So I was musing recently about some trouble I was having with EDH. I have 9 different decks, and I'm relatively happy with them. However, I'm always itching to build something new. But between 9 EDH decks and 2 Legacy, my collection and budget are being stretched to their limits. I don't think I can really support the kind of deckbuilding that I want without disassembling existing ones, and I'm not particularly eager to do that either, as, as I said, I like my EDH decks. Additionally, a lot of my collection's trade value is tied up in duplicate cards across my EDH decks - 9 Sol Rings, 3 Mana Crypts (with the prospect of getting 6 more to be "Complete"), 3 Demonic Tutor, 3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth/Cabal Coffer sets, 3 Enlightened Tutor, 2 Tooth and Nail, duplicates of most of the Fetches, Shocks, and ABUR Duals, and on and on. And there are plenty of expensive cards that I have only one of but really want more to complete decks, like Gaea's Cradle, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Recruiter, etc.
So then a thought struck me. What if I take all of my EDH decks, deconstruct them (writing down the lists, of course), remove the duplicates, add in a bunch of other cards I've considered for EDH decks in the past, and sleeve them all up in the same kind of sleeve. That way, on the fly, I can assemble any of my existing decks, as well as any new decks that tickle my fancy, having a different deck every week, or even every game (if people are willing to tolerate about 15 minutes of desorting, flipping through cards, and shuffling between games).
Taking this a step further, with a stack of basically every EDH staple, I could effectively have a Commander Cube. I'm still mulling over the rules in my head, but I'm thinking it's something like this:
66 card decks, including General. Draft decks are 40 cards, which is 2/3rds of 60, so an EDH Draft deck should be 2/3rds size.
5 packs per player. Each pack contains 16 cards. 15 normal cards, and 1 General (in a special sleeve). I figure with 65 cards, you're going to want about 39 non-lands and 26 lands for a 60%/40% ratio. 39/75 is darn close to 23/42, which is what you build a draft deck from. Generals will be special, though a General can be used in a deck if so desired.
Each pack, each player may take only one General, and must take at least one (to prevent cutting a player off entirely from having a General). If the last card in a pack coming to a player is a General and that player already has one, he must swap with the player closest to the left (or maybe reverse of pack-passing-direction?) who was dealt a last-pick non-General when they did not have a General. If there are multiple doubled Generals in a row, resolve Right to left.
So, for example, at an 8-player table where seating is
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8
Players 8 and 7 are both dealt a last-pick General, but have already selected a general for that pack. Players 1 and 5 did not get a General this pack. 8 swaps his last pick with 5, 7 swaps his last pick with 1.
Once all the cards are drafted, each player selects one of their chosen generals and constructs a 66-card deck including that general, under the normal EDH rules.
Likely, I will try to minimize the number of mono-colored generals that get included in each draft, so that no one gets stuck trying to build mono anything and ends up having to run 50% or more lands, but I do want to leave it open as a possibility.
What are people's thoughts on this? Would you be interested in playing a Commander Cube Draft? Any thoughts on the rules? Cards I should probably include that I might not be thinking of?
Edit:
Alright, here's my first rendition of the list. The way I'm going to be working is that the 40 2- or 3-color Multicolored generals will be in special sleeves and subject to the rules in the first post. Any mono-colored legends and Horde of Notions are afforded no special treatment, but may still be used as generals if drafted and so desired.
Definitely make suggestions if you see cards missing that you're pretty sure should be there. Try to suggest something to take out for it. I'd like to keep my few cycles intact across all five (Commands, Chancellors, Titans, Praetors, Titans, and one Planeswalker per Color).
I used to have an EDH cube, it was fun. Is color identity issues the reason you're regulating the color breakdown of your packs? I ended up simply eschewing the color identity rules for deck construction entirely, as it was just so much easier that way. We did end up with a lot of three and four color decks, but whatever. Also, for the generals, we had the stack of all the legendary creatures separate, and drafted one or more packs of all legendary creatures before drafting the other cards, which I think is probably the best way to do it.
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My wife suggested a similar thing to me, letting me flesh the idea out as best I can. She suggested essentially the opposite line of thinking: taking the cube and making it an EDH-like experience. We never got far enough into the process to have anything really concrete or balanced, though.
We considered having a first pack draft made entirely of legendary creatures, then players would draft the remaining cards and build something for one of their drafted legends. Players would have a handful of drafted legends, so they can draft into different colours based on what's passed to them (to an extent, at least). Then, after the draft is finished, everyone decides which of their legends they'll use to build.
I'd be interested to hear how your development with the project goes.
