This next list is intended to be more reliable. Thacher revolt, gather the townsfolk, and your general strategy of dropping many creatures early and fast works really well with Kurin Striker, as well as battle cry effects provided by riot ringleader and Hero.
I chose Riot Ringleader over accorder paladin because of the extra one toughness, getting him away from gutshot/geistflame/tragic slip range.
Pillar of flame is doing double duty as a possible alternate way to get bloodthirst active, as well as removal for any variety of undying creatures that will otherwise completely ruin your day. They could be side boarded in favor of Shock potentially.
A big weak spot, imo, is that you have only one real play T1, which is champion.
I'm considering a 2/2 split with Hero Of Bladehold and Hellrider, or possibly going all Hellrider. Thing is, hellrider doesn't generate permanent advantage, and has only 3 toughness (still in inactive volley or incinerate range), not to mention not human, which will **** up your mana someday, even if the odds are low.
Champion of the Parish: Best possible one drop really. Pumps up fast, get's huge benefit out of Thacher Revolt and Gather the Townsfolk.
Doomed Traveler: Doesn't really fit this deck list, but usable. Personally I'd rather run shock.
Somberwald Vigilante: 1/1 for R that can trade with 2/2s, and kill x/1s before combat damage? I'm ok with this guy.
Reckless Waif: This lady is good if she flips, pretty bad if she doesn't, and you kind of have to count on your opponent flipping her in this deck. Maybe more powerful than your other secondary one drops though.
Vexing Devil: This dude is pretty good, and advances our plan of killing someone fast, but the whole not human thing is an issue, given our dependence on Cavern of Souls for a solid manabase.
Grim Lavamancer: Probably the second best one drop after champion, even though I haven't put him in a list yet. Enough of our stuff should be going in the GY to net him a couple activation's by turn five or six. Works well with stormblood, decent finisher, removes chump-blockers for champion, still a human, etc.
2cmc - Creatures
Stormblood Berserker: This dude is house, semi unblockable, comes down as a 3/3 with bloodthirst.
Kruin Striker: +1/0 and trample when other creatures enter the battlefield. Has great synergy with playing dudes, Thatcher revolt, Gather, and Hero of Bladehold. 2/1 for 1R is reasonable as well in this deck.
Accorder Paladin: 3/1 and battlecry for 2cmc? Hells yes. Unfortunately, gutshot and tragic slip are things, things which will most likely become even more ubiquitous next set.
Elite Inquisitor: Good card, possible in this deck, but double white is rough, and he doesn't really benefit the all out offense plan.
Loyal Cathar: Double white again, but his ability is a little more relevant to our aggro plan.
Lightning Mauler: Haste on my 3 drops? Maybe on Hero of Bladehold? I am OK with this. However, this dude is a little on the inconsistent and situational side. Cards like Accorder Paladin and Kurin Striker stay useful, this dude gets useless fast.
3cmc - Creatures
Mirran Crusader: This is a carzy-good format warping card that has fantastic synergy with battlecry/slayers stronghold, and curbstomps Black/Green. Gets even better if you use swords.
Riot Ringleader: 2/2 that gives humans you control, including himself, +1/0. So he's Accorder paladin, but only for humans, and with +1 toughness and +1cmc. I like this card for avoiding Tragic slip/gutshot, and providing a great bonus with any other human on the field.
Fiend Hunter: Excellent utility card, main reason not to run it is the lack of offense, and how full the 3 CMC slot is already with powerful aggro cards. Also, it can be a little bit too easy for opponents to remove, especially in decks without HotP
Silverblade Paladin: Perfectly acceptable card; double strike on two creatures is really powerful. However, this card is a less reliable threat than Crusader, as it needs another creature to function, and lacks the protections from very relevant colors.
Fervent Cathar: Decent card, haste and preventing a blocker is fine for 2R, but I'm not sure it lives up to the pure power of cards like Mirran Crusader, or the synergy of Riot Ringleader.
