This is an esper control deck very similar to teachings builds but instead of mystical teachings this deck uses gift's ungiven to search out a combo finish. Essentially when you want to win you search for the unburial rites and the Iona, Shield of Emeria which forces your opponent to bin both of them setting up a semi-lock because if you name the right color you can shut your opponents whole deck down.(or make her impossible to kill)
But gifts says search for 4 cards......
701.15b: If a player is searching a hidden zone for cards with a stated quality, such as a card with a certain card type or color, that player isn’t required to find some or all of those cards even if they’re present in that zone.
This rule effectively makes the wording on gift's say "Up To."
THE DECK
These are the top 3 reanimation targets. Run 1-2(max) in your main deck.
Iona, Shield of Emeria- The most versatile of finishers. Often times will shut down your opponents plan while making itself immune to their removal.
Sundering titan- Wrecks Zoos mana base while being the biggest beater on the field.
Empyrial Archangel- About the same as Iona but better against decks that have 2 colors that can destroy big creatures.
Inquisition of kozilek- Probably the best discard spell for this deck since using it with snapcaster mage doesn't drain your life total. Gets most relevant things.
Thoughtseize- I cut these out of my main deck because creature decks are so fast in modern. If the format slowed Down I could see 1-3 of these.
Duress- Pretty bad against aggro decks, but really good against combo/control. This is the perfect complement to IoK if you need more discard.
Delay- Delay is really good against combo and control while not being completely dead against aggro like other spells. Even if you do have to counter a creature often times it won't have time to come down or it will be less scary on turn 4-5 instead of 2-3.
Remand- remand is only ok in modern although it was an allstar in standard. In this deck I could see myself running 1-2 of them although it is pretty worthless against fast aggro decks and sometimes in counter wars.
Mana leak- great card. best when used with several other counterspells.
[CARD]
Rune snag[/CARD]-Similar to mana leak. This is a long debate that I'm not going to get into.
spell peirce-Decent against combo and control. great with snapcaster mage.
spell snare- Several decks run less 2cmc spells than they used to, but this card still retains its value. Great with snapcaster mage.
[CARD]
Negate[/CARD]- The best counterspell to use against combo/control. It does nothing to creatures so it is mostly a sideboard card, however 1 in the main deck is fine.
Cancel/ect- The mana counter magic is pretty slow in modern, but decks that run fewer counterspells might run 1-2 of these because they are hard counters.
SPOT
Path to Exile- If only it was swords to plowshares. Still the best removal available in any deck.
Smother- Solid number 2 next to path to exile. Kills essentially all relevant creatures in this format since most decks don't run creatures with mana cost higher than 3.
[CARD]
Doom Blade[/CARD]/Go For the Throat/Victim of the Night- These have conditions, but kill bigger stuff.
Damnation- What black always wanted and finally got thanks to timespiral block.
Day of Judgment- Mostly just Wrath of God with a different name.
[CARD]
Hallowed burial[/CARD]- Deals with indestructible creatures, but is mostly just another white mass removal spell for decks that can't afford BB as easily.
Consume the Meek- Instant speed is pretty cool, but this is mostly for decks that can't support the WW for wrath/day.
Esper Charm- Mostly for card draw however the versatility is nice.
Snapcaster Mage- A good way to diversify your spell base. Also good in gifts packages.
Raven's Crime- The easiest way to discard a piece if you draw it. Also works well with gifts because it has the same effect even in the graveyard.
Noxious Revival- A tricky card that was made for gifts ungiven. We can't pay the G, but 2 life is a small price to use it with gifts piles. Put it into a pile with 2 of something that you want and you will always get it.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth- Extremely black heavy list might want this.
[CARD]
Academy Ruins[/CARD]- We don't typically run artifacts, but we might in the future so I figured I would add this card to the list.
Gifts ungiven is a very versatile card forces you to make several decisions. Basically you can sum up how to use gifts in terms of packages.
Any 3 Mass removal spells work. You can also use noxious revival as your 3rd Mass removal spell.
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
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Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
How well has this deck done against tier 1 decks? I am looking to replace my now banned UR storm deck and this deck does look fun to play. What has testing showed (if you have tested it)
No offense, but I think you missed the point of this deck.
Esper Gifts is an instant speed permission deck. It uses counters/instant speed removal as it's primary line of defense, with sorcery speed sweepers to clear things that get through. Gifts and Esper Charm are your EOT action if you have mana up. You've replaced the counters (which synergise with Gifts, Charm and Snapcaster), with a ton of one cmc discard spells? Your only secondary kill conditions are side boarded Geists, and your plan to get them through (in a Zoo heavy format), is a singleton Death's Storehouse? You are correct in saying that the deck is a control deck with Reanimation as a line of attack, but your list is brought to it's knees by a single resolved Relic? This isn't Esper Gifts, it's a bad Rock deck.