I used to have an EDH cube, it was fun. Is color identity issues the reason you're regulating the color breakdown of your packs? I ended up simply eschewing the color identity rules for deck construction entirely, as it was just so much easier that way. We did end up with a lot of three and four color decks, but whatever. Also, for the generals, we had the stack of all the legendary creatures separate, and drafted one or more packs of all legendary creatures before drafting the other cards, which I think is probably the best way to do it.
Color identity is part of it, but I also want to avoid the possibility that packs end up entirely or largely a certain color. I guess ideally I would mandate each pack have 1 card of each color and then randomize the other ten, but that's a little harder to assemble packs from. It's a lot easier to shuffle 9 piles of 40 or 80 cards than it is to shuffle one pile of 600 cards, especially if you expect to get a nice distribution of colors throughout. I guess I could deal the first 5 (one of each color, or maybe as many as 8 with one of each color, an artifact, a multicolor, and a land) cards from every pack and then shuffle the rest together and deal the rest out randomly.
I like the thought of being able to draft towards a specific General, or draft a specific set of colors and then go looking for a General.
As for the Generals I'd use, I'm thinking with 40 possible, I'd want to do 2 of each of the 10 3-color pairs, one of each of the 10 2-color pairs, one of each mono, one 5-color, and then four repeat colors for cards I find particularly interesting. Maybe I'd eschew a 5-color to allow for 2 of each mono. Even though mono are pretty bad to draft towards, they fit into the most decks and there's a lot of interesting ones.
A guy has put together a commander cube out here in Portland - it's pretty awesome. First you draft a pack of multicolor commanders, then you draft the rest of your deck. Its surprising how close to a constructed deck you can get in power level - I've pulled off some infinite Animar shenanigans, the Scion deck is definitely in there, and once I saw someone actually draft a monogreen Rofellos list that was pretty obscene. It ain't cheap, though, and it requires a dedicated local group commander players to really get your mileage out of it. If you've got the scratch and the opponents, though, go for it. It's a great way to shake up the game if you're getting bored of playing the same decks every time.
Haha, you're putting way more thought into this than I did. I just used literally every different legendary creature I could find. Before I scrapped it so I could have decks again I had almost 200, which I was pretty proud of... Anyway what you're doing there sounds good, although just 40 possible commanders might get stale. Definitely try it out and see how it goes.
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My gut reaction was having to buy a lot of very expensive cards so that decks are on the same power level (everyone gets a sol ring, mana crypt, mana vault, maze of ith blah blah). If there's only a few of each floating around you could get something super lop sided.
On the other hand the point of the draft is to have to make power level decisions. Passing on a sol ring to get a Rofellos or something.
At the end of the day though you'll want to essentially obtain enough of the best EDH cards out there to make X very good competitive decks. And that's still an expensive task.
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I've been interested in trying something like this for a while now. As someone who currently manages a traditional cube, I would suggest that you don't "fix" any of the packs. Rather, as others have suggested, have a preliminary draft in which players draft from a pool of legendary creatures so they have options going forward. Subsequently, draft the cube itself.
Keep in mind that in typical drafts, each drafter assembles approximately 24 playables excluding lands out of their 45 cards (or 53%). Therefore to scale up to commander, players realistically need to be drafting 39 playables (assuming their land percentage scales accordingly) out of their 75 cards (also assuming a 65 card deck + 1 Commander).
I guess what I am trying to say is that by drafting 75 cards, (as you seem to intend upon), players should be able to get enough playables without fixing packs. This will also encourage better drafting and increased variation between drafts, both positives in my opinion.
Moving forward if you want someone to bounce ideas off of, don't hesitate to shoot me a pm. I may have to look back into this idea myself. Good luck.
EDIT: Something else to consider: I would imagine that you wouldn't want to be drafting the entire cube each time you draft, so may I suggest aiming for a 750-card Cube. I currently have a 450-card Cube and I've found that to be the optimal size for both power-level and desirable variation between drafts. Assuming that percentage scales for this type of Cube, 750 seems right.
I think if you took your average cube (with edh banlist) and added a General Selection phase, it could work. Tweaking card selection and other variables (starting life/deck size/poison counters/how many games to play) would be a cool experiment. Balancing shouldn't be a problem, because you can just exclude cards that are overpowered. You're also able to direct the meta with your Commander Selection, which I think is really interesting as well.
I actually really like this idea and would be interested in starting a Cocktrice playgroup to see the results.
It might also be interesting to have two or three Commander-drafting phases. Sometimes you'll change colors/direction mid draft in a regular or Cube draft, and being forced into drafting the commander first, and having a way better deck in off colors or with a different commander in mind would kinda stink.
Maybe draft commanders, then do a pack, then draft commanders again? Just a thought.
