I read this article on Monday, and I thought it would be interesting to make my own version. Can you please take a look and let me know what you think?
i feel like chandra's phoenix is a really strong card missing from these lists.
all the deck wants to do is draw cards and do damage, but you're also discarding alot so its good to have something to pitch
Geistflame needs to be 4x
Ravings is 4x
I dont know if the deck needs Alchemy, there aren't any bombs so there's no real reason to be digging that far, all you'll hit are more draw spells
Lose the Grudge and the Dragon. Alot of decks dont care about Grudge and the dragon is just bad. You arent playing many dudes at all so you need to max out on removal for the creature matches, then have answers to control and ramp in the board
Shrine of Burning Rage and more red spells will put UB and alot of other control decks in the ground
and id forget the green splash, you really dont need it aside from the flashback on Ancient Grudge out of the board. 1-2 shimmering grotto works for that. The green is just going to be dead vs alot of matches
I think any list running burning vengeance should start with 4 BV and 4 Snapcaster. I lost to a burning vengeance deck earlier on MTGO that ran R/B. I think the Grixis version seems way better. Have you tried dream twist? Early game you dont want to drop a vengeance in the grave but once it sticks you'll be able to mill and deal damage
the base of the mainboard should be as follows for BV:
4x Chandra's Phoenix
4x Desperate Ravings
4x Think Twice/maybe Alchemy, seems too slow though
4x Burning Vengeance
4x Geistflame
3x Slagstorm/or Rolling Temblor, but its alot worse
4x Incinerate
4x Mana Leak
2-4x Dissipate (depends if you wana be heavier on control or damage
1-2x Devil's Play
1-2x Chandra, the Firebrand (she's phenomenal in this deck)
that's basically it, I dont really see the room nor the need for Snapcasters, unless you wanted to replace the Dissipates with Brimstone Volleys for less control n more burn.
the board should look like this:
4x Shrine of Burning Rage
2-3x Ancient Grudge
1x Batterskull (cuz itl own a red deck and its a left-field kind of card)
3-4x Flashfreeze (depends on how many WolfRun variants you expect to see)
1-2x Disperse
1-2x NEgate
Not totally sure of the sideboard cuz i dont know this deck's terrible matches yet, but you probably tailor it to what you need.
The big choice you make is Dissipate or no Dissipate. If anyone drops a titan on you, you can't win. Being able to counter them is a big deal especially vs mana accelerating builds like Flare and WRR/WRW/WRP (P= Pod)
I like the deck though, and its only going to get better come February so its good to be playing it now.
I'm either going to build this or go a little bit bigger n play something close to Chapin's Grixis concoction
Creatures other than Snapcaster should be left out of the main and saved for the sideboard because it's so much better to side them in when you opponent drops their creature removal.
Personally, I really like Delver in the main. He's a great t1 play (the only other is geist/gutshot/galv blast depending on your list) and is good against control decks. Also, I'm a big fan of past in flames as either a 1 or 2 of, because with enough burn in the yard it can be a game-ender.
For the lists running a splash of Green, have you tried out Caravan Vigil? Early game it can set you up into your colors, late game it is practically a free spell if you have killed a creature already.
I think the splash of green provides a lot of strength to the deck by enabling both Ancient Grudge and the Ruinic Repition/Memory's Journey combo. In addition, it allows you to more easily play things like Noxious Revival, which can be great in the deck.
I would also consisder playing Dream Twist, since if used correctly, it is practically card draw and land thinner. It also provides a shuffle effect for Ponder (not actually shuffling, but providing the same benefit).
Personally, I really like Delver in the main. He's a great t1 play (the only other is geist/gutshot/galv blast depending on your list) and is good against control decks. Also, I'm a big fan of past in flames as either a 1 or 2 of, because with enough burn in the yard it can be a game-ender.
Though Delver looks good in a deck packed with Sorceries and Instants, it really isnt the best thing to play in the mainboard. The majority of standard now is aggro variants and control.
Ramp isn't doing as well but its still a strong deck in the right colors. All of those decks run removal.
Chandra's phoenix doesn't much care about removal aside from Celestial Purges out of the board but even then they're wasting it on a phoenix when they need to be killing the BV.
