Ok, since i did it with Dellusions as opposed to illusions, i figured i would try this and hopefully get the luck of getting it upgraded to Developing competitive
(unfortunately, due to finals i can't do a primer for delver decks atm, and i don't know of too many articles about them so if anyone wants to help post it, and ill edit this post with the info)
So since the other thread really has two subtypes, i figured i would start a thread for the one i play the most: UR TEMPO!!!
I'm not entirely sure about 3 Grim Lavamancers with 4 Snapcaster Mages. Especially with the loss of anything resembling a fetchland, all old Grim can profitably exile are creatures not named Chandra's Phoenix and duplicates of instants and sorceries. He and Tiago argue a LOT.
I like 3+ Stromkirk Noble to keep the pressure up on Turn 1, but he blows if Illusions gets a Bear and he dies to Gut Shot all the time.
Glad we finally have our own thread, I'm loving Delver Tempo to death right now and I'm glad we can have a organized place to talk about it.
As for tech cards, Devil's Play is a great card for the mirror match and the control match-up. I've found that in the Mirror match both decks tend to take on a controlling role after game two (usually siding in more counter, one guy even sided out 4x Ponder and 4x Delver). Having a huge mana dump that can end the game very quickly if they tap out is exactly what we need, especially against Esper Control. One card I'd also include is Blasphemous Act in the SB to follow up on their end of turn White Sun for 5.
Any ways, my current list. I'm in flux right now, probably going to re-approach my list with Ravings/Shrine/Backpack in mind.
10/4/2004 You might end up discarding the card you searched for.
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This is what i've been working on for an upcoming tournament.
Notes on the one-of's:
Negate - i want to add one more way to protect my Turn 1 creat
Desperate Ravings - Considering Think Twice and Gitaxian Probe for this slot, but so far Ravings has been good at what i need it to do and that is to dig me cards!
Noxious Revival - Bring back a killed delver/noble, can ensure a delver flip, can function as a "buyback for your burn", I recommend running it, if there is space i'll probably play 1 more.
The problem with Stromkirk is that if you don't have it turn one, or have it in your hand and no Mountains, it sucks. I am going to try it again, but maybe only as a two-of.
I still need to test more of my list, but it could work out with Snappy and Grim. I mean just be selective of what you exile.
Another thing this deck needs to do is mulligan a lot. A game can be won off the back of two lands, one delver, one ponder and one mana leak. Even cutting the ponder you can still power through. This deck excels at mulligans and you should never be afraid to mulligan with the deck. I've won games with this list off of muls to 4 because I shipped away hands I couldn't win with to get me a hand that had a island, delver and a leak.
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This deck needs to take a lesson from illusions and realize just how good the phantasmal bear is. Yes even without a lord of the unreal.
Grim lavamancer does indeed need to be replaced but stromkirk noble isnt what you want to do it with. Its easy to say that calling stromkirk noble bad because you need a red source in your opening hand is just like saying delver of secrets is bad because you need a blue source in your opening hand but its just flat out wrong. This deck wants to be heavy blue with a little red for burn and later threats like the phoenix. The stromkirk noble makes this deck way to inconsistent. The best option left for an early threat is the phantasmal bear. Try it out you wont be sorry.
Oddly enough another card ive been wanting to try out in this deck is mimic vat. Its probably terrible because turn three is a bad turn to be taping out so you cant realistically play it until turn 5, but the possiblity of recurring snapcaster mages for burn to the dome late game is really appealing. One of the things Ive found that u/r delver builds have problems with is finishing the game and this would add some more reach almost filling the same role as shrine does for RDW since shrine doesnt really go well in a deck running so much blue. However it probably is just awful. Deserves a test run though I think.
One last thing. Druidic satchel is a must keep in this deck. Thinning the land out of yours draws is so incredibly powerful for a deck that tends to run out of gas.
The problem with Stromkirk is that if you don't have it turn one, or have it in your hand and no Mountains, it sucks. I am going to try it again, but maybe only as a two-of.
Running Noble as a two-of will decrease your chances of having it on turn one and as you have said it sucks. IMO, you need to run 3-4 Nobles or none at all.