I had an idea for this but rather than draft commander we would auction them. Some number would be flipped over at random at the start of the draft then each player could bid starting life and cards for each general. If no one else wants it you could get it for free, but if players were fighting over one they'd be handicapped in game for it. Think it balances out better commanders vs weaker ones. Afterward draft as normal and at the end allow players to trade cards that aren't playable in their decks for cards that are. This would cut back on hate drafting and insure that everyone was able to put together a playable deck.
Another thought: how many people would you like to be able to support in the draft? Personally I find it difficult to get a full 8 around here most times for Cube. Perhaps limiting it to 6 players for the possibility to break up into 2 3-player pods? In my experience anything more than 6 players (and even that's pushing it) becomes very problematic from a time standpoint if nothing else.
I've commander cubed with as few as four other people, and it worked just fine, although I think between 6 and 8 is probably ideal. As for choosing commanders, I think drafting a pack of commanders first thing is probably the best way to go. Not only does it let you sculpt the rest of your draft to synergize with the commanders you have available to you, it also does a good job of letting you know what colors are open and making it so you don't waste any time chasing colors that just aren't going to come.
And really, folks, believe me, there's no need to do any kind of card-swapping or whatnot to arrive at a playable (or even terrifyingly powerful) 99. I've seen one, two, three, and five color decks be drafted successfully, so as long as the color balance is good, various archetypes are supported, and you're not padding out your cube with stuff that really doesn't belong in Commander, you should be fine.
My gut reaction was having to buy a lot of very expensive cards so that decks are on the same power level (everyone gets a sol ring, mana crypt, mana vault, maze of ith blah blah). If there's only a few of each floating around you could get something super lop sided.
On the other hand the point of the draft is to have to make power level decisions. Passing on a sol ring to get a Rofellos or something.
At the end of the day though you'll want to essentially obtain enough of the best EDH cards out there to make X very good competitive decks. And that's still an expensive task.
I already have at least one of each of these things. Having multiples doesn't mean that every deck will end up with one, it rather means that there's a shot that one person's deck will end up with several.
I currently have enough of the best EDH cards out there to have 9 very good decks, of varying levels of competitiveness. I'm doing this to cut DOWN on my expense, as this will free up a lot of my multiples.
I've been interested in trying something like this for a while now. As someone who currently manages a traditional cube, I would suggest that you don't "fix" any of the packs. Rather, as others have suggested, have a preliminary draft in which players draft from a pool of legendary creatures so they have options going forward. Subsequently, draft the cube itself.
Keep in mind that in typical drafts, each drafter assembles approximately 24 playables excluding lands out of their 45 cards (or 53%). Therefore to scale up to commander, players realistically need to be drafting 39 playables (assuming their land percentage scales accordingly) out of their 75 cards (also assuming a 65 card deck + 1 Commander).
I guess what I am trying to say is that by drafting 75 cards, (as you seem to intend upon), players should be able to get enough playables without fixing packs. This will also encourage better drafting and increased variation between drafts, both positives in my opinion.
Moving forward if you want someone to bounce ideas off of, don't hesitate to shoot me a pm. I may have to look back into this idea myself. Good luck.
EDIT: Something else to consider: I would imagine that you wouldn't want to be drafting the entire cube each time you draft, so may I suggest aiming for a 750-card Cube. I currently have a 450-card Cube and I've found that to be the optimal size for both power-level and desirable variation between drafts. Assuming that percentage scales for this type of Cube, 750 seems right.
Probably going to shoot for 600 (which will give me a full set for 8-man draft), may bump up to 750 or 900 eventually. I don't know how often I'll get the full 8 people together.
It might also be interesting to have two or three Commander-drafting phases. Sometimes you'll change colors/direction mid draft in a regular or Cube draft, and being forced into drafting the commander first, and having a way better deck in off colors or with a different commander in mind would kinda stink.
Maybe draft commanders, then do a pack, then draft commanders again? Just a thought.
This I why my original thought was drafting one Commander per pack. Currently not sure how well it will work, but it's worth a shot.
Another thought: how many people would you like to be able to support in the draft? Personally I find it difficult to get a full 8 around here most times for Cube. Perhaps limiting it to 6 players for the possibility to break up into 2 3-player pods? In my experience anything more than 6 players (and even that's pushing it) becomes very problematic from a time standpoint if nothing else.
Right. Like I said above, I'm going to aim at making it draftable for 8 people, but I can always size down to 4-6. 4 seems neat as you would then just play with each other.
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I just assumed it was logical to include 1 copy of each card in the cube. Right?
That's the idea. I'm likely also going to have a peripheral set of cards that I wouldn't want included in the cube but would want available for drafting, like all of the 1-drops for my Edric.
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I had another thought about drafting the Commanders themselves...what if instead of drafting them as packs, you drafted them Rochester style? This would provide all players with information about the direction that each opponent is likely to go with the subsequent cube draft, and will potentially lead to more balanced/effective decks.