Delver is killed by everything, it's only good the way Wild Nactl is good, in a deck filled with dudes OR a deck filled with countermagic and ways to protect him, like in Legacy.
You're also setting yourself up for some disadvantage by running Slagstorms, which you HAVE to run if you want a chance of beating Tokens or UW Humans.
Delvers not even worth running in the board because against control you're bringing in Shrine, so you need more red spells not less.
If you're really confident in the topdecking of instants and convinced the opponent dumped all their removal then ok, i guess board him in, but I still dont recomend it.
About adding Green, Memory's Journey + Runic Repetition does what exactly? beats around the bush and wastes alot of mana and time without even drawing any cards. If you want to beat control you need Shrines and more Red Spells out of the board like Ancient Grudge in case they bomb in a Witchbane Orb, which would end you.
Green is also messing with your mana base and giving you more dead draws when you need a burn spell or a draw spell or maybe a counterspell.
Those are the only things you want to be drawing.
VS aggro you could try Batterskull since it works well with Chandra's Phoenix and keeps you alive, also its a great mana sink late game.
I've been hearing Dream Twist advocation n I really dont see what it does for you. Yes it puts things in your gy and yes it has flashback but it's not accomplishing anything you want by itself. It's more or less a bad Alchemy, which you dont need cuz you have 8 draw spells with flashback, so 16 draws, 8 of which draw 2. You're seeing alot of cards just from those, you really dont need to mill yourself that badly.
All these odd inclusions need to be in place of something else. What would you take out for this stuff? You need eveything that's in there. I can't even advocate Snapcaster cuz there's just no need. Pretty weird, i know.
Granted, I have not yet played my build, but why is Chandra so good? I dont see any real spell I would want to copy other than card draw (though every card draw spell we are playing is for 1 card so meh) or Devil's play. Other than that she can ping a dude or player (not counting ultimate)? Isnt that what burning vengeance is for?
If you want to play a plainswalker, why not run Jace, Memory Adept? He is additional card draw, and gives you a mill outlet (yourself or them). A cmc of 5 is a bit pricey, but not much more than Chandra.
I have had success with Chandra so far play testing. The double Devils play is great. Or even Incinerate. I may trade for Jace tonight and try that. I would only play him if I used Dream Twkst.
The metamorphs are because I don't have images. I like Sorin's vengeance in this deck as an alt-win condition. I have not play tested much yet, but from what I understand it is a control oriented deck. With the two chandra's I hope to finish off people better, and get more kills in with sorins vengeance. Between snapcasters, vengeance, and chandra, I think its a solid secondary win-con, but testing tonight will push me in the right direction hopefully. Might just be realllly bad, lol. I really like the idea that late game, chandra on the field, every top deck is a potential insta-win (assuming they aren't blue).
The pristine talismans are there to be a recursive sort of life gain effect, help net me the extra turn or two surviving against RDW and other aggro decks that I need to pull it off. It is generally a turn 4 play for me, leaving mana open for a desperate ravings or negate/mana leak/doom blade. Trying hard not to be cute with the deck (probably failing). Not a proactive deck, this is a reactive and control deck that can sometimes whittle them down, and sometimes rage on their face.
I dont know, I think that the talismans could be life savers against all the aggro that has cropped up. Plus they're are added mana (colorless) that could allow us to cast more than one spell per turn... My build is sporting 3 of these suckers at the moment.
That being said, sorin's vengeance: it cost BBB and you only have 8Bmana sources. I know it won't come out until late game, but I still worry that you will need more B mana.
I read this article on Monday, and I thought it would be interesting to make my own version. Can you please take a look and let me know what you think?
3 Snapcaster Mage
Spells:
4 Burning Vengeance
4 Desperate Ravings
1 Devil's Play
1 Disperse
2 Dissipate
4 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Galvanic Blast
4 Geistflame
4 Mana Leak
1 Naturalize
2 Slagstorm
4 Think Twice
3 Drowned Catacomb
1 Hinterland Harbor
8 Island
7 Mountain
1 Rootbound Crag
4 Sulfur Falls
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Brimstone Volley
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Disperse
2 Flashfreeze
1 Memory's Journey
2 Mental Misstep
1 Naturalize
1 Slagstorm
Pauper - 450
EDH
B Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker
How is the mana base working out? I thought about doing 4 colors, but I was pretty worried about getting color screwed.