@Babam
Yeah. I agree with the aggressive mulligan this deck really needs that turn one drop.
@Islington
I agree that this deck needs to run blue with burn as backup but the problem with phantasmal bear is you can't protect it. It may be good versus the aggro matchup but its just not efficient against the control and midrange decks.
I've consistently tested ur tempo/aggro for about a week, and I can say this:
1 Grim Lavamancer. That card stars against control, but absolutely sucks at everything else without fetches.
Stromkirk Noble. It's a great card for RDW and such, but kinda "meh" here. I've been using, to AMAZING results:
That card is amazing in so many ways. Ok. An almost automatic 3/2 attacking against control, this card just wrecks the game for them. Against aggro, play it, then next turn leave mana up for leak, say go, Waif gets transformed, and you counter their Stormblood Berserker, and completely disable their Noble. Then, if you win that game and you're not playing against Control (hopefully draw-go), side them out becaus you're on the draw. If they win, side them back in because you'll be on the play.
Overall, that card has rocked my socks off.
Now, back to my analysis:
3 (maybe even 4) Gut Shot, that card wins games and has amazing synergy with Berserker.
2-3 Phantasmal Image. So very good here.
Druidic Satchel. Haven't tried it out, but I'm smiling at the very thought. Seems very, very good here.
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The second is guaranteed as a T1 deck that is really good, plus its' mana is better. I would choose #2. However, Eminem is correct, comes down to preference. Eminem was not correct, however, for tying Rihanna to the bed and setting the house on fire.
Here's my 2 cents: I'll stick to lavamancer being the better one, and would be even better if you are in a metagame where there are very few decks with enchantments and artifacts (steel, tokens, humans, etc.) so you can ignore green splash, and use some black symbols and use Forbidden Alchemy. It fuels the lavamancer enough to get some burns going.
Here is what I have been using. Amazingly Mindshrieker is quite the late game finisher, and he fuels lavamancer nicely. I'm aware I only have 20 land but the draw makes up for it. I am heavier blue becuase I really want the turn 1 delver. I cut phoenix for chandra and wow. She handles control, and pings illusions. I use her to kill titans by doubling incinerates or 10 off a double volley. Cutting the phoenix was hard but getting aggressive and hitting turn 1 delver turn 3 phoenix is wishful thinking. Heavy blue with a splash red is where I wanted to be.
I agree that this deck needs to run blue with burn as backup but the problem with phantasmal bear is you can't protect it. It may be good versus the aggro matchup but its just not efficient against the control and midrange decks.
Being able to protect the bear is really not a problem. The need here is for a supplementary threat not a win condition. Now obviously an early bear is not as good as an early delver but it will sneak in early for some damage and then eat a removal spell that you cant counter because the bear would die anyway. Great you kept up early pressure and they spent a removal spell that is now not targeting the delver or phoenix that youve had time to draw into.
The bear is not a perfect solution by any means but it is better than all the other options including reckless waif which is incredibly easy for most decks to keep from flipping and to flip back over when you pass your turn to flip her. Even your own deck is going to flip reckless waif every time you use a snapcaster. If it werent for those problems then reckless waif would probably be a better solution even though its red.
I guess my point is that there isnt really a great option to go in that slot and after trying alot of options the bear has continuously proven to be the best choice.
I'm wondering for this deck whether shrine would be a good card to play. I mean we obviously don't use burn nearly as much as rdw but seeing as we play a tempo game that could mean it will have time to charge up naturally.
I guess my point is that there isnt really a great option to go in that slot and after trying alot of options the bear has continuously proven to be the best choice.
Sadly this is true, the other one blue drop left is Vedalken Cetarch Let us hope Dark Ascension brings us a juicy 1cc blue creature to go with Delver *fingers crossed*
Ok first of all, I am VERY glad to see that this deck finally got a home. I have been playing it for almost 2 months now (yes, I was rocking it before it made top8 @ SCG). I am an avid RDW lover, and as soon as I saw Delver and Snapcaster Mage spoiled, I had dreams of this deck. It took me a while to acquire 4x Snapcasters, but as soon as I did, I began brewing =]
Here are some crucial points of information that I have learned through weekly tournaments, extensive playtesting, and getting to know the deck in general:
#1. Grim Lavamancer is absolutely amazing in this deck. He should be a MINIMUM 2 of, preferably a 3 of. His anti-synergy with Snapcaster Mage is irrelevant because of .....