You should know that this is taken directly from a teachings decks with a few cards replaced. the deck that got 15 points at worlds to be exact. changing the teachings and adding in 1 unburial rites, 1 Iona, and one wrath of god in place of random one ofs.
I bet this deck would beat yours in the mirror 7 times out of 10. It also has a decent matchup against zoo while beating any control that shows up, and having about a 70% matchup on splinter twin.
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
So are you saying that a deck with single win condition, that involves putting a 9cmc card into the graveyard and rebirthing it can be competitive? Certainly not with that deck list in my opinion. You cant stall the opponent indefinately to run out iona, you'll need some other way of winning incase that plans fails. What, for example happens if iona gets surgical extraction'ed in response to unburial rites? The deck just loses to that, unless you plan on beating him down with snapcasters.
I suppose cards like inquisition of kozilek are in there to deal with that? Still doesn't seem to be preferable to just running more threats or at least one extra idea that isn't creature removal.
well yeah discard almost guarantees that it won't be stopped. The teachings deck this was based off of only ran snapcaster and Creeping Tar Pits to win and it went 5-1 in the modern portion at worlds. No one is going to have main deck hate for something like this anyways. Often times I will take out the combo after game 1 and just win with Geist of Saint Traft after I wipe out their hand and board. I also have a few planeswlakers in my sideboard but I cut them to have more room to beat zoo since I really only need addtional win conditions for control, but I don't need any help in that match up. I beat 4 teachings decks 2-0 in a roll yesterday. Never even dropped a single game.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
You should know that this is taken directly from a teachings decks with a few cards replaced. the deck that got 15 points at worlds to be exact. changing the teachings and adding in 1 unburial rites, 1 Iona, and one wrath of god in place of random one ofs.
I bet this deck would beat yours in the mirror 7 times out of 10. It also has a decent matchup against zoo while beating any control that shows up, and having about a 70% matchup on splinter twin.
God you are so over-the-top arrogant. There is NO way that the decklist you just posted has an above 50% matchup against every tier 1 deck in the format which is PRECISELY what you just stated.
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Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
If it's a Teachings deck with a different endgame, why not post it in the Teachings forum? You can't just mod a Teachings deck and call it a good Gifts deck, they're fundamentally different strategies. Teachings is a reactive card, tutoring up answers to specific threat arrayed against it over many turns. Gifts is used for burst card advantage, setting up engines and endgame plans, and occasionally used for specific answers (Wrath packages, etc).
Gifts can play the same exact way as mystical teachings. I can't help it if you see it as an aggressive card because you haven't played with it enough to really understand it. So many times I will grab a wrath package or just a few removal spells or something to make sure that I can win. this is why you run all 4 gifts. Like i said i have won with nothing but snapcaster mages and creeping tar pits. It isn't fundamentally different at all. Teachings is the worst card in a teachings deck, and gifts ungiven is better than teachings. This is essentially a gifts rock list that doesn't have the poor card advantage and mana base that gifts rock has. Also you have no idea how teachings works in modern. It's not often that you can actually be reactive with teachings in modern so you run discard that way you can predict how to use the card.
Iyanaga's deck had more man lands and sideboard Elspeths, giving it better threat diversity. That list would not beat a decent control deck. It was a metagame deck against Zoo and Twin, nothing more.
True it had 3 tar pits, but I didn't care for them early. It was too much of a tempo problem to not be able to cast a path or IoK on turn 1. As for elspeth I don't really see the matchup I need them. This list has another win condition that his list didn't so it comes out the same except I can win out of nowhere at times. how would this list not beat a control deck? Discard hoses control so hard in modern because we don't have enough card advantage to overcome it.
I admit however the sample list in the previous thread is outdated, it was pre-Worlds and not fully tested. An updated list is forthcoming.
I don't care what you post or don't post on that thread. What are you going to change anyways? Make it more like this list then sit and talk smack about how I have no idea what I'm doing and how my deck is so bad.
God you are so over-the-top arrogant. There is NO way that the decklist you just posted has an above 50% matchup against every tier 1 deck in the format which is PRECISELY what you just stated.
I never said that it had an above 50% against zoo. I said zoo was decent meaning around 45%-50. I will take a hard match up with zoo to get about 10-15% against control and twin decks. I don't really care for your tone either. Stop being a.........
