The Lingering Souls is there to stall your opponent... block the early game threats until you can get that unburial rites off.
I'd like to hear what people think of this and what they think of the sideboard. Levy had some interesting choices... but they look to be the RIGHT choices... (though, I'm not sold on an extra 2 wurmcoils in the side)
This deck seems super tight so I have no idea how to side board the non-creatures. If you put in 3 ancient grudges like he said in the deck tech what are you taking out? 1 Mulch, 1 Instinct, 1 Looting?
Also what are the Memories Journeys for? The Mirror Match? To Remove Sun Titan Targets?
I imagine that the Journey is to use in response to Nihil Spellbomb, shuffle your stuff back in... or to remove a snapcaster target (same with Purify on this one)
How about "You may discard your hand, pay 5 life, rip this card, remove 3 digits from any number of target fingers you control, and concede at the end of the next end step rather than pay It Will Go Through!!'s mana cost.
I feel like a competent Delver player can remove the mana dorks, counter the Unburial Rites, then win before they can cast a six drop. It does look like a fun deck though.
RDW is still a pain in the ass, so I might need a 4th Timely in the sb. If this is the right forum (which I doubt, but it said all 5 colors), what would you suggest? The manabase looks shaky, but I almost never have problems with getting the right colors.
Reposting the deck list I posted in the dredge forum, that didn't really care about reanimator. I have been loving this deck so far. I built it once DA was out, and it can beat any deck, although sometimes it needs some luck. I have experienced it as a very consistent, fun deck to play.
Sphinx is really good. Control will play it and be able to protect him just fine, hes a much better finisher then Jwar Isle and thats saying a lot considering how good he alone is. Bazzar Trader.dec now has 16 threaten effects. Thats really, really, really,really good. Really good.
That looks like a much more interactive version, not as easy to disrupt... but not quite as fast.
Why do you have a main deck Ray of Revelation? For O-ring?
I faced a lot of humans and B/W tokens, against which the ray is better . However, now the meta is shaping up to be mostly Wolfrun ,delver, tempered steel, and even pod, a 1-of Ancient Grudge may be better in the main.
The reason for the 1-of is the flexibility. It doesn't really hurt your gameplan, and it's very good to 'discard' off a mulch, forbidden alchemy, or faithless looting, and it isn't that big of a deal when it can't hit anything, since it's just a 1-of.
Also, against a lot of agressive decks, i side out blue (the alchemies plus an island) and some reanimating stuff (among others Jin-gitaxias, a sheoldred, one or two Unburial Rites) to make it a more reactive deck, that wins lategame.
Sphinx is really good. Control will play it and be able to protect him just fine, hes a much better finisher then Jwar Isle and thats saying a lot considering how good he alone is. Bazzar Trader.dec now has 16 threaten effects. Thats really, really, really,really good. Really good.
What I don't get is what the mana dorks are for and why he's not playing Forbidden Alchemy. I feel like Alchemy is superior to one of the green dig spells and that the mana dork slots can be used for removal or disruption.. Just observations from an outside player looking in... Never played this so I don't know how the deck truly plays.
What I don't get is what the mana dorks are for and why he's not playing Forbidden Alchemy. I feel like Alchemy is superior to one of the green dig spells and that the mana dork slots can be used for removal or disruption.. Just observations from an outside player looking in... Never played this so I don't know how the deck truly plays.
Playtest it a little bit and you'll see that it all works out (splendidly so, in fact). As said above, the dorks let you ramp into more self mill spells and faster use of Unburial Rites. They also make it very possible to ramp into hardcasting your fatties as well.
Looks fun to play, I think I will test a more of a UGWB version, getting that turn three Jin would be nasty though I don't like that people are getting more dismembers in, could be painful but the Elsehs are pertty much the main reason I want to play this.
Tracker's Instinct is awesome guys. Every game I've played, between that and Mulch I get through the first 30-40 cards in my deck. It really is an amazing card in this build. Can't wait to take this to FNM this week.
