I have a need... a disease .... and the only cure is moar Plow Under.
I always loved this card back in the day. Having been out for a few years then in, then out again, I didn't actually realize until last week that it was in 8th edition and thus legal in Modern.
Ever since then, I have been unable to shake the need to play this card. There is a Modern tourney this Saturday and I MUST find the right deck to run this in.
Is it some sort of Monogreen control, going Mana Dork -> Cultivate/Kodama's Reach -> Plow Under -> Dungrove Elder -> Bring the pain....
Is it some sort of Bant tempo rape with Bant Charm, Remand leading into the Plow then taking over?
Is it the Rock? Do I finally get to sleeve up the Thoughtsiezes I picked up back in July before they shot up but still have yet to put in a deck? Or does a lack of Dorans close that door to me?
Is there some other secret Plow Under deck out there I haven't thought of? I must run it!!!
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
I have a need... a disease .... and the only cure is moar Plow Under.
I always loved this card back in the day. Having been out for a few years then in, then out again, I didn't actually realize until last week that it was in 8th edition and thus legal in Modern.
Ever since then, I have been unable to shake the need to play this card. There is a Modern tourney this Saturday and I MUST find the right deck to run this in.
Is it some sort of Monogreen control, going Mana Dork -> Cultivate/Kodama's Reach -> Plow Under -> Dungrove Elder -> Bring the pain....
Is it some sort of Bant tempo rape with Bant Charm, Remand leading into the Plow then taking over?
Is it the Rock? Do I finally get to sleeve up the Thoughtsiezes I picked up back in July before they shot up but still have yet to put in a deck? Or does a lack of Dorans close that door to me?
Is there some other secret Plow Under deck out there I haven't thought of? I must run it!!!
The problem is that it's 5 mana. Zoo will just laugh at you and play a land during their turn all while beating you into a pulp. Affinity is also largely unaffected by it because of their low mana curve. It might slow twin down a bit although they can counter it or just win before your little road bump even matters.
Mana denial is a bad strategy when the format is so full of aggressive decks.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
The problem is that it's 5 mana. Zoo will just laugh at you and play a land during their turn all while beating you into a pulp. Affinity is also largely unaffected by it because of their low mana curve. It might slow twin down a bit although they can counter it or just win before your little road bump even matters.
It might work in some kind of modified Death Cloud deck.
Slipknot is back with the Zoo argument lol.
Hey I mentioned every tier 1 deck. Every deck in this format is aggressive even splinter-twin has an aggro speed to it. I could drop to tier 2 doran and jund. It might slow them down except they run a crap ton of discard so more than likely it probably won't be happening here either.
This format is just too fast for durdle cards.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Hey I mentioned every tier 1 deck. Every deck in this format is aggressive even splinter-twin has an aggro speed to it. I could drop to tier 2 doran and jund. It might slow them down except they run a crap ton of discard so more than likely it probably won't be happening here either.
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
Primal Command might support your strategy, as additional plows. Eternal Witness is the classic friend of Plow Under. Witness is also good with Maelstrom Pulse. You'll probably need to splash black for removal anyways.
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If God spoke to you, and commanded you to kill your own children, would you do it?
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
do you plan on destroying lands with other spells? How do you stop twin, zoo, or affinity. Mana denial is too slow in this format. We have had probably 20 different threads for it over the last few months and every one of them has came to that same conclusion.
Plow under was seeing play in 12post for the mirror before they banned cloudpost.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
As much as I love plow under, land destruction is just awful when you're getting thrashed by goyfs and nacatls. You might as well say "Well that's cool that you're attacking me for 8 next turn with burn in hand, but instead of playing removal, I'm just going to blow up that temple garden instead. Yeah... that'll do the trick."
Plow Under was the best card you could possibly board in for the 12post match as it just wrecked them, especially if you had access to acceleration, but it's awful against aggro.
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if you want to go all LD you might try wild fire. For one more mana it might sweep their board and it will leave them without lands usually. you need some artifact acceleration though.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Okay, first of all, Plow Under is NOT a land destruction spell. That's probably why you're dismissing it out of hand. It's a tempo card. It sets your opponent's land drops back two turns AND prevents them from drawing answers. A land destruction strategy would remove the targets. When I start plowing, it is to lockdown. Here is one set of plays that could work:
I don't really see any line of play with Plow that is about land destruction. It's about stealing the late game from opponents. You get a late game, they don't. And if you can recur the effect, their game is effectively over.
