I am kinda meh on Remand. Unless you absolutely need to dig out your win condition now, its pretty much not doing much of anything. Even then, you are still waiting for your opponent to play a spell just so you can use it. If you are lucky, you can delay your opponent a turn. Lots of time I see it played and I am like "oh well, now they are tapped out and I can still play this spell, or play that other spell that I was planning on playing anyway."There have been a number of times Ive seen it played it with little to no impact on the other player's game plan.
So whats the big deal with Remand, and why are people still calling it a must have for blue control?
It's some pretty spicy tech versus Living End. I also wouldn't be 100% embarrassed to play it against a Seething Song or similar (provided they can't instantly recast), since it's effectively mana denial at that point.
Otherwise, it's a Time Walk for tempo, +1 card. Since there isn't really a tempo deck established in the format yet, I'm surprised that people think it's good enough to play.
Basically the higher the CMC card countered with Remand, the more devastating it is. I don't think it's that great in the current meta but if you like say counter a 4 mana Elspeth from control that has no other board presence, it's essentially a time walk. I mean that being said, it's terrible against stuff like Bloodbraid Elf and doesn't really affect aggro too much so I don't think it's great in the current meta.
It's one of my go-to counters in Combo decks. Otherwise, it is relatively meh.
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Its a must for tempo type control decks. Not so much for draw go control. Really depends on which type of control you are playing if it is a must have.
If they tap out for something and you Remand it, you're spending 1U to get an extra turn before they do whatever it was they were going to do. Sound familiar?
It's also great against opposing counters if they don't have enough mana to recast immediately, can be just as effective as a normal counterspell at disrupting someone in the middle of comboing off, and in the worst case scenario, you can just cycle it to make your opponent tap some extra lands, assuming they're playing spells reasonably often. (If they're not, you're probably doing okay.)
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Because it is only a temporary solution, it doesn't fit in Teachings and not so well in Gifts, and I am a bit surprised whenever I see Remand in either of those decks. In tempo (and some combo) decks, though, Remand shoves your opponent back a turn while handing you gas. Exarch Twin can probably afford to simply buy time, and this is almost the perfect counterspell for Pyromancer Ascension, which needs an enormous amount of gas.
Remanding your own Grapeshot is also pretty fun. You get to cast it again afterwards and make up the remaining damage.
The more popular Snapcaster Mage gets, though, the more Remand's value will go up, as Remand is practically a 2-mana Dismiss against any flashed-back spell. (So I can't Remand my own flashed-back Grapeshot profitably in UR Storm. Well, with that knowledge, it's time to ruin everyone who plays Tiago.)
Come to think of it, UR Storm may be hampered more by having its first rituals and Past in Flames countered, but getting its flashed-back stuff countered by Remand is just cruel.
Basically the higher the CMC card countered with Remand, the more devastating it is. I don't think it's that great in the current meta but if you like say counter a 4 mana Elspeth from control that has no other board presence, it's essentially a time walk. I mean that being said, it's terrible against stuff like Bloodbraid Elf and doesn't really affect aggro too much so I don't think it's great in the current meta.
this
it's the same thing that chapin said about the card. remand is a tempo card that is really only costing your opponent mana (you as well). so if you are using it on cards >3 you are gaining tempo. less than 3 and you are losing tempo.
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Because it is only a temporary solution, it doesn't fit in Teachings and not so well in Gifts, and I am a bit surprised whenever I see Remand in either of those decks. In tempo (and some combo) decks, though, Remand shoves your opponent back a turn while handing you gas. Exarch Twin can probably afford to simply buy time, and this is almost the perfect counterspell for Pyromancer Ascension, which needs an enormous amount of gas.
Remanding your own Grapeshot is also pretty fun. You get to cast it again afterwards and make up the remaining damage.
The more popular Snapcaster Mage gets, though, the more Remand's value will go up, as Remand is practically a 2-mana Dismiss against any flashed-back spell. (So I can't Remand my own flashed-back Grapeshot profitably in UR Storm. Well, with that knowledge, it's time to ruin everyone who plays Tiago.)