My only gripe is that I really want to have some removal. I know the deck doesn't need it, but it just feels wrong to me (I always play B so my brain is wired for removal)
Been looking at running this deck soon looking for opinions on what the exact configuration of the main deck reanimation targets and sideboard options should be (really thats all we can tweak since as far as i can tell there is nothing to add or take from the mana or discard)
I'm thinking
2 Elesh Norn,
2 Jin-Gitaxias,
1 Inferno Titan,
1 Grave Titan
2 Wurmcoil
for the main deck then sideboard something like this
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Ray of Revelation
3 Purify the Grave
3 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Elesh Norn
1 Jin-Gitaxias
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
Most of sideboard is obvious Grudge for most decks with artifacts I dislike even if its just Wolf Runs Inkmoths. Ray is for decks with anthems or oblivion rings, Purify for mirror and maybe Delver to mess with snapcaster and cut off Lingering Souls, Gnaw is to pad my life total verse aggro. Elesh Norn and Jin-Gitaxias come in or go out depending if I'm facing aggro or control and Rune-Scarred Demon at least in theory comes in most matches to find the hate cards but maybe I just want him main deck instead then
Would like to here some thoughts about other possible reanimation targets like Rune-scarred Demon, Myr Battlesphere, and Sheoldred
I'm thinking about Demon it would feel great to have demon another target and one unburial rites in grave then u unburial the demon and go find another unburial rights or in post board matches go find your hate cards with him
Myr Battlesphere seems nice especially if the Planeswalker Control deck picks up in popularity since with its ability you can hit a planewalker even if they have chump blockers and at worse its kinda like a Grave Titan against control which is to say spot removal may kill it but it leaves an army behind
Sheoldred is just nice big creature kills opponents creatures and brings more of yours back
I really like this deck, cheating into play fatties has been one of my favorite archtypes ever since I first played Oath of Druids, my second favorite archtype is control, and my all time favorites has always been UG cheat into play fatties...
That in mind, I have concerns about how this deck can beat two of the currently best decks in standard, wolfrun and UW delver
Wolfrun is similiarly fast, can burn our mana dorks to bypass us, and our finisher Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is not as threatening to them as they still have their titans. Galvanic Blast is also capable of taking her down in a tradeoff block.
The big question is how to rebuild the deck to work around this, something I find hard to do in this deck since the machinery of it consists of far too many cards to allow changes;
The purpose, or core, of the deck is to cast Unburial Rites on Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (or some other fatty) from the graveyard. Failing that, due to ramp it is possible to hard cast her. These cards you need 4 of each for a total of 8
In order to achieve this it has a card draw / discard engine consisting of Mulch + Faithless Looting + Tracker's Instincts in order to consistently throw the core cards into the graveyard. You really need a full playset of each and thus 12 cards for engine, or 20 total
Add another 23 lands for 52 cards and it becomes obvious that there isnt much to work with here
Which brings us to the 'free' cards, those who don't directly interact with the concept or core of the deck:
Inferno Titan + Wurmcoil Engine are alternative win conditions, the deck is too vulnerable relying on Elesh alone so an alternative win condition is mandatory, which puts further pressure on the last remaing card:
Lingering Souls is an amazing card, it can provide you with 4 chump blockers, and it interacts well with Elesh on board, but it doesn't solve the issues mentioned above
I honestly don't see where you start shaving off cards in order to improve it's odds against either wolf run or UW delver
I think the deck can atleast stand up to wolfrun after siding out Elesh and bringing in more Wurmcoil Engine and Ancient Grudge but given it's low threat count I don't see how it could ever beat a well played UW delver deck
This deck is just faster than wolf run hunt, and that's how it wins, it seems. Jin can help there, because he keeps them off of everything: having them work with one card all the time can really hurt them, combine that with his other super-friends (Sheoldred + Elesh Norn), the three praetors are a very very effective soft-lock, and each by themselves does wonders. I always seem to get all 3 out if I can start with either jin or Sheoldred.
I love this deck: I threw it together as a one-week only list, and now I'm considering splurging to buy the cards I'm borrowing for it.
My finisher list:
1x Wurmcoil
1x Inferno titan
2x Grave titan
2x Elesh Norn
2x Sheoldred
mainboarded, with the 2 jins sideboard. A complete rework of the sideboard is going to be necessary for a non protour meta, though.
How necessary has memory's journey been for everyone?
Since I have such diverse finishers, I'm not sure how much I mind the opponent extracting one.
Worried about a lot of wolf run in your meta?
Up your wurmcoil and sheoldred count.
If sheoldred sticks and can consistently bring back wurmcoil, the only thing you then need to worry about is inkmoth, which with your other friend (Norn), is null. And God help the conley GB run players, swampwalk says hi.