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
Okay, first of all, Plow Under is NOT a land destruction spell. That's probably why you're dismissing it out of hand. It's a tempo card. It sets your opponent's land drops back two turns AND prevents them from drawing answers. A land destruction strategy would remove the targets. When I start plowing, it is to lockdown. Here is one set of plays that could work:
I don't really see any line of play with Plow that is about land destruction. It's about stealing the late game from opponents. You get a late game, they don't. And if you can recur the effect, their game is effectively over.
In the bottom example you can only have 4 mana in your pool when you cast plow under.
I do understand the card and the uses, but turn 4-5 affecting your opponents tempo is not good enough. If it said 4-5 lands then maybe but all your going to do is force your opponent to top deck lands for 2 turns while your getting beat down by tarmogoyf or tons of pestermite tokens.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
In the bottom example you can only have 4 mana in your pool when you cast plow under.
I do understand the card and the uses, but turn 4-5 affecting your opponents tempo is not good enough. If it said 4-5 lands then maybe but all your going to do is force your opponent to top deck lands for 2 turns while your getting beat down by tarmogoyf or tons of pestermite tokens.
Um... three lands (3), Wall of Roots (1), Elves of Deep Shadow (1); 3+1+1=5 where I play. Unless it's been errated...:rolleyes:
Seriously though, you're too quick to dismiss cards. Why even come into a thread like this anyway? If your answer to "how would you do X" is "I wouldn't" you're pretty much just threadcrapping.
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
Um... three lands (3), Wall of Roots (1), Elves of Deep Shadow (1); 3+1+1=5 where I play. Unless it's been errated...:rolleyes:
Seriously though, you're too quick to dismiss cards. Why even come into a thread like this anyway? If your answer to "how would you do X" is "I wouldn't" you're pretty much just threadcrapping.
how do you play both wall of roots and elves of deep shadow on turn 2 when you cast a discard spell on turn 1?
as for the "threadcrapping" sorry I was giving an opinion that has been kicked around here for months. It it was my own I would have told you that I wasn't really sure, but I was just trying to save you an entry fee for a bad tournament where you come to the same conclusion that every thread with plow under in it has came to.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
For 5 mana you really want something that wins you the game
Plow Under does not really do that.
In theory it doesnt win you the game, in practice it does.
The fact that your opponent will not draw a tarmo/burn (assuming he plays zoo) for the next two turn will greatly help you stabilize + get ride of his board. (see Ashinto's examples)
And you can get it back with a eternal witness to repeat the process.
how do you play both wall of roots and elves of deep shadow on turn 2 when you cast a discard spell on turn 1?
T1: swamp/overgrown tomb, cast thoughtsieze/IOK.
T2: forest (or any land if T1 was the tomb), wall of roots. Remove 1 counter from wall, drop Elves of Deep Shadow.
T3: any land, plow under
7 out of 9 cards on the play, out of 10 on the draw; sketchy, but not impossible given 3 of them are lands that are fairly interchangeable.
I was thinking of Plow Under in a Mythic Bant Shell. Probably casting it from the SB againt controlish decks. So on t3 they think you're gonna slam sovereigns and they have path up. Instead you Plow Under and double time warp them.
I like Turn 1 Thoughtseize/ Inquisition of Kozilek
Turn 2 Devoted Druid/ Lotus Cobra
Turn 3 Plow Under/ Primal Command
repeat turn 3 per infinum
how exactly would you replicate turn 3?
plow is fun. i played a few games with a sampler list using it and death cloud, not exactly the same concept, and thee probably wasn't enough zoo testing to come to any conclusions, but it looked like it had potential.
other options are WGR with ajani, a monogreen version, or a pure control setup where this is the equalizer.
i guess i would just test every version of it you think would be interesting or has the most powerful interactions available in your opinion and see how it fares against other top decks, primarily zoo. Forcing 2 dead draws and putting them back at least 1 mana on the next turn is pretty brutal. i do like how you can get a similar effect in primal command, card advantage and everything. perhaps use that to tutor out a toolbox of creatures. it's no GSZ but unlike GSZ, your opponent probably can't or wouldn't have the same flexibility available to them in their deck.
Heh I was actually jokingly thinking of a bant deck idea where you denied draws, running "on top of the library" effects like Oust, Lapse of Certainty, Plow Under and Primal Command combined with Snapcaster Mage and/pr Eternal Witness to do it all over again and Leonin Arbiter to try and prevent fetchlands from ruining all your hard work.
