So, I've been looking at the format for a bit and I've started digging through the cardpool. I think this format needs a strong Zoo Style deck, and I think all the tools are there, right down to Grim Lavamancer and Tarmogoyf. I'm not sure if the manabase can support tri-color or not, but there are definitely some really nice things that could come from each color if the mana can be sorted out. This being an aggro-beats deck though, I'm not sure it'll go well.
Primary Creature Selection
Green
Avacyn's Pilgrim - Ramp is always good. The fact that he helps the splash for white, which I'm planning on having as the minor color, also helps a lot.
Kessig Cagebreakers - I really like this guy, but he's a 5-drop and his ability is really conditional. with that said, I really doubt he's playable.
Strangleroot Geist - You can't talk about green and aggro without addressing this guy. Ultimately the decision not to include was because of the double green. He could be good for the R/G list, but I think Skinshifter and Stormblood fill the place well and are humans to boot.
Stormblood Berserker - a conditional 3/3 with relevant evasion for 2 mana. The condition is easy enough to meet... I'd say that gives him a solid place in the deck.
Hero of Oxid Ridge - If you need to ask why this guy is good for an aggro deck, you probably shouldn't play in tournaments. That said, there are similar options now available (Hellrider) For this deck, the main thing that makes me like him over the alternative is creature type. Otherwise they're about even in every aspect although different conditions could lead to 1 being better than the other for the situation at any time.
Reckless Waif - He's a solid 1-drop. He's not really my first pick though because he's somewhat reliant on the flip. some lords. He's worth consideration though.
Kurin Outlaw - Decently costed without flipping, really well costed if it flips. Double Strike is nice. That said, I'm probably not including this one because it's double-red in the cost, and we have a lot better plays than the human side of kurin.
Manic Vandal - I really feel like this guy has maindeck potential. Almost every deck has a key artifact anymore: Swords, Batterskulls, Sphere of the Suns, Mimic Vat, Wurmcoil Engine, Pristine Talismen... (The list goes on).
Priest of Urabrask - could be mana correction for Hero of Oxid Ridge or play immediately follow with a sword.
Honorable Mentions:
Chandra's Phoenix - Really awesome creature, but Double red hurts, it's not a human, and our burn needs directed at creatures, not players.
Stromkirk Noble - A really top end 1-drop in this format. The only thing I have against him in this is that he's a Vampire and not a Human. Also, we have a lot of high quality 1-drops already.
Fiend Hunter - I'm not sure he really fits, but a creature that's also removal is definitely good.
Mikaeus, the Lunarch - He's another lord, and he's also a great mana sink when you need it. Any deck can get mana flooded, but it hurts the aggro decks worst of all.
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben - Reallly great anti-control card for Aggro. I think she's really Sideboard right now though. Most your opponents are Fish or Aggro.
Honorable Mentions:
Hero of Bladehold - The Haste on Oxid ridge makes it just strictly better for the deck and there's no reason to bog down on 4-drops.
Doomed Traveler - He's good. He's an efficient 1-drop with solid reach when he recurs. I'm just not sure he's a fit since he doesn't have a means of increasing the damage output and is even worse of after he recurs. Mainly, for all I like him, I think he's just too far outclassed by the other 1-drops available.
I'm not sure, I'm just brewing right now and haven't had a chance to test anything. There are a lot of directions this could work into or from. Mainly I just wanted to get the discussion going because no one else is really working on anything like this and all the cards are definitely there.
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It looks like a fine deck, but if you're playing 27 humans and playing white, not playing Champion of the Parish is a crime.
And in your RG build, playing Manic Vandal alongside maindeck artifacts is just begging for dead cards.
I'd have to test Champion, the one thing that makes me hesitant is that I don't want to count on a T1 White, and most of the threats I run are geared more towards getting out of hand without overextending. He just begs to have you overextend. I was thinking about all but killing the 1-drop slot for the naya list to make it more friendy to Evolving Wilds and replacing the Waifs with Berserkers. I'm actually not a huge fan of Waif, but with the burn and Hero being red I know I need a higher red focus, making the T1 Red easier to hit.
Manic Vandal could be moved out of the main, but I doubt he'd ever be dead. There isn't a single top list right now that doesn't have an important maindeck artifact: Swords, Spheres, Talismens, Batterskull, Wurmcoil, Ratchet Bomb.