How about "You may discard your hand, pay 5 life, rip this card, remove 3 digits from any number of target fingers you control, and concede at the end of the next end step rather than pay It Will Go Through!!'s mana cost.
I really really love this deck, in fact I've been trying out different configurations of reanimation targets. Some goofy stuff I've tried:
Auriok Survivors and Argentum Armor: Not really ace, but funny when it works. You've got a 10/12 creature that destroys stuff when it swings, sort of like a mini Eldrazi. If they get rid of the creature, you can equip the armor onto the mana dorks. One of my buddies suggested using the blade that becomes a demon. I haven't given that a go yet.
Chancellor of the Annex: Free force spikes every time! It's like a better Thalia on a 5/6 flying body! And if you draw any in the opening hand, it disrupts your opponent, oftentimes stalling them enough for you to get your game on. This is the creature I am most excited about and I am considering relegating the titans and wurmcoils to the sideboard.
Flayer of the Hatebound: Not as poor as you'd expect, but it IS actually pretty decent. It's a relatively fast clock too, seeing as attempts to remove it speeds up your clock.
The List:
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Llanowar Elves
4x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2x Inferno Titan
2x Wurmcoil Engine
INSTANT/SORCERY: 20
4x Unburial Rites
4x Mulch
4x Tracker's Instincts
4x Faithless Looting
4x Lingering Souls
4x Copperline Gorge
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Darkslick Shores
4x Razorverge Thicket
1x Rootbound Crag
1x Mountain
1x Plains
6x Forest
1x Thrun, The Last Troll
2x Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
2x Wurmcoil Engine
4x Ancient Grudge
1x Purify the Grave
2x Memory's Journey
3x Ray of Revelation
In the video deck tech they talk about this deck really only being 4 cards.
1 - Mana Accelerator (Birds, Pilgrim, Elf)
2 - Graveyard Filtering (Mulch, Instincts, Looting)
3 - Fatty (Elesh Norn, Titan, Wurmcoil)
4 - Unburial Rites
The Lingering Souls is there to stall your opponent... block the early game threats until you can get that unburial rites off.
I'd like to hear what people think of this and what they think of the sideboard. Levy had some interesting choices... but they look to be the RIGHT choices... (though, I'm not sold on an extra 2 wurmcoils in the side)
Here is the link to the deck tech.
Here is an article by Levy on tcgplayer talking about the deck
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Darkslick Shores
6 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Rootbound Crag
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Inferno Titan
1 Llanowar Elves
4 Lingering Souls
4 Mulch
4 Tracker's Instincts
4 Unburial Rites
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Memory's Journey
2 Ray of Revelation
4 Sword of War and Peace
3 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Wurmcoil Engine
Artifact Creatures
2 Wurmcoil Engine
Creatures
3 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Inferno Titan
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sun Titan
Enchantments
1 Oblivion Ring
Legendary Creatures
3 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
4 Mulch
3 Tracker's Instincts
4 Unburial Rites
Basic Lands
5 Forest
1 Mountain
Lands
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Copperline Gorge
1 Darkslick Shores
2 Gavony Township
4 Razorverge Thicket
3 Shimmering Grotto
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Memory's Journey
2 Ray of Revelation
3 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Corrosive Gale
SCG Article "Evolving Frites" by Daniel Unwin
4 Inferno Titan
Instants
4 Desperate Ravings
2 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Geistflame
2 Mana Leak
Legendary Creatures
4 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Planeswalkers
3 Liliana of the Veil
Sorceries
4 Faithless Looting
4 Ponder
4 Unburial Rites
2 Island
4 Mountain
2 Plains
2 Swamp
Lands
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Seachrome Coast
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Consecrated Sphinx
2 Curse of Death's Hold
4 Go for the Throat
2 Negate
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Timely Reinforcements
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/23700.html
Vorel of the Hull Clade
Reki, the History of Kamigawa (MTGO)
Lavinia of the Tenth (MTGO)
Spam Warning.
Vorel of the Hull Clade
Reki, the History of Kamigawa (MTGO)
Lavinia of the Tenth (MTGO)
Also what are the Memories Journeys for? The Mirror Match? To Remove Sun Titan Targets?
Vorel of the Hull Clade
Reki, the History of Kamigawa (MTGO)
Lavinia of the Tenth (MTGO)
Wow, three responses at the same time!