Would it be good? No. Would it be funny if you got it to work? Yes.
I actually played this in modern in 2 different types of deck.
The first one was a UG bounce deck using crystal shard and eternal witness to recur it and a RG land destruction deck with witness and Kiki-jiki. Both decks were pretty good but I put them on the back burner since the format is weird right now.
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Currently Playing
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
You could have a cool UG list. You would run any of the following cards
Sakura Tribe Elder
Llanowar Elves
Birds of Paradise
Wall of Roots
Eternal Witness
Snapcaster Mage
Chord of Calling
Primal Command
Plow Under
Cryptic Command
Remand
Teferi
Repeal
Garruks (1,2 or 3) (mainly 1 and 3 though, 2 costs a lot)
Little jace
Time Walk (the 5 mana one, sick combo with snapcaster mage)
I always loved this card back in the day. Having been out for a few years then in, then out again, I didn't actually realize until last week that it was in 8th edition and thus legal in Modern.
Ever since then, I have been unable to shake the need to play this card. There is a Modern tourney this Saturday and I MUST find the right deck to run this in.
Is it some sort of Monogreen control, going Mana Dork -> Cultivate/Kodama's Reach -> Plow Under -> Dungrove Elder -> Bring the pain....
Is it some sort of Bant tempo rape with Bant Charm, Remand leading into the Plow then taking over?
Is it the Rock? Do I finally get to sleeve up the Thoughtsiezes I picked up back in July before they shot up but still have yet to put in a deck? Or does a lack of Dorans close that door to me?
Is there some other secret Plow Under deck out there I haven't thought of? I must run it!!!
Standard
BWGRock RampBWG
Modern
UBRGLiving EndUBRG
Legacy
BWGJunkbladeBWG
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“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
The problem is that it's 5 mana. Zoo will just laugh at you and play a land during their turn all while beating you into a pulp. Affinity is also largely unaffected by it because of their low mana curve. It might slow twin down a bit although they can counter it or just win before your little road bump even matters.
Mana denial is a bad strategy when the format is so full of aggressive decks.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Slipknot is back with the Zoo argument lol.
Hey I mentioned every tier 1 deck. Every deck in this format is aggressive even splinter-twin has an aggro speed to it. I could drop to tier 2 doran and jund. It might slow them down except they run a crap ton of discard so more than likely it probably won't be happening here either.
This format is just too fast for durdle cards.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Yes, because clearly the game plan is just to go:
Turn 1: Forest
Turn 2: Forest
Turn 3: Forest
Turn 4: Forest
Turn 5: Forest, Plow Under
Right, so then I will rule out this list.
4x Plow Under
That's some progress I guess.....:rolleyes:
Standard
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Modern
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“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.
If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
do you plan on destroying lands with other spells? How do you stop twin, zoo, or affinity. Mana denial is too slow in this format. We have had probably 20 different threads for it over the last few months and every one of them has came to that same conclusion.
Plow under was seeing play in 12post for the mirror before they banned cloudpost.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
As much as I love plow under, land destruction is just awful when you're getting thrashed by goyfs and nacatls. You might as well say "Well that's cool that you're attacking me for 8 next turn with burn in hand, but instead of playing removal, I'm just going to blow up that temple garden instead. Yeah... that'll do the trick."
Plow Under was the best card you could possibly board in for the 12post match as it just wrecked them, especially if you had access to acceleration, but it's awful against aggro.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Turn one: Noble Hierarch
Turn two: Lightning Bolt their 1 drop, then Remand their next play
Turn three: Ajani Vengeant lock down a creature or land
Turn four: Plow Under, have Ajani burn a creature
you then get two free turns to stabilize. And it doesn't need to be those sort of specific plays either.
Turn one: Birds of Paradise
Turn two: Wall of Roots, Overgrown Battlements
Turn three: Plow Under, Silhana Ledgewalker
Turn four: Sword of War and Peace equip to ledgewalker and take over.
Turn one: Inquisition of Kozilek, pitch their cheapest threat
Turn two: Wall of Roots, Elves of Deep Shadow
Turn three: Plow Under
Turn four: Liliana of the Veil, use edict ability, then Recollect Plow Under
I don't really see any line of play with Plow that is about land destruction. It's about stealing the late game from opponents. You get a late game, they don't. And if you can recur the effect, their game is effectively over.