It hasn't been bad at all. The only problem is that once in a while you may have to play dual tapped.
Pauper - 450
EDH
B Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker
11x Mountain
4x Shimmering Grotto
4x Think Twice
1x Ghost Quarter
4x Mana Leak
2x Dissipate
3x Incinerate
2x Slagstorm
1x Devil's Play
4x Brimstone Volley
4x Forbidden Alchemy
4x Geistflame
4x Burning Vengeance
4x Desperate Ravings
3x Disperse
4x Ancient Grudge
3x Manabarbs
2x Slagstorm
3x Memory's Journey
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Dragonskull Summit
4 Drowned Catacomb
5 Island
4 Mountain
2 Rootbound Crag
1 Shimmering Grotto
3 Sulfur Falls
2 Swamp
// Creatures
1 Moltensteel Dragon
3 Snapcaster Mage
// Spells
1 Ancient Grudge
4 Burning Vengeance
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
3 Desperate Ravings
1 Devil's Play
2 Dissipate
1 Doom Blade
4 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Geistflame
4 Mana Leak
2 Negate
1 Sever the Bloodline
2 Slagstorm
3 Think Twice
1 Tribute to Hunger
1 Beast Within
2 Delver of Secrets
1 Devil's Play
1 Disperse
2 Flashfreeze
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Geistflame
1 Memory's Journey
2 Sensory Deprivation
1 Slagstorm
1 Tribute to Hunger
1 Wurmcoil Engine
I can deck tag soon. Using my phone.
all the deck wants to do is draw cards and do damage, but you're also discarding alot so its good to have something to pitch
Geistflame needs to be 4x
Ravings is 4x
I dont know if the deck needs Alchemy, there aren't any bombs so there's no real reason to be digging that far, all you'll hit are more draw spells
Lose the Grudge and the Dragon. Alot of decks dont care about Grudge and the dragon is just bad. You arent playing many dudes at all so you need to max out on removal for the creature matches, then have answers to control and ramp in the board
Shrine of Burning Rage and more red spells will put UB and alot of other control decks in the ground
and id forget the green splash, you really dont need it aside from the flashback on Ancient Grudge out of the board. 1-2 shimmering grotto works for that. The green is just going to be dead vs alot of matches
XXXX
Modern
URTwinRU R.I.P.
EDH
WUGRoon of the Hidden RealmWUG
4x Chandra's Phoenix
4x Desperate Ravings
4x Think Twice/maybe Alchemy, seems too slow though
4x Burning Vengeance
4x Geistflame
3x Slagstorm/or Rolling Temblor, but its alot worse
4x Incinerate
4x Mana Leak
2-4x Dissipate (depends if you wana be heavier on control or damage
1-2x Devil's Play
1-2x Chandra, the Firebrand (she's phenomenal in this deck)
that's basically it, I dont really see the room nor the need for Snapcasters, unless you wanted to replace the Dissipates with Brimstone Volleys for less control n more burn.
the board should look like this:
4x Shrine of Burning Rage
2-3x Ancient Grudge
1x Batterskull (cuz itl own a red deck and its a left-field kind of card)
3-4x Flashfreeze (depends on how many WolfRun variants you expect to see)
1-2x Disperse
1-2x NEgate
Not totally sure of the sideboard cuz i dont know this deck's terrible matches yet, but you probably tailor it to what you need.
The big choice you make is Dissipate or no Dissipate. If anyone drops a titan on you, you can't win. Being able to counter them is a big deal especially vs mana accelerating builds like Flare and WRR/WRW/WRP (P= Pod)
I like the deck though, and its only going to get better come February so its good to be playing it now.
I'm either going to build this or go a little bit bigger n play something close to Chapin's Grixis concoction
Pauper - 450
EDH
B Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker
I think the splash of green provides a lot of strength to the deck by enabling both Ancient Grudge and the Ruinic Repition/Memory's Journey combo. In addition, it allows you to more easily play things like Noxious Revival, which can be great in the deck.
I would also consisder playing Dream Twist, since if used correctly, it is practically card draw and land thinner. It also provides a shuffle effect for Ponder (not actually shuffling, but providing the same benefit).
Though Delver looks good in a deck packed with Sorceries and Instants, it really isnt the best thing to play in the mainboard. The majority of standard now is aggro variants and control.