Yeah, I guess Rochester would work, but then you need to either stack the seating for the draft itself so an esper player doesn't end up sitting between Vish Kal and Momir Vig. Better to just draft everything and let the natural color-choosing forces in draft do their thing. As long as someone's not being bloody-minded about their color and general choices, everyone will end up with decks that are roughly equivalent in power level. Multiplayer politics should even the playing field even further. Sure, sometimes someone will open Primeval Titan, Tooth and Nail, and Avenger of Zendikar, but then again that's the nature of drafting - sometimes you get the nuts, sometimes you don't.
CodaPDX: Do you have a rules list for that link ? How much starting life ? How many poison counters ? How much General Damage, Min. Deck size ? any other rules worth noting ?
CodaPDX: Do you have a rules list for that link ? How much starting life ? How many poison counters ? How much General Damage, Min. Deck size ? any other rules worth noting ?
Well, nothing is stopping you from making it a 60 card singleton cube or somesuch, but it won't be EDH then. I thought drafting a 99 card deck was kind of the point. ::shrug:: Does it take a while to draft? Yeah. Is it worth it? Absolutely.
Yeah, I guess Rochester would work, but then you need to either stack the seating for the draft itself so an esper player doesn't end up sitting between Vish Kal and Momir Vig.
For one, I don't necessarily see the problem with that since players will have a handful of Generals to work with, not to mention that, for example, the white cards the Sharuum deck is drafting won't necessarily be the same as those that Vish Kal is drafting. Secondly, it's sort of the responsibility of the drafter that if the people to their right and left are visibly encroaching on their colors to switch things up so that they will be able to assemble a deck.
I'm also thinking of excluding all 5-color generals to avoid the possibility of someone ruining the draft by just taking the best card in every pack and undermining everyone else.
Well, nothing is stopping you from making it a 60 card singleton cube or somesuch, but it won't be EDH then. I thought drafting a 99 card deck was kind of the point. ::shrug:: Does it take a while to draft? Yeah. Is it worth it? Absolutely.
I dunno , I thought drafting a general and building a deck was kinda the point. Guess I was wrong
Not sure if I could handle drafting 100+ cards. EDH games take long enough already!
So I was musing recently about some trouble I was having with EDH. I have 9 different decks, and I'm relatively happy with them. However, I'm always itching to build something new. But between 9 EDH decks and 2 Legacy, my collection and budget are being stretched to their limits. I don't think I can really support the kind of deckbuilding that I want without disassembling existing ones, and I'm not particularly eager to do that either, as, as I said, I like my EDH decks. Additionally, a lot of my collection's trade value is tied up in duplicate cards across my EDH decks - 9 Sol Rings, 3 Mana Crypts (with the prospect of getting 6 more to be "Complete"), 3 Demonic Tutor, 3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth/Cabal Coffer sets, 3 Enlightened Tutor, 2 Tooth and Nail, duplicates of most of the Fetches, Shocks, and ABUR Duals, and on and on. And there are plenty of expensive cards that I have only one of but really want more to complete decks, like Gaea's Cradle, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Recruiter, etc.
So then a thought struck me. What if I take all of my EDH decks, deconstruct them (writing down the lists, of course), remove the duplicates, add in a bunch of other cards I've considered for EDH decks in the past, and sleeve them all up in the same kind of sleeve. That way, on the fly, I can assemble any of my existing decks, as well as any new decks that tickle my fancy, having a different deck every week, or even every game (if people are willing to tolerate about 15 minutes of desorting, flipping through cards, and shuffling between games).
Taking this a step further, with a stack of basically every EDH staple, I could effectively have a Commander Cube. I'm still mulling over the rules in my head, but I'm thinking it's something like this:
66 card decks, including General. Draft decks are 40 cards, which is 2/3rds of 60, so an EDH Draft deck should be 2/3rds size.
5 packs per player. Each pack contains 16 cards. 15 normal cards, and 1 General (in a special sleeve). I figure with 65 cards, you're going to want about 39 non-lands and 26 lands for a 60%/40% ratio. 39/75 is darn close to 23/42, which is what you build a draft deck from. Generals will be special, though a General can be used in a deck if so desired.
Each pack, each player may take only one General, and must take at least one (to prevent cutting a player off entirely from having a General). If the last card in a pack coming to a player is a General and that player already has one, he must swap with the player closest to the left (or maybe reverse of pack-passing-direction?) who was dealt a last-pick non-General when they did not have a General. If there are multiple doubled Generals in a row, resolve Right to left.
So, for example, at an 8-player table where seating is
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8
Players 8 and 7 are both dealt a last-pick General, but have already selected a general for that pack. Players 1 and 5 did not get a General this pack. 8 swaps his last pick with 5, 7 swaps his last pick with 1.