#2. Desperate Ravings. This card is absolutely INSANE. Play it as a 4 of, and you will see what I mean. You can't blindly cast it like Think Twice, because it's drawback can come back to haunt you. My rule of thumb is....if I have a good hand, and/or am ahead, I don't cast it. If I have a Snapcaster Mage in hand with viable Flashback targets, I usually don't cast it. With a hand full of land, or little to no gas, is the perfect time to cast it. The discarded card is what fuels our friend Grim Lavamancer. You will see that Lavamancer is able to dump creatures and lands quite often, allowing you to maximize the number of Snapcaster Targets available.
#3. Vapor Snag/Dismember/Psychic Barrier. I have tried all of them as 2 ofs, and I have enjoyed all of them. I think Psychic Barrier might be the strongest option because our deck has problems with big creatures, mainly Titans and Hero of Bladehold.
#4. Ponder. 100000% 4 of. Sets up Delver flips, smooths out land draws, digs for action, great combo with Snapcaster turn 3. You are a tempo deck, you need to draw more cards than your opponent to keep the tempo going. This along with the insane advantage of Desperate Ravings allows this.
Here are some responses to some of the previous posts in this thread:
-Chandra Firebrand seems awful in this deck. What are you going to twincast? A main phase instant burn spell? Seems awful. Phoenix is the only way to go.
-Stromkirk Noble is a good card, and I have swapped it back and forth with Chandra's Phoenix, but I think the Phoenix is just superior. It has RR in the cost sure, but the ability to fly over blockers, and recur in the lategame is just too good. Stromkirk is really nice, but unless you cast him T1, he sucks. We don't want cards that suck in the mid to late game, because this deck isn't RDW, we aren't all in for a quick win. The Phoenix should be at LEAST a 2 of, but NOT a 4 of. You don't want multiples in your opening hands, and you don't want to draw 3 in one game usually. He has great synergy with Brimstone Volley, and Snapcasting a burn spell eot for recursion. His evasion is the real kicker though. In a world of Blade Splicers, Gut Shots, an assortment of Illusions, and Doom Blades, Phoenix seems to shine. After cutting my Nobles, I never looked back.
-To everyone who is trying to play this deck without Desperate Ravings and Ponder, you are kidding yourselves. You will never beat a control deck or make it to the lategame without the ability to dig into your deck for more threats and/or answers.
I think that is enough out of me for now, my decklist, as always, is in my signature. I keep my 76 updated at all times, and feel free to comment on my list in my blog =]
Ok first of all, I am VERY glad to see that this deck finally got a home. I have been playing it for almost 2 months now (yes, I was rocking it before it made top8 @ SCG). I am an avid RDW lover, and as soon as I saw Delver and Snapcaster Mage spoiled, I had dreams of this deck. It took me a while to acquire 4x Snapcasters, but as soon as I did, I began brewing =]
Here are some crucial points of information that I have learned through weekly tournaments, extensive playtesting, and getting to know the deck in general:
#1. Grim Lavamancer is absolutely amazing in this deck. He should be a MINIMUM 2 of, preferably a 3 of. His anti-synergy with Snapcaster Mage is irrelevant because of .....
#2. Desperate Ravings. This card is absolutely INSANE. Play it as a 4 of, and you will see what I mean. You can't blindly cast it like Think Twice, because it's drawback can come back to haunt you. My rule of thumb is....if I have a good hand, and/or am ahead, I don't cast it. If I have a Snapcaster Mage in hand with viable Flashback targets, I usually don't cast it. With a hand full of land, or little to no gas, is the perfect time to cast it. The discarded card is what fuels our friend Grim Lavamancer. You will see that Lavamancer is able to dump creatures and lands quite often, allowing you to maximize the number of Snapcaster Targets available.
#3. Vapor Snag/Dismember/Psychic Barrier. I have tried all of them as 2 ofs, and I have enjoyed all of them. I think Psychic Barrier might be the strongest option because our deck has problems with big creatures, mainly Titans and Hero of Bladehold.
#4. Ponder. 100000% 4 of. Sets up Delver flips, smooths out land draws, digs for action, great combo with Snapcaster turn 3. You are a tempo deck, you need to draw more cards than your opponent to keep the tempo going. This along with the insane advantage of Desperate Ravings allows this.
Here are some responses to some of the previous posts in this thread:
-Chandra Firebrand seems awful in this deck. What are you going to twincast? A main phase instant burn spell? Seems awful. Phoenix is the only way to go.
-Stromkirk Noble is a good card, and I have swapped it back and forth with Chandra's Phoenix, but I think the Phoenix is just superior. It has RR in the cost sure, but the ability to fly over blockers, and recur in the lategame is just too good. Stromkirk is really nice, but unless you cast him T1, he sucks. We don't want cards that suck in the mid to late game, because this deck isn't RDW, we aren't all in for a quick win. The Phoenix should be at LEAST a 2 of, but NOT a 4 of. You don't want multiples in your opening hands, and you don't want to draw 3 in one game usually. He has great synergy with Brimstone Volley, and Snapcasting a burn spell eot for recursion. His evasion is the real kicker though. In a world of Blade Splicers, Gut Shots, an assortment of Illusions, and Doom Blades, Phoenix seems to shine. After cutting my Nobles, I never looked back.
-To everyone who is trying to play this deck without Desperate Ravings and Ponder, you are kidding yourselves. You will never beat a control deck or make it to the lategame without the ability to dig into your deck for more threats and/or answers.
I think that is enough out of me for now, my decklist, as always, is in my signature. I keep my 76 updated at all times, and feel free to comment on my list in my blog =]
CHEERS!
Ok:
1) I'm still trying to find out the optimal 1-drop suite, as its hard to optimize such a weird mana-base with off colour one drops...plus the aforementioned no-synergy with Snapcaster Mage
2) I love Desperate Ravings, but as a 2 of. The problem with running four is that you cut gas to have a card to find gas...6 draw spells should be optimal so 4 ponder and 2 Ravings (I'm also trying a Satchel, which i guess is sorta like ravings but different.)
3) I like 3 Vapor Snag, No dismember and 1 Psychic Barrier in my main, with 2 Dismember in the side, but i may try 2 each of Barrier and Snag. Snag is huge in this meta.
@turdy how has chandra the firebrand been as opposed to the phoenix? That seems like it could be interesting...
She has been amazing and I think I need to explain myself here as to why. First Desperate Ravings is not an aggro decks kind of card. Gerry Thompson and Chapin are both saying its insane because of the 25, 26, and 27 land decks they have been running. If you are flooded for mana with this deck (especially with mine I run 20 land) you shouldn't have kept it. We dont exactly have bombs we need to dig for. We are just trying to fill up with gas when running draw spells. That is why Think Twice and even Divination are better. Okay now back to Chandra. I will run through all abilities. Her +1 upgrades all burn. My shocks are now Chain Lightnings, and Incinerates are Fireblasts. With all of the 1/1 and 0/1 creatures running around this is nice to turn on a Brimstone Volley too. Her -2 lets me Brimstone for 10, draw 4 off of Divination or look at a possible 6, 7, or 8 cards off of a double Ponder. I have never had to use her ultimate but the deck is young. She single handedly owns tokens, and illusions (both are decks we have trouble with) easily. I used to run her with the Phoenix but I cut them to try Lavamancer/Mindshrieker. By the way I'm not looking back on that decision.
Mindshrieker doesnt seem very good due to all the cards being low costing. Plus if he dies, game over. Phoenix provides a very reliant threat that even when killed can come back, which is nothing to scoff at. I've won many games off a phoenix coming back
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(unfortunately, due to finals i can't do a primer for delver decks atm, and i don't know of too many articles about them so if anyone wants to help post it, and ill edit this post with the info)
So since the other thread really has two subtypes, i figured i would start a thread for the one i play the most: UR TEMPO!!!
