Well it looks like pauper EDH is off to a great start so far in my group. A quick rundown on what we are doing currently:
- Commander can be a common / uncommon creature. Legendary is not required.
- Only commons can make up the 99 cards. Any card that ever was printed as common is allowed.
I really like this guy as there aren't much for options to go 5 color. I wasnt even originally looking for a 5c commander when I stumbled across him but the more I thought about him the more I liked him. I am purposely skimping on red in this list as I only have a handful of cards utilizing red which I did on purpose to try to help fix for the other colors. The ability to have a BSA in pauper EDH with other uncommon creatures sitting around is going to be amazing.
I have made a lot of modifications to my list since creating it however a lot of the getting started ideas came off of Dosu's Pauper Child build. Due to that I might have a little more rez than is really needed for this list in comparison to how many creatures I have. I am getting the list sleeved up here and I have the cards ordered for it. Soon enough I will be playing the list.
Thanks for the support I have received so far I have really had a blast building these pauper lists.
I have been doing a lot more searching for this list trying to find cards to improve it. The changes I have going in for right now are as follows:
ADDS: Stinkweed Imp my flying defenses are less than stellar as I was hoping to just dominate with my commander however I think it is important to have this guy in due to his dredge option to come back. People really dont like swinging into him and I think I can use that to my advantage.
Faith's Fetters another great multipurpose removal / lockdown effect. I like how I can lock opposing commanders in play while being unusable. This often forces opponents to utilize removal on their own creatures so that they can recast them.
Shred Memory this is a strict swap in for Dimir Infiltrator. The transmute at 2 mana is a good one for this list. I just dont see ever needing the creature itself out of the Infiltrator. It is nice that I can pick him back up with grave rez but unfortunately I think Shred Memory is a more usable card for what the card actually does so I am going with it currently. I can always swap back but for now I like the idea of the memory more than the infiltrator.
Resounding Silence Remove 2 attacking creatures at instant speed and draw a card and it cant be countered by like anything in pauper... this sounds amazing I want to give it a shot. I cant think of much of anything that would give me problems from a blocking perspective especially considering if the game goes long enough I could potentially double buff my commander. This should help me cover my defenses quite nicely.
Elven Cache pauper regrowth effect. It isnt cheap to cast but this deck looks like it will ramp fairly good so I think I can get by with paying 4 to regain any card from my graveyard.
Syphon Mind basic draw effect that punishes opponents as well. I like how it draws me 3 cards for 4 mana in a standard 4 way game.
Rampant Growth fast easy ramp. Normally I would be using Farseek but I realized it is strictly worse than Rampant in Pauper as there are no dual lands I can target.
Cuts: Counterspell it has its place however I have a lot of good spells and I dont like how this is UU to cast and I have to preemptively deal with things. Sometimes it is better to see where threats go and deal with them then. I just noticed that my list felt a little heavy on counters and so I think I am going to cut back a bit and use some other removal for now. I just dont see the need as much to run counters when there just isnt much of anything for big combos I need to break up.
Faerie Trickery same problem as above. It is more expensive as well but exiling is nice. I just dont want to load up too much on counters so I will cut back for now and see how it runs with less.
Kitesail I realized that this just felt sort of gimp... Not bad if I need evasion for my creatures or help blocking however I think I am ok on those departments.
Bonesplitter a little attack power buff but I don't see where I would really need this... These equipment feel so much weaker in pauper and my commander is plenty strong enough already when he swings in.
Dimir Infiltrator made the swap out with Shred Memory due to the better utility of the effect. The ability to rez the Infiltrator is a bit stronger in this list but for now I will see how the swap goes. Never know when you need some grave hate.
Pilgrim's Eye sort of felt like a bit of a lackluster land fixing. I have much better in here already and I just didnt like this card unless I really need to fix my manabase.
Tilling Treefolk best case scenario I find a few of the Panorama / Terramorphic Expanse / Evolving Wilds out of this guy. Land destruction is much lighter in pauper as there are no lands that can strip others and there are almost no utility lands to speak of. So out of the deck I have 7 cards that have much of an interaction with this guy and he only brings them back to hand.... well I might as well just run a ramp effect in his place and call it a day...
Well that is all of the changes I have for now. I will keep playing with the list a bit and see if I cant move anything else around. I wouldn't mind some feedback if anyone has any experience with a list similar to this I wouldn't mind hearing it.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Pestilence my big concern about it currently is that it like totally takes out all of my guys at 2 damage. My commander could live through it but only if I have him buffed up which would require 8 mana and BBB to achieve. It might still be worth running even then but I have my concerns. Currently Rolling Thunder is sort of my go to for a wrath in the list as I can make it one sided. Pestilence probably deserves a spot in the list though it just feels really heavy on the black requirement to be in a 5c pauper list. Evincar's Justice could also work however I think Pestilance is better due to the fact of how it can do more than 2 damage at a time and work at instant speed as well. I will have to figure out something to cut for it...
Blastoderm I considered running more fatty dudes but I think for now I will just focus on my commander being my wincon and see how that pans out. There are several big wurm type of guys as well as Eldrazi which I could run if I was so inclined however I think keeping the utility and card draw high is a better tactic currently.
kor cartografer only fetches a plains and there are no pauper dual lands fetchable by this. Ondu Giant is better than the Cartografer due to this as well as having a bigger body to him. Even then Ondu Giant isnt anywhere near making the list.
Wood Elves considered him and believe me I do like my Wood Elves but since there are no dual lands and he only fetches a forest I found it a bit restrictive for my ramp needs. I am running a 5 color deck here and fetching a forest specific style of land ramp is too narrow.
I will see if I can find some room to include Pestilence... I just don't know what I will cut as of right now.
EDIT: Cutting Rampant Growth for Pestilence. I don't really care much for Rampant Growth all in all and it feels smaller and less significant than my other ramp / fixing in this deck. If I draw it late it is much less impressive.
I'm happy that my playgroup is not the only one playing pauper with an uncommon as a general.
I also have the idea of building a 5 color deck and Paragon of the Amesha was one of the generals I considered, but I'll rather play Fleshformer. Removing enemy generals and utility creatures seems stronger to me.
A guy from our playgroup is using Dimir Guildmage as general and owns everyone else. One of the neat plays is transmuting the Infiltrator to get him back with disturbed burial.
I belive Crypt Rats and Pestilence are more effective with a lot of black mana sources and graveyard recursion, so I wouldn't put them in.
There is Sprout Swarm in green. It can win a game if it's not countered. Cephalid Scout and Soldevi Sage can turn your lands into cards once you have enough of them. A late ramp spell will still be useful then, plus they synergize with Tilling Treefolk.
Have you played this list yet? Do you get color screwed playing 5 colors with your landbase? No offense, I'm just curious. Rupture Spire, Command Tower and Shimmering Grotto are great! I haven't thought about them.
My original idea was to focus on GUB; something like "ramp, draw, bash". I think I'll put in more creatures to get value out of the graveyard recursion. I'll also put in Arbor Elf, Krosan Restorer, Stone-Seeder Hierophant and Tidewater Minion with Freed from the Real for infinite mana.
You seem to dislike combo? That's what I deducted from your Izzet Guildmage post. That's another general I tested =)
I actually did not know about Fleshformer when I was building this list. However I am a big sucker for playing white and Baneslayer Angel was a ton of fun back in M10 and I love the idea of sort of playing it as my commander in a pauper game so I think I will stick with Paragon. I agree that the utility of killing creatures with Fleshformer is sort of nice however paying 5 mana one of each color for -2/-2 really isnt impressive in my mind and the buff he recieves doesnt feel powerful enough on its own to just swing in with a single buff usually. The restriction of activating it only on your turn also doesnt really enthuse me... It might just be a playstyle preference but I am going to stick to Paragon of the Amesha.
Rush of Knowledge - I only have 10 permenants above 3 mana in this deck. Of which I dont really ever plan on playing a 6+ mana permenant in this list so it really isnt too impressive for me. I think it will draw me like 2-3 cards too often for me to be willing to pay 5 mana for this.
Rite of Replenishment - whatever card you meant to link this is too far off from it. I couldn't guess as to what card you actually meant.
Mysteries of the Deep - I did actually consider running this card however the landfall at instant speed is sort of a pain in the ass. I can still pull it off with all of the fetches in here but I usually just see it as a sorcery speed pain in the ass. Divination draws 2 for 3 mana which is a lot faster and just cheaper to cast / deal with. I am not dismissing it entirely I just feel like it is sort of more expensive than it is worth at face value.
Dimir Infiltrator while I took him out in my last change it was to bring in Shred Memory. They are both similar in the fact that I am assuming I will be transmuting them most of the time. The infiltrator is nice as it can be rezed by creature rez however I dont see myself ever utilizing him as a creature. I like Shread Memory as I can actually see myself casting the card to hate on a graveyard. I think they could likely both be used in the deck however as of right now when I was picking one or the other I just saw the Shred Memory as being more usable. The Infiltrator is easier to abuse and recur though. I have a feeling I will have to play with this a bit to figure out what I really want it to be.
Okiba-Gang Shinobi I am running a bit more creature light so I dont know... He has potential but I have never much liked hand discard in multiplayer. This only hits one opponent and I have never been too fond of that personally.
Urborg Uprising hey that is nice... if I bring up my creature curve this is something I would definitely look into. I just don't know if I have a high enough creature curve to use something like this currently.
Pestilence .... I go back and forth on the card non stop. I have a feeling you might be right on having some issues with it. It can be really hard to generate the kind of black mana needed to make it work. As of right now I think I might be looking to pull it back out... It really hurts my guys a lot as well but it is a board wipe. I dont know if I can do enough damage to take out some of the bigger things though... I might be better with just using Swirling Sandstorm in its place... I think I might make that swap as I can much easier manage 4 mana with a single red than I can hitting the black mana multiple times in one turn.
Sprout Swarm that could be a good alternate wincon... I will put it in the consideration section for now. I could see it being a positive card to include in the list though.
Cephalid Scout and Soldevi Sage they arent bad but honestly I would usually rather find ways to mana dump rather than sacrifice manabase late in the game. They are interesting but I would usually rather just use a looter creature than give up my lands.
This list is still just a digital copy. I am working on setting it up the way I want it and sleeving it up when I get a chance to look through my collection for everything. I will post more on mana issues later when I get a chance but as of right now I feel optimistic on my mana base working out. If it gives me issues I might do a little bit of adjusting to allow for more colorless fixing but I have yet to figure that out.
You are correct about me not liking infinite combo effects. Generally speaking they use cards that are not good on their own and I really dislike drawing a card that is a blank until I can assemble the other pieces. I also don't get much thrill out of just doing nothing then suddenly declaring myself the victor. The closest thing to a combo deck that I have enjoyed playing is my Marton Stromgald list which goes from no threats to killing everyone in one turn more often than not.
I like my Izzet deck but I only just finished it last weekend and got it sleeved up for 2 games now. I am really enjoying the pauper and the new commander options though. I look forward to this deck as well as it seems like it will be a ton of fun.
Changes for now: Pestilence -> Swirling Sandstorm it still gives me a wrath option I just think I am going to have trouble with Pestilence in a 5 color deck with having enough black mana to use it properly. The Sandstorm will be easier to keep my commander alive through it as well as hitting 9 mana and 2 red sources seems more easily done. It also feels like it will be better at sweeping things up.
What about Harrow to help fix getting the colors you may need?
Good call... I didn't really think about it beforehand but that definitely should go into consideration. That is a really solid fix option. I might have to look at some of my ramp options to see if this should replace one of them. The downside is that it only bumps me up a single land so that is unfortunate however it does do good for being cheap to multitask. Into the consideration for now.
EDIT: I went ahead and ran the deckstats for the list. It can be found here. I realized that I had too many white sources in comparison to how much white I was running so I cut a Plains for an Island as I have a ton of blue and I didn't have enough support for it. I ran a bunch of sample hands and I was quite pleased. I did some test partial mulligans and I do have to say having transmute cards in an opening hand is sort of bad... Getting the 2 mana of one color to transmute them off is really harsh... Other than that though I didn't see much of an issue with the manabase as I was able to fix it outside of that with a Partial Paris mulligan each time. I will go ahead and put a link to the deckstats under the decklist as well.
Dragonsoul Knight is interesting... but honestly I don't think trying to push a faster clock is the way to go here. I think he would draw the hate of like everyone at the table due to how hard he hits. I would rather control the board and or gain life over trying for the fast clock. He is interesting though but not quite what I was looking for.
Train of Thought it is a good card but I worry about being able to produce enough blue to really get much out of it. This is a 5 color deck and I would be surprised to have 3+ islands in play at a time although I do have some ability to filter and produce multiple colors in the list... At first glance I dismissed it due to what I thought would be a problem to produce blue mana... I will keep an eye on it as I think I can get a few games in tonight and I will let you know more then. Until then I have yet to run the list though and this spell is a bit blue hungry. I do like the spell though and it does good in my Izzet.
Ya I know... that is sort of the reason Divination isnt in the list currently. Out of those cards you mentioned I might be interested in running Impaler Shrike... I do have a good bit of creature rez and abusing it to draw cards over and over would be really nice... Generally speaking though a lot of the cards that you draw a card on connecting to a player stuff doesnt work more than a turn. After that people are dropping more blocks and trying to answer that creature. I find that the looters are a bit more powerful than the strict draw a card guys as you can utilize them for more than a card and draw less hate.
