Some versions run fewer creatures, some have Research//Development as a 1-of, some run Steppe Lynx, more fetchlands, and Deprive, and I've even seen a version with Goblin Guide. As you can tell from some of the latest developments, this is a hard tempo deck at its core, and it sometimes behaves like a burn deck or Zoo.
I have found this deck to be incredibly resilient and isochron scepter really gives you potential for the lategame. Gifts ungiven package out of the board is really good as well as it evades all artifact hate and gives you a better answer for combo decks. I personally play 2 magma jet over the 3rd geists and cliques as 23 flips for delver + 6 scry spells really helps you flip it early.
Keepable hands depend greatly on the list but generally you want either a hand with delver (even if it has only one land with serum visions that should be enough) or a hand with scepter and a couple of good instants to imprint as stalling until you get scepter will win you game one against a lot of decks. It depends a lot on the version obviously as those with steppe lynx as well really want a one-drop on turn one, etc. I haven't found the deck to fold to anything although I have found storm to be really hard (I dedicate few sideboard slots to it). The deck doesn't really have really easy matchups either; a lot comes down to solid play.
I honestly would not recommend the deck if you have never played it before as it is quite difficult to play and requires you to know your opponents decks really well to know what to play and when.
I've actually been playing Isochron as a creature-less control deck and I've had pretty good results. The only creatures for the whole 75 are 4 meddling mages in the sideboard. I'll have to post a list when I have a chance to write it all out a little later, but it's a lot of aggro hosing and control with Elspeth, Knight Errant and Ajani Vengeant to finish out the game. The only really rough matchup is affinity, but I'm guessing that's going to be hard for pretty much any Isochron build.
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I've been destroying people online with a standard UWR list, no Gifts package in the board. I'm undefeated, beating burn 4 times, martyr twice, affinity, GW tokens, elves, boros, Ad Nauseum, and others. BUT I have yet to play against Jund, which will most likely be a huge portion of the metagame at my upcoming PTQ, and I'm worried that Tempo just won't match up well with it.
Does anyone have experience vs. Jund? How does the match play out? What sideboard cards beat it? Is the Gifts combo good against it?
Silence is a dead card without scepter so no the deck doesn't play it. Lightning helix on a scepter is often already enough to win you the match while also progressing your plan A which is beating down with delvers and burning them out.
I have found Jund to be about fifty-fifty. If you can get scepter and they don't have pulse you should be able to win and even just keeping their threats off the table can often be enough. I like the gifts ungiven package in the board as it negates any artifact removal they board in and makes pulse a slow removal spell and rites into iona is pretty devastating if they don't take your gifts first with thoughtseize.
Does anyone have experience vs. Jund? How does the match play out? What sideboard cards beat it? Is the Gifts combo good against it?
Thanks,
Brad
I've had a little experience with Jund (Game 1s, at least). Isochron Scepter imprinting Lightning Helix is a boss in that match-up because of the zap and life gain (imprinting Bolt just doesn't compare). Imprinting Path to Exile and counterspells aren't shabby, but Helix Scepter is a win-con that fries Liliana OTV. Save your PtEs for Goyf and you should be good.
Jund is also a little slow. I once had a game where they IoK'd me and had to choose between Helix Scepter and Geist of Saint Traft. They chose Scepter. I won on the back of Traft.
Note that, from the above, Jund doesn't have that many ways of dealing with Traft (Liliana, blockers, what?), so he is also an MVP in that match-up.
Sometimes you keep an iffier hand and they discard and card advantage the snot out of you, though.
This is no different than what we're seeing as "Patriot Control" right, cept that not every deck runs Isochron Scepter?
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Would Patriot Control be like the "UWR Snap-Friends" deck in Deck Creation? If so, this is a much higher-octane, fast-tempo version. I don't think that deck runs Delver of Secrets, and to me, that card alone shoves this archetype towards being faster and less prone to casting counterspells.
In fact, the latest evolutions of this deck seem to be verging towards Zoo, not control. See Joseph_K's Modern Daily list below:
It runs some of Zoo's hard-hitters (Steppe Lynx, Geist of Saint Traft), full playsets of Zoo's premier removal spells, a ton of fetchlands, only 4 counterspells, and plenty of burn.