I believe his logic of that was that if teachings can go 5-1, therefore its got a better than 50% chance against every deck and therefore, if my deck can beat it 2-0 4 times in a row, its better than it in every matchup. The flaw here (aside form the massive gap in what i assume was his reasoning) i believe is how different teachings and gifts play out. They're very different cards and a gifts deck with 2 man-lands and an iona as its kill conditions (and side-board geists which aren't really all that good here anyway imo) is just not going to do as well as a teachings deck in a similar position. What makes the gap even larger was how meta-tuned iyanaga's deck was. It was built to beat zoo and splinter twin and at worlds, it did that but in the next tournament where the meta game will have possibly shifted, i wouldn't see it doing as well as it did.
Stop assuming what I am talking about because you have no idea. The flaw here is that you people fail to see the forest from the trees. Gifts ungiven and mystical teachings are almost the same card if you don't run a teferi + fatty package(which is terrible and slow in modern BTW)
Other than teferi tricks I can do anything with gifts that I can with teachings except I can't get a(nearly) auto-win combo from teachings. So my decks not meta tuned? I mean I took his list and fixed a few things and made my teachings list. Then I took my teachings list(which was based off of his list although I did change 7-8 cards) and changed my teachings package into gifts packages . I did like the geist tech, because nothing else really gives that sort of inevitability which teachings(and this version of gifts) lacked.
good try though your arguments almost sounded good if I would have only read every other word. At least you did try to put out some sort of argument instead of just flaming.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Replacing cards that made a deck work is not the same as making a functional deck. Gifts Ungiven does not do the same thing as Mystical Teachings. They are not the same deck.
Replacing cards that made a deck work is not the same as making a functional deck. Gifts Ungiven does not do the same thing as Mystical Teachings. They are not the same deck.
How does it not do the same thing? I can gifts for mass removal, I can gifts for extirpate(afterboard) I can gifts just to get a +2 card advantage. I can do anything with a gifts that I can with teachings(sans search for teferi and other creatures when teferi is in play which I believe this angle of attack is not good enough for modern) and I can win out of nowhere.
Gifts>teachings
I mean teachings is the worst card in the teachings decks. You can't use it to reactivity answers threats like you could in standard. this is why the teachings decks had so much discard.
also instead of herp derp they is not the same cardzes
Give me an actual argument that shows a fundamental understanding of magic. Show why they are not the same using situations and factors that are likely to come up.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I'm not sure if this is right in the slightest, but it does seem as if a single Boseju, Who Shelters All in the board could make your win quicker against control because counter mana doesn't need to be held up. And definitely a lot more inevitable. It makes gifts uncounterable too, not just the rites.
On the flip side, you'd probably have to board out a non-land because it's very bad at being a land.
I'm not sure if this is right in the slightest, but it does seem as if a single Boseju, Who Shelters All in the board could make your win quicker against control because counter mana doesn't need to be held up. And definitely a lot more inevitable. It makes gifts uncounterable too, not just the rites.
On the flip side, you'd probably have to board out a non-land because it's very bad at being a land.
this is a pretty good idea for control mirrors. My list is heavy discard so it won't be much of a problem for me, but for list without discard this could be a decent 1 of in board.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I'm not sure if this is right in the slightest, but it does seem as if a single Boseju, Who Shelters All in the board could make your win quicker against control because counter mana doesn't need to be held up. And definitely a lot more inevitable. It makes gifts uncounterable too, not just the rites.
On the flip side, you'd probably have to board out a non-land because it's very bad at being a land.
Finally, someone who wants to work on the deck and not get into a ****ing contest. As far as the land is concerned, I think it is worth a try. Uncounterable Gifts, Rite, or any form of CA is good against control. I believe that control matchups are not the issue for this deck, it is mainly aggro from what I can tell. Zoo is harsh if you cannot keep them in check early. I hope Zoo gets burned from the bannings on the 20th. Wishful thinking I know, but one can dream right?
Finally, someone who wants to work on the deck and not get into a ****ing contest. As far as the land is concerned, I think it is worth a try. Uncounterable Gifts, Rite, or any form of CA is good against control. I believe that control matchups are not the issue for this deck, it is mainly aggro from what I can tell. Zoo is harsh if you cannot keep them in check early. I hope Zoo gets burned from the bannings on the 20th. Wishful thinking I know, but one can dream right?
No you're not allowed to dream lol.:)
yeah zoo is typically going to be sub 50, but that is just the nature of the beast. You could run a deck with nothing but cards that are good against zoo and still lose a match to them.
I am working on a fog deck right now also...just to piss in zoo's eye. It loses to pretty much everything else though.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
yeah zoo is typically going to be sub 50, but that is just the nature of the beast. You could run a deck with nothing but cards that are good against zoo and still lose a match to them.
I am working on a fog deck right now also...just to piss in zoo's eye. It loses to pretty much everything else though.