As for mana dumping... I have a few ways already. There is always buffing my commander extra times for more power and life. Beyond that there are the few buyback spells and I am still strongly considering Sprout Swarm still for a good mana dump. I am not too concerned about it as of right now. I did look at the invokers and Dawnglare Invoker and Smokespew Invoker are probably my favorites of them however they are so costly to do anything with that I am sort of meh on them as of right now.
The land enchants are alright... but it does set you up to be 2 for 1ed again... I am mostly happy with my land ramping as of right now and I think I will stick to it for now.
Oona's Grace just doesn't pay out big enough in my mind. It starts out paying 3 mana for a single card then it just lets you cycle lands for 3 mana afterwards??? That feels too slow in my mind.
Crop Rotation is good but we dont have any powerhouse lands in here. I guess best case scenario you tutor up a fix all style of land but I dont like how I give up a card and dont actually get another land in play. This sort of card is better when you cycle a land and get Gaea's Cradle. I would probably be more willing to run Harrow where it at least does ramp a land still. However it is a total ***** if someone counters your Harrow and you are down a land...
For now... I am going to see if I can squeeze Impaler Shrike in here. The sheer amount of creature rez I have in here seems like it would make that for a really solid card draw outlet. I don't know if it will replace another card draw or something else but I will see what I can figure out and put an edit on this post then.
EDIT: Ohhh I forgot to mention I got the list sleeved up last night. I only had to order like $5.00 worth of cards between like 8-10 or so cards that I did not already own. I will proxy the cards I don't have yet for now so I can get some play with the list.
EDIT 2: I think I am going to go ahead and trade Whispersilk Cloak out for Impaler Shrike. I did some test hands with the deckstats and I was continuously not impressed by opening handing the shroud equipment. I like Neurok Stealthsuit due to its ability to equip at instant speed if needed. I don't feel like I need the unblockable part of the suit and it costs an extra mana to drop and an extra mana to equip so I feel like it is a weaker link. This deck ramps a ton and has tons of ways to protect my commander if I want to. I don't feel like I need as much shroud as I included originally.
Do you have any suggestions off the top of your head to bring this deck up to speed with the new sets? Really interested in building a similar deck, but now with gates and other fun power creep.
This looks like a really solid deck. I really like it. I have a question on a few cards.
Signets: I've noticed them not being used much, they seems like a winner in this deck.
Tortured Existence - Would this be a good addition?
Does your deck rely on transmute to work? I only ask because you have a lot of cards that are just more expensive versions of the same thing like Rend Flesh for example, this could easily be murder or doomblade.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.
Here's my take on your questions until ISB replys.
The signets are great in 2-3 color decks, but what are you going to cut for 10 mana ramp cards? I'd rather play Manalith, Darksteel Ingot and Cultivate to fix any mana problems. What happens when you draw a Boros Signet and really need black mana?
Tortured Existence is ok but it's no Phyrexian Reclamation. I do play it in my Grey Merchant deck since it adds devotion and turns any creature into brokenness, but othewise the other black recursion spells are better.
Transmute is just the best tutor available in pauper so any B/U deck plays all of them. Rend Flesh kills almost everything Murder does and doesn't cost double black which is why it is used in most 5 color pauper decks. Doom Blade misses a lot of the best creatures.
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Well it looks like pauper EDH is off to a great start so far in my group. A quick rundown on what we are doing currently:
- Commander can be a common / uncommon creature. Legendary is not required.
- Only commons can make up the 99 cards. Any card that ever was printed as common is allowed.
I really like this guy as there aren't much for options to go 5 color. I wasnt even originally looking for a 5c commander when I stumbled across him but the more I thought about him the more I liked him. I am purposely skimping on red in this list as I only have a handful of cards utilizing red which I did on purpose to try to help fix for the other colors. The ability to have a BSA in pauper EDH with other uncommon creatures sitting around is going to be amazing.
1 Paragon of the Amesha
CREATURES (20)
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Cadaver Imp
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Moriok Replica
1 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Stinkweed Imp
1 Sylvok Replica
1 Trinket Mage
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Gravedigger
1 Impaler Shrike
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Mulldrifter
1 Twisted Abomination
1 Krosan Tusker
ARTIFACT (6)
1 Horizon Spellbomb
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Neurok Stealthsuit
1 Prophetic Prism
1 Darksteel Ingot
ENCHANTMENT (6)
1 Mystic Remora
1 Diplomatic Immunity
1 Broken Fall
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Rhystic Study
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Brainstorm
1 Arcane Denial
1 Death Denied
1 Evolution Charm
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Shred Memory
1 Terminate
1 Capsize
1 Dismantling Blow
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Perplex
1 Rend Flesh
1 Soul Manipulation
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Resounding Silence
SORCERY (14)
1 Preordain
1 Disturbed Burial
1 Grim Harvest
1 Rolling Thunder
1 Compulsive Research
1 Cultivate
1 Far Wanderings
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Deep Analysis
1 Elven Cache
1 Foresee
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Swirling Sandstorm
1 Syphon Mind
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Bant Panorama
1 Esper Panorama
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Jund Panorama
1 Naya Panorama
1 Command Tower
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Rupture Spire
1 Shimmering Grotto
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Plains
7 Forest
5 Island
2 Mountain
4 Swamp
Click HERE for the deckstats.