So to start the discussion...welcome to innistrad
SURPRISE I CHANGED THE FIRST POST
....sorta
here is an updated list
4 Stormblood Berserker
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Vexing Devil
4 Ponder
3 Thought Scour
3 Thunderous Wrath
4 Brimstone Volley
2 Incinerate
2 Gut shot
4 Sulfur Falls
7 Mountain
discuss!
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I like 3+ Stromkirk Noble to keep the pressure up on Turn 1, but he blows if Illusions gets a Bear and he dies to Gut Shot all the time.
As for tech cards, Devil's Play is a great card for the mirror match and the control match-up. I've found that in the Mirror match both decks tend to take on a controlling role after game two (usually siding in more counter, one guy even sided out 4x Ponder and 4x Delver). Having a huge mana dump that can end the game very quickly if they tap out is exactly what we need, especially against Esper Control. One card I'd also include is Blasphemous Act in the SB to follow up on their end of turn White Sun for 5.
Any ways, my current list. I'm in flux right now, probably going to re-approach my list with Ravings/Shrine/Backpack in mind.
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Stromkirk Noble
1 Molten Steel Dragon
2 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Ponder
4 Mana Leak
1 Negate
2 Shock
2 Galvanic Blast
3 Incinerate
3 Brimstone Volley
2 Vapor Snag
1 Devil's Play
1 Red Sun Zenith
9 Mountain
4 Sulfur Falls
2 Negate
2 Flashfreeze
2 Spellskite
2 Stitched Drake
2 Dismember
1 Molten Steel Dragon
1 Blasphemous Act
3 Dissipate
Honestly I think our worst matchup is our mirror and U/W/X controls after sideboarding.
Legacy
WW Stax WW
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Vintage
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I really like shrine in the deck though
9 Island
9 Mountain
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Stromkirk Noble
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Brimstone Volley
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Mana Leak
4 Ponder
2 Vapor Snag
1 Desperate Ravings
1 Negate
1 Noxious Revival
This is what i've been working on for an upcoming tournament.
Notes on the one-of's:
Negate - i want to add one more way to protect my Turn 1 creat
Desperate Ravings - Considering Think Twice and Gitaxian Probe for this slot, but so far Ravings has been good at what i need it to do and that is to dig me cards!
Noxious Revival - Bring back a killed delver/noble, can ensure a delver flip, can function as a "buyback for your burn", I recommend running it, if there is space i'll probably play 1 more.
Any criticism and suggestions are welcome
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"How can we make a future if we don't try our hardest?"
-Monkey D. Luffy
Playing:
Modern:
BGR JUND RGB
Legacy:
URU/R Delver RU
I still need to test more of my list, but it could work out with Snappy and Grim. I mean just be selective of what you exile.
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Contributor to theRules Tip Blog check us out for daily rules and tournament tips! *on hiatus, back in 6 months*I collect Foil Innistrad Island #254 Current Count : 152
Grim lavamancer does indeed need to be replaced but stromkirk noble isnt what you want to do it with. Its easy to say that calling stromkirk noble bad because you need a red source in your opening hand is just like saying delver of secrets is bad because you need a blue source in your opening hand but its just flat out wrong. This deck wants to be heavy blue with a little red for burn and later threats like the phoenix. The stromkirk noble makes this deck way to inconsistent. The best option left for an early threat is the phantasmal bear. Try it out you wont be sorry.
Oddly enough another card ive been wanting to try out in this deck is mimic vat. Its probably terrible because turn three is a bad turn to be taping out so you cant realistically play it until turn 5, but the possiblity of recurring snapcaster mages for burn to the dome late game is really appealing. One of the things Ive found that u/r delver builds have problems with is finishing the game and this would add some more reach almost filling the same role as shrine does for RDW since shrine doesnt really go well in a deck running so much blue. However it probably is just awful. Deserves a test run though I think.