Once all the cards are drafted, each player selects one of their chosen generals and constructs a 66-card deck including that general, under the normal EDH rules.
Likely, I will try to minimize the number of mono-colored generals that get included in each draft, so that no one gets stuck trying to build mono anything and ends up having to run 50% or more lands, but I do want to leave it open as a possibility.
What are people's thoughts on this? Would you be interested in playing a Commander Cube Draft? Any thoughts on the rules? Cards I should probably include that I might not be thinking of?
Edit:
Alright, here's my first rendition of the list. The way I'm going to be working is that the 40 2- or 3-color Multicolored generals will be in special sleeves and subject to the rules in the first post. Any mono-colored legends and Horde of Notions are afforded no special treatment, but may still be used as generals if drafted and so desired.
1 Hinder
1 Spell Crumple
1 Body Double
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Draining Whelk
1 Gilded Drake
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Kedrekt Leviathan
1 Magus of the Future
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Mulldrifter
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Vesuvan Shapeshifter
1 Vesuvan Doppleganger
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Trinket Mage
1 Treasure Mage
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Willbender
1 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Frost Titan
1 Acquire
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Bribery
1 Capsize
1 Crystal Shard
1 Commandeer
1 Cryptic Command
1 Desertion
1 Evacuation
1 Fabricate
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Forbid
1 Faerie Trickery
1 Dissipate
1 Spelljack
1 Gather Specimens
1 Future Sight
1 Intuition
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Mystic Remora
1 Rhystic Study
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Time Warp
1 Knowledge Exploitation
1 Rite of Replication
1 Spin into Myth
1 Time Stop
1 Time Stretch
1 Decree of Silence
1 Overwhelming Intellect
1 Myojin of Seeing Winds
1 Treachery
1 Control Magic
1 Recurring Insight
1 Recall
1 Land Equilibrium
1 Arcane Denial
1 Arcanis, the Omnipotent
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls
1 Equilibrium
1 Opposition
1 Mind over Matter
1 Palinchron
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Sphinx Ambassador
1 Take Possession
1 Phyrexian Ingester
1 Sakashima, The Impostor
1 Corrupted Conscience
1 Dreamscape Artist
1 Cackling Counterpart
Black (76)
1 Avatar of Woe
1 Bane of the Living
1 Bloodghast
1 Nether Traitor
1 Bitterblossom
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Chainer, Dementia Master
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Visara the Dreadful
1 Grave Titan
1 Shriekmaw
1 Mindslicer
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Profane Command
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Withered Wretch
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Coffin Queen
1 Corpse Dance
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Boneshard Slasher
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Dimir House-Guard
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Nightmare Incursion
1 Bitter Ordeal
1 Ashes to Ashes
1 Decree of Pain
1 Pestilence Demon
1 Scion of Darkness
1 Enslave
1 Sheoldred, the Whispering One
1 Animate Dead
1 Necromancy
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Promise of Power
1 Moonlight Bargain
1 Cabal Conditioning
1 Mind Twist
1 Death Cloud
1 Liliana Vess
1 Living Death
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Praetor's Grasp
1 Syphon Mind
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Exsanguinate
1 Strands of Night
1 Attrition
1 Night's Whisper
1 Sign in Blood
1 Chancellor of the Dross
1 Necrologia
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Sanguine Bond
1 Black Market
1 Temporal Extortion
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Sewer Nemesis
1 Extractor Demon
1 Thrashing Wumpus
1 Tombstone Stairwell
1 Innocent Blood
1 Barter in Blood
1 Buried Alive
Red (76)
1 Incendiary Command
1 Myojin of Infinite Rage
1 Inferno Titan
1 Urabrask, the Hidden
1 Chandra Ablaze
1 Chancellor of the Forge
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Anarchist
1 Anger
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Dwarven Miner
1 Dwarven Blastminer
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Welder
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Taurean Mauler
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Shattering Spree
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Greater Gargadon
1 Goblin Recruiter
1 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin Ruinblaster
1 Outrage Shaman
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Blood Moon
1 Ruination
1 Stranglehold
1 Chaos Warp
1 Banefire
1 Fork
1 Reverberate
1 Reiterate
1 Recoup
1 Past in Flame
1 Surreal Memoir
1 Warstorm Surge
1 Pandemonium
1 Vicious Shadows
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Wildfire
1 Destructive Force
1 Word of Seizing
1 Grab the Reins
1 Magma Jet
1 Insurrection
1 Fervor
1 Sneak Attack
1 Gamble
1 Wheel of Fate
1 World at War
1 Gratuitous Violence
1 Seize the Day
1 Mana-Charged Dragon
1 Conquering Manticore
1 Mogg Infestation
1 Aftershock
1 Warp World
1 Wake of Destruction