So no, I don't think this is the same deck as Patriot Control.
...Of course, if I defined Patriot Control wrong, and the decklist above really is an example of Patriot Control, then this is no different. (I call the decklist above "New Blue Zoo", anyway, but I'd allow discussion of lists like that here.)
Would Patriot Control be like the "UWR Snap-Friends" deck in Deck Creation? If so, this is a much higher-octane, fast-tempo version. I don't think that deck runs Delver of Secrets, and to me, that card alone shoves this archetype towards being faster and less prone to casting counterspells.
In fact, the latest evolutions of this deck seem to be verging towards Zoo, not control. See Joseph_K's Modern Daily list below:
It runs some of Zoo's hard-hitters (Steppe Lynx, Geist of Saint Traft), full playsets of Zoo's premier removal spells, a ton of fetchlands, only 4 counterspells, and plenty of burn.
So no, I don't think this is the same deck as Patriot Control.
...Of course, if I defined Patriot Control wrong, and the decklist above really is an example of Patriot Control, then this is no different. (I call the decklist above "New Blue Zoo", anyway, but I'd allow discussion of lists like that here.)
Delver is the fair Nacatyl after all so this makes sense. I actually saw a Domain style Delver deck. It ran Goyf, Delver, Bob, and Goblin Guide. With Path's being the only main board white card. They had 3 Thalia in the side but the deck went more of the Tribal Flames blowout route that BLue Zoo was running.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Delver is the fair Nacatyl after all so this makes sense. I actually saw a Domain style Delver deck. It ran Goyf, Delver, Bob, and Goblin Guide. With Path's being the only main board white card. They had 3 Thalia in the side but the deck went more of the Tribal Flames blowout route that BLue Zoo was running.
Insect Zoo? Plus ca le meme chose, plus ca change.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Snapfriends as the thread is defined (I made the thread) isn't really anything like this. Snapfriends as it's defined is supposed to be a midrange tempo deck that drops eot threats, then backs them up off planeswalkers, while controllling the board with efficient burn and counterspells. The only thing the two decks really have in common is a few spells, and a similar color pie.
That's just not the gameplan of Isochron Tempo.
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Find me online - I'm on Cockatrice * Tag - Badd B - Or on MTGO - Tag - Cbus05
Ischron almost never never gets played game 2 or 3 unless i were playing ub control if thats really a deck so idk about the scepters they are great game 1 but i am like the tribal flames route a lil better
Whats the plan against Choke..? Card is a ***** against this deck lol.
Never seen anyone SB choke because its too slow and easy to remove. (Disenchant, Green Removal, or just simply counter it).
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I haven't seen anyone running choke, although I agree that it is quite annoying. I think you can still win through it unless you kept a really slow hand.
Honestly, I cannot see dropping white as path to exile really helps against annoying creatures like kitchen finks, goyf, as well as being a great snapcaster target. Dropping red black makes a completely different deck.
I haven't played against any decks playing worship either, although that card is definitely more annoying. I have 3 disenchant sideboard and 1 into the roil in the main.
I haven't seen many lists playing into the roil, but I would seriously recommend it as a one-of because you can dig for it relatively well, makes for a good scepter target, cantrips and gets rid of problem permanents game one.
So I am now fully vested in this deck as I have completed all of my pieces that I need as of today. I have a couple of questions for you who have played this.
1) how necessary is Remand vs Mana Leak?
2) what are some of the horrible match ups that I can prepare for?
3) what is the advantage and disadvantage of Step Lynx vs Vendilion
I am taking this to Grand Prix Yokohama as well as a PTQ. I would appreciate some logical feed back.
I don't like steppe lynx honestly. He's an all or nothing type card. I also really like saint traft as another tough to beat threat. With all the removal the deck plays its not difficult to kill blockers. Depending on the Meta a single lavamancer could be maindecked. I also don't care for the scepter. Too often its a two for one. So I cut them to two copies. Vendilion clique is good disruption and has evasion but I'd rather have the saint as my three drop if I had to choose.