Kessig Malcontents: Situationally good card. If you have 3+ humans down, you can hit someone for a solid amount of damage, otherwise this card gets terrible fast. Imo Silverblade, Ringleader, and Crusader are all better options.
4cmc - Creatures
Hero of Bladehold: Reliable, synergistic, and powerful. Not the perfect card for every variant, but really good on it's own, and downright fantastic synergy with some other cards.
Hero of Oxid Ridge: Close second to Bladehold, better in some matchups, worse in others. Pretty similar card, but of course with red flavored higher Strength, lower toughness, haste, and preventing small creatures from blocking instead of creating them.
Hellrider: Another strong contender for the 4 drop slot. Isn't human, but has a good power/toughness mix, haste, and a powerful effect to get you past blockers.
Riders of Gavony: Just doesn't do as much as other 4 drop options, but is a great sideboard choice against tribal decks.
1cmc - Spells
Pillar of Flame: OK, Sorcery speed is bad, but exiling things and enabling Stormblood is good. I would argue that you will be tapped out most of the time with this deck, so you don't need an instant speed 2 damage spell anyway half the time.
Galvanic Blast: If you need 2 damage at instant speed, pick this instead! Or if you find a way to fit an asston of of artifacts into this deck.
Faithless Looting: Great way to ditch lands and (hopefully) gain creatures.
Gutshot: Potentially a great way to get a leg up on pretty much any deck with one drops. We can't usually afford to NOT tap out turns 1-4, so the life cost is crucial.
Red Sun's Zenith: Scaling removal that deals with undying and can also be a finisher!? Pretty decent card for us.
Devil's Play: Just like RSZ, but worse against undying, and better as a finisher.
Faith's Shield: Not an amazing card, but the Fateful hour bonus could really save your ass, and it's great for protecting your now uncounterable creatures.
2cmc - Spells
Arc Trail: Decks that can swarm creatures better than you getting 'ya down? Burn their faces off with Arc trail, great spell, but not always going to be useful for us.
Gather The Townsfolk: This will likely be the most used two drop spell, it works great with all the battlecry effects available, not to mention both Kurin Striker, and champion.
Incinerate: More or less the best 2cmc burn removal/damage spell.
Thunderous Wrath: (miracle cost) While I dislike this card, I could see it included as a one of, to simply at a roughly 1/3rd chance of nailing your opponent for 5 extra damage during a moderate length game.
3cmc - Spells
Thatcher Revolt: 3 hasty human 1/1's that go away at the end of turn. This card isn't very good all alone on a battlefield, although it does do a reasonable 3 damage without blockers. With champion of the Parish, Kurin Striker, Riot Ringleader, hero, or Hellrider this card becomes considerably more powerful, usually netting you a potential 6 damage for 3 mana.
Brimstone Volley: Great way to get your opponent into kill range, or to help take down a really nasty creature potentially.
Rally The Peasants: Previously a terrible card, but in this deck I can see some potential in it. +2/+0 with flashback, both for 3 mana is pretty good. At the moment I see burn being more pertinent, but it's an option.
Volt charge: This could be used instead of incinerate purely for the synergy with champion.
Here is my take on what this deck could become. It is mainly W/r Humans with a splash of green for huntmaster. I have played through some scenarios and there a some truely amazing combat tricks in this deck. Any thoughts?
Did you consider for 1cmc red:
Somberwald Vigilante
Creature - Human Warrior
Whenever Somberwald Vigilante becomes blocked by a creature, Somberwald Vigilante deals 1 damage to that creature. 1/1
He might be better than reckless waif, depending on how often you get to see waif flip.
There is also the white 1 cmc:
Cathedral Sanctifier
Creature - Human Cleric
When Cathedral Sanctifier enters the battlefield, you gain 3 life. 1/1
Just remove Thalia. Put 2 or 3 of her or Grand Abolisher in sideboard and you're fine
Thing is, the list already doesn't need Grand Abolisher really. Thalia slows down sweepers, which can be really important. Grand Abolisher will protect you from counterspells, but this deck doesn't really care about counters, or much else during your turn, anyway.