1 Wild Ricochet
1 Norin the Wary
1 Confusion in the Ranks
1 Gauntlet of Might
1 Stingscourger
1 Moggcatcher
1 Savage Beating
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Giant Harbinger
1 Thermopod
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Pyrohemia
1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
Green (76)
1 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Genesis Wave
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Chord of Calling
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Rampant Growth
1 Farseek
1 Nature's Lore
1 Three Visits
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Hunting Wilds
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Search for Tomorrows
1 Beast Within
1 Earthcraft
1 Doubling Season
1 Birthing Pod
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Omnath, Locus of Mana
1 Exploration
1 Burgeoning
1 Oracle of Mul-Daya
1 Krosan Grip
1 Greater Good
1 Life From the Loam
1 Mana Reflection
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Defense of the Heart
1 Wild Pair
1 Harmonize
1 Sakura Tribe Elder
1 Acidic Slime
1 Brutalizer Exarch
1 Wood Elves
1 Yavimaya Dryad
1 Yavimaya Grainger
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Diligent Farmhand
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Terastodon
1 Sylvan Library
1 Scavenging Oooze
1 Cloudthresher
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Genesis
1 Fierce Empath
1 Regrowth
1 Holistic Wisdom
1 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Rampaging Baloths
1 Regal Force
1 Spearbreaker Behemoth
1 Vigor
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Perilous Forays
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
1 Mossbridge Troll
1 Copperhoof Vorrac
1 Hydra Omnivore
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Chancellor of the Tangle
1 Relic Crush
1 Myojin of Life's Web
1 Night Soil
1 Primal Command
1 Karmic Guide
1 Reveillark
1 Sun Titan
1 Auramancer
1 Marshal's Anthem
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Eight-and-a-half Tails
1 Adarkar Valkyrie
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Condemn
1 Oblation
1 Serra Ascendant
1 Serra Avatar
1 Invincible Hymn
1 Beacon of Immortality
1 Ancestral Tribute
1 Flickerwisp
1 Glimmerpoint Stag
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Taj-nar Swordsmith
1 Steelshaper Apprentice
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Academy Rector
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Mirror Entity
1 Stonecloaker
1 Sunblast Angel
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Planar Cleansing
1 Austere Command
1 Aura of Silence
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1 Return to Dust
1 Dust to Dust
1 Revoke Existence
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Rout
1 Wrath of God
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Land Tax
1 Luminarch's Ascension
1 Evangelize
1 Martial Coup
1 Phyrexian Rebirth
1 Soul Snare
1 Endless Horizons
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 True Conviction
1 Boon Reflection
1 Cradle of Vitality
1 Exalted Angel
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Storm Herd
1 Twilight Shepherd
1 Archon of Justice
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Delaying Shield
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Myojin of Cleansing Fire
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Chancellor of the Annex
1 False Prophet
1 Reverse the Sands
1 Dawn Charm
1 White Sun's Zenith
1 Decree of Justice
1 Martyr's Bond
1 Karmic Justice
Artifacts/Eldrazi (79)
1 Dimir Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Gruul Signet
1 Selesnya Signet
1 Azorius Signet
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Golgari Signet
1 Simic Signet
1 Izzet Signet
1 Boros Signet
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Felwar Stone
1 Mind Stone
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Caged Sun
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Scroll Rack
1 Crystal Ball
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Oblivion Stone
1 All is Dust
1 Karn Liberated
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Ulamog, The Infinite Gyre
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Grafted Exoskeleton
1 Argentum Armor
1 Myr Retriever
1 Junk Diver
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Duplicant
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 It That Betrays
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Expedition Map
1 Helm of Possession
1 Memory Jar
1 Mind's Eye
1 Mindslaver
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Skullclamp
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Mimic Vat
1 Contagion Engine
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Altar of Dementia
1 Planar Portal
1 Citanul Flute
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Dreamstone Hedron
1 Amillary Sphere
1 Phyrexian Processor
1 Tawnos's Coffin
1 Cloudstone Curio
Multicolor (81)
1 Sphinx Summoner
1 Mindleech Mass
1 Spinal Embrace
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Memory Plunder
1 Recoil
1 Terminate
1 Furmarole
1 Fire Covenant
1 Void
1 Cauldron Dance
1 Torrent of Souls
1 Decimate
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Hull Breach
1 Savage Twister
1 Wilderness Elemental
1 Apocalypse Hydra
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Glare of Subdual