Come to think of it, UR Storm may be hampered more by having its first rituals and Past in Flames countered, but getting its flashed-back stuff countered by Remand is just cruel.
Remand saw a lot of action in old teachings decks. It was the 'counter' spell of choice in the old meta. I think it has a place as a 1 or 2 of in Modern builds.
Tho Snappy does make you have to rethink what you run and side.
I don't believe in 'must-have' counterspells. It's the metagame that really determines where a counterspell's power level lies. After all, you are playing countermagic because you desire to stop your opponent's spells. That means the spells in the format are paramount to the countermagic you use.
That being said, it's easy to overlook the power level of Remand because there are a lot of subtle factors that play into the card.
First of all, it's a hard counter. Regardless of where it puts the targetted spell, Remand does say 'counter target spell' on it, and it is a 1-for-1. Unlike conditional countermagic (Negate, Spell Snare, etc) and soft countermagic (Mana Leak, Spell Pierce, Rune Snag, etc), it simply doesn't care. It always does the same thing: bounce the spell and draw a card. This often combines well with soft counters in the mid- to late-game, since you can Remand your opponent's spell, then Mana Leak it when he tries it again with less mana at his disposal.
Second, playing Remand fixes deckbuilding problems. Any time you introduce a cantrip into your deck, you are giving it a stronger ability to cycle through itself. In a sense, Remand does a similar job to that of Preordain--it will, in a tempo-efficient manner, dig you into what you need. This means you can use Remand to compliment your countermagic suite, to fill some of the gap where you would otherwise need more draw spells/cantrips, and to shave down the land count by 1 or 2 (based upon the more compact deck size and the higher ability to find those land drops). Remand will dig you out of holes and find solutions, just like any other spell that says the magic words "Draw a card."
Third, Remand is great against flashback spells because it's literally a 2-mana Dismiss. This is pretty simple, and has already been mentioned here--but people still forget about it.
Fourth, Remand is really, really good against other graveyard-type spells, especially dredge cards. It can be very annoying when your opponent runs a Loam out there, and you know you have to counter it--but you're still putting it right into your opponent's graveyard, allowing him to start/continue dredging. If you Remand the Loam, it goes back in his hand--which is less dangerous for you. You're trading 2-mana for 2-mana and slowing down your opponent's engine, and this is of cataclysmic importance when you play against decks like UGx Gifts, UGx Tron, or Loam Rock. Beyond that, think about the fact that it is better to Remand a Vengevine or Bloodghast than it is to use a regular counterspell on one of those creatures.
Fifth, if you are in a stack war, Remanding your own spell is a 2-for-1. Let's say you EoT play a draw spell with 1U open. Your opponent counters it. If you Remand his counterspell, he could just use it again. But, if you Remand your own spell, you get the draw spell back and draw a card--and your opponent loses his counterspell permanently. The same goes for when your opponent counters your Seething Song and you Remand the Song back to your hand because he has enough mana to recast his counter.
Sixth, if you know what you're doing, you can get 2-for-1s and sometimes 3-for-1s out of countermagic when you're playing against storm combo. Remand is no exception to this. Let's say your opponent plays a Desperate Ritual and then a Seething Song. You Remand the Song, and you're up a card. How did this happen? Well, your opponent is out a ritual and you Remand replaced itself. Sure, he still has his Song, but that's one ritual down and one less card in his hand (for the sake of storm count). You wouldn't believe how often a timely Remand can stop a big storm turn and put you far ahead. As long as you're not the guy wasting Remands on the first ritual (unless it's necessary), you're probably going to profit from using Remand against Storm.
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I'm confused about your explanation for using Remand against Storm. Even if you counter the spell, the spell still adds to the Storm count. In your example, remanding Seething Song puts it back in the owner's hand, but the Storm count for that turn is 3 (Desperate Ritual, Seething Song, Remand).