Ramp isn't doing as well but its still a strong deck in the right colors. All of those decks run removal.
Chandra's phoenix doesn't much care about removal aside from Celestial Purges out of the board but even then they're wasting it on a phoenix when they need to be killing the BV.
Delver is killed by everything, it's only good the way Wild Nactl is good, in a deck filled with dudes OR a deck filled with countermagic and ways to protect him, like in Legacy.
You're also setting yourself up for some disadvantage by running Slagstorms, which you HAVE to run if you want a chance of beating Tokens or UW Humans.
Delvers not even worth running in the board because against control you're bringing in Shrine, so you need more red spells not less.
If you're really confident in the topdecking of instants and convinced the opponent dumped all their removal then ok, i guess board him in, but I still dont recomend it.
About adding Green, Memory's Journey + Runic Repetition does what exactly? beats around the bush and wastes alot of mana and time without even drawing any cards. If you want to beat control you need Shrines and more Red Spells out of the board like Ancient Grudge in case they bomb in a Witchbane Orb, which would end you.
Green is also messing with your mana base and giving you more dead draws when you need a burn spell or a draw spell or maybe a counterspell.
Those are the only things you want to be drawing.
VS aggro you could try Batterskull since it works well with Chandra's Phoenix and keeps you alive, also its a great mana sink late game.
I've been hearing Dream Twist advocation n I really dont see what it does for you. Yes it puts things in your gy and yes it has flashback but it's not accomplishing anything you want by itself. It's more or less a bad Alchemy, which you dont need cuz you have 8 draw spells with flashback, so 16 draws, 8 of which draw 2. You're seeing alot of cards just from those, you really dont need to mill yourself that badly.
All these odd inclusions need to be in place of something else. What would you take out for this stuff? You need eveything that's in there. I can't even advocate Snapcaster cuz there's just no need. Pretty weird, i know.
Granted, I have not yet played my build, but why is Chandra so good? I dont see any real spell I would want to copy other than card draw (though every card draw spell we are playing is for 1 card so meh) or Devil's play. Other than that she can ping a dude or player (not counting ultimate)? Isnt that what burning vengeance is for?
If you want to play a plainswalker, why not run Jace, Memory Adept? He is additional card draw, and gives you a mill outlet (yourself or them). A cmc of 5 is a bit pricey, but not much more than Chandra.
Gasp!!!
EDH:▼
(links to 3D generals)
Playing: Designing:
Retired:
6 Island
2 Swamp
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Drowned Catacomb
3 Copperline Gorge
3 Hinterland Harbor
1 Shimmering Grotto
Creatures:
4 Snapcaster Mage
Spells:
4 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Sorin's Vengeance
2 Doom Blade
4 Burning Vengeance
3 Desperate Ravings
3 Mana Leak
3 Pristine Talisman
3 Geistflame
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Dissipate
2 Negate
2 Chandra, the Firebrand
2 Slagstorm
1 Geistflame
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Shrine of Burning Rage
2 Flashfreeze
2 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Black Sun's Zenith
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
The metamorphs are because I don't have images. I like Sorin's vengeance in this deck as an alt-win condition. I have not play tested much yet, but from what I understand it is a control oriented deck. With the two chandra's I hope to finish off people better, and get more kills in with sorins vengeance. Between snapcasters, vengeance, and chandra, I think its a solid secondary win-con, but testing tonight will push me in the right direction hopefully. Might just be realllly bad, lol. I really like the idea that late game, chandra on the field, every top deck is a potential insta-win (assuming they aren't blue).
The pristine talismans are there to be a recursive sort of life gain effect, help net me the extra turn or two surviving against RDW and other aggro decks that I need to pull it off. It is generally a turn 4 play for me, leaving mana open for a desperate ravings or negate/mana leak/doom blade. Trying hard not to be cute with the deck (probably failing). Not a proactive deck, this is a reactive and control deck that can sometimes whittle them down, and sometimes rage on their face.
Card's on bench for potential in this deck:
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My Trading Thread
That being said, sorin's vengeance: it cost BBB and you only have 8Bmana sources. I know it won't come out until late game, but I still worry that you will need more B mana.
EDH:▼
(links to 3D generals)
Playing: Designing:
Retired: