's Zenith
1 Go for the Throat
2 Tezzeret's Gambit
Here's the reasoning
Creatures (12)
2 Wurmcoil Engine -Ends aggro matchups, and people like to kill finishers. He splits instead of dies, and that's pretty nice.
4 Birds of Paradise Turn 2 Lil, turn 2 sword, turn 3 Garruk/Chandra/Olivia/Thrun is really good. It smooths out your mana too. Bird is actually pivotal important in this deck.
2 Spellskite- Protects your walkers, and hurts ramp. Spellskite can throw wrenches in a lot of decks. It's an early blocker, and sucks up burn. Pretty good stuff.
2 Olivia Voldaren- Mind control when needed removal always. She kills inkmoths, and tons of aggro creatures. Flying gives her an up too, as her sudden shift in power can swing freely. I also hear titans like being on the legion of doom more than their owners decks.
2 Thrun, the Last Troll- Curb stomps control, is best case a beater against thrun/road bump, or at worst "Kill target thrun" spell. He's deadly with swords.
3 Despise- Rips trouble walkers from hands, kills snapcasters, removes bombs and hex proof creatures. Most importantly it gives you a peek at the hand, and information with this type of deck is important, as it allows you to focus your attack.
2 Sword of Feast and Famine- Swords put pressure on your opponents. Protections that's relevant, and game breaking effects will cause your opponent to have to deal with it or die.
1 Sword of War and Peace- see above
2 Doom Blade- Removal is as removal does.
2 Red Sun's Zenith- Burn the opponent out, deals with weenies, exiles instead of kills.
1 Go for the Throat- Removal is as removal does.
2 Tezzeret's Gambit- Profilfs your dudes and gives you 2-4 cards.
You need a fair share of lands to function, and the mana base is really greedy. You want to use the Scars lands over the core lands because you want to go early game rather than late game with the lands.
Lands (25)
7 Swamp
6 Forest
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
The Side
Welcome to the wonderful world of siding. This bit I will cover choices, rather than stables. Again you're siding to cover yourself and hurt others, do that based on your meta.
Ancient Grudge- Kills inkmoths, swords, wurms, ect. Really good right now.
Life's Finale- Board wipe and nabs bombs. Huge against control.
Beast Within- hits things your other removal doesn't. Kills o rings, shrines, and walkers
Spellskite- Wall against aggro and takes orings like a boss
Autumn's Veil- Normally I wouldn't avicate this, but dropping a walker in the control matchup will strongly throw the game in your favor.
Surgical Extraction- good against graveyard stuff
Thrun, the Last Troll- more hurt for control
Nihil Spell Bomb- More grave yard hate
Victim of Night- odd removal
Dismember- See above
Memorside- Nutter decks
Ratchet bomb- For tokens
Other Choices
Gritaxian probe- Peek with draw
Glissa the traitor- Moat/brings back skites, wurms, bombs
Victim of Night- odd removal
Dismember- See above
Playing
General Playing Notes
This deck takes a lot of thought and a lot of playing differently for each match up. That's a ton of the fun of this deck. For example you use Liliana as removal against ramp, road block against control, and discard against aggro. Below is guide lines, not rules, but they are somethings that me and Loki have found that works.
Matchups
I. RDW
II. U/B control
III. Solar flare
IV. Burning vengeance
V. Wolf run Ramp (Green/Red)
VI. Wolf Run Red (Monoish Green)
VII. Tokens
IIX. Humans
IX. Infect
X. Tier 2/Rogue Decks
10/29/11 1st Place- Game Day- Lantern
10/29/11 6th Place- Game Day- Lantern
10/22/11 3rd Place- FMN- Loki
10/15/11 2nd Place- FMN - Loki
Sample Deck Lists
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Chandra, the Firebrand
2 Garruk Relentless
1 Sorin Markov
1 Karn Liberated
Creatures (12)
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Spellskite
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
Spells (13)
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Doom Blade
2 Tezzeret's Gambit
2 Red Sun's Zenith
3 Despise
1 Go for the Throat
7 Swamp
6 Forest
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Life's Finale
2 Beast Within
1 Spellskite
3 Autumn's Veil
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Wish List
This is a general things the deck would like, or weaknesses we feel could be covered by future cards.