Sixth, if you know what you're doing, you can get 2-for-1s and sometimes 3-for-1s out of countermagic when you're playing against storm combo. Remand is no exception to this. Let's say your opponent plays a Desperate Ritual and then a Seething Song. You Remand the Song, and you're up a card. How did this happen? Well, your opponent is out a ritual and you Remand replaced itself. Sure, he still has his Song, but that's one ritual down and one less card in his hand (for the sake of storm count). You wouldn't believe how often a timely Remand can stop a big storm turn and put you far ahead. As long as you're not the guy wasting Remands on the first ritual (unless it's necessary), you're probably going to profit from using Remand against Storm.
I probably should have been more specific, but I have limits when I write a couple hundred words about MTG, for free, for recreation. The point is that you're using Remand to stop a combo turn when your opponent goes off on 2-3 lands, and then goes Desperate Rit-->Seething Song right into your Remand. That leaves him with 0-1 mana left in his pool, and that's not enough to keep going. The storm count is only relevant if your opponent can actually cast those storm spells in the first place.
Past in Flames storm is pretty weak to a properly placed counterspell since often, they only have 2-3 mana after casting Past in Flames and will sputter out if you counter a key spell.
I probably should have been more specific, but I have limits when I write a couple hundred words about MTG, for free, for recreation. The point is that you're using Remand to stop a combo turn when your opponent goes off on 2-3 lands, and then goes Desperate Rit-->Seething Song right into your Remand. That leaves him with 0-1 mana left in his pool, and that's not enough to keep going. The storm count is only relevant if your opponent can actually cast those storm spells in the first place.
Thanks for the clarification. Stopping the opponent from combo-ing off that turn is certainly important. I was only looking at the Storm count.
Fifth, if you are in a stack war, Remanding your own spell is a 2-for-1. Let's say you EoT play a draw spell with 1U open. Your opponent counters it. If you Remand his counterspell, he could just use it again. But, if you Remand your own spell, you get the draw spell back and draw a card--and your opponent loses his counterspell permanently. The same goes for when your opponent counters your Seething Song and you Remand the Song back to your hand because he has enough mana to recast his counter.
I gotta admit, I never thought of this. Guess that is why I am a decent player, but not a great player. TY
I'm confused about your explanation for using Remand against Storm. Even if you counter the spell, the spell still adds to the Storm count. In your example, remanding Seething Song puts it back in the owner's hand, but the Storm count for that turn is 3 (Desperate Ritual, Seething Song, Remand).
But, they're down three mana, which, if you counter the right ritual, can stop them in their tracks.
Edit: I really should look at the page count before responding.
remand is kind of in a bad place for modern. Just about every deck in the format runs an extremely low mana curve which weakens remand a lot.(especially on the draw)
For most intents and purposes I would rather have mana leak.
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I was going to comment here, but i-never-smile said everything I was going to say and a bit more. I played Remand when it was legal in Standard for as long as possible. It is one of the most subtle and powerful counter spells ever printed, all the more so because of its extremely flexible mana cost. I tend to vary my Remands and my Mana leaks in any Blue-ish control or midrange decks I have brewed for the format, since leaning hard on one of the other often makes you weaker against a diverse field. The banning of Nacatl and the likely hood of more decks emerging in the format that are nor solely composed of 1 and 2 mana creatures will only increase the card's play value.
So whats the big deal with Remand, and why are people still calling it a must have for blue control?
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Otherwise, it's a Time Walk for tempo, +1 card. Since there isn't really a tempo deck established in the format yet, I'm surprised that people think it's good enough to play.
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It's also great against opposing counters if they don't have enough mana to recast immediately, can be just as effective as a normal counterspell at disrupting someone in the middle of comboing off, and in the worst case scenario, you can just cycle it to make your opponent tap some extra lands, assuming they're playing spells reasonably often. (If they're not, you're probably doing okay.)
Remanding your own Grapeshot is also pretty fun. You get to cast it again afterwards and make up the remaining damage.
The more popular Snapcaster Mage gets, though, the more Remand's value will go up, as Remand is practically a 2-mana Dismiss against any flashed-back spell. (So I can't Remand my own flashed-back Grapeshot profitably in UR Storm. Well, with that knowledge, it's time to ruin everyone who plays Tiago.)