Nice lol. I really do hate Zoo. Here is my current list, what do you think?
looks ok. I would probably cut either the BSA or the wurmcoil though. Also I would probably throw Timely Reinforcements in my sideboard and run 3 inquisition of kozilek. I would also try to find room for an additional snapcaster mage because he is probably 4 of worthy in this deck. On second though I would stick at 3 with your list because you need something like 8-10 1 cmc spells for snapcaster to be good as a 4 of in modern. I would replace the BSA/Worm(which ever you cut) with a path to exile so that you have 4.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
looks ok. I would probably cut either the BSA or the wurmcoil though. Also I would probably throw Timely Reinforcements in my sideboard and run 3 inquisition of kozilek. I would also try to find room for an additional snapcaster mage because he is probably 4 of worthy in this deck. On second though I would stick at 3 with your list because you need something like 8-10 1 cmc spells for snapcaster to be good as a 4 of in modern.
How is IoK in modern? I haven't tested it at all in this format. I stuck to combo till wotc introduced it to my good friend the ban-hammer. I dont really want to cut Wurmcoil as he is a house against everything. What about Batterskull over Baneslayer? Its cheaper and evasive, but doesnt fly or have abilities beside vigilance. I remember seeing a list somewhere that ran Kitchen Finks as a 4 of. I was thinking about trying it as a 3 of to start. Whats your opinions on it?
How is IoK in modern? I haven't tested it at all in this format. I stuck to combo till wotc introduced it to my good friend the ban-hammer. I dont really want to cut Wurmcoil as he is a house against everything. What about Batterskull over Baneslayer? Its cheaper and evasive, but doesnt fly or have abilities beside vigilance. I remember seeing a list somewhere that ran Kitchen Finks as a 4 of. I was thinking about trying it as a 3 of to start. Whats your opinions on it?
IoK is pretty solid. honestly I would be running thoughtseize if it wasn't bad against zoo. I often use snapcaster with discard so I would find myself down to about 10 after fetches and shocks(which I use sparingly)
well the reason for running as few expensive spells as possible is to cut down on bad draws. Kitchen finks is pretty good against zoo but pretty dead vs the rest of the field. I would probably say that timely reinforcements is better than it though but it is also pretty dead against part of the field.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
That deck looks a lot better in my opinion, i tend to prefer mana leak over the delays but i'm not sure if thats correct, adding the wurmcoils and the baneslayer i feel answers the threats problem.
Slipknot, i don't see teachings and gifts as the same or even a similar card so don't try pass off my idea as flaming, its not, i just don't think that replacing a few cards in the teachings deck makes a good gifts deck. Anyway, we should drop this and move on. You should at least give Myrmidon some credit in your opening post seeing as he made the primer for this first now in fairness.
I think the main problem for this deck will always be decks like zoo that can hit it hard early on before it can get gifts or another threat out. From my own play testing of the deck, stopping cards like wild nacatl or even steppe lynx can be hard before they do considerable damage so personally i would throw in another PTE or a doom blade in gaara's list maybe over the 26th land. I'm not certain that 26 land is all that necessary other than being ultra cautious.
Baneslayer is not working out as well as I had planned. I am tempted to take it out for Elspeth, Knight Errant. I have also been considering Sphinx of Jwar Isle over Baneslayer for the shroud aspect. Delay is actually pretty stellar. It gives you time to pull out the Iona combo to prevent the recast of the card. Also it is a nice hard counter against opposing counterspells.
I think Elspeth has been a really good option from what i've seen, the sphinx just doesn't seem good to me, 6 mana is pretty hefty when you could take the cheaper elspeth instead of it. I never thought of that aspect of delay but it i think it might be better out of the sideboard against control seeing as its not as good vs zoo or even splinter twin.
True, I have been testing Elspeth over Baneslayer and am pleased. Sphinx is actually pretty good and is overlooked. It was an idea I was rolling around in my head. What would replace Delay in the MD? I want to try and keep a package of 7 counters. Perhaps Mana Leak? I am still trying to find room for one more PtE, I dont really want to cut a land.
Just for constructive debate, but is there any reason why thirst for knowledge shouldn't be in here? It does everything you want to be doing... Ditches cards that you want in your grave, draws you fuel when needed, and supports consistency. It just seems like a crime not to be playing it.
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Just for constructive debate, but is there any reason why thirst for knowledge shouldn't be in here? It does everything you want to be doing... Ditches cards that you want in your grave, draws you fuel when needed, and supports consistency. It just seems like a crime not to be playing it.
Esper Charm is simply a better use of slots. There really aren't that many cards you want in your graveyard without using them first.
Perhaps cryptic command? i'm not mad on it myself but it could be a decent enough option. Mana leak does seem pretty solid as an alternative to delay though, its better vs creatures and only a bit worse vs control in the late game. I don't think 26 is all that necessary really, seems over cautious to me.