Sorin! We need one cheaper, with a more reliant - ablity
Sifa. She's evil, she's a planeswalker, were currently reviewing her resume...
And as much as i hate to say it, it works... Very well.
Massive removal for all types of threats across the board and consistent removal, he out removes solar flare at times, its menacing...
Standard
URBGrixis ControlBRU
Modern
URPyromancers AscensionRU
RIP
BRZendikar VampiresRB
I guess the garruk and chandra count as very narrow removal but I'm not seeing how you can "out removal" solar flare
do the swords really add enough with your low creature count?
The rest of these numbers are off your sample list:
I would probably put your PW count at 2-3x Liliana (I agree with 3), 2x Chandra, 2-3x Garruk (you have swords, so I would go with 3), and 1x Karn. I've played with Chandra (playing with her now) and I never want her as more than a 2-of. She's great when you can do awesome stuff with her, but it's always sad when she just sits there doing nothing. Garruk is quite good as both removal and token creater. The problem with running a ton of planeswalkers in this list is that Chandra and Garruk aren't very synergistic. Chandra likes spells, Garruk likes creatures. I think you did a good job setting it up, but I think Garruk does more of what you need.
I would probably put all three Spellskite in the sideboard, unless your meta is filled with RDW or something of that variant. I would probably move the Beast Within into that slot. I also think that this deck could use some Virridian Emissary, not for the ramp, but for the speed bump + value.
I've played with Olivia Voldaren; I love Olivia. She gives you another reason to cut a Chandra, since they fill similar roles. Wurmcoil Engine is a great choice for a finisher; I would still put in a titan in place of Sorin, but 2x Wurmcoil seems good.
I would consider sideboarding or cutting the Sword of War and Peace. You are already making them discard and so it won't get as much value most of the time. In addition, three swords in a deck without a ton of creatures (other than the tokens off of Garruk) is probably a bad idea.
You probably need some type of sweeper in the deck. I would go with Slagstorm, but your other options are BSZ or Life's Finale.
Last point is on your mana base. I'm not sure if it will work very well. I'm running a Grixis list and my mana base is:
Good Luck.
Edit: @dudebro: Chandra is really good right now as removal. There are a ton of 1 toughness creatures right now. I think what he was saying was that with all the repeatable removal, not many decks can answer as many threats, which I can kind-of believe. I do agree about the swords, but that's why I think he needs to up his count on Garruk.
Totally agree with this, having played a very similar deck and having found Sorin to be useless.
WRGBCombo MillWRGB
???
Modern:
UUWWErayo AffinityWWUU
WWGUEnchantress ControlUGWW
EDH:
GGBBGlissa MultiplayerBBGG
RRRRKazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Land DestructionRRRR
I live in Savannah too. We should play. =O
Nice primer.
EDIT: I am an advocate of having 2 Karns. He is good enough for sure. Other than that, we will see. I built a super friends deck, got hosed by aggro. I am curious if the Legion of Doom fairs any better. Aggro is your enemy.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Viridian Emissary
2 Spellskite
3 Blade Splicer
1 Sun Titan
1 Grave Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Planeswalkers:
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Garruk Relentless
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Sorin Markov
1 Karn Liberated
3 Oblivion Ring
Instants:
3 Beast Within
Sorceries:
4 Rampant Growth
1 Unburial Rites
Lands:
4 Razorverge Thicket
3 Woodland Cemetery
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Sunpetal Grove
1 Gavony Township
6 Forest
4 Swamp
2 Plains
Draft My Cube!
Thanks man.
Really its just extra pressure, allowing my few dudes to be just as threatening if not more, than my walkers.
I agree on the sorin. Im thinking another Garruk in its spot. Honestly Im not worried about getting off Garruk's finisher, because Ive never seen him live long enough. But he busts open some games. I could put another titan in there but I really do want to keep the walker count high
Glad to see some agreeance. i have to test out some other options
Mr Tim! Id like to know who you are Glad to see Im you're first post, welcome to MTG salvation
Thanks worked hard on it (In class not doing other work). Where/who are you? message me we can
Thats epic. This deck smashes aggro. Its the only match up I sort of auto poliot. the trick is to land lili or sword. if you get the lili discard til she dies.