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Aura Shards
1 Privileged Position
1 Sterling Grove
1 Azorius Guildmage
1 Dovescape
1 Mirrorweave
1 Mistmeadow Witch
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Sovereigns of Lost Alara
1 Angel of Despair
1 Debtors' Knell
1 Vindicate
1 Identity Crisis
1 Divinity of Pride
1 Necromancer's Covenant
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Putrefy
1 Worm Harvest
1 Gleancrawler
1 Biomantic Mastery
1 Gilder Bairn
1 Mystic Snake
1 Voidslime
1 Spitting Image
1 Trygon Predator
1 Dominus of Fealty
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Prophetic Bolt
1 Suffocating Blast
1 Cerebral Vortex
1 Djinn Illuminatus
1 Sunforger
1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
1 Firemane Angel
1 Waves of Aggression
1 Razia's Purification
1 Brightflame
1 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Slave of Bolas
1 Finest Hour
1 Wargate
1 Bant Charm
1 Magister Sphinx
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Enigma Sphinx
1 Charnelhorard Wurm
1 Violent Ultimatum
1 Jund Charm
1 Naya Charm
1 Titanic Ultimatum
1 Realm Razer
1 Wild Research
1 Guided Passage
1 Crime/Punishment
1 Hide/Seek
1 Bound/Determined
1 Horde of Notions
Lands (60)
1 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Academy Ruins
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Strip Mine
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Deserted Temple
1 High Market
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Command Tower
1 Temple of the False Gods
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Krosan Verge
1 Petrified Field
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Vesuva
1 Homeward Path
1 Halimar Depths
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Buried Ruin
1 Teramorphic Expanse
1 Winding Canyons
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Boseiju, Who Shelter's All
Generals (40)
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Wrexial, the Risen Deep
1 Kaervek, the Merciless
1 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
1 Wort, the Raidmother
1 Ulasht, the Hate Seed
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Chorus of the Conclave
1 Hanna, Ship's Navigator
1 Rasputin Dreamweaver
1 Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
1 Teysa, Orzhov Scion
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Nath of the Gilt-Leaf
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1 Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
1 Niv Mizzet, the Firemind
1 Nin, the Pain Artist
1 Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer
1 Brion Stoutarm
1 Sharuum the Hegemon
1 Merike Ri Berit
1 Thraximundar
1 Nicol Bolas
1 Kresh of the Bloodbraided
1 Bartel Runeaxe
1 Mayael the Anima
1 Hazezon Tamar
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Rubinia Soulsinger
1 The Mimeoplasm
1 Damia, Sage of Stone
1 Kaalia of the Vast
1 Tariel, the Reckoner
1 Karador, Ghost Chieftain
1 Ghave, Guru of Spores
1 Zedruu the Greathearted
1 Ruhan of the Fomori
1 Animar, Soul of Elements
1 Riku of Two Reflections
Definitely make suggestions if you see cards missing that you're pretty sure should be there. Try to suggest something to take out for it. I'd like to keep my few cycles intact across all five (Commands, Chancellors, Titans, Praetors, Titans, and one Planeswalker per Color).
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
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We considered having a first pack draft made entirely of legendary creatures, then players would draft the remaining cards and build something for one of their drafted legends. Players would have a handful of drafted legends, so they can draft into different colours based on what's passed to them (to an extent, at least). Then, after the draft is finished, everyone decides which of their legends they'll use to build.
I'd be interested to hear how your development with the project goes.
The Modal Cube is also on Cube Tutor!
GWEDH Asmira's WrathGW
Color identity is part of it, but I also want to avoid the possibility that packs end up entirely or largely a certain color. I guess ideally I would mandate each pack have 1 card of each color and then randomize the other ten, but that's a little harder to assemble packs from. It's a lot easier to shuffle 9 piles of 40 or 80 cards than it is to shuffle one pile of 600 cards, especially if you expect to get a nice distribution of colors throughout. I guess I could deal the first 5 (one of each color, or maybe as many as 8 with one of each color, an artifact, a multicolor, and a land) cards from every pack and then shuffle the rest together and deal the rest out randomly.
I like the thought of being able to draft towards a specific General, or draft a specific set of colors and then go looking for a General.
As for the Generals I'd use, I'm thinking with 40 possible, I'd want to do 2 of each of the 10 3-color pairs, one of each of the 10 2-color pairs, one of each mono, one 5-color, and then four repeat colors for cards I find particularly interesting. Maybe I'd eschew a 5-color to allow for 2 of each mono. Even though mono are pretty bad to draft towards, they fit into the most decks and there's a lot of interesting ones.
Taking suggestions for generals, but I'm thinking:
3-color Enemy: Probably just the 10 Commander ones, since I'm not a fan of Planar Chaos Dragons.
