Ancient Grudge means that you can't relay on powerful artifacts like Pod, Swords or Mimic Vat to win you the game.
Stonehorn / Venser is a powerful lock that is shatter-proof and gives you time to get out Titan/Norn shenannigans. I would also reccommend having more than one Stonehorn available after SB.
p.s. I think you're playing it wrong if you don't get any pod activations. You should get at least one out of each pod.
Ancient Grudge means that you can't relay on powerful artifacts like Pod, Swords or Mimic Vat to win you the game.
Stonehorn / Venser is a powerful lock that is shatter-proof and gives you time to get out Titan/Norn shenannigans. I would also reccommend having more than one Stonehorn available after SB.
p.s. I think you're playing it wrong if you don't get any pod activations. You should get at least one out of each pod.
So let's say I board in an extra Stonehorn, and assume I'm running as many as 2 Venser. I now have 2 of each post board. Do you really think it is likely that I will hit one of each before I'm dead? Mind you this scenario is against either Wolf Run or RG Aggro, both unbelievably fast decks that we don't have many ways of holding off until we get said combo.
-I added the 2 Mortarpod because 1, it synergises well with undying and 2, you flat out lose to a T1 flipped delver otherwise.
-Mana base is atrocious as far as double UU is concerned. Stormbound is the hardest card to cast with no form of fixing whatsoever.
-Stormbound is probably the worst card in the deck. Sure it can block the 4/4 Angel a couple of times, but you're not actually dealing with the original threat, even a voiceless spirit would've been good. At least if your strangleroot gets snagged, you can play it and still bash for 2. You get this snagged you just lose. I'm honestly thinking of taking some of them out.
-Strangleroot into Captain is by far the best play, not close.
-Titans are pretty irrelevant in this matchup
And now you see why I maindeck one Fiend Hunter. It's very useful against Delver. If they Snag him, not only does it return their Delver to play unflipped, but you can also just recast.
I've also been disliking the Titans in this build. I would never use Sun, but I've kept a single Frost in their just for those times when you have an opportunity to pod out of a 5-drop. Do you think a 2nd Stonehorn might work out better than a Titan?
Also, what was your sideboard like and how did you board for the Delver match-up? I honestly had an easier time against Delver than any other (non-rogue) deck in my testing. The Esper version is laughable and the Mageblade version isn't much harder.
So let's say I board in an extra Stonehorn, and assume I'm running as many as 2 Venser. I now have 2 of each post board. Do you really think it is likely that I will hit one of each before I'm dead? Mind you this scenario is against either Wolf Run or RG Aggro, both unbelievably fast decks that we don't have many ways of holding off until we get said combo.
I'm not sure that I'd classify Wolf Run as 'unbelievably fast', since they seem like another ramp deck, and moreover, a slightly slower ramp deck than us. I would imagine that in general the cards that are best against each deck vary slightly depending on the matchup.
What do you think are the good options to SB against RG decks? Currently I like Acidic Slime, Stonehorn, Venser, Fiend Hunter (and maybe Sword of Feast and Famine).
What do you think are the best options, assuming an unlimited SB, and what is your plan with your specific SB?
I've also been disliking the Titans in this build. I would never use Sun, but I've kept a single Frost in their just for those times when you have an opportunity to pod out of a 5-drop. Do you think a 2nd Stonehorn might work out better than a Titan?
This wasn't directed at me, but wouldn't another Phantasmal Image be better than Sun Titan in Geist-Pod?
I'm not sure that I'd classify Wolf Run as 'unbelievably fast', since they seem like another ramp deck, and moreover, a slightly slower ramp deck than us. I would imagine that in general the cards that are best against each deck vary slightly depending on the matchup.
There's a guy at my LGS who still plays WRR relentlessly. I'm forced to play against him regularly (our shop pairs by last name, and I'm B while he's D) and let me tell you.. The deck is fast. He lands turn 4 almost every time I play against him. Trampling for 12 on turn 5 hurts, and it only gets worse from there.
What do you think are the good options to SB against RG decks? Currently I like Acidic Slime, Stonehorn, Venser, Fiend Hunter (and maybe Sword of Feast and Famine).
What do you think are the best options, assuming an unlimited SB, and what is your plan with your specific SB?
Go back to the previous page where I posted my updated Geist-pod list. I outlined my sideboard strategy for RG and Wolf Run. Just replace instants of Angelic Destiny with Increasing Savagery.
Fore regular Bant pod, I couldn't say. I would need to test the deck more first. Acidic Slime and Stonehorn would both be huge for any RG match-up though, I'll give you that. So much that it might be worth to pack as many as 3 of each in the 75. Pair that with 2 maindeck Venser and RG shouldn't be a problem. But then I'd be worried about how many slots we're dedicating to that match-up. What have you found to be the most difficult archetype to play against? I still think Zombie.dec is Bant's worst enemy. Though I haven't tried the 3x Stonehorn thing. Seems huge against them...
This wasn't directed at me, but wouldn't another Phantasmal Image be better than Sun Titan in Geist-Pod?
Yeah, probably. I've been wanting to go up to 2 Images in my build, but definitely want to keep all 3 Metamorphs. I don't run Sun Titan at all, but I might consider dropping my Frost for another Image.
Why would Increasing Savagery be a good card vs Wolf Run in geist-pod, but a bad card in regular Bant? It seems like it's just worse card in geist-pod since it turns undying off.
Why would Increasing Savagery be a good card vs Wolf Run in geist-pod, but a bad card in regular Bant? It seems like it's just worse card in geist-pod since it turns undying off.
If I had to guess, I'd say it's because Geist-Pod has more flyers than regular Bant Pod. +5/+5 is significantly more relevant when you can reliably hit them with it each turn, rather than getting tied up on the ground.
If Grafdigger's Cage is real in your meta, why play a deck full of undying creatures?
Never said it was. Just said that it exist. I'm trying to hint to people that this deck can work without pod and if needed, we could keep 3 acidic slimes and 4 naturalizes in the list so we can play around it once it starts to pop up. I see too many 'what if they play this deck and these cards' and were slightly turning it into some 60 card commander deck.
As far as I know I'm the only person in my meta that abuses any kind of graveyard interaction other than the kids that squeal when they unpack their 7th snapcaster mage.
And I'm playing with undying creatures because they are f*ing awesome.
Why would Increasing Savagery be a good card vs Wolf Run in geist-pod, but a bad card in regular Bant? It seems like it's just worse card in geist-pod since it turns undying off.
Did I say it would be bad in regular Bant pod? Or even worse than in Geist-pod? I don't think that I did.. could be wrong.
But there is the fact that Geist-pod has more fliers than regular Bant.
I've been wondering, how good/versatile is Purify the Grave on SBs? I see it as an awesome tech against Frites and UB Control, as it's instant speed so you're not telegraphing your move like a Nihil Spellbomb would.
You said that it was your SB plan in Geist-pod, but then didn't even list it as an option in regular bant. What's a girl to think?
Ahh I see. I guess my thought process was that regular Bant probably wouldn't be boarding in Invisible Stalker, so suggesting Increasing Savagery didn't occur to me. Plus the fact that I already mentioned about how traditional Bant pod doesn't have near the fliers (to carry the +1 counters) as Geist-pod.
Still wouldn't be a terrible sb option though. Saves your dudes from Slagstorms and generally makes stuff big enough to block a titan without trading.
Tested at GPT today with Geist Pod, 5 rounds (Already have the byes, so just trolling mostly).
Round 1: Turned up late, 0-1
Round 2: R(G)DW, 1-1
Stonehorn is huge in this matchup and so is Stormbound/Strangleroot Geist.
G1: Active Pod, G2: He curves out Noble-Berserker-Phoenix-Koth, G3: T2 SRG halts his Noble, T3 SBG halts his phoenix, Frost titan to finish.
Round 3: Mono B Zombies 2-1
SBG is terrible, luckily I had an active pod. G2 because he wasn't playing blue, boarded in Geists/Thruns and just proceeded to beat down.
Round 4: RG Aggro 2-2
SBG is terrible (again), couldn't even cast it anyway since my birds were dying and couldn't hit double U. G2 siding out all artifacts (Leaving 2 metamorphs), early SRG applied some pressure, then triple Drogskol finished the deal. G3 Mull to 5, couldn't cast anything except for a captain.
Round 5, UB Zombies 2-3
SBG -_-, he curved out with double captains, messenger and images while I got stuck with a couple of SBG hitting 4 a turn (No white source to cast Drogskol), not close. G2 he curves out again into an obliterator with a SoWaP on it and I can't remember what happened after that (I think I told someone to just kick me in the balls real hard).
In 4 rounds, I mulliganed a total of 6 times. This deck needs a better mana base before going forward.
Call to the Kindred is just something Im testing out, since double drogskols hexproof is easily achieved with Phantasmal Image. Just throw it on a drogskol chilling in the back. Its worked pretty well so far on keeping pressure on when pod is out of sight. Sometimes you whiff with it, but usually its able to grab something. Probably will end up getting cut for more relevant things.
Caravan Vigil is another little thing im testing out. The mana for this deck is just ridiculously hard to pull off, but it is possible. I felt a T1 mana fixer was necessary, and BOP just experience too much hate in current standard to be reliable mana fixing. Early game it mana fixes, mid game it pushes you into Titan range. Also the fact that it puts the land into your hand rather than tapped onto the field is actually alright. Trade a green mana for a land drop in a color you need.
Why not Rampant Growth or Sphere of the Suns? I tried them, but T2 really needs to be StrangleRoot, the extra mana required to cast them seemed to hurt more often than it helped.
As much as I want Gavony Township or Moorland Haunt to be in here, I dont think the mana base can support colorless lands.
Stormbound does seem to be the weakest link here, but podding from Stormbound to Metamorph, copying pod, podding Stormbound again into Dungeon Geists is just fun.
Im wondering if maybe this build should just forgo the upper cmc creatures, just using pod to multiply and increase the strength of your spirit army? Maybe run some spells like Mana Leak, Ponder, etc. Has anyone tried such a build? Not necessarily with spirits but something with counters? more tempo-ish?
Mana issues aren't as frequent if you have white more dominant than blue because of only one enemy fixing cycle. Thus the blue spirits look to me like a big problem, frankly, as powerful as they are with their Captain.