One last thing. Druidic satchel is a must keep in this deck. Thinning the land out of yours draws is so incredibly powerful for a deck that tends to run out of gas.
Running Noble as a two-of will decrease your chances of having it on turn one and as you have said it sucks. IMO, you need to run 3-4 Nobles or none at all.
@Babam
Yeah. I agree with the aggressive mulligan this deck really needs that turn one drop.
@Islington
I agree that this deck needs to run blue with burn as backup but the problem with phantasmal bear is you can't protect it. It may be good versus the aggro matchup but its just not efficient against the control and midrange decks.
Sword of feast and famine FAIL responses
"How can we make a future if we don't try our hardest?"
-Monkey D. Luffy
Playing:
Modern:
BGR JUND RGB
Legacy:
URU/R Delver RU
Im gonna switch back to Noble for testing. as a 3 of because as Karaxu stated, you need it turn 1
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I know what you mean, this deck is really a Shivan Reef short of being a monster.
Sword of feast and famine FAIL responses
"How can we make a future if we don't try our hardest?"
-Monkey D. Luffy
Playing:
Modern:
BGR JUND RGB
Legacy:
URU/R Delver RU
1 Grim Lavamancer. That card stars against control, but absolutely sucks at everything else without fetches.
Stromkirk Noble. It's a great card for RDW and such, but kinda "meh" here. I've been using, to AMAZING results:
Overall, that card has rocked my socks off.
Now, back to my analysis:
3 (maybe even 4) Gut Shot, that card wins games and has amazing synergy with Berserker.
2-3 Phantasmal Image. So very good here.
Druidic Satchel. Haven't tried it out, but I'm smiling at the very thought. Seems very, very good here.
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Stanard:
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Casual:
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Im SOOO trying that!
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Working on Perfecting (All type 2)
Standard :symu::symr::symw: Midrange
EDH :symw::symu::symb: Sharuum
4 snapcaster mage
2 grim lavamancer
2 mindshrieker
2 chandra, the firebrand
2 psychic barrier
4 ponder
3 think twice
2 divination
4 incinerate
4 shock
5 mountain
4 sulfur falls
11 island
Being able to protect the bear is really not a problem. The need here is for a supplementary threat not a win condition. Now obviously an early bear is not as good as an early delver but it will sneak in early for some damage and then eat a removal spell that you cant counter because the bear would die anyway. Great you kept up early pressure and they spent a removal spell that is now not targeting the delver or phoenix that youve had time to draw into.
The bear is not a perfect solution by any means but it is better than all the other options including reckless waif which is incredibly easy for most decks to keep from flipping and to flip back over when you pass your turn to flip her. Even your own deck is going to flip reckless waif every time you use a snapcaster. If it werent for those problems then reckless waif would probably be a better solution even though its red.
I guess my point is that there isnt really a great option to go in that slot and after trying alot of options the bear has continuously proven to be the best choice.
BUWTezz Affinity
UBMystical Teachings
Sadly this is true, the other one blue drop left is Vedalken Cetarch Let us hope Dark Ascension brings us a juicy 1cc blue creature to go with Delver *fingers crossed*
Sword of feast and famine FAIL responses
"How can we make a future if we don't try our hardest?"
-Monkey D. Luffy
Playing:
Modern:
BGR JUND RGB
Legacy:
URU/R Delver RU
@turdy how has chandra the firebrand been as opposed to the phoenix? That seems like it could be interesting...
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Here are some crucial points of information that I have learned through weekly tournaments, extensive playtesting, and getting to know the deck in general:
#1. Grim Lavamancer is absolutely amazing in this deck. He should be a MINIMUM 2 of, preferably a 3 of. His anti-synergy with Snapcaster Mage is irrelevant because of .....
#2. Desperate Ravings. This card is absolutely INSANE. Play it as a 4 of, and you will see what I mean. You can't blindly cast it like Think Twice, because it's drawback can come back to haunt you. My rule of thumb is....if I have a good hand, and/or am ahead, I don't cast it. If I have a Snapcaster Mage in hand with viable Flashback targets, I usually don't cast it. With a hand full of land, or little to no gas, is the perfect time to cast it. The discarded card is what fuels our friend Grim Lavamancer. You will see that Lavamancer is able to dump creatures and lands quite often, allowing you to maximize the number of Snapcaster Targets available.