However, it's entirely possible it would be better without either of them.
@Iron Lantern I think Naya humans has some great potential, along with a lot of ways to build it. Why no Crusader though?
@Kirbymox I did consider both him and Vexing Devil, I'm not sure which is better without testing/seeing how the meta plays out though. I just like waif for putting pressure on your opponent, and being human to pump Champion.
I'm not a huge fan of the lifegain/lifelink creatures, just because they don't advance the plan of killing your opponent faster, but I think they'd be great against other aggro/burn decks.
@Hyugafan Lot's of love for Thacher Revolt, I just decided not to go with it for my starting list, as I was trying to do something that would benefit the most from both Thalia and Cavern of Souls.
I also thought of doing a more token-y version of this, with the plan being to pump Champion/Striker.
The 3 CC slot was already very tight and I wanted the deck I made to benifit the most from ETB effects, Mirran crusader doesn't have any. Also my meta is mainly delver and zombies. Mirran Crusader is good but I feel that I can befifit more from other 3 drops. The interaction between cloudshift and the variety of ETB effects can make for some brutal plays.
I definitely think Hellrider is good enough for this style of deck. If you're not comfortable with it, Hero of Oxid Ridge can be about the same thing for you. I saw one of these lists with Gisela, and 22 lands...you're going to want 25-26 lands in any build that you expect to ever have Gisela in play. I just don't think she's good enough to include here, or even over Elesh Norn (who both eliminates blockers and nearly doubles the damage you'll do). But 7cc creatures probably aren't what we should be discussing here. I see you've rounded up potential cards for each slot on the curve. I'll give you a few of my thoughts on them.. Vexing Devil, no, for the reasons you mentioned. Sometimes you're going to have in hand, Plains, Cavern, Vexing Devil, and 4 random cards. You're going to be faced with the dilemma of naming Devil with the Cavern or just not casting it. Awful either way. Grim Lavamancer can be good or bad depending on your build. I'd say he's excellent in the token build, not so much otherwise. Stormblood Berserker : FINALLY! someone who didn't just forget about this guy as soon as AVR was spoiled! If you're running more than 4 1-drops, I'd say this is an auto-include.
Out of all the other two drops, I'm most impressed with Accorder Paladin. Kruin Striker dies to the same Gut Shot and Tragic Slip that Paladin does. Paladin + Thatcher Revolt = 9 damage, Striker + Thatcher Revolt = 8 damage. It's close but I like the Paladin better. The haste and lifelink soulbond guys just don't seem good enough.
For the 3-drops, I agree with you mostly. Silverblade Paladin just isn't better than Mirran Crusader, and running both seems anti-synergystic. Mirran's protections are just too relevant. The only other 3 drop worth a mention is Fiend Hunter, whose best use is to situationally remove a creature. I play against RW humans a lot (with Wolf Run) and I have to say if they used Oblivion Ring instead of Fiend Hunter, they'd beat me a lot more often. Generally all it means is I get another Titan activation and a "surprise!!!" combat trick when Beast Within removes Fiend Hunter during the attack step.
For your 4cc creatures, I just don't think it gets any better than Hero of Bladehold. Hellrider or Oxid Ridge is really just a preference thing : side note, if you played Vexing Devils and had to name Devil with Cavern, Hellrider isn't so bad !
Good point about paladin, that makes him better in the token version AND competing for the same slot, so I put him in instead.
I'm tempted to drop main-board Pillar of Flame for 3 lavamancer, since they can pump Champion and debatably do a better job of activating Stormblood Berserker than Pillar does (since they could just swing on turn two two net you the bloodthirst).
As for hell rider, I think he's flat out better than Hero of Oxid ridge as a standalone card, but he isn't a human. So he can make your mana awkward on occasion, and he won't pump champion. However, he deals damage directly to opponents avoiding chump blockers entirely, has +1 toughness, and has effectively the same power when dealing damage to a player.