I am very much with the previous poster about the ridiculousness of bird-hate. Slip, fume spitters, gutshot, galv blast, arc trail, mortarpod, I've seen it all. I reluctantly cut the Pilgrims a while back for Emissaries because they only made white, and if something is going to die anyway it's at least going to get me that freaking mana. With zombies and humans out there, the worst the Emissary does is fog + rampant growth, but very often trades. I didn't consider Vigil but I'm glad you brought it up, I want to test it now. It usually means not as much haste, but it's almost like a green cantrip. With the curve of spirits being so low it might not be so noticeable.
Perhaps you should just send WOTC a resume and tell them why you're better at Magic than one of their employees instead of complaining here, where nobody really has any authority on the matter.
I've been having great results with this deck, winning Game day a few weeks ago and placing in the top of the last month's FNMs with various iterations. The deck plays more heavily into Stonehorn Dignitary than some (with two in the main deck) and more Swords to put some early pressure until we get the mana to either hardcast a 6 or 7 cmc, or the Pod chain can start working.
Some of the odder choices:
Green Sun: This doubles as an extra mana dork early game, a short circuit to the top half of the Pod chain to grab the Acidic Slime late. It also provides access to most of my sideboard post board (and an extra Green Sun there as well when I'm depending on it to get around artifact hate.)
3 Swords: This is huge early pressure. I'll change my game strategy a bit if I can play a second turn sword, third turn equip/swing with a BoP. If I'm lucky enough to have Feast and Famine, I can untap my three lands on turn 3 and drop a Pod after for a very explosive start. I've monkeyed with my Sword breakdown going between 1-2 of each. 2x Feast and Famine may be the right call.
Geist-Honored Monk: Some have criticized her for not being able to get around our biggest problems, sweepers. This is true, but my meta is quite heavy with Delver, Tokens and Tempered Steel, and her flyers provide a lot of extra time for me to get my board position where I need it. She also provides a super aggressive target for Venser to help close our games, generating two flyers each blink (and copying her with an Image is equally devastating.) I could see going down to 1 in the deck, but as it sits I'm pretty happy with her.
Fiend Hunter: I actually play this guy on my own Stonehorn Dignitary more frequently than on my opponents creatures. After I Pod out of him into either a Metamorph or a second Stonehorn I can get a two turn attack lock on my opponent that lets me play much more aggressively, especially if I have Venser out and can take advantage of his -1 two turns in a row to steal the win. Alternately, he provides much lacking removal.
The Sideboard:
This is extremely meta driven, but I'll explain the odder choices Melira, Sylvok Outcast - I'm playing against a ton of decks running Black Sun's Zenith. I can fetch her with my Green Sun or pod an extra dork into her and force them to either kill her or lose their best board sweeper. It also gives me a couple of turns against WRR/Tempered if they've opted for a poison strategy, but I'm not sure I'd even side her in vs. Ramp/TS all the time.
Mimic Vat - This is being used more often to remove Undying creatures than offensively, and it is fantastic. If they play a Strangleroot Geist and it dies, just pull it into the Vat and it won't return. If you find a better death target later, fantastic, do the same and the Geist goes to their graveyard (it hasn't died when it leaves the Vat.) Obviously the same holds for B/u Zombies, which I've found to be a tough matchup.
3 Revoke Existence - Removes Grafdigger's Cage, which justifies the slot enough for me considering Zombies and Frites are in the Meta and the Cages are a common sideboard against them, making them easily accessible to use against us.
Moshne, your list looks very interesting. Some points:
1 Since it's so reliant on Stonehorn Dignitary, have you considered running a copy or two of Venser for the lock?
2 You have 4 dudes that cost WW. I have found it necessary to run 2 Plains in my deck for searching purposes (over Evolving Wilds?).
3 I don't really see where you have room for it, but your list looks like it will play quite similarly to mine, and I have found quads Blade Splicer and a singleton Wing Splicer to be quite awesome. I don't know what two cards you would cut for them though.
4 I currently run 2 Seachrome Coast over a forest and Hinterland Harbour in your list (although I'm not enamoured of them). Did you consider coasts? What made you go away from them?
Again, the monk isn't really that great. I don't care about the random crap and singletons become worse the more you add. If you put value in ONE card then you're going to get lucky or wrecked. My money is on wrecked. Keep it simple.
Actually, Geist Honored Monk is awesome. I think that it's definitely the best 5 drop behind Acidic Slime, and actually preferable to slime where you need board position more than value.
I agree it doesn't look like much, but it's a meta card. Just like how RG decks sideboard Wrack with Madness to deal with Phyrexian Obliterator. The Naya Pod decks (which are all about consistency over toolbox compared to Bant) that did well at the PT all played the Monk. There's a reason for that.
So what's the meta condition? I can see where you're coming from, I just don't know where to put her in. She's like a Lingering Souls that can provide a fat body. My problem is that that fat body wont stick. Her spirits will, hoping you've gotten some Drogskol Captains on board, and if that's the case, why not just run Midnight Haunting? Swinging with everything then using it for blockers, potentially double Rebuke. The opponent will be sitting on targeted removal if things are going as planned with this deck.
There's a reason no deck simply runs every card as a 4x.