3-color Allied: One Alara, One Legends. Probably Hazezon Tamar, Mayael, the Anima, Thraximundar, Nicol Bolas, Rafiq of the Many, Rubinia Soulsinger, Kresh the Bloodbraided, Bartel Runeaxe, Sharuum the Hegemon, Halfdane
2-colored: (Tentatively) Saffi Eriksdotter, Hanna, Ship's Navigator, Oona, Queen of the Fae, Kaervek the Merciless, Wort, the Raidmother, Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer, Jhoira of the Ghitu, Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Nath of the Gilt-Leaf, Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
Mono: Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker, Godo, Bandit Warlord, Khamal, Fist of Krosa, Omnath, Locus of Mana, Akroma, Angel of Wrath, Eight-and-a-Half-Tails, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, Memnarch, Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, Geth, Lord of the Vault
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
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My gut reaction was having to buy a lot of very expensive cards so that decks are on the same power level (everyone gets a sol ring, mana crypt, mana vault, maze of ith blah blah). If there's only a few of each floating around you could get something super lop sided.
On the other hand the point of the draft is to have to make power level decisions. Passing on a sol ring to get a Rofellos or something.
At the end of the day though you'll want to essentially obtain enough of the best EDH cards out there to make X very good competitive decks. And that's still an expensive task.
EDH:
Currently Piloting:
Dama, Sage of Stone | Karador, Ghost Chieftan | Sigarda, Host of Herons | Elbrus, the Binding Blade / Withengar Unbound | Grand Arbiter Augustin IV | Genju of the Realm | Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
Keep in mind that in typical drafts, each drafter assembles approximately 24 playables excluding lands out of their 45 cards (or 53%). Therefore to scale up to commander, players realistically need to be drafting 39 playables (assuming their land percentage scales accordingly) out of their 75 cards (also assuming a 65 card deck + 1 Commander).
I guess what I am trying to say is that by drafting 75 cards, (as you seem to intend upon), players should be able to get enough playables without fixing packs. This will also encourage better drafting and increased variation between drafts, both positives in my opinion.
Moving forward if you want someone to bounce ideas off of, don't hesitate to shoot me a pm. I may have to look back into this idea myself. Good luck.
EDIT: Something else to consider: I would imagine that you wouldn't want to be drafting the entire cube each time you draft, so may I suggest aiming for a 750-card Cube. I currently have a 450-card Cube and I've found that to be the optimal size for both power-level and desirable variation between drafts. Assuming that percentage scales for this type of Cube, 750 seems right.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
I actually really like this idea and would be interested in starting a Cocktrice playgroup to see the results.
Maybe draft commanders, then do a pack, then draft commanders again? Just a thought.
twitter.com/bccarlso
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
And really, folks, believe me, there's no need to do any kind of card-swapping or whatnot to arrive at a playable (or even terrifyingly powerful) 99. I've seen one, two, three, and five color decks be drafted successfully, so as long as the color balance is good, various archetypes are supported, and you're not padding out your cube with stuff that really doesn't belong in Commander, you should be fine.
EDIT: I just remembered that Sam, the guy who built the cube here in PDX, wrote a post on our blog about it: http://www.onegeneraltorule.com/2011/09/and-then-there-were-56/ Worth a look.
I already have at least one of each of these things. Having multiples doesn't mean that every deck will end up with one, it rather means that there's a shot that one person's deck will end up with several.
I currently have enough of the best EDH cards out there to have 9 very good decks, of varying levels of competitiveness. I'm doing this to cut DOWN on my expense, as this will free up a lot of my multiples.
Probably going to shoot for 600 (which will give me a full set for 8-man draft), may bump up to 750 or 900 eventually. I don't know how often I'll get the full 8 people together.
This I why my original thought was drafting one Commander per pack. Currently not sure how well it will work, but it's worth a shot.
Right. Like I said above, I'm going to aim at making it draftable for 8 people, but I can always size down to 4-6. 4 seems neat as you would then just play with each other.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
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That's the idea. I'm likely also going to have a peripheral set of cards that I wouldn't want included in the cube but would want available for drafting, like all of the 1-drops for my Edric.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
EDIT: Oh, and thanks for the links ^^^ !
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Um, it's EDH.
100 card decks seems excessive for draft.
Well, nothing is stopping you from making it a 60 card singleton cube or somesuch, but it won't be EDH then. I thought drafting a 99 card deck was kind of the point. ::shrug:: Does it take a while to draft? Yeah. Is it worth it? Absolutely.
For one, I don't necessarily see the problem with that since players will have a handful of Generals to work with, not to mention that, for example, the white cards the Sharuum deck is drafting won't necessarily be the same as those that Vish Kal is drafting. Secondly, it's sort of the responsibility of the drafter that if the people to their right and left are visibly encroaching on their colors to switch things up so that they will be able to assemble a deck.
I'm also thinking of excluding all 5-color generals to avoid the possibility of someone ruining the draft by just taking the best card in every pack and undermining everyone else.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
I dunno , I thought drafting a general and building a deck was kinda the point. Guess I was wrong
Not sure if I could handle drafting 100+ cards. EDH games take long enough already!