1 Benevolent Bodyguard
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Crypt Rats
1 Kor Sanctifiers
1 Havenwood Wurm
1 Temporal Isolation
1 Shielding Plax
1 Pestilence
INSTANT
1 Impulse
1 Sprout Swarm
1 Harrow
1 Resounding Thunder
1 Divination
I have made a lot of modifications to my list since creating it however a lot of the getting started ideas came off of Dosu's Pauper Child build. Due to that I might have a little more rez than is really needed for this list in comparison to how many creatures I have. I am getting the list sleeved up here and I have the cards ordered for it. Soon enough I will be playing the list.
Thanks for the support I have received so far I have really had a blast building these pauper lists.
EDIT: Shielding Plax out for Broken Fall. I like Shielding Plax but it sets up for a 2 for 1 against me. It is cool if it lands but I think I would rather take my chances on Broken Fall and or the Diplomatic Immunity. Broken Fall is so hard to get rid of as well and it can cover more than just one guy for me.
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[Modern] Allies
ADDS:
Stinkweed Imp my flying defenses are less than stellar as I was hoping to just dominate with my commander however I think it is important to have this guy in due to his dredge option to come back. People really dont like swinging into him and I think I can use that to my advantage.
Faith's Fetters another great multipurpose removal / lockdown effect. I like how I can lock opposing commanders in play while being unusable. This often forces opponents to utilize removal on their own creatures so that they can recast them.
Shred Memory this is a strict swap in for Dimir Infiltrator. The transmute at 2 mana is a good one for this list. I just dont see ever needing the creature itself out of the Infiltrator. It is nice that I can pick him back up with grave rez but unfortunately I think Shred Memory is a more usable card for what the card actually does so I am going with it currently. I can always swap back but for now I like the idea of the memory more than the infiltrator.
Resounding Silence Remove 2 attacking creatures at instant speed and draw a card and it cant be countered by like anything in pauper... this sounds amazing I want to give it a shot. I cant think of much of anything that would give me problems from a blocking perspective especially considering if the game goes long enough I could potentially double buff my commander. This should help me cover my defenses quite nicely.
Elven Cache pauper regrowth effect. It isnt cheap to cast but this deck looks like it will ramp fairly good so I think I can get by with paying 4 to regain any card from my graveyard.
Syphon Mind basic draw effect that punishes opponents as well. I like how it draws me 3 cards for 4 mana in a standard 4 way game.
Rampant Growth fast easy ramp. Normally I would be using Farseek but I realized it is strictly worse than Rampant in Pauper as there are no dual lands I can target.
Cuts:
Counterspell it has its place however I have a lot of good spells and I dont like how this is UU to cast and I have to preemptively deal with things. Sometimes it is better to see where threats go and deal with them then. I just noticed that my list felt a little heavy on counters and so I think I am going to cut back a bit and use some other removal for now. I just dont see the need as much to run counters when there just isnt much of anything for big combos I need to break up.
Faerie Trickery same problem as above. It is more expensive as well but exiling is nice. I just dont want to load up too much on counters so I will cut back for now and see how it runs with less.
Kitesail I realized that this just felt sort of gimp... Not bad if I need evasion for my creatures or help blocking however I think I am ok on those departments.
Bonesplitter a little attack power buff but I don't see where I would really need this... These equipment feel so much weaker in pauper and my commander is plenty strong enough already when he swings in.
Dimir Infiltrator made the swap out with Shred Memory due to the better utility of the effect. The ability to rez the Infiltrator is a bit stronger in this list but for now I will see how the swap goes. Never know when you need some grave hate.
Pilgrim's Eye sort of felt like a bit of a lackluster land fixing. I have much better in here already and I just didnt like this card unless I really need to fix my manabase.
Tilling Treefolk best case scenario I find a few of the Panorama / Terramorphic Expanse / Evolving Wilds out of this guy. Land destruction is much lighter in pauper as there are no lands that can strip others and there are almost no utility lands to speak of. So out of the deck I have 7 cards that have much of an interaction with this guy and he only brings them back to hand.... well I might as well just run a ramp effect in his place and call it a day...