As for devil, I think he could work decently, but I think you'd need to arrange your deck to be more red heavy to include him(so you can more reliably have a red source T1 without screwing your mana base), and I'm not sure if that's worth it or not.
I don't disagree that the deck needs reach, pretty much all fast start no gas decks do, but I'm not certain more brimstone volley is 100% the way to go.
Particularly because Volley is 3cmc, and Pillar is 1. This deck already has a very full 3cmc slot, although you DO want to cast volley on later turns typically.
One thing I was considering was cutting Pillar for Grim Lavamancer; possibly to make it 2 Volley, 2 Lavamancer.
with this build i like to tap out every turn and preferably in this order
1. Champion
2. bloodthirsted berserker
3. silverblade paladin (soulbond to berserker = 13 power on the board at turn 3)
4. hero or rally the peasants for leathal damage
but i need some help with my spell package and side board, the only SB cards ive got so far is riders of gavony and divine offering
i feel like gutshot should be in the main but im not sure, also should i put angelic destiny in there? another thought would be replace brimstone with thatchers revolt
about silverblade paladin vs. mirran crusader, i say paladin ALL DAY. giving double strike to 2 creatures is nuts! example, turn 4 DoJ, turn 5 drop land and paladin with lightning mauler = 8 dmg on a clear board. example 2, attach a paladin to a beserker making him a 6 beater that has to be blocked by two creatures and you can give him the stronghold buff for a vigilant 10 beater, and the list goes on for sick plays from the paladin
about vexing devil and hellrider, to include them we would have to throw out the tribal theme which means no champion...is that ok? im not sure yet but from what i see....no its not ok
about caverns of souls is it worth it? need a pro opinion on this one...
i think after we work out the kinks this will be in the competitive forums
oh and btw....this whole deck is less than 90 bucks on tcgplayer
with this build i like to tap out every turn and preferably in this order
1. Champion
2. bloodthirsted berserker
3. silverblade paladin (soulbond to berserker = 13 power on the board at turn 3)
4. hero or rally the peasants for leathal damage
but i need some help with my spell package and side board, the only SB cards ive got so far is riders of gavony and divine offering
i feel like gutshot should be in the main but im not sure, also should i put angelic destiny in there? another thought would be replace brimstone with thatchers revolt
about silverblade paladin vs. mirran crusader, i say paladin ALL DAY. giving double strike to 2 creatures is nuts! example, turn 4 DoJ, turn 5 drop land and paladin with lightning mauler = 8 dmg on a clear board. example 2, attach a paladin to a beserker making him a 6 beater that has to be blocked by two creatures and you can give him the stronghold buff for a vigilant 10 beater, and the list goes on for sick plays from the paladin
about vexing devil and hellrider, to include them we would have to throw out the tribal theme which means no champion...is that ok? im not sure yet but from what i see....no its not ok
about caverns of souls is it worth it? need a pro opinion on this one...
i think after we work out the kinks this will be in the competitive forums
oh and btw....this whole deck is less than 90 bucks on tcgplayer
Couple thoughts working backwards:
Bit too soon to tell if this will really be competitive, I'd like to think so, but it depends on the style of opposition we face.
Imo, cavern is worth it. You don't have enough combination R/w sources without it to reliably stick your one drops, or your xRR/xWW costed spells on turns 3-4. Plus uncounterablity is slick.
I don't think Devil/hellrider would completely nix the tribal theme. At least you could still reasonably run champion of the Parish along with them. Vexing devil though, is more-so disruptive to our strategy. Hellrider is pretty easy to include if you make him say, a 2 of, and given he is a 4 drop, it should be easy-ish to get double red for him.
The problem with paladin, is that if you're holding a land, or they're holding a doom-blade, he gets a lot weaker. Mirran crusader doesn't care about such things, can destroy mono-green aggro, and helps against wolf run. Not that paladin is bad, just that he is a less reliable but more explosive card.
Yeah, I've been thinking about gutshot mainboard too, to help with T2 Stormblood, along with delver and the like. You could probably side board pillar of flame, and put gutshot in the main instead, it kind of depends on how the meta turns out though, it might be more useful to have permanent answers to Strangle root, flipped delver, zombies, etc early on in game one.
I wouldn't replace brimstone completely, but revolt does have more synergy with both hero's, champion, paladin, and rally.
Has lightning mauler proven reliably effective and worth his slot? Seems like he's pretty great if you pair him with a hero or silverblade, but accorder paladin does more damage on his own, and with revolt/gather.
about vexing devil and hellrider, to include them we would have to throw out the tribal theme which means no champion...is that ok? im not sure yet but from what i see....no its not ok
I don't see why Hellrider would force you to not run the champs. The rest of the deck is still humans.
Also as far as Silverblade Paladin vs Mirran Crusader, I think it's going to be a question of consistency. Do you trade a more consistent card that is slightly more evasive for a card with a bigger upside but also a much bigger downside?
The worst thing that ever happens with a Mirran Crusader is that it gets removed. The worst thing that can happen with a Silverblade Paladin is that someone kills it (or it's bond buddy) after you declare attack and suddenly you're coming in with one weak creature instead of two with double strike. The potential to get absolutely blown out by a simple removal/burn spell is there.
i have now included crusaders in the side, reason being is yes crusader is better vs certain decks, while paladin deals more damage quicker in general
hellrider can be included as a 2 of, just not vexing devil AND hellrider, ill try and report back.
as for lightning mauler goes, yea he has given me some sick ass plays. to me he says "target creature in your hand has haste as long as mauler is alive" think of a hasted hero, or a hasted bloodthirsted berserker, its pretty nice to have that option, also in matches ive played peolpe try to remove this guy meaning they wasted it on him instead of the card i wanted to haste.
only thing is other then hero i feel as if the deck doesnt have a "finisher"
as far as match-ups go.....to early to tell....will post back after another 100 games or so
i have now included crusaders in the side, reason being is yes crusader is better vs certain decks, while paladin deals more damage quicker in general
hellrider can be included as a 2 of, just not vexing devil AND hellrider, ill try and report back.
as for lightning mauler goes, yea he has given me some sick ass plays. to me he says "target creature in your hand has haste as long as mauler is alive" think of a hasted hero, or a hasted bloodthirsted berserker, its pretty nice to have that option, also in matches ive played peolpe try to remove this guy meaning they wasted it on him instead of the card i wanted to haste.
only thing is other then hero i feel as if the deck doesnt have a "finisher"
as far as match-ups go.....to early to tell....will post back after another 100 games or so
It doesn't really have a single card finisher, but in your version I'd think Champion could potentially be on his own, and certainly in conjunction with Paladin. Don't forget, anything with double-strike + slayers stronghold is a decent finisher (I mean come on, 8 damage and trades with almost everything?), and if you're maindecking 4 silverblade paladin that isn't super hard to manage.
Otherwise, no, it's finisher light. I suppose the backup plan is burn, but there isn't anything really suitable for us, although Volley works alright.
It's one reason I'd like to work in Grim lavamancer, he'd be nice as reach from turn 4+
Edit: Well, rally isn't bad either, but we don't have trample, so that's an issue.
Here is a list I am currently messing with, but it is an extremely early mock-up.
I don't know what you guys think, but wouldn't Kessig Malcontents be an semi-finisher late game in conjunction with Cloudshift and a huge to moderate board presence.
I am quite hesitant about Burn at the Stake, but it seems fun in conjunction especially in the face of a mirror match where in late game the board is locked down.
I think with this deck we want to be as aggressive as possible so the paladin and mirran crusader may not be the best choices, I would rather run fiend hunter who can remove blockers and kessig malcontents who can just steal games.
That being said Mirran crusader should defiantly be in the SB as a 4-of.
Off the top of my head I would run something like this.
I don't think anyone is really looking at Conscripts. It can steal Titans, Swords and Birthing Pod. Also Bonfire could work really well in a mirror match. Thoughts?
It doesn't really have a single card finisher, but in your version I'd think Champion could potentially be on his own, and certainly in conjunction with Paladin. Don't forget, anything with double-strike + slayers stronghold is a decent finisher (I mean come on, 8 damage and trades with almost everything?), and if you're maindecking 4 silverblade paladin that isn't super hard to manage.
Otherwise, no, it's finisher light. I suppose the backup plan is burn, but there isn't anything really suitable for us, although Volley works alright.
It's one reason I'd like to work in Grim lavamancer, he'd be nice as reach from turn 4+
Edit: Well, rally isn't bad either, but we don't have trample, so that's an issue.
i have now found that in conjunction with champion, berserker, or silverblade stronghold is the win card.
also i have temporarily cut rally the forces to test other 3mc spells ill see how it goes
and fiend hunter is good.....real good, but not better then silverblade....well sometimes he is....more testing!!!
Just wondering but how has bink effects effected Fiend Hunter? Have u had to cut down on him b/c hes less effective or hasn't been that big of a deal? Just wondering since I haven't been able to test.
Also I have a few thoughts, particularly when it comes to Gut Shot seems like it might see more play outside of Delver and maybe running more creatures that help your then effect theirs if ppl are running bink effects and more 1-1 removal... idk rumbling now lol
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4 Reckless Waif
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Kruin Striker
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stormblood Berserker
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Hero of Bladehold
4 Gather the Townsfolk
3 Pillar of Flame
2 Brimstone volley
Lands (24)
8 Plains
5 mountains
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Clifftop Retreat
3 Slayers' Stronghold
This next list is intended to be more reliable. Thacher revolt, gather the townsfolk, and your general strategy of dropping many creatures early and fast works really well with Kurin Striker, as well as battle cry effects provided by riot ringleader and Hero.
I chose Riot Ringleader over accorder paladin because of the extra one toughness, getting him away from gutshot/geistflame/tragic slip range.
Pillar of flame is doing double duty as a possible alternate way to get bloodthirst active, as well as removal for any variety of undying creatures that will otherwise completely ruin your day. They could be side boarded in favor of Shock potentially.
A big weak spot, imo, is that you have only one real play T1, which is champion.
I'm considering a 2/2 split with Hero Of Bladehold and Hellrider, or possibly going all Hellrider. Thing is, hellrider doesn't generate permanent advantage, and has only 3 toughness (still in inactive volley or incinerate range), not to mention not human, which will **** up your mana someday, even if the odds are low.
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Accorder Paladin
2 Riot Ringleader
4 Stormblood Berserker
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Hero of Bladehold
4 Gather the Townsfolk
4 Thatcher Revolt
2 Arc Trail
2 Brimstone volley
Lands (24)
8 Plains
5 mountains
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Clifftop Retreat
3 Slayers' Stronghold
Potential Main Board Cards.
1cmc - Creatures
Champion of the Parish: Best possible one drop really. Pumps up fast, get's huge benefit out of Thacher Revolt and Gather the Townsfolk.
Doomed Traveler: Doesn't really fit this deck list, but usable. Personally I'd rather run shock.
Somberwald Vigilante: 1/1 for R that can trade with 2/2s, and kill x/1s before combat damage? I'm ok with this guy.
Reckless Waif: This lady is good if she flips, pretty bad if she doesn't, and you kind of have to count on your opponent flipping her in this deck. Maybe more powerful than your other secondary one drops though.
Vexing Devil: This dude is pretty good, and advances our plan of killing someone fast, but the whole not human thing is an issue, given our dependence on Cavern of Souls for a solid manabase.
Grim Lavamancer: Probably the second best one drop after champion, even though I haven't put him in a list yet. Enough of our stuff should be going in the GY to net him a couple activation's by turn five or six. Works well with stormblood, decent finisher, removes chump-blockers for champion, still a human, etc.
2cmc - Creatures
Kruin Striker: +1/0 and trample when other creatures enter the battlefield. Has great synergy with playing dudes, Thatcher revolt, Gather, and Hero of Bladehold. 2/1 for 1R is reasonable as well in this deck.
Accorder Paladin: 3/1 and battlecry for 2cmc? Hells yes. Unfortunately, gutshot and tragic slip are things, things which will most likely become even more ubiquitous next set.
Elite Inquisitor: Good card, possible in this deck, but double white is rough, and he doesn't really benefit the all out offense plan.
Loyal Cathar: Double white again, but his ability is a little more relevant to our aggro plan.
Lightning Mauler: Haste on my 3 drops? Maybe on Hero of Bladehold? I am OK with this. However, this dude is a little on the inconsistent and situational side. Cards like Accorder Paladin and Kurin Striker stay useful, this dude gets useless fast.
3cmc - Creatures
Riot Ringleader: 2/2 that gives humans you control, including himself, +1/0. So he's Accorder paladin, but only for humans, and with +1 toughness and +1cmc. I like this card for avoiding Tragic slip/gutshot, and providing a great bonus with any other human on the field.
Fiend Hunter: Excellent utility card, main reason not to run it is the lack of offense, and how full the 3 CMC slot is already with powerful aggro cards. Also, it can be a little bit too easy for opponents to remove, especially in decks without HotP
Silverblade Paladin: Perfectly acceptable card; double strike on two creatures is really powerful. However, this card is a less reliable threat than Crusader, as it needs another creature to function, and lacks the protections from very relevant colors.
Fervent Cathar: Decent card, haste and preventing a blocker is fine for 2R, but I'm not sure it lives up to the pure power of cards like Mirran Crusader, or the synergy of Riot Ringleader.
Kessig Malcontents: Situationally good card. If you have 3+ humans down, you can hit someone for a solid amount of damage, otherwise this card gets terrible fast. Imo Silverblade, Ringleader, and Crusader are all better options.
4cmc - Creatures
Hero of Bladehold: Reliable, synergistic, and powerful. Not the perfect card for every variant, but really good on it's own, and downright fantastic synergy with some other cards.
Hero of Oxid Ridge: Close second to Bladehold, better in some matchups, worse in others. Pretty similar card, but of course with red flavored higher Strength, lower toughness, haste, and preventing small creatures from blocking instead of creating them.
Hellrider: Another strong contender for the 4 drop slot. Isn't human, but has a good power/toughness mix, haste, and a powerful effect to get you past blockers.
Riders of Gavony: Just doesn't do as much as other 4 drop options, but is a great sideboard choice against tribal decks.
1cmc - Spells
Pillar of Flame: OK, Sorcery speed is bad, but exiling things and enabling Stormblood is good. I would argue that you will be tapped out most of the time with this deck, so you don't need an instant speed 2 damage spell anyway half the time.
Galvanic Blast: If you need 2 damage at instant speed, pick this instead! Or if you find a way to fit an asston of of artifacts into this deck.
Faithless Looting: Great way to ditch lands and (hopefully) gain creatures.
Gutshot: Potentially a great way to get a leg up on pretty much any deck with one drops. We can't usually afford to NOT tap out turns 1-4, so the life cost is crucial.
Red Sun's Zenith: Scaling removal that deals with undying and can also be a finisher!? Pretty decent card for us.
Devil's Play: Just like RSZ, but worse against undying, and better as a finisher.
Faith's Shield: Not an amazing card, but the Fateful hour bonus could really save your ass, and it's great for protecting your now uncounterable creatures.
2cmc - Spells
Arc Trail: Decks that can swarm creatures better than you getting 'ya down? Burn their faces off with Arc trail, great spell, but not always going to be useful for us.
Gather The Townsfolk: This will likely be the most used two drop spell, it works great with all the battlecry effects available, not to mention both Kurin Striker, and champion.