I'm just being stubborn. I don't like too many 1-2 of's and I will avoid it with any sound reasoning, meta call or generic opponent decks in mind. With that in mind, I almost want to pod into a Drogskol Reaver. No, I don't think it's a good choice in the same reasoning I won't run Elesh Norn. That 7 mana cost... I'd rather it be hard cast and not podded. Coming from 6? What do we pod for 6 that we don't mind doing it to? Wurmcoil? Which I don't want, either? Maybe? Damn! Pod decks have too many choices.
So what's the meta condition? I can see where you're coming from, I just don't know where to put her in. She's like a Lingering Souls that can provide a fat body. My problem is that that fat body wont stick. Her spirits will, hoping you've gotten some Drogskol Captains on board, and if that's the case, why not just run Midnight Haunting? Swinging with everything then using it for blockers, potentially double Rebuke. The opponent will be sitting on targeted removal if things are going as planned with this deck.
I'm just being stubborn. I don't like too many 1-2 of's and I will avoid it with any sound reasoning, meta call or generic opponent decks in mind. With that in mind, I almost want to pod into a Drogskol Reaver. No, I don't think it's a good choice in the same reasoning I won't run Elesh Norn. That 7 mana cost... I'd rather it be hard cast and not podded. Coming from 6? What do we pod for 6 that we don't mind doing it to? Wurmcoil? Which I don't want, either? Maybe? Damn! Pod decks have too many choices.
ALL of the top Naya and Bant builds at the PT ran elesh norn, except for Elias Watsfeldt's Bant deck (that ran Feeling of Dread instead).
You are wrong to not include Elesh Norn in your deck. She is freaking nuts. She is made of win. All the creature decks just lose on the spot when you get her out, while the titan decks are crippled.
So why not keep GHM in the sideboard for when you're playing against flyers? Idk..Honestly I've never been impressed with GHM. I've tried running it in many different decks, from Birthing Pod to Tokens. And she never earns her keep. I could see packing 1 in the sideboard in case of Esper Spirit Delver, but let's be honest here..that deck is on its way out.
ALL of the top Naya and Bant builds at the PT ran elesh norn, except for Elias Watsfeldt's Bant deck (that ran Feeling of Dread instead).
None of those Naya or Bant builds were built around synergy between their 2-4 drops. They were built to get to the top of the chain asap, hence Elesh Norn and Wurmcoil. Geist-pod can easily develop a very scary board position without ever going above CMC 4. I'm not saying Geist-pod is better than Naya pod, because it probably isn't. But it's just a different strategy.
You are wrong to not include Elesh Norn in your deck. She is freaking nuts. She is made of win. All the creature decks just lose on the spot when you get her out, while the titan decks are crippled.
This makes you sound unintelligent. Take your head out of classic pod's booty for a moment and open your eyes. Geist-pod is a different deck. It doesn't need Elesh Norn, nor does it have deck space for the amount of 6 drops (+ Norn) that would be required to suppliment such a card. Nothing above CMC 4 has any synergy with this deck (don't say GHM). Show me a Geist-pod list that includes Elesh Norn and I'll show you a deck that's trying to do too much. If you want to win via Elesh Norn, there is no reason to play Geist-pod. Just play regular pod.
I'm not saying this because I don't like your suggestions and am choosing to be stubborn. I'm saying this because I tried very hard to make Elesh Norn and Geist-Honored Monk fit into Geist-pod. There's simply no reason to run them here. It clogged up the CMC chain, forcing me to cut cards along the way, decreasing overall consistency, only to hope that nothing obstructs my path to the almighty Norn. GHM is simply outclassed by other cards in the deck, namely; Stormbound Geist, Drogskol Captain, and Dungeon Geists. I'm not saying GHM is a bad card. It's definitely needed in Bant pod and Naya pod, where opposing flyers can create problems. It's not needed in Geist-pod, since flyers are never a problem. Elesh Norn creates a very oppressive and hard-to-recover-from board position (provided they don't have a Doom Blade or something similar). The advantage of not running Norn, and instead running Geist-pod is that your draws are inevitably more consistent since your creatures have built-in synergy, and also that you will almost always have the mana to hardcast what you need to, unlike traditional pod where you can get stuck with Titans and Norn in your opening hand and thus are tempted to mulligan since you might be walking into a loss (never getting enough mana to cast the fatties).
I like the Geist Pod idea. It's a similar idea to Zombie Pod. Increased synergy in the early mana slots. Elesh is an outrageously great card, but if you want her, you need to add a few more cards, and it'll stretch you out more. I'm unsure if she's a good or bad idea, though.
So why not keep GHM in the sideboard for when you're playing against flyers? Idk..Honestly I've never been impressed with GHM. I've tried running it in many different decks, from Birthing Pod to Tokens. And she never earns her keep. I could see packing 1 in the sideboard in case of Esper Spirit Delver, but let's be honest here..that deck is on its way out.
Sure, that's a possibility. However, in play (granted, with a Blade Splicer build, not Geist pod) I have found that GHM is better than the 2nd Acidic Slime, and definitely better than the 3rd one.
Geist-pod can easily develop a very scary board position without ever going above CMC 4. I'm not saying Geist-pod is better than Naya pod, because it probably isn't. But it's just a different strategy.
How often do you pod from 4 to 5? Because I can see how if you are always getting a metamorph from 3-4, you won't have a 4CC card to search up 5 drops with.
Take your head out of classic pod's booty for a moment and open your eyes. Geist-pod is a different deck. It doesn't need Elesh Norn, nor does it have deck space for the amount of 6 drops (+ Norn) that would be required to suppliment such a card. Nothing above CMC 4 has any synergy with this deck (don't say GHM). Show me a Geist-pod list that includes Elesh Norn and I'll show you a deck that's trying to do too much.
Just out of interest, how has Geist-pod been doing in tournaments? I'm not trying to *get* you, I just think that pod had a breakout showing at the PT, but seems to have vanished in all of it's forms from tournament results since then. Bant and Naya are 'proven' as being good, but I think that all of the other flavours (geist, Junk, Jund, Rock, BUG) are essentially unproven decks.
I'm not saying this because I don't like your suggestions and am choosing to be stubborn. I'm saying this because I tried very hard to make Elesh Norn and Geist-Honored Monk fit into Geist-pod. There's simply no reason to run them here. It clogged up the CMC chain, forcing me to cut cards along the way, decreasing overall consistency, only to hope that nothing obstructs my path to the almighty Norn. GHM is simply outclassed by other cards in the deck, namely; Stormbound Geist, Drogskol Captain, and Dungeon Geists. I'm not saying GHM is a bad card. It's definitely needed in Bant pod and Naya pod, where opposing flyers can create problems. It's not needed in Geist-pod, since flyers are never a problem.
Yeah, I can see this for the Geist build. The trouble is, this is the Bant thread
Also, why run so many acidic slimes then? Why run any titans at all?
Elesh Norn creates a very oppressive and hard-to-recover-from board position (provided they don't have a Doom Blade or something similar). The advantage of not running Norn, and instead running Geist-pod is that your draws are inevitably more consistent since your creatures have built-in synergy, and also that you will almost always have the mana to hardcast what you need to, unlike traditional pod where you can get stuck with Titans and Norn in your opening hand and thus are tempted to mulligan since you might be walking into a loss (never getting enough mana to cast the fatties).
That's true. However, Elesh norn is a transcendant fatty. There's a whole nother deck built around her (Frites). She sees play in both modern and legacy. She is one of the most powerful fatties every printed.
I guess if your curve stops at 4 and you don't have a plan to chain from 5-7 then I can see how Elesh would be superfluous. It's just that I really *really* like that chaining sequence with Phantasmal Image (Image a 5 drop, pod the image away for a Sun titan, copy Sun Titan, then next turn pod the Image away for an Elesh Norn, copy Sun Titan when it attacks, basically win).
I was wondering what all of you think of Fiend Hunter in an aggressive variant of Bant? (4 blade splicers, skaab[?], 3+ geist, 3+ phantasmal, etc...) I'm seeing if it's worth putting him in, but it seems the meta is too fast....
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Stonehorn / Venser is a powerful lock that is shatter-proof and gives you time to get out Titan/Norn shenannigans. I would also reccommend having more than one Stonehorn available after SB.
p.s. I think you're playing it wrong if you don't get any pod activations. You should get at least one out of each pod.
So let's say I board in an extra Stonehorn, and assume I'm running as many as 2 Venser. I now have 2 of each post board. Do you really think it is likely that I will hit one of each before I'm dead? Mind you this scenario is against either Wolf Run or RG Aggro, both unbelievably fast decks that we don't have many ways of holding off until we get said combo.
And now you see why I maindeck one Fiend Hunter. It's very useful against Delver. If they Snag him, not only does it return their Delver to play unflipped, but you can also just recast.
I've also been disliking the Titans in this build. I would never use Sun, but I've kept a single Frost in their just for those times when you have an opportunity to pod out of a 5-drop. Do you think a 2nd Stonehorn might work out better than a Titan?
Also, what was your sideboard like and how did you board for the Delver match-up? I honestly had an easier time against Delver than any other (non-rogue) deck in my testing. The Esper version is laughable and the Mageblade version isn't much harder.
Draft My Cube!
I'm not sure that I'd classify Wolf Run as 'unbelievably fast', since they seem like another ramp deck, and moreover, a slightly slower ramp deck than us. I would imagine that in general the cards that are best against each deck vary slightly depending on the matchup.
What do you think are the good options to SB against RG decks? Currently I like Acidic Slime, Stonehorn, Venser, Fiend Hunter (and maybe Sword of Feast and Famine).
What do you think are the best options, assuming an unlimited SB, and what is your plan with your specific SB?
This wasn't directed at me, but wouldn't another Phantasmal Image be better than Sun Titan in Geist-Pod?
There's a guy at my LGS who still plays WRR relentlessly. I'm forced to play against him regularly (our shop pairs by last name, and I'm B while he's D) and let me tell you.. The deck is fast. He lands turn 4 almost every time I play against him. Trampling for 12 on turn 5 hurts, and it only gets worse from there.
Go back to the previous page where I posted my updated Geist-pod list. I outlined my sideboard strategy for RG and Wolf Run. Just replace instants of Angelic Destiny with Increasing Savagery.
Fore regular Bant pod, I couldn't say. I would need to test the deck more first. Acidic Slime and Stonehorn would both be huge for any RG match-up though, I'll give you that. So much that it might be worth to pack as many as 3 of each in the 75. Pair that with 2 maindeck Venser and RG shouldn't be a problem. But then I'd be worried about how many slots we're dedicating to that match-up. What have you found to be the most difficult archetype to play against? I still think Zombie.dec is Bant's worst enemy. Though I haven't tried the 3x Stonehorn thing. Seems huge against them...
Yeah, probably. I've been wanting to go up to 2 Images in my build, but definitely want to keep all 3 Metamorphs. I don't run Sun Titan at all, but I might consider dropping my Frost for another Image.
Draft My Cube!
If I had to guess, I'd say it's because Geist-Pod has more flyers than regular Bant Pod. +5/+5 is significantly more relevant when you can reliably hit them with it each turn, rather than getting tied up on the ground.
Never said it was. Just said that it exist. I'm trying to hint to people that this deck can work without pod and if needed, we could keep 3 acidic slimes and 4 naturalizes in the list so we can play around it once it starts to pop up. I see too many 'what if they play this deck and these cards' and were slightly turning it into some 60 card commander deck.
As far as I know I'm the only person in my meta that abuses any kind of graveyard interaction other than the kids that squeal when they unpack their 7th snapcaster mage.
And I'm playing with undying creatures because they are f*ing awesome.
Did I say it would be bad in regular Bant pod? Or even worse than in Geist-pod? I don't think that I did.. could be wrong.
But there is the fact that Geist-pod has more fliers than regular Bant.
Draft My Cube!
You said that it was your SB plan in Geist-pod, but then didn't even list it as an option in regular bant. What's a girl to think?
Also, do you guys have trouble with Nephalia Drownyard?
My old nickname was lockheart87.
Ahh I see. I guess my thought process was that regular Bant probably wouldn't be boarding in Invisible Stalker, so suggesting Increasing Savagery didn't occur to me. Plus the fact that I already mentioned about how traditional Bant pod doesn't have near the fliers (to carry the +1 counters) as Geist-pod.
Still wouldn't be a terrible sb option though. Saves your dudes from Slagstorms and generally makes stuff big enough to block a titan without trading.
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Round 1: Turned up late, 0-1
Round 2: R(G)DW, 1-1
Stonehorn is huge in this matchup and so is Stormbound/Strangleroot Geist.
G1: Active Pod, G2: He curves out Noble-Berserker-Phoenix-Koth, G3: T2 SRG halts his Noble, T3 SBG halts his phoenix, Frost titan to finish.
Round 3: Mono B Zombies 2-1
SBG is terrible, luckily I had an active pod. G2 because he wasn't playing blue, boarded in Geists/Thruns and just proceeded to beat down.
Round 4: RG Aggro 2-2
SBG is terrible (again), couldn't even cast it anyway since my birds were dying and couldn't hit double U. G2 siding out all artifacts (Leaving 2 metamorphs), early SRG applied some pressure, then triple Drogskol finished the deal. G3 Mull to 5, couldn't cast anything except for a captain.
Round 5, UB Zombies 2-3
SBG -_-, he curved out with double captains, messenger and images while I got stuck with a couple of SBG hitting 4 a turn (No white source to cast Drogskol), not close. G2 he curves out again into an obliterator with a SoWaP on it and I can't remember what happened after that (I think I told someone to just kick me in the balls real hard).
In 4 rounds, I mulliganed a total of 6 times. This deck needs a better mana base before going forward.
4x StrangleRoot Geist
4x Phantasmal Image
4x Drogskol Captain
3x Stormbound Geist
1x Fiend Hunter
2x Dungeon Geists
2x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Stonehorn Dignitary
1x Acidic Slime
1x Sun Titan
1x Frost Titan
1x Elesh Norn
Artifacts 4
4x Birthing Pod
Enchantments 2
2x Call to the Kindred
4x Caravan Vigil
Land 23
8x Forest
6x Island
1x Plains
4x Hinterland Harbor
4x Razorverge Thicket
Call to the Kindred is just something Im testing out, since double drogskols hexproof is easily achieved with Phantasmal Image. Just throw it on a drogskol chilling in the back. Its worked pretty well so far on keeping pressure on when pod is out of sight. Sometimes you whiff with it, but usually its able to grab something. Probably will end up getting cut for more relevant things.
Caravan Vigil is another little thing im testing out. The mana for this deck is just ridiculously hard to pull off, but it is possible. I felt a T1 mana fixer was necessary, and BOP just experience too much hate in current standard to be reliable mana fixing. Early game it mana fixes, mid game it pushes you into Titan range. Also the fact that it puts the land into your hand rather than tapped onto the field is actually alright. Trade a green mana for a land drop in a color you need.
Why not Rampant Growth or Sphere of the Suns? I tried them, but T2 really needs to be StrangleRoot, the extra mana required to cast them seemed to hurt more often than it helped.
As much as I want Gavony Township or Moorland Haunt to be in here, I dont think the mana base can support colorless lands.
Stormbound does seem to be the weakest link here, but podding from Stormbound to Metamorph, copying pod, podding Stormbound again into Dungeon Geists is just fun.
Angel of the Flight Alabaster is a pretty cool card for this deck as well, although I ultimately cut it.
Im wondering if maybe this build should just forgo the upper cmc creatures, just using pod to multiply and increase the strength of your spirit army? Maybe run some spells like Mana Leak, Ponder, etc. Has anyone tried such a build? Not necessarily with spirits but something with counters? more tempo-ish?