The entire time during the last match when I was color screwed and kept off double white I was thinking "Damnit Jaden, that troll-faced bastard might be right."
You definitely want need Evolving Wilds in the Grim Lavamancer list.
good catch... updated. I think that will also solve the dilemma I was having with the Naya list. So I'll just update that too. I'm also really thinking on just dropping the swords... there's things I feel like I'm missing in both lists that I just doni't think the swords fill the gap from. The goal is to play like Zoo, and Zoo doesn't really have a use for those... the creatures are already strong and efficient enough.
Actually I meant Avacyn's Pilgrim... I'm really losing it today... blah. (Fixing)
Oh lol, the naya list looks so much better now, however i don't see Daybreak Ranger at all in the naya list, i think she deserves a spot in this deck, she can practically save you against delver.
Oh lol, the naya list looks so much better now, however i don't see Daybreak Ranger at all in the naya list, i think she deserves a spot in this deck, she can practically save you against delver.
I agree on her really belonging, but I just couldn't decide what to cut. Honestly I doubt Delver could handle the threat density this runs either way. Arc trail really gives them a hard time too.
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I agree on her really belonging, but I just couldn't decide what to cut. Honestly I doubt Delver could handle the threat density this runs either way. Arc trail really gives them a hard time too.
Yeah i don't think Delver can face this deck properly.
Btw, how would you sideboard against the different T1 decks?
if anything I'd cut 1 splicer and 1 grim. This deck probably isn't going to be activating grim constantly, but blade splicer should be a house.
Don't know yet... some choices are obvious, but really I'm considering the meta some in the SB and also potential metagame with DKA. The sideboard I put together is just a variety pack for the different things that could come up, trying to cover all my bases.
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if anything I'd cut 1 splicer and 1 grim. This deck probably isn't going to be activating grim constantly, but blade splicer should be a house.
Don't know yet... some choices are obvious, but really I'm considering the meta some in the SB and also potential metagame with DKA. The sideboard I put together is just a variety pack for the different things that could come up, trying to cover all my bases.
Yeah, i was thinking the same, but Grim itself could work as a late game killer with this effect. Also seems like you forgot Mirran Crusader, i find him pretty good, not sure if he fits in this deck.
Yeah, i was thinking the same, but Grim itself could work as a late game killer with this effect. Also seems like you forgot Mirran Crusader, i find him pretty good, not sure if he fits in this deck.
I looked at him, and then considered whether or not I wanted to count on double white considering I wanted to top off with Hero of Oxid Ridge who's double red. In the end I didn't like the idea of hitting these together with any manabase you could try building in standard, so I decided Blade splicer also gives 4 dmg for 3 cmc with only single white in the cost and split over 2 bodies.
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I think with how it seems that you're swarming the field, you should run hellrider over hero. At least try both and see which one gets more consistent wins when you hit them. The fact that the devil gets damage through no matter what seems better to me and it's also 1 point farther from shock damage and chump blockers to take.
Fair enough. I was just thinking of his color commitments. Plus he gets +1/+1 from Mayor no matter which side of Mayor is face up.
Seems to me that the deck might live and die by its 1-3 drops, but Hero would definitely be the most consistent way to deal a turn 4 blow that's impossible to recover from, assuming the colors are there.
the assessment on the 2 and 3-drops is pretty accurate. This deck lives for its 2-drops in particular. The 2-drops in the format right now are just amazing. Stormblood, Skinshifter and Cloistered Youth all offer huge value at 2 mana. Meaning that your turn 2 play is always a serious threat. I think the optimal average play for this deck would be
T1: ETB Tapped Land
T2: land, Skinshifter
T3: land, swing 4/4 trample, Stormblood Berserker
T4: Land, Hero, swing 8-10 (possibly leaving skinshifter back); or continue like turn 3
What I think puts this ahead of other aggro is that it can do all of this off of 3 or 4 spells in the first 4 turns. This should offer a lot better consistency and reach.
My natural inclination is to just drop white and throw in some different burn (Incinerate/Brimstone Volley), but I'm just a noob. Eager to see how this kind of deck plays out.
the assessment on the 2 and 3-drops is pretty accurate. This deck lives for its 2-drops in particular. The 2-drops in the format right now are just amazing. Stormblood, Skinshifter and Cloistered Youth all offer huge value at 2 mana. Meaning that your turn 2 play is always a serious threat. I think the optimal average play for this deck would be
T1: ETB Tapped Land
T2: land, Skinshifter
T3: land, swing 4/4 trample, Stormblood Berserker
T4: Land, Hero, swing 8-10 (possibly leaving skinshifter back); or continue like turn 3
What I think puts this ahead of other aggro is that it can do all of this off of 3 or 4 spells in the first 4 turns. This should offer a lot better consistency and reach.
I think i'mma test this deck, sounds wild and i believe it could be Tier 2 deck if built properly, probably i'm wrong but it has potential
My natural inclination is to just drop white and throw in some different burn (Incinerate/Brimstone Volley), but I'm just a noob. Eager to see how this kind of deck plays out.
My natural inclination is to just drop white and throw in some different burn (Incinerate/Brimstone Volley), but I'm just a noob. Eager to see how this kind of deck plays out.
There's a reason I include the R/G starter list. I think a list tuned properly with a little more burn has a lot of potential and is going to have a more stable manabase. As a trade off, you give up some of the utility and creatures from white. All things said and done though, I've already said I haven't tested either of these, and the trade-offs seem marginal overall. White has a better nut-draw and some really nice creature and sideboard additions, but mana stability is a really big deal.
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There's a reason I include the R/G starter list. I think a list tuned properly with a little more burn has a lot of potential and is going to have a more stable manabase. As a trade off, you give up some of the utility and creatures from white. All things said and done though, I've already said I haven't tested either of these, and the trade-offs seem marginal overall. White has a better nut-draw and some really nice creature and sideboard additions, but mana stability is a really big deal.
Yeah, mana base is a problem, however the Naya deck could still work in a pretty sweet way. Honestly i don't really like Scars lands, they've dissapointed me so many times that i gave up with them.
Yeah, mana base is a problem, however the Naya deck could still work in a pretty sweet way. Honestly i don't really like Scars lands, they've dissapointed me so many times that i gave up with them.
yeah, but for this deck Turns 1-3 are the critical plays. T4 land can usually ETB tapped and we can not care. Really this should be able to miss land 4 in most games and not care. Which makes the Scars lands the only real choice. The strength for a deck like this is going to be that facing other aggro like Delver or Humans it should be able to just walk over them. The weakness though, is that if you can't have your kill ready before a Titan hits, you're pretty much through. Considering that Titans can come down T4 or T5, that's a clock you really have to think about. If a Titan hits, you have to be ready to swing lethal that turn (eating the losses from the Titan) or you just can't push through it. RDW Burn could be slightly difficult too, but naya can bring in Timely's to make up for that.
Primary Creature Selection
Green
Red
White
Sample Decklist:
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Copperline Gorge
1 Rootbound Crag
4 Evolving Wilds
5 Mountain
3 Forest
1 Plains
Creatures (29)
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Skinshifter
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Cloistered Youth
4 Stormblood Berserker
4 Blade Splicer
2 Hero of Oxid Ridge
4 Arc Trail
3 Galvanic Blast
2 Brimstone Volley
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Timely Reinforcements
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Revoke Existence
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Mountain
4 Forest
2 Kessig Wolf Run
Creatures (27)
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wolfbitten Captive
4 Stormblood Berserker
4 Skinshifter
4 Mayor of Avabruck
2 Manic Vandal
2 Daybreak Ranger
3 Hero of Oxid Ridge
4 Arc Trail
4 Galvanic Blast
3 Brimstone Volley
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Manic Vandal
2 Wrack with Madness
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Beast Within
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
And in your RG build, playing Manic Vandal alongside maindeck artifacts is just begging for dead cards.
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
I'd have to test Champion, the one thing that makes me hesitant is that I don't want to count on a T1 White, and most of the threats I run are geared more towards getting out of hand without overextending. He just begs to have you overextend. I was thinking about all but killing the 1-drop slot for the naya list to make it more friendy to Evolving Wilds and replacing the Waifs with Berserkers. I'm actually not a huge fan of Waif, but with the burn and Hero being red I know I need a higher red focus, making the T1 Red easier to hit.