Well that is all of the changes I have for now. I will keep playing with the list a bit and see if I cant move anything else around. I wouldn't mind some feedback if anyone has any experience with a list similar to this I wouldn't mind hearing it.
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[Modern] Allies
Blastoderm I considered running more fatty dudes but I think for now I will just focus on my commander being my wincon and see how that pans out. There are several big wurm type of guys as well as Eldrazi which I could run if I was so inclined however I think keeping the utility and card draw high is a better tactic currently.
kor cartografer only fetches a plains and there are no pauper dual lands fetchable by this. Ondu Giant is better than the Cartografer due to this as well as having a bigger body to him. Even then Ondu Giant isnt anywhere near making the list.
Wood Elves considered him and believe me I do like my Wood Elves but since there are no dual lands and he only fetches a forest I found it a bit restrictive for my ramp needs. I am running a 5 color deck here and fetching a forest specific style of land ramp is too narrow.
I will see if I can find some room to include Pestilence... I just don't know what I will cut as of right now.
EDIT: Cutting Rampant Growth for Pestilence. I don't really care much for Rampant Growth all in all and it feels smaller and less significant than my other ramp / fixing in this deck. If I draw it late it is much less impressive.
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[Modern] Allies
GBW Ghave - BWR Kaalia - UBG Mineoplasm - URG Riku - GRW Uril - GBR Prossh, I need food - BWU Oloro Lock - UGW Derevi Blink - RBU Nekusar, the Wheeler - UBRWG Progenitus - BR Lyzolda - UB Gisa & Geralf Zombies - UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest +1 Counters matter - W Lin Sivvi - BWU Sydri Artifact Control - RWU Narset, the Attacker - GRW Mayael, the Cheater - RWUG Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis Landfall - GBW Doran, I like Big Butts - UR Mizzix Buyback BWR Edgar and his Vamps
I actually did not know about Fleshformer when I was building this list. However I am a big sucker for playing white and Baneslayer Angel was a ton of fun back in M10 and I love the idea of sort of playing it as my commander in a pauper game so I think I will stick with Paragon. I agree that the utility of killing creatures with Fleshformer is sort of nice however paying 5 mana one of each color for -2/-2 really isnt impressive in my mind and the buff he recieves doesnt feel powerful enough on its own to just swing in with a single buff usually. The restriction of activating it only on your turn also doesnt really enthuse me... It might just be a playstyle preference but I am going to stick to Paragon of the Amesha.
Rush of Knowledge - I only have 10 permenants above 3 mana in this deck. Of which I dont really ever plan on playing a 6+ mana permenant in this list so it really isnt too impressive for me. I think it will draw me like 2-3 cards too often for me to be willing to pay 5 mana for this.
Rite of Replenishment - whatever card you meant to link this is too far off from it. I couldn't guess as to what card you actually meant.
Mysteries of the Deep - I did actually consider running this card however the landfall at instant speed is sort of a pain in the ass. I can still pull it off with all of the fetches in here but I usually just see it as a sorcery speed pain in the ass. Divination draws 2 for 3 mana which is a lot faster and just cheaper to cast / deal with. I am not dismissing it entirely I just feel like it is sort of more expensive than it is worth at face value.
Dimir Infiltrator while I took him out in my last change it was to bring in Shred Memory. They are both similar in the fact that I am assuming I will be transmuting them most of the time. The infiltrator is nice as it can be rezed by creature rez however I dont see myself ever utilizing him as a creature. I like Shread Memory as I can actually see myself casting the card to hate on a graveyard. I think they could likely both be used in the deck however as of right now when I was picking one or the other I just saw the Shred Memory as being more usable. The Infiltrator is easier to abuse and recur though. I have a feeling I will have to play with this a bit to figure out what I really want it to be.
Okiba-Gang Shinobi I am running a bit more creature light so I dont know... He has potential but I have never much liked hand discard in multiplayer. This only hits one opponent and I have never been too fond of that personally.
Urborg Uprising hey that is nice... if I bring up my creature curve this is something I would definitely look into. I just don't know if I have a high enough creature curve to use something like this currently.
Pestilence .... I go back and forth on the card non stop. I have a feeling you might be right on having some issues with it. It can be really hard to generate the kind of black mana needed to make it work. As of right now I think I might be looking to pull it back out... It really hurts my guys a lot as well but it is a board wipe. I dont know if I can do enough damage to take out some of the bigger things though... I might be better with just using Swirling Sandstorm in its place... I think I might make that swap as I can much easier manage 4 mana with a single red than I can hitting the black mana multiple times in one turn.