Ive thought about that. The only issue is the 1UUU cost. Plus it just doesnt hit early drops like leak would. Stopping goyf/confident is powerful against decks that use them. CC would come down to late against early threats, which are this decks main weakness.
the reason for delay is simple. Its a 2 mana hard counterspell to help fight against countermagic. It is the best counterspell you could ever have against countermagic because it doesn't matter if their mana leak comes back in a few turns. Sure it's not great, but its not like we have anything that is much better especially against other control decks. Also It counters anything I need to counter when I need to counter it often times giving me a chance to find another counterspell/ removal spell or just to win the game. I typically sideboard them out against zoo.
As for additional win conditions I did have 1 elspeth and 1 gideon, but they were clunky and I often would draw 1-2 of them in addition to other expensive stuff. I got so tired of losing to my own deck so I cut down to a bare minimum of expensive spells.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
the reason for delay is simple. Its a 2 mana hard counterspell to help fight against countermagic. It is the best counterspell you could ever have against countermagic because it doesn't matter if their mana leak comes back in a few turns. Sure it's not great, but its not like we have anything that is much better especially against other control decks. Also It counters anything I need to counter when I need to counter it often times giving me a chance to find another counterspell/ removal spell or just to win the game. I typically sideboard them out against zoo.
As for additional win conditions I did have 1 elspeth and 1 gideon, but they were clunky and I often would draw 1-2 of them in addition to other expensive stuff. I got so tired of losing to my own deck so I cut down to a bare minimum of expensive spells.
Delay is good from testing, but I think I like the sound of it sideboard and Leaks main. Its good against control, but terrible against creature decks which are most of the meta. I do believe you original deck needs more threats.
Also It counters anything I need to counter when I need to counter it often times giving me a chance to find another counterspell/ removal spell or just to win the game.
Also this ^ is not good thinking. You set your opponent up to 2 for 1 you in this case. We are control, losing CA to 2 for 1's is a bad plan, no matter how much time it buys you.
Esper Charm is simply a better use of slots. There really aren't that many cards you want in your graveyard without using them first.
Like Iona? Unburial Rites? Anything you can't currently use, but may want to use later with Snapcaster? Drawing 2 wraths in Modern is pretty awful, even against aggro decks, or perhaps discard spells when playing against any aggro deck. There are always at least a few dead cards in any control deck regardless of how you build it, thirst is much better for getting rid of useless "dead" cards than Esper charm is (see Slipknot's posts of "losing to yourself" to see why this matters).
I'm not suggesting using Thirst in a variant without artifacts, but if you can play a few explosives, a few shackles, and even 1-2 spellbombs, it's a much stronger draw spell than Esper Charm is, and makes it so you don't have to play useless junk like Raven's Crime just so you can ditch an Iona. (nothing against raven's crime, but it's awful in a control deck not built around loam)
The other part, is lots of people are playing Wurmcoil & Sundering Titans anyway, so it's not like you're running a shortage of artifacts to support this.
I've played with both in here, and found Thirst a much stronger card (in here at least) than Esper Charm was.
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Previous Thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=367619&page=8
CFB Article: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/alexander-shearer/in-development-the-gifts-that-keep-on-giving/
Another Article: http://www.mtgoacademy.com/gifts-ungiven-in-modern-or-wait-entomb-is-legal-in-this-format/
This is an esper control deck very similar to teachings builds but instead of mystical teachings this deck uses gift's ungiven to search out a combo finish. Essentially when you want to win you search for the unburial rites and the Iona, Shield of Emeria which forces your opponent to bin both of them setting up a semi-lock because if you name the right color you can shut your opponents whole deck down.(or make her impossible to kill)
But gifts says search for 4 cards......
701.15b: If a player is searching a hidden zone for cards with a stated quality, such as a card with a certain card type or color, that player isn’t required to find some or all of those cards even if they’re present in that zone.
This rule effectively makes the wording on gift's say "Up To."
These are the top 3 reanimation targets. Run 1-2(max) in your main deck.
Iona, Shield of Emeria- The most versatile of finishers. Often times will shut down your opponents plan while making itself immune to their removal.
Sundering titan- Wrecks Zoos mana base while being the biggest beater on the field.
Empyrial Archangel- About the same as Iona but better against decks that have 2 colors that can destroy big creatures.
Inquisition of kozilek- Probably the best discard spell for this deck since using it with snapcaster mage doesn't drain your life total. Gets most relevant things.
Thoughtseize- I cut these out of my main deck because creature decks are so fast in modern. If the format slowed Down I could see 1-3 of these.
Duress- Pretty bad against aggro decks, but really good against combo/control. This is the perfect complement to IoK if you need more discard.