I've thought about white. It addes a lot of power to the deck, but its aggro game gets worse. (weird since gideon is there) it stalls out and sputters a bit. I might try it again, since the second go I gave it I ran r/w/b legion of morally confused people. wraith was good, gideon was good, o ring and elspeth were good, but it made the curve higher, put me at risk sooner.
Thanks for all the views/ Advice guys!
I worded it wrong, it is just the perfect song for talking about the Legion of Doom.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
So this still amazes me. *INSERT BLOWN MIND*
Yup, and Black Cherry Kuldotha. I think I'll play those.
So, what about some Slagstorm.
Sig by Miraculous Recovery Signatures, avvie by Hakai Studios. Thanks!
Stanard:
WR Grenadier
WW White Grenadier WW
Legacy:
BG 1EverythingGB
Casual:
R AllOutAggro R (49-3)
I think to reliably get it off youd have to up the red count. I'm using red for 7 cards, all of which are single red not double, so honestly its pretty much a splash. Also it kills your birds, which actually reallllyyysucks
@kidlantern - I see what you mean about being more vulnerable to aggro. I played a couple test games and it definitely has trouble with RDW. I think I might still try the junk version, but apply the following changes:
-4 Birds of Paradise
+2 Viridian Emissary
+2 Spellskite
and use 3x DOJ in my sideboard, this way I can swap out the Beast Within, which is near useless against aggro, and bring in the Days..
Draft My Cube!
@Funeral of Gods Honestly I just found getting started at 5 mana was just slow, especially with a 3 mana split. Garruk and chandra are splash able, making them work easily.
~Steve
2. Good Decks Have Good Plans
3. Good Decks Have Good Mana Bases
4. Good Decks Respect Their Opponents
5. Good Decks Have 75 Cards
6. Sometimes Even Good Decks Are Bad Choices
7. Sometimes Your 'Good Deck' Isn't
~Metamorph
my revised "Junkies" list:
4 Viridian Emissary
4 Spellskite
4 Blade Splicer
2 Sun Titan
1 Grave Titan
Planeswalkers:
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Garruk Relentless
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Karn Liberated
3 Oblivion Ring
Instants:
3 Beast Within
Sorceries:
4 Rampant Growth
1 Unburial Rites
Lands:
4 Razorverge Thicket
3 Isolated Chapel
3 Woodland Cemetery
1 Gavony Township
6 Forest
4 Plains
3 Swamp
3 Day of Judgment
3 Celestial Purge
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Surgical Extraction
3 Mayor of Avabruck
I'm liking the more I play.. The Rampant Growth helps me get up to the bigger walkers faster, and Sun Titan / Unburial Rites helps me come back late game against control.
Draft My Cube!
Regardless, the loss of red, and the swords---I'm having a hard time imagining it performing better. I've forked "something" in nearly every game i've had chandra out. Against aggro, double doomblade works great. Against control or solar flare, double Life's Finale removes every threat in the deck considering the low bomb count. And a doubled tezz's gambit--drawing 4 cards with her loyalty remaining the same seems good anytime. I haven't had the chance to play with red sun zenith yet, as it was recommended by a player 2 weeks back, but i can't see a forked blaze being bad either whether its split between a critter and a player...or all to a player's face.
I love the thought of having o-ring..since it is a catch-all. However adding more creatures, such as blade splicer, while removing the swords seems counter-intuitive? Playing birds, followed by a quick sword, to turn around and equip the bird turn 3 is one of the best plays we've been able to make against control and wolf run.
Losing red, also means losing olivia which i don't think i can support. Everyone still favors doom blade which she walks around, she serves as minor removal, and gets big so quickly. I found myself using her to poke my thrun just to get counters at times when the opponent's board is clear. Also, she serves as insurance against inkmoths at instant speed. Finally, her take control of ability is surprisingly relevant. I've snagged sun titans against solar flare, and grimgrin against saturday-night-slime.
Replacing Sorin however does sound quite reasonable. He turned a bad game against vampires around once for me...was at 3 life, the opponent at 20...ended up swinging that game around and winning with a forked doom blade and Sorin's drain + life gain. However, I often found myself with him in hand against control wishing it was something more relevant.