Manic Vandal could be moved out of the main, but I doubt he'd ever be dead. There isn't a single top list right now that doesn't have an important maindeck artifact: Swords, Spheres, Talismens, Batterskull, Wurmcoil, Ratchet Bomb.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
You definitely
wantneed Evolving Wilds in the Grim Lavamancer list.Domain Zoo
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Retired decks:
URWBGrixis Teachings (pauper) BWRU
URWB Tainted Vengeance (SOM-INN standard) BWRU
UBR Grixis Vengeance (SOM-INN Standard) RBU
(click for decklist)
Ego Quotes:
good catch... updated. I think that will also solve the dilemma I was having with the Naya list. So I'll just update that too. I'm also really thinking on just dropping the swords... there's things I feel like I'm missing in both lists that I just doni't think the swords fill the gap from. The goal is to play like Zoo, and Zoo doesn't really have a use for those... the creatures are already strong and efficient enough.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
But i like your idea, also i believe it is Avacynian Priest, not Priest of Avacyn.
Actually I meant Avacyn's Pilgrim... I'm really losing it today... blah. (Fixing)
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
Oh lol, the naya list looks so much better now, however i don't see Daybreak Ranger at all in the naya list, i think she deserves a spot in this deck, she can practically save you against delver.
I agree on her really belonging, but I just couldn't decide what to cut. Honestly I doubt Delver could handle the threat density this runs either way. Arc trail really gives them a hard time too.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
I see, what about cutting 2 Blade Splicer for 2 Daybreak Ranger? Just an idea.
Yeah i don't think Delver can face this deck properly.
Btw, how would you sideboard against the different T1 decks?
if anything I'd cut 1 splicer and 1 grim. This deck probably isn't going to be activating grim constantly, but blade splicer should be a house.
Don't know yet... some choices are obvious, but really I'm considering the meta some in the SB and also potential metagame with DKA. The sideboard I put together is just a variety pack for the different things that could come up, trying to cover all my bases.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
Yeah, i was thinking the same, but Grim itself could work as a late game killer with this effect. Also seems like you forgot Mirran Crusader, i find him pretty good, not sure if he fits in this deck.
I looked at him, and then considered whether or not I wanted to count on double white considering I wanted to top off with Hero of Oxid Ridge who's double red. In the end I didn't like the idea of hitting these together with any manabase you could try building in standard, so I decided Blade splicer also gives 4 dmg for 3 cmc with only single white in the cost and split over 2 bodies.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
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Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
Seems to me that the deck might live and die by its 1-3 drops, but Hero would definitely be the most consistent way to deal a turn 4 blow that's impossible to recover from, assuming the colors are there.
T1: ETB Tapped Land
T2: land, Skinshifter
T3: land, swing 4/4 trample, Stormblood Berserker
T4: Land, Hero, swing 8-10 (possibly leaving skinshifter back); or continue like turn 3
A nut hand for this deck would be
T1: Land, Avacyn's Pilgrim
T2: Land, Blade Splicer
T3: Hero, Swing 10
T4: burn creature, Swing 12
What I think puts this ahead of other aggro is that it can do all of this off of 3 or 4 spells in the first 4 turns. This should offer a lot better consistency and reach.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
I think i'mma test this deck, sounds wild and i believe it could be Tier 2 deck if built properly, probably i'm wrong but it has potential
White offer a variety of creatures and spells that can help a lot. Oblivion Ring, Blade Splicer, Cloistered Youth, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and so on.
There's a reason I include the R/G starter list. I think a list tuned properly with a little more burn has a lot of potential and is going to have a more stable manabase. As a trade off, you give up some of the utility and creatures from white. All things said and done though, I've already said I haven't tested either of these, and the trade-offs seem marginal overall. White has a better nut-draw and some really nice creature and sideboard additions, but mana stability is a really big deal.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
Yeah, mana base is a problem, however the Naya deck could still work in a pretty sweet way. Honestly i don't really like Scars lands, they've dissapointed me so many times that i gave up with them.
yeah, but for this deck Turns 1-3 are the critical plays. T4 land can usually ETB tapped and we can not care. Really this should be able to miss land 4 in most games and not care. Which makes the Scars lands the only real choice. The strength for a deck like this is going to be that facing other aggro like Delver or Humans it should be able to just walk over them. The weakness though, is that if you can't have your kill ready before a Titan hits, you're pretty much through. Considering that Titans can come down T4 or T5, that's a clock you really have to think about. If a Titan hits, you have to be ready to swing lethal that turn (eating the losses from the Titan) or you just can't push through it. RDW Burn could be slightly difficult too, but naya can bring in Timely's to make up for that.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!