Delay- Delay is really good against combo and control while not being completely dead against aggro like other spells. Even if you do have to counter a creature often times it won't have time to come down or it will be less scary on turn 4-5 instead of 2-3.
Remand- remand is only ok in modern although it was an allstar in standard. In this deck I could see myself running 1-2 of them although it is pretty worthless against fast aggro decks and sometimes in counter wars.
Mana leak- great card. best when used with several other counterspells.
[CARD]
Rune snag[/CARD]-Similar to mana leak. This is a long debate that I'm not going to get into.
spell peirce-Decent against combo and control. great with snapcaster mage.
spell snare- Several decks run less 2cmc spells than they used to, but this card still retains its value. Great with snapcaster mage.
[CARD]
Negate[/CARD]- The best counterspell to use against combo/control. It does nothing to creatures so it is mostly a sideboard card, however 1 in the main deck is fine.
Cancel/ect- The mana counter magic is pretty slow in modern, but decks that run fewer counterspells might run 1-2 of these because they are hard counters.
SPOT
Path to Exile- If only it was swords to plowshares. Still the best removal available in any deck.
Smother- Solid number 2 next to path to exile. Kills essentially all relevant creatures in this format since most decks don't run creatures with mana cost higher than 3.
[CARD]
Doom Blade[/CARD]/Go For the Throat/Victim of the Night- These have conditions, but kill bigger stuff.
MASS(run 3)
Wrath of God- Who doesn't know this card?
Damnation- What black always wanted and finally got thanks to timespiral block.
Day of Judgment- Mostly just Wrath of God with a different name.
[CARD]
Hallowed burial[/CARD]- Deals with indestructible creatures, but is mostly just another white mass removal spell for decks that can't afford BB as easily.
Consume the Meek- Instant speed is pretty cool, but this is mostly for decks that can't support the WW for wrath/day.
Esper Charm- Mostly for card draw however the versatility is nice.
Snapcaster Mage- A good way to diversify your spell base. Also good in gifts packages.
Raven's Crime- The easiest way to discard a piece if you draw it. Also works well with gifts because it has the same effect even in the graveyard.
Noxious Revival- A tricky card that was made for gifts ungiven. We can't pay the G, but 2 life is a small price to use it with gifts piles. Put it into a pile with 2 of something that you want and you will always get it.
Vendilion Clique- A decent card against combo and control.
Creeping Tar Pit- The best manland for the deck. Great against planeswalkers and it can act as an alternate win condition.
Shizo, Death's Storehouse- Great with Geist of Saint Traft(sideboard) and can give Iona additional evasion in a pinch.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth- Extremely black heavy list might want this.
[CARD]
Academy Ruins[/CARD]- We don't typically run artifacts, but we might in the future so I figured I would add this card to the list.
Gifts ungiven is a very versatile card forces you to make several decisions. Basically you can sum up how to use gifts in terms of packages.
Any 3 Mass removal spells work. You can also use noxious revival as your 3rd Mass removal spell.
1 damnation
1 day of judgment
1 other card
Iona is whatever win condition is in your deck at the time. raven's crime and a land can be grabbed if you draw one of the pieces.
1 Iona, shield of emeria
This uses part of the sideboard. Snapcaster mage can also be substituted for noxious revival.
1 surgical extraction
1 noxious revival
1 snapcaster mage/other card
Currently in progress
I will be adding list as they show up in events.
My List: for reference
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Raven's Crime
1 Unburial Rites
[27 other spells]
4 Esper Charm
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Path to Exile
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
2 Delay
2 Smother
1 repeal
1 Negate
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judgment
1 Damnation
4 Marsh Flats
3 River of Tears
3 Darkslick Shores
3 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Fetid Heath
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Timely Reinforcements
2 Negate
1 Sundering Titan
1 extirpate
1 Duress
1 doom blade
1 surgical extraction
1 Noxious Revival
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Unburial Rites
1 Raven's Crime
{10 counter-spells}
4 Rune Snag
3 Spell Snare
1 Negate
1 Delay
1 Remand
{3 mass-removal}
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judgment
{15 other spells}
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Esper Charm
4 Path to Exile
1 Peer Through Depths
1 Repeal
1 Smother
4 Marsh Flats
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Darkslick Shores
2 Fetid Heath
2 River of Tears
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Island
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Extirpate
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Negate
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
3 Timely Reinforcements
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
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GYisan Toolbox Combo/ControlG
You should know that this is taken directly from a teachings decks with a few cards replaced. the deck that got 15 points at worlds to be exact. changing the teachings and adding in 1 unburial rites, 1 Iona, and one wrath of god in place of random one ofs.