Standard
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Modern
UBRGLiving EndUBRG
Legacy
BWGJunkbladeBWG
My Sales Thread
I WANT YOUR SORINS
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
In the bottom example you can only have 4 mana in your pool when you cast plow under.
I do understand the card and the uses, but turn 4-5 affecting your opponents tempo is not good enough. If it said 4-5 lands then maybe but all your going to do is force your opponent to top deck lands for 2 turns while your getting beat down by tarmogoyf or tons of pestermite tokens.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Um... three lands (3), Wall of Roots (1), Elves of Deep Shadow (1); 3+1+1=5 where I play. Unless it's been errated...:rolleyes:
Seriously though, you're too quick to dismiss cards. Why even come into a thread like this anyway? If your answer to "how would you do X" is "I wouldn't" you're pretty much just threadcrapping.
Standard
BWGRock RampBWG
Modern
UBRGLiving EndUBRG
Legacy
BWGJunkbladeBWG
My Sales Thread
I WANT YOUR SORINS
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
how do you play both wall of roots and elves of deep shadow on turn 2 when you cast a discard spell on turn 1?
as for the "threadcrapping" sorry I was giving an opinion that has been kicked around here for months. It it was my own I would have told you that I wasn't really sure, but I was just trying to save you an entry fee for a bad tournament where you come to the same conclusion that every thread with plow under in it has came to.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I LOL'd!!
For 5 mana you really want something that wins you the game
Plow Under does not really do that.
Insert witty phrase here
In theory it doesnt win you the game, in practice it does.
The fact that your opponent will not draw a tarmo/burn (assuming he plays zoo) for the next two turn will greatly help you stabilize + get ride of his board. (see Ashinto's examples)
And you can get it back with a eternal witness to repeat the process.
T1: swamp/overgrown tomb, cast thoughtsieze/IOK.
T2: forest (or any land if T1 was the tomb), wall of roots. Remove 1 counter from wall, drop Elves of Deep Shadow.
T3: any land, plow under
7 out of 9 cards on the play, out of 10 on the draw; sketchy, but not impossible given 3 of them are lands that are fairly interchangeable.
Turn 2 Devoted Druid/ Lotus Cobra
Turn 3 Plow Under/ Primal Command
repeat turn 3 per infinum
L1 Judge
how exactly would you replicate turn 3?
plow is fun. i played a few games with a sampler list using it and death cloud, not exactly the same concept, and thee probably wasn't enough zoo testing to come to any conclusions, but it looked like it had potential.
other options are WGR with ajani, a monogreen version, or a pure control setup where this is the equalizer.
i guess i would just test every version of it you think would be interesting or has the most powerful interactions available in your opinion and see how it fares against other top decks, primarily zoo. Forcing 2 dead draws and putting them back at least 1 mana on the next turn is pretty brutal. i do like how you can get a similar effect in primal command, card advantage and everything. perhaps use that to tutor out a toolbox of creatures. it's no GSZ but unlike GSZ, your opponent probably can't or wouldn't have the same flexibility available to them in their deck.
Would it be good? No. Would it be funny if you got it to work? Yes.
The first one was a UG bounce deck using crystal shard and eternal witness to recur it and a RG land destruction deck with witness and Kiki-jiki. Both decks were pretty good but I put them on the back burner since the format is weird right now.
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)
Sakura Tribe Elder
Llanowar Elves
Birds of Paradise
Wall of Roots
Eternal Witness
Snapcaster Mage
Chord of Calling
Primal Command
Plow Under
Cryptic Command
Remand
Teferi
Repeal
Garruks (1,2 or 3) (mainly 1 and 3 though, 2 costs a lot)
Little jace
Time Walk (the 5 mana one, sick combo with snapcaster mage)
Seems cool
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Eternal Witness
4 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Viridian Shaman
4 explore
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Molten Rain
2 Plow Under
4 Stone Rain
5 Forest
5 Mountain
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Stomping Ground
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Blood Moon
3 Pithing Needle
2 Sword of War and Peace
2 Viridian Shaman
And here is my UG list
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Eternal Witness
4 Primeval Titan
4 Annex
4 Crystal Shard
4 Cultivate
4 Explore
2 Kodama's Reach
4 Plow Under
4 Primal Command
8 Forest
6 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
Modern
:rakdos::selesnya: goblins
:symr::symb::symg: Glass Cannon Griselbrand
sig made by Hakai Studios (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6100225)