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
Vorel of the Hull Clade
Reki, the History of Kamigawa (MTGO)
Lavinia of the Tenth (MTGO)
Reposting the deck list I posted in the dredge forum, that didn't really care about reanimator. I have been loving this deck so far. I built it once DA was out, and it can beat any deck, although sometimes it needs some luck. I have experienced it as a very consistent, fun deck to play.
Why do you have a main deck Ray of Revelation? For O-ring?
Vorel of the Hull Clade
Reki, the History of Kamigawa (MTGO)
Lavinia of the Tenth (MTGO)
I faced a lot of humans and B/W tokens, against which the ray is better . However, now the meta is shaping up to be mostly Wolfrun ,delver, tempered steel, and even pod, a 1-of Ancient Grudge may be better in the main.
The reason for the 1-of is the flexibility. It doesn't really hurt your gameplan, and it's very good to 'discard' off a mulch, forbidden alchemy, or faithless looting, and it isn't that big of a deal when it can't hit anything, since it's just a 1-of.
I've been testing Flayer of the Hatebound, and have found it to be too clunky. I will test Inferno Titan and an extra Elesh Norn.
Also, against a lot of agressive decks, i side out blue (the alchemies plus an island) and some reanimating stuff (among others Jin-gitaxias, a sheoldred, one or two Unburial Rites) to make it a more reactive deck, that wins lategame.
Though I would love some advice on the side boarding if anyone has it.
What in the world are the Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur" target="blank">Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur in there for?
Also, has anyone tried it against CFB Wold-Run, with Huntmaster?
My EDH Decks
:Chainer, Dementia Master - Mono black recursion - :Titania - Token hordes
: Teysa - Sacrifice and tokens - : Brago, King Eternal - Blink - :Sygg, River Cutthroat - I draw cards; you discard -
: Melek, Izzet Paragon - Copy spells, don't win.
: Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Card Draw - :Karador, Ghost Chieftain - Graveyard shenanigans - :Tariel, Reckoner of Souls - Angels and Demons theme - :Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Hordes
: Marchesa - Steal and sacrifice - : Shattergang Brothers - Everything gets blown up - : Animar, Soul of Elements - All creatures
Playtest it a little bit and you'll see that it all works out (splendidly so, in fact). As said above, the dorks let you ramp into more self mill spells and faster use of Unburial Rites. They also make it very possible to ramp into hardcasting your fatties as well.
My only gripe is that I really want to have some removal. I know the deck doesn't need it, but it just feels wrong to me (I always play B so my brain is wired for removal)
My EDH Decks
:Chainer, Dementia Master - Mono black recursion - :Titania - Token hordes
: Teysa - Sacrifice and tokens - : Brago, King Eternal - Blink - :Sygg, River Cutthroat - I draw cards; you discard -
: Melek, Izzet Paragon - Copy spells, don't win.
: Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Card Draw - :Karador, Ghost Chieftain - Graveyard shenanigans - :Tariel, Reckoner of Souls - Angels and Demons theme - :Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Hordes
: Marchesa - Steal and sacrifice - : Shattergang Brothers - Everything gets blown up - : Animar, Soul of Elements - All creatures
I'm thinking
2 Elesh Norn,
2 Jin-Gitaxias,
1 Inferno Titan,
1 Grave Titan
2 Wurmcoil
for the main deck then sideboard something like this
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Ray of Revelation
3 Purify the Grave
3 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Elesh Norn
1 Jin-Gitaxias
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
Most of sideboard is obvious Grudge for most decks with artifacts I dislike even if its just Wolf Runs Inkmoths. Ray is for decks with anthems or oblivion rings, Purify for mirror and maybe Delver to mess with snapcaster and cut off Lingering Souls, Gnaw is to pad my life total verse aggro. Elesh Norn and Jin-Gitaxias come in or go out depending if I'm facing aggro or control and Rune-Scarred Demon at least in theory comes in most matches to find the hate cards but maybe I just want him main deck instead then
Would like to here some thoughts about other possible reanimation targets like Rune-scarred Demon, Myr Battlesphere, and Sheoldred
I'm thinking about Demon it would feel great to have demon another target and one unburial rites in grave then u unburial the demon and go find another unburial rights or in post board matches go find your hate cards with him
Myr Battlesphere seems nice especially if the Planeswalker Control deck picks up in popularity since with its ability you can hit a planewalker even if they have chump blockers and at worse its kinda like a Grave Titan against control which is to say spot removal may kill it but it leaves an army behind
Sheoldred is just nice big creature kills opponents creatures and brings more of yours back
That in mind, I have concerns about how this deck can beat two of the currently best decks in standard, wolfrun and UW delver
Wolfrun is similiarly fast, can burn our mana dorks to bypass us, and our finisher Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is not as threatening to them as they still have their titans. Galvanic Blast is also capable of taking her down in a tradeoff block.