I bet this deck would beat yours in the mirror 7 times out of 10. It also has a decent matchup against zoo while beating any control that shows up, and having about a 70% matchup on splinter twin.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
well yeah discard almost guarantees that it won't be stopped. The teachings deck this was based off of only ran snapcaster and Creeping Tar Pits to win and it went 5-1 in the modern portion at worlds. No one is going to have main deck hate for something like this anyways. Often times I will take out the combo after game 1 and just win with Geist of Saint Traft after I wipe out their hand and board. I also have a few planeswlakers in my sideboard but I cut them to have more room to beat zoo since I really only need addtional win conditions for control, but I don't need any help in that match up. I beat 4 teachings decks 2-0 in a roll yesterday. Never even dropped a single game.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
God you are so over-the-top arrogant. There is NO way that the decklist you just posted has an above 50% matchup against every tier 1 deck in the format which is PRECISELY what you just stated.
Gifts can play the same exact way as mystical teachings. I can't help it if you see it as an aggressive card because you haven't played with it enough to really understand it. So many times I will grab a wrath package or just a few removal spells or something to make sure that I can win. this is why you run all 4 gifts. Like i said i have won with nothing but snapcaster mages and creeping tar pits. It isn't fundamentally different at all. Teachings is the worst card in a teachings deck, and gifts ungiven is better than teachings. This is essentially a gifts rock list that doesn't have the poor card advantage and mana base that gifts rock has. Also you have no idea how teachings works in modern. It's not often that you can actually be reactive with teachings in modern so you run discard that way you can predict how to use the card.
True it had 3 tar pits, but I didn't care for them early. It was too much of a tempo problem to not be able to cast a path or IoK on turn 1. As for elspeth I don't really see the matchup I need them. This list has another win condition that his list didn't so it comes out the same except I can win out of nowhere at times. how would this list not beat a control deck? Discard hoses control so hard in modern because we don't have enough card advantage to overcome it.
I don't care what you post or don't post on that thread. What are you going to change anyways? Make it more like this list then sit and talk smack about how I have no idea what I'm doing and how my deck is so bad.
I never said that it had an above 50% against zoo. I said zoo was decent meaning around 45%-50. I will take a hard match up with zoo to get about 10-15% against control and twin decks. I don't really care for your tone either. Stop being a.........
Stop assuming what I am talking about because you have no idea. The flaw here is that you people fail to see the forest from the trees. Gifts ungiven and mystical teachings are almost the same card if you don't run a teferi + fatty package(which is terrible and slow in modern BTW)
Other than teferi tricks I can do anything with gifts that I can with teachings except I can't get a(nearly) auto-win combo from teachings. So my decks not meta tuned? I mean I took his list and fixed a few things and made my teachings list. Then I took my teachings list(which was based off of his list although I did change 7-8 cards) and changed my teachings package into gifts packages . I did like the geist tech, because nothing else really gives that sort of inevitability which teachings(and this version of gifts) lacked.
good try though your arguments almost sounded good if I would have only read every other word. At least you did try to put out some sort of argument instead of just flaming.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
How does it not do the same thing? I can gifts for mass removal, I can gifts for extirpate(afterboard) I can gifts just to get a +2 card advantage. I can do anything with a gifts that I can with teachings(sans search for teferi and other creatures when teferi is in play which I believe this angle of attack is not good enough for modern) and I can win out of nowhere.
Gifts>teachings
I mean teachings is the worst card in the teachings decks. You can't use it to reactivity answers threats like you could in standard. this is why the teachings decks had so much discard.
also instead of herp derp they is not the same cardzes
Give me an actual argument that shows a fundamental understanding of magic. Show why they are not the same using situations and factors that are likely to come up.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria + Unburial Rites
1 White Suns's Zenith (if you choose to go that route, its not commonly done from what I have seen)
3 Delay
4 Rune Snag or Remand
Removal
3 Path to Exile
1 Doomblade
1 Go for the Throat
1 Damnation
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judment
3 Esper Charm or Thirst for Knowledge
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GYisan Toolbox Combo/ControlG
On the flip side, you'd probably have to board out a non-land because it's very bad at being a land.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
this is a pretty good idea for control mirrors. My list is heavy discard so it won't be much of a problem for me, but for list without discard this could be a decent 1 of in board.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Finally, someone who wants to work on the deck and not get into a ****ing contest. As far as the land is concerned, I think it is worth a try. Uncounterable Gifts, Rite, or any form of CA is good against control. I believe that control matchups are not the issue for this deck, it is mainly aggro from what I can tell. Zoo is harsh if you cannot keep them in check early. I hope Zoo gets burned from the bannings on the 20th. Wishful thinking I know, but one can dream right?