Sprout Swarm that could be a good alternate wincon... I will put it in the consideration section for now. I could see it being a positive card to include in the list though.
Cephalid Scout and Soldevi Sage they arent bad but honestly I would usually rather find ways to mana dump rather than sacrifice manabase late in the game. They are interesting but I would usually rather just use a looter creature than give up my lands.
This list is still just a digital copy. I am working on setting it up the way I want it and sleeving it up when I get a chance to look through my collection for everything. I will post more on mana issues later when I get a chance but as of right now I feel optimistic on my mana base working out. If it gives me issues I might do a little bit of adjusting to allow for more colorless fixing but I have yet to figure that out.
You are correct about me not liking infinite combo effects. Generally speaking they use cards that are not good on their own and I really dislike drawing a card that is a blank until I can assemble the other pieces. I also don't get much thrill out of just doing nothing then suddenly declaring myself the victor. The closest thing to a combo deck that I have enjoyed playing is my Marton Stromgald list which goes from no threats to killing everyone in one turn more often than not.
I like my Izzet deck but I only just finished it last weekend and got it sleeved up for 2 games now. I am really enjoying the pauper and the new commander options though. I look forward to this deck as well as it seems like it will be a ton of fun.
Changes for now:
Pestilence -> Swirling Sandstorm it still gives me a wrath option I just think I am going to have trouble with Pestilence in a 5 color deck with having enough black mana to use it properly. The Sandstorm will be easier to keep my commander alive through it as well as hitting 9 mana and 2 red sources seems more easily done. It also feels like it will be better at sweeping things up.
Sprout Swarm into the consideration list.
Good call... I didn't really think about it beforehand but that definitely should go into consideration. That is a really solid fix option. I might have to look at some of my ramp options to see if this should replace one of them. The downside is that it only bumps me up a single land so that is unfortunate however it does do good for being cheap to multitask. Into the consideration for now.
EDIT: I went ahead and ran the deckstats for the list. It can be found here. I realized that I had too many white sources in comparison to how much white I was running so I cut a Plains for an Island as I have a ton of blue and I didn't have enough support for it. I ran a bunch of sample hands and I was quite pleased. I did some test partial mulligans and I do have to say having transmute cards in an opening hand is sort of bad... Getting the 2 mana of one color to transmute them off is really harsh... Other than that though I didn't see much of an issue with the manabase as I was able to fix it outside of that with a Partial Paris mulligan each time. I will go ahead and put a link to the deckstats under the decklist as well.
-1 Plains
+1 Island
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Train of Thought it is a good card but I worry about being able to produce enough blue to really get much out of it. This is a 5 color deck and I would be surprised to have 3+ islands in play at a time although I do have some ability to filter and produce multiple colors in the list... At first glance I dismissed it due to what I thought would be a problem to produce blue mana... I will keep an eye on it as I think I can get a few games in tonight and I will let you know more then. Until then I have yet to run the list though and this spell is a bit blue hungry. I do like the spell though and it does good in my Izzet.
Ya I know... that is sort of the reason Divination isnt in the list currently. Out of those cards you mentioned I might be interested in running Impaler Shrike... I do have a good bit of creature rez and abusing it to draw cards over and over would be really nice... Generally speaking though a lot of the cards that you draw a card on connecting to a player stuff doesnt work more than a turn. After that people are dropping more blocks and trying to answer that creature. I find that the looters are a bit more powerful than the strict draw a card guys as you can utilize them for more than a card and draw less hate.
As for mana dumping... I have a few ways already. There is always buffing my commander extra times for more power and life. Beyond that there are the few buyback spells and I am still strongly considering Sprout Swarm still for a good mana dump. I am not too concerned about it as of right now. I did look at the invokers and Dawnglare Invoker and Smokespew Invoker are probably my favorites of them however they are so costly to do anything with that I am sort of meh on them as of right now.
The land enchants are alright... but it does set you up to be 2 for 1ed again... I am mostly happy with my land ramping as of right now and I think I will stick to it for now.
Oona's Grace just doesn't pay out big enough in my mind. It starts out paying 3 mana for a single card then it just lets you cycle lands for 3 mana afterwards??? That feels too slow in my mind.
Crop Rotation is good but we dont have any powerhouse lands in here. I guess best case scenario you tutor up a fix all style of land but I dont like how I give up a card and dont actually get another land in play. This sort of card is better when you cycle a land and get Gaea's Cradle. I would probably be more willing to run Harrow where it at least does ramp a land still. However it is a total ***** if someone counters your Harrow and you are down a land...