Anyways, any feedback would be great
I am very much with the previous poster about the ridiculousness of bird-hate. Slip, fume spitters, gutshot, galv blast, arc trail, mortarpod, I've seen it all. I reluctantly cut the Pilgrims a while back for Emissaries because they only made white, and if something is going to die anyway it's at least going to get me that freaking mana. With zombies and humans out there, the worst the Emissary does is fog + rampant growth, but very often trades. I didn't consider Vigil but I'm glad you brought it up, I want to test it now. It usually means not as much haste, but it's almost like a green cantrip. With the curve of spirits being so low it might not be so noticeable.
As a side note here's my non-spirit list:
4 Birthing Pod
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Creatures: 27
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Viridian Emissary
2 Strangleroot Geist
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Blade Splicer
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Wing Splicer
3 Acidic Slime
2 Sun Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Garruk Relentless
2 Venser, the Sojourner
Land: 23
7 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Hinterland Harbor
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Gavony Township
1 Acidic Slime
1 Archon of Justice
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Stonehorn Dignitary
1 Trinket Mage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Celestial Purge
2 Corrosive Gale
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Sword of War and Peace
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Venser, the Sojourner
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 Viridian Emissary
3 Phantasmal Image
3 Blade Splicer
1 Fiend Hunter
2 Stonehorn Dignitary
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Geist-Honored Monk
1 Acidic Slime
2 Sun Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Evolving Wilds
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Sunpetal Grove
2 Gavony Township
2 Angelic Destiny
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Daybreak Ranger
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Thrun, the last Troll
1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Mimic Vat
3 Revoke Existence
2 Autumn's Veil
Discussion spoilered for length
I've been having great results with this deck, winning Game day a few weeks ago and placing in the top of the last month's FNMs with various iterations. The deck plays more heavily into Stonehorn Dignitary than some (with two in the main deck) and more Swords to put some early pressure until we get the mana to either hardcast a 6 or 7 cmc, or the Pod chain can start working.
Some of the odder choices:
Green Sun: This doubles as an extra mana dork early game, a short circuit to the top half of the Pod chain to grab the Acidic Slime late. It also provides access to most of my sideboard post board (and an extra Green Sun there as well when I'm depending on it to get around artifact hate.)
3 Swords: This is huge early pressure. I'll change my game strategy a bit if I can play a second turn sword, third turn equip/swing with a BoP. If I'm lucky enough to have Feast and Famine, I can untap my three lands on turn 3 and drop a Pod after for a very explosive start. I've monkeyed with my Sword breakdown going between 1-2 of each. 2x Feast and Famine may be the right call.
Geist-Honored Monk: Some have criticized her for not being able to get around our biggest problems, sweepers. This is true, but my meta is quite heavy with Delver, Tokens and Tempered Steel, and her flyers provide a lot of extra time for me to get my board position where I need it. She also provides a super aggressive target for Venser to help close our games, generating two flyers each blink (and copying her with an Image is equally devastating.) I could see going down to 1 in the deck, but as it sits I'm pretty happy with her.
Fiend Hunter: I actually play this guy on my own Stonehorn Dignitary more frequently than on my opponents creatures. After I Pod out of him into either a Metamorph or a second Stonehorn I can get a two turn attack lock on my opponent that lets me play much more aggressively, especially if I have Venser out and can take advantage of his -1 two turns in a row to steal the win. Alternately, he provides much lacking removal.
The Sideboard:
This is extremely meta driven, but I'll explain the odder choices
Melira, Sylvok Outcast - I'm playing against a ton of decks running Black Sun's Zenith. I can fetch her with my Green Sun or pod an extra dork into her and force them to either kill her or lose their best board sweeper. It also gives me a couple of turns against WRR/Tempered if they've opted for a poison strategy, but I'm not sure I'd even side her in vs. Ramp/TS all the time.
Mimic Vat - This is being used more often to remove Undying creatures than offensively, and it is fantastic. If they play a Strangleroot Geist and it dies, just pull it into the Vat and it won't return. If you find a better death target later, fantastic, do the same and the Geist goes to their graveyard (it hasn't died when it leaves the Vat.) Obviously the same holds for B/u Zombies, which I've found to be a tough matchup.
3 Revoke Existence - Removes Grafdigger's Cage, which justifies the slot enough for me considering Zombies and Frites are in the Meta and the Cages are a common sideboard against them, making them easily accessible to use against us.
1 Since it's so reliant on Stonehorn Dignitary, have you considered running a copy or two of Venser for the lock?
2 You have 4 dudes that cost WW. I have found it necessary to run 2 Plains in my deck for searching purposes (over Evolving Wilds?).
3 I don't really see where you have room for it, but your list looks like it will play quite similarly to mine, and I have found quads Blade Splicer and a singleton Wing Splicer to be quite awesome. I don't know what two cards you would cut for them though.
4 I currently run 2 Seachrome Coast over a forest and Hinterland Harbour in your list (although I'm not enamoured of them). Did you consider coasts? What made you go away from them?
Again, the monk isn't really that great. I don't care about the random crap and singletons become worse the more you add. If you put value in ONE card then you're going to get lucky or wrecked. My money is on wrecked. Keep it simple.
I have been very happy with a Blade Splicer Wing Splicer Geist Honored Monk chain vs decks that want to win with creatures.