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Here's a sample decklist--it's a bit of an evolved version with Geist of Saint Traft:
1 Arid Mesa
2 Celestial Colonnade
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
Spells
4 Isochron Scepter
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
3 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
Some versions run fewer creatures, some have Research//Development as a 1-of, some run Steppe Lynx, more fetchlands, and Deprive, and I've even seen a version with Goblin Guide. As you can tell from some of the latest developments, this is a hard tempo deck at its core, and it sometimes behaves like a burn deck or Zoo.
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I honestly would not recommend the deck if you have never played it before as it is quite difficult to play and requires you to know your opponents decks really well to know what to play and when.
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If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
Does anyone have experience vs. Jund? How does the match play out? What sideboard cards beat it? Is the Gifts combo good against it?
Thanks,
Brad
I have found Jund to be about fifty-fifty. If you can get scepter and they don't have pulse you should be able to win and even just keeping their threats off the table can often be enough. I like the gifts ungiven package in the board as it negates any artifact removal they board in and makes pulse a slow removal spell and rites into iona is pretty devastating if they don't take your gifts first with thoughtseize.
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I've had a little experience with Jund (Game 1s, at least). Isochron Scepter imprinting Lightning Helix is a boss in that match-up because of the zap and life gain (imprinting Bolt just doesn't compare). Imprinting Path to Exile and counterspells aren't shabby, but Helix Scepter is a win-con that fries Liliana OTV. Save your PtEs for Goyf and you should be good.
Jund is also a little slow. I once had a game where they IoK'd me and had to choose between Helix Scepter and Geist of Saint Traft. They chose Scepter. I won on the back of Traft.
Note that, from the above, Jund doesn't have that many ways of dealing with Traft (Liliana, blockers, what?), so he is also an MVP in that match-up.
Sometimes you keep an iffier hand and they discard and card advantage the snot out of you, though.
In fact, the latest evolutions of this deck seem to be verging towards Zoo, not control. See Joseph_K's Modern Daily list below:
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Steam Vents
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Steppe Lynx
Spells
2 Burst Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
4 Serum Visions
3 Combust
4 Kor Firewalker
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Volcanic Fallout
It runs some of Zoo's hard-hitters (Steppe Lynx, Geist of Saint Traft), full playsets of Zoo's premier removal spells, a ton of fetchlands, only 4 counterspells, and plenty of burn.
So no, I don't think this is the same deck as Patriot Control.
...Of course, if I defined Patriot Control wrong, and the decklist above really is an example of Patriot Control, then this is no different. (I call the decklist above "New Blue Zoo", anyway, but I'd allow discussion of lists like that here.)
Delver is the fair Nacatyl after all so this makes sense. I actually saw a Domain style Delver deck. It ran Goyf, Delver, Bob, and Goblin Guide. With Path's being the only main board white card. They had 3 Thalia in the side but the deck went more of the Tribal Flames blowout route that BLue Zoo was running.
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Insect Zoo? Plus ca le meme chose, plus ca change.
That's just not the gameplan of Isochron Tempo.
Based on the results we've seen the most commonly dropped color is actually White.
Never seen anyone SB choke because its too slow and easy to remove. (Disenchant, Green Removal, or just simply counter it).
Some Melira Combo pod deck was running it yesterday in a MTGO daily, and the Bant decks are running Worship as well.
Honestly, I cannot see dropping white as path to exile really helps against annoying creatures like kitchen finks, goyf, as well as being a great snapcaster target. Dropping red black makes a completely different deck.
I haven't played against any decks playing worship either, although that card is definitely more annoying. I have 3 disenchant sideboard and 1 into the roil in the main.
I haven't seen many lists playing into the roil, but I would seriously recommend it as a one-of because you can dig for it relatively well, makes for a good scepter target, cantrips and gets rid of problem permanents game one.
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1) how necessary is Remand vs Mana Leak?
2) what are some of the horrible match ups that I can prepare for?
3) what is the advantage and disadvantage of Step Lynx vs Vendilion
I am taking this to Grand Prix Yokohama as well as a PTQ. I would appreciate some logical feed back.
Thanks,
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
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