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
But a few notes:
Garruk is awesome in almost every matchup.
Swords are still great.
Red Sun Zenith is awesome.
Sever the bloodline is pretty nice as a catch all as a one of in the side
Karn rapes.
Despise is really reliant.
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Viridian Emissary
3 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Solemn Simulacrum
Spells
2 Doom Blade
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
1 Day of Judgment
1 Black Sun's Zenith
3 Beast Within
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Gideon Jura
1 Elspeth Tirel
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Lands
8 Forest
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Isolated Chapel
3 Swamp
4 Plains
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Sunpetal Grove
This deck I made has been doing great in testing the gauntlet. Its hard to ride the train to valuetown against these creatures and the PW/s are tough to kill save for O-Ring and Beast
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
I started of with a Jund list that was directly influenced by Chapin's Grixis list from worlds. Through trial and error and testing it has developed into the Jund Superfriends list here:
1 Forest
4 Woodland Cemetary
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Swamp[c/]
4 Mountain
1 Shimmering Grotto
A quick note on the manabase: The single Grotto and been, at time, a single Kessig Wolf Run which is undoubtedly a more powerful, albeit less consistent option. With no way to find it other then drawing it naturally is does not effect as many games as I would have likes, so currently I'm running Grotto.
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Inferno Titan
3 Olivia Voldaren
A quick note on the creatures: This deck started with x3/4 Daybreak Ranger which, while awesome in some matchups (G/W and against Inkmoth Nexus) is a liability against control or matchups like Wolf Run where an opponents major threats are titans. He became x4Birds of Paradise but since there are less green sources then r/b being the explosive turn 1 play I wanted happened less then I would have liked. Finally the Ranger's slot was filled with additional removal spells and planeswalkers.
2 Doom Blade
3 Beast Within
4 Incinerate
1 Go For The Throat
1 Dismember
1 Devil's Play
3 Slagstorm
3 Tezzeret's Gambit
Some quick notes on spells: The instants have stayed consistent for the life of the deck, with the only changes being with the second doom blade becoming a second GFTT or Dismember as needed. Beast Within, I believe, is extremely well positioned in the meta- it kill's enchantments at instant speed, which is one of this decks biggest advantaged over a Grixis list for instance. It can also take out troubling lands in Wolf Run, or punish a Solar Flare players extravagant manabase, not to mention taking down titans and swords in response to equip. The downside of a 3/3 beast is negligible with the full set of incinerates as well as the three Slagstorms. Tezzeret's Gambit is awesome with planeswalkers, and especially devastating with Chandra's -2 ability.
4x Garruk Relentless
3x Liliana of the Veil
3x Chandra, the Firebrand
These are the centerpiece of the deck, Garruk and Liliana can win games on their own; Garruk by pumping out a steady stream of tokens, until flipping when he can tutor for a Titan or Olivia every other turn. Liliana keeps troublesome creatures like {\Thrun, the Last Troll and Geist of Saint Traft in check and your opponents hand empty.
Chandra usually will not win a game on her own, but combining her Fork ability with cards like Slagstorm and Tezzeret's Gambit wins game, allowing one to wipe out titans and then other to ultimate Liliana while drawing 4. Her pinging ability is also relevant in a format filled with birds, nobles, champions and tokens.
So far the only truly bad (although not un-winnable) matchup is against dedicated control (which has been less and less of a presience in recent weeks) because of their counterspells and card advantage. In a matchup such as U/B you should win if you can sneek a garruk or even chandra past their counters, because the have no real way of dealing with a resolved planeswalker. It makes up for it weak matchup against control by beating up on creature bases stratagies, Inkmoth bases stratagies, and anything without counters that can't deal easly with planeswalkers.
Here's a quick rundown of my current SB and then i'll shut up and listen to you guys.
1 Go For The Throat
1 Dismember
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blasphemous Act
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Tribute to Hunger
2 Memoricide
2 Curse of Death's Hold
Anyways, give me some thoughs or opinions. And one last question: How important do you think it is, in a deck like this, to have some sort of exceleration to allow for turn 2/3 planeswalkers? (Something like BoP or Sphere of the Suns
Thanks