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GYisan Toolbox Combo/ControlG
No you're not allowed to dream lol.:)
yeah zoo is typically going to be sub 50, but that is just the nature of the beast. You could run a deck with nothing but cards that are good against zoo and still lose a match to them.
I am working on a fog deck right now also...just to piss in zoo's eye. It loses to pretty much everything else though.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Nice lol. I really do hate Zoo. Here is my current list, what do you think?
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Spells
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Doomblade
3 Path to Exile
1 Go for the Throat
3 Delay
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judgment
1 Damnation
4 Rune Snag
4 Esper Charm
1 Unburial Rites
1 Smother
3 Timely Reinforcments
3 River of Tears
4 Marsh Flats
3 Darkslick Shores
3 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Fetid Heath
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Mystic Gates
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
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GYisan Toolbox Combo/ControlG
looks ok. I would probably cut either the BSA or the wurmcoil though. Also I would probably throw Timely Reinforcements in my sideboard and run 3 inquisition of kozilek. I would also try to find room for an additional snapcaster mage because he is probably 4 of worthy in this deck. On second though I would stick at 3 with your list because you need something like 8-10 1 cmc spells for snapcaster to be good as a 4 of in modern. I would replace the BSA/Worm(which ever you cut) with a path to exile so that you have 4.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
How is IoK in modern? I haven't tested it at all in this format. I stuck to combo till wotc introduced it to my good friend the ban-hammer. I dont really want to cut Wurmcoil as he is a house against everything. What about Batterskull over Baneslayer? Its cheaper and evasive, but doesnt fly or have abilities beside vigilance. I remember seeing a list somewhere that ran Kitchen Finks as a 4 of. I was thinking about trying it as a 3 of to start. Whats your opinions on it?
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IoK is pretty solid. honestly I would be running thoughtseize if it wasn't bad against zoo. I often use snapcaster with discard so I would find myself down to about 10 after fetches and shocks(which I use sparingly)
well the reason for running as few expensive spells as possible is to cut down on bad draws. Kitchen finks is pretty good against zoo but pretty dead vs the rest of the field. I would probably say that timely reinforcements is better than it though but it is also pretty dead against part of the field.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Baneslayer is not working out as well as I had planned. I am tempted to take it out for Elspeth, Knight Errant. I have also been considering Sphinx of Jwar Isle over Baneslayer for the shroud aspect. Delay is actually pretty stellar. It gives you time to pull out the Iona combo to prevent the recast of the card. Also it is a nice hard counter against opposing counterspells.
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True, I have been testing Elspeth over Baneslayer and am pleased. Sphinx is actually pretty good and is overlooked. It was an idea I was rolling around in my head. What would replace Delay in the MD? I want to try and keep a package of 7 counters. Perhaps Mana Leak? I am still trying to find room for one more PtE, I dont really want to cut a land.
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Esper Charm is simply a better use of slots. There really aren't that many cards you want in your graveyard without using them first.
Ive thought about that. The only issue is the 1UUU cost. Plus it just doesnt hit early drops like leak would. Stopping goyf/confident is powerful against decks that use them. CC would come down to late against early threats, which are this decks main weakness.
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As for additional win conditions I did have 1 elspeth and 1 gideon, but they were clunky and I often would draw 1-2 of them in addition to other expensive stuff. I got so tired of losing to my own deck so I cut down to a bare minimum of expensive spells.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Delay is good from testing, but I think I like the sound of it sideboard and Leaks main. Its good against control, but terrible against creature decks which are most of the meta. I do believe you original deck needs more threats.
Also this ^ is not good thinking. You set your opponent up to 2 for 1 you in this case. We are control, losing CA to 2 for 1's is a bad plan, no matter how much time it buys you.
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GYisan Toolbox Combo/ControlG
Like Iona? Unburial Rites? Anything you can't currently use, but may want to use later with Snapcaster? Drawing 2 wraths in Modern is pretty awful, even against aggro decks, or perhaps discard spells when playing against any aggro deck. There are always at least a few dead cards in any control deck regardless of how you build it, thirst is much better for getting rid of useless "dead" cards than Esper charm is (see Slipknot's posts of "losing to yourself" to see why this matters).
I'm not suggesting using Thirst in a variant without artifacts, but if you can play a few explosives, a few shackles, and even 1-2 spellbombs, it's a much stronger draw spell than Esper Charm is, and makes it so you don't have to play useless junk like Raven's Crime just so you can ditch an Iona. (nothing against raven's crime, but it's awful in a control deck not built around loam)
The other part, is lots of people are playing Wurmcoil & Sundering Titans anyway, so it's not like you're running a shortage of artifacts to support this.
I've played with both in here, and found Thirst a much stronger card (in here at least) than Esper Charm was.