For now... I am going to see if I can squeeze Impaler Shrike in here. The sheer amount of creature rez I have in here seems like it would make that for a really solid card draw outlet. I don't know if it will replace another card draw or something else but I will see what I can figure out and put an edit on this post then.
EDIT: Ohhh I forgot to mention I got the list sleeved up last night. I only had to order like $5.00 worth of cards between like 8-10 or so cards that I did not already own. I will proxy the cards I don't have yet for now so I can get some play with the list.
EDIT 2: I think I am going to go ahead and trade Whispersilk Cloak out for Impaler Shrike. I did some test hands with the deckstats and I was continuously not impressed by opening handing the shroud equipment. I like Neurok Stealthsuit due to its ability to equip at instant speed if needed. I don't feel like I need the unblockable part of the suit and it costs an extra mana to drop and an extra mana to equip so I feel like it is a weaker link. This deck ramps a ton and has tons of ways to protect my commander if I want to. I don't feel like I need as much shroud as I included originally.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/paragon-of-the-amesha-pauper-edh-2/
1x Azorius Guildgate
1x Boros Garrison
1x Boros Guildgate
1x Command Tower
1x Dimir Aqueduct
1x Dimir Guildgate
1x Evolving Wilds
2x Forest
1x Golgari Guildgate
1x Golgari Rot Farm
1x Gruul Guildgate
1x Gruul Turf
3x Island
1x Izzet Boilerworks
1x Izzet Guildgate
1x Mountain
1x Opal Palace
1x Orzhov Basilica
1x Orzhov Guildgate
3x Plains
1x Rakdos Guildgate
1x Rupture Spire
1x Selesnya Guildgate
1x Selesnya Sanctuary
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Simic Guildgate
1x Swamp
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Transguild Promenade
1x Unknown Shores
1x Capsize
1x Exclude
1x Mystical Teachings
1x Snakeform
1x Soul Manipulation
1x Strangling Soot
1x Traumatic Visions
1x Cultivate
1x Disturbed Burial
1x Far Wanderings
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Rampant Growth
1x Rolling Thunder
1x Swirling Sandstorm
1x Syphon Mind
1x Archaeomancer
1x Coalition Honor Guard
1x Dawnstrike Paladin
1x Dimir House Guard
1x Dimir Infiltrator
1x Drift of Phantasms
1x Elgaud Shieldmate
1x Gatecreeper Vine
1x Guardian of the Guildpact
1x Krosan Tusker
1x Mnemonic Wall
1x Nessian Asp
1x Noble Templar
1x Ondu Giant
1x Pale Recluse
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scroll Thief
1x Sentinel Spider
1x Seraph of Dawn
1x Sunscape Familiar
1x Totem-Guide Hartebeest
1x Twisted Abomination
1x Voyaging Satyr
1x Alexi's Cloak
1x Armadillo Cloak
1x Cage of Hands
1x Curse of Chains
1x Encrust
1x Faith's Fetters
1x Fertile Ground
1x Hobble
1x Lignify
1x Mystic Restraints
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Pillory of the Sleepless
1x Recumbent Bliss
1x Rhystic Study
1x Shielding Plax
1x Soul Channeling
1x Temporal Isolation
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Manalith
1x Neurok Stealthsuit
1x Obelisk of Bant
1x Prophetic Prism
1x Whispersilk Cloak
EDH Decks:
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Ezuri, Renegade Leader 1v1
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher 1v1
Hythonia the Cruel
Trying to build:
Jenara, Asura of War
Designing a Custom Set:
Clash of the Cultures: 5 Wedges, 5 Cultures
Providing Artwork for:
Archester: Frontier of Steam
Signets: I've noticed them not being used much, they seems like a winner in this deck.
Tortured Existence - Would this be a good addition?
Does your deck rely on transmute to work? I only ask because you have a lot of cards that are just more expensive versions of the same thing like Rend Flesh for example, this could easily be murder or doomblade.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.
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The signets are great in 2-3 color decks, but what are you going to cut for 10 mana ramp cards? I'd rather play Manalith, Darksteel Ingot and Cultivate to fix any mana problems. What happens when you draw a Boros Signet and really need black mana?
Tortured Existence is ok but it's no Phyrexian Reclamation. I do play it in my Grey Merchant deck since it adds devotion and turns any creature into brokenness, but othewise the other black recursion spells are better.
Transmute is just the best tutor available in pauper so any B/U deck plays all of them. Rend Flesh kills almost everything Murder does and doesn't cost double black which is why it is used in most 5 color pauper decks. Doom Blade misses a lot of the best creatures.