So what's the meta condition? I can see where you're coming from, I just don't know where to put her in. She's like a Lingering Souls that can provide a fat body. My problem is that that fat body wont stick. Her spirits will, hoping you've gotten some Drogskol Captains on board, and if that's the case, why not just run Midnight Haunting? Swinging with everything then using it for blockers, potentially double Rebuke. The opponent will be sitting on targeted removal if things are going as planned with this deck.
I'm just being stubborn. I don't like too many 1-2 of's and I will avoid it with any sound reasoning, meta call or generic opponent decks in mind. With that in mind, I almost want to pod into a Drogskol Reaver. No, I don't think it's a good choice in the same reasoning I won't run Elesh Norn. That 7 mana cost... I'd rather it be hard cast and not podded. Coming from 6? What do we pod for 6 that we don't mind doing it to? Wurmcoil? Which I don't want, either? Maybe? Damn! Pod decks have too many choices.
The condition is GHM is good if they have flyers.
ALL of the top Naya and Bant builds at the PT ran elesh norn, except for Elias Watsfeldt's Bant deck (that ran Feeling of Dread instead).
You are wrong to not include Elesh Norn in your deck. She is freaking nuts. She is made of win. All the creature decks just lose on the spot when you get her out, while the titan decks are crippled.
So why not keep GHM in the sideboard for when you're playing against flyers? Idk..Honestly I've never been impressed with GHM. I've tried running it in many different decks, from Birthing Pod to Tokens. And she never earns her keep. I could see packing 1 in the sideboard in case of Esper Spirit Delver, but let's be honest here..that deck is on its way out.
None of those Naya or Bant builds were built around synergy between their 2-4 drops. They were built to get to the top of the chain asap, hence Elesh Norn and Wurmcoil. Geist-pod can easily develop a very scary board position without ever going above CMC 4. I'm not saying Geist-pod is better than Naya pod, because it probably isn't. But it's just a different strategy.
This makes you sound unintelligent. Take your head out of classic pod's booty for a moment and open your eyes. Geist-pod is a different deck. It doesn't need Elesh Norn, nor does it have deck space for the amount of 6 drops (+ Norn) that would be required to suppliment such a card. Nothing above CMC 4 has any synergy with this deck (don't say GHM). Show me a Geist-pod list that includes Elesh Norn and I'll show you a deck that's trying to do too much. If you want to win via Elesh Norn, there is no reason to play Geist-pod. Just play regular pod.
I'm not saying this because I don't like your suggestions and am choosing to be stubborn. I'm saying this because I tried very hard to make Elesh Norn and Geist-Honored Monk fit into Geist-pod. There's simply no reason to run them here. It clogged up the CMC chain, forcing me to cut cards along the way, decreasing overall consistency, only to hope that nothing obstructs my path to the almighty Norn. GHM is simply outclassed by other cards in the deck, namely; Stormbound Geist, Drogskol Captain, and Dungeon Geists. I'm not saying GHM is a bad card. It's definitely needed in Bant pod and Naya pod, where opposing flyers can create problems. It's not needed in Geist-pod, since flyers are never a problem. Elesh Norn creates a very oppressive and hard-to-recover-from board position (provided they don't have a Doom Blade or something similar). The advantage of not running Norn, and instead running Geist-pod is that your draws are inevitably more consistent since your creatures have built-in synergy, and also that you will almost always have the mana to hardcast what you need to, unlike traditional pod where you can get stuck with Titans and Norn in your opening hand and thus are tempted to mulligan since you might be walking into a loss (never getting enough mana to cast the fatties).
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Sure, that's a possibility. However, in play (granted, with a Blade Splicer build, not Geist pod) I have found that GHM is better than the 2nd Acidic Slime, and definitely better than the 3rd one.
I'm not sure that building around synergy between your 2-4 drops is the most powerful and consistent thing you can do with a pod deck.
Actually, the Naya versions could beat down pretty well with the following package:
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Blade Splicer
1 Fiend Hunter
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Solemn Simulacrum
Naya has probably evolved away from pod into GR aggro.
How often do you pod from 4 to 5? Because I can see how if you are always getting a metamorph from 3-4, you won't have a 4CC card to search up 5 drops with.
Haha. Disagreeing with you makes me sound unintelligent? I guess that's true if there's no possibility of your being wrong.
Just out of interest, how has Geist-pod been doing in tournaments? I'm not trying to *get* you, I just think that pod had a breakout showing at the PT, but seems to have vanished in all of it's forms from tournament results since then. Bant and Naya are 'proven' as being good, but I think that all of the other flavours (geist, Junk, Jund, Rock, BUG) are essentially unproven decks.
Correct.
Yeah, I can see this for the Geist build. The trouble is, this is the Bant thread
Also, why run so many acidic slimes then? Why run any titans at all?
That's true. However, Elesh norn is a transcendant fatty. There's a whole nother deck built around her (Frites). She sees play in both modern and legacy. She is one of the most powerful fatties every printed.
I guess if your curve stops at 4 and you don't have a plan to chain from 5-7 then I can see how Elesh would be superfluous. It's just that I really *really* like that chaining sequence with Phantasmal Image (Image a 5 drop, pod the image away for a Sun titan, copy Sun Titan, then next turn pod the Image away for an Elesh Norn, copy Sun Titan when it attacks, basically win).