Come to think of it, UR Storm may be hampered more by having its first rituals and Past in Flames countered, but getting its flashed-back stuff countered by Remand is just cruel.
this
it's the same thing that chapin said about the card. remand is a tempo card that is really only costing your opponent mana (you as well). so if you are using it on cards >3 you are gaining tempo. less than 3 and you are losing tempo.
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Remand saw a lot of action in old teachings decks. It was the 'counter' spell of choice in the old meta. I think it has a place as a 1 or 2 of in Modern builds.
Tho Snappy does make you have to rethink what you run and side.
That being said, it's easy to overlook the power level of Remand because there are a lot of subtle factors that play into the card.
First of all, it's a hard counter. Regardless of where it puts the targetted spell, Remand does say 'counter target spell' on it, and it is a 1-for-1. Unlike conditional countermagic (Negate, Spell Snare, etc) and soft countermagic (Mana Leak, Spell Pierce, Rune Snag, etc), it simply doesn't care. It always does the same thing: bounce the spell and draw a card. This often combines well with soft counters in the mid- to late-game, since you can Remand your opponent's spell, then Mana Leak it when he tries it again with less mana at his disposal.
Second, playing Remand fixes deckbuilding problems. Any time you introduce a cantrip into your deck, you are giving it a stronger ability to cycle through itself. In a sense, Remand does a similar job to that of Preordain--it will, in a tempo-efficient manner, dig you into what you need. This means you can use Remand to compliment your countermagic suite, to fill some of the gap where you would otherwise need more draw spells/cantrips, and to shave down the land count by 1 or 2 (based upon the more compact deck size and the higher ability to find those land drops). Remand will dig you out of holes and find solutions, just like any other spell that says the magic words "Draw a card."
Third, Remand is great against flashback spells because it's literally a 2-mana Dismiss. This is pretty simple, and has already been mentioned here--but people still forget about it.
Fourth, Remand is really, really good against other graveyard-type spells, especially dredge cards. It can be very annoying when your opponent runs a Loam out there, and you know you have to counter it--but you're still putting it right into your opponent's graveyard, allowing him to start/continue dredging. If you Remand the Loam, it goes back in his hand--which is less dangerous for you. You're trading 2-mana for 2-mana and slowing down your opponent's engine, and this is of cataclysmic importance when you play against decks like UGx Gifts, UGx Tron, or Loam Rock. Beyond that, think about the fact that it is better to Remand a Vengevine or Bloodghast than it is to use a regular counterspell on one of those creatures.
Fifth, if you are in a stack war, Remanding your own spell is a 2-for-1. Let's say you EoT play a draw spell with 1U open. Your opponent counters it. If you Remand his counterspell, he could just use it again. But, if you Remand your own spell, you get the draw spell back and draw a card--and your opponent loses his counterspell permanently. The same goes for when your opponent counters your Seething Song and you Remand the Song back to your hand because he has enough mana to recast his counter.
Sixth, if you know what you're doing, you can get 2-for-1s and sometimes 3-for-1s out of countermagic when you're playing against storm combo. Remand is no exception to this. Let's say your opponent plays a Desperate Ritual and then a Seething Song. You Remand the Song, and you're up a card. How did this happen? Well, your opponent is out a ritual and you Remand replaced itself. Sure, he still has his Song, but that's one ritual down and one less card in his hand (for the sake of storm count). You wouldn't believe how often a timely Remand can stop a big storm turn and put you far ahead. As long as you're not the guy wasting Remands on the first ritual (unless it's necessary), you're probably going to profit from using Remand against Storm.
I'm not even playing blue right now, but I thought this would be worth discussing.
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Thanks for the clarification. Stopping the opponent from combo-ing off that turn is certainly important. I was only looking at the Storm count.
Great analysis on how Remand works.
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But, they're down three mana, which, if you counter the right ritual, can stop them in their tracks.
Edit: I really should look at the page count before responding.
For most intents and purposes I would rather have mana leak.
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