UW delver is quite more vulnerable to Elesh, but they have a lot of controll that could instantly negate any advantage this deck has. Oblivion Ring, Dungeon Geists, Vapor Snag, Mana Leak or even Phantasmal Image are killers here
And that's not touching sideboard hate like Surgical Extraction
The big question is how to rebuild the deck to work around this, something I find hard to do in this deck since the machinery of it consists of far too many cards to allow changes;
The purpose, or core, of the deck is to cast Unburial Rites on Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (or some other fatty) from the graveyard. Failing that, due to ramp it is possible to hard cast her. These cards you need 4 of each for a total of 8
In order to achieve this it has a card draw / discard engine consisting of Mulch + Faithless Looting + Tracker's Instincts in order to consistently throw the core cards into the graveyard. You really need a full playset of each and thus 12 cards for engine, or 20 total
Mana ramp consists of Birds of Paradise + Avacyn's Pilgrim + Llanowar Elves, Levy's list had 9 total cards here, lets go with that for simplicity lets say for a total of 29 cards
Add another 23 lands for 52 cards and it becomes obvious that there isnt much to work with here
Which brings us to the 'free' cards, those who don't directly interact with the concept or core of the deck:
Inferno Titan + Wurmcoil Engine are alternative win conditions, the deck is too vulnerable relying on Elesh alone so an alternative win condition is mandatory, which puts further pressure on the last remaing card:
Lingering Souls is an amazing card, it can provide you with 4 chump blockers, and it interacts well with Elesh on board, but it doesn't solve the issues mentioned above
I honestly don't see where you start shaving off cards in order to improve it's odds against either wolf run or UW delver
I think the deck can atleast stand up to wolfrun after siding out Elesh and bringing in more Wurmcoil Engine and Ancient Grudge but given it's low threat count I don't see how it could ever beat a well played UW delver deck
I love this deck: I threw it together as a one-week only list, and now I'm considering splurging to buy the cards I'm borrowing for it.
My finisher list:
1x Wurmcoil
1x Inferno titan
2x Grave titan
2x Elesh Norn
2x Sheoldred
mainboarded, with the 2 jins sideboard. A complete rework of the sideboard is going to be necessary for a non protour meta, though.
How necessary has memory's journey been for everyone?
Since I have such diverse finishers, I'm not sure how much I mind the opponent extracting one.
Worried about a lot of wolf run in your meta?
Up your wurmcoil and sheoldred count.
If sheoldred sticks and can consistently bring back wurmcoil, the only thing you then need to worry about is inkmoth, which with your other friend (Norn), is null. And God help the conley GB run players, swampwalk says hi.
Thanks for linking that, lots of good info... I'll add it to the first post.
Vorel of the Hull Clade
Reki, the History of Kamigawa (MTGO)
Lavinia of the Tenth (MTGO)
Auriok Survivors and Argentum Armor: Not really ace, but funny when it works. You've got a 10/12 creature that destroys stuff when it swings, sort of like a mini Eldrazi. If they get rid of the creature, you can equip the armor onto the mana dorks. One of my buddies suggested using the blade that becomes a demon. I haven't given that a go yet.
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger: Is very nice too, especially if you can release him on turn 3.
Chancellor of the Annex: Free force spikes every time! It's like a better Thalia on a 5/6 flying body! And if you draw any in the opening hand, it disrupts your opponent, oftentimes stalling them enough for you to get your game on. This is the creature I am most excited about and I am considering relegating the titans and wurmcoils to the sideboard.
Flayer of the Hatebound: Not as poor as you'd expect, but it IS actually pretty decent. It's a relatively fast clock too, seeing as attempts to remove it speeds up your clock.
Yo dawg, I heard you like MTG so we put a game into your game so you can play MTG while you play MTG