#3. Vapor Snag/Dismember/Psychic Barrier. I have tried all of them as 2 ofs, and I have enjoyed all of them. I think Psychic Barrier might be the strongest option because our deck has problems with big creatures, mainly Titans and Hero of Bladehold.
#4. Ponder. 100000% 4 of. Sets up Delver flips, smooths out land draws, digs for action, great combo with Snapcaster turn 3. You are a tempo deck, you need to draw more cards than your opponent to keep the tempo going. This along with the insane advantage of Desperate Ravings allows this.
Here are some responses to some of the previous posts in this thread:
-Chandra Firebrand seems awful in this deck. What are you going to twincast? A main phase instant burn spell? Seems awful. Phoenix is the only way to go.
-Stromkirk Noble is a good card, and I have swapped it back and forth with Chandra's Phoenix, but I think the Phoenix is just superior. It has RR in the cost sure, but the ability to fly over blockers, and recur in the lategame is just too good. Stromkirk is really nice, but unless you cast him T1, he sucks. We don't want cards that suck in the mid to late game, because this deck isn't RDW, we aren't all in for a quick win. The Phoenix should be at LEAST a 2 of, but NOT a 4 of. You don't want multiples in your opening hands, and you don't want to draw 3 in one game usually. He has great synergy with Brimstone Volley, and Snapcasting a burn spell eot for recursion. His evasion is the real kicker though. In a world of Blade Splicers, Gut Shots, an assortment of Illusions, and Doom Blades, Phoenix seems to shine. After cutting my Nobles, I never looked back.
-To everyone who is trying to play this deck without Desperate Ravings and Ponder, you are kidding yourselves. You will never beat a control deck or make it to the lategame without the ability to dig into your deck for more threats and/or answers.
I think that is enough out of me for now, my decklist, as always, is in my signature. I keep my 76 updated at all times, and feel free to comment on my list in my blog =]
CHEERS!
STANDARD:
UWDelverWU
LEGACY:
RGOBLINSR
RBURNR (Retired)
WWhite WeenieW (Work in Progress)
Ok:
1) I'm still trying to find out the optimal 1-drop suite, as its hard to optimize such a weird mana-base with off colour one drops...plus the aforementioned no-synergy with Snapcaster Mage
2) I love Desperate Ravings, but as a 2 of. The problem with running four is that you cut gas to have a card to find gas...6 draw spells should be optimal so 4 ponder and 2 Ravings (I'm also trying a Satchel, which i guess is sorta like ravings but different.)
3) I like 3 Vapor Snag, No dismember and 1 Psychic Barrier in my main, with 2 Dismember in the side, but i may try 2 each of Barrier and Snag. Snag is huge in this meta.
4) YEs, absolutely, 4 of Ponder. Done
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
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xRxAffinityxRx
She has been amazing and I think I need to explain myself here as to why. First Desperate Ravings is not an aggro decks kind of card. Gerry Thompson and Chapin are both saying its insane because of the 25, 26, and 27 land decks they have been running. If you are flooded for mana with this deck (especially with mine I run 20 land) you shouldn't have kept it. We dont exactly have bombs we need to dig for. We are just trying to fill up with gas when running draw spells. That is why Think Twice and even Divination are better. Okay now back to Chandra. I will run through all abilities. Her +1 upgrades all burn. My shocks are now Chain Lightnings, and Incinerates are Fireblasts. With all of the 1/1 and 0/1 creatures running around this is nice to turn on a Brimstone Volley too. Her -2 lets me Brimstone for 10, draw 4 off of Divination or look at a possible 6, 7, or 8 cards off of a double Ponder. I have never had to use her ultimate but the deck is young. She single handedly owns tokens, and illusions (both are decks we have trouble with) easily. I used to run her with the Phoenix but I cut them to try Lavamancer/Mindshrieker. By the way I'm not looking back on that decision.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
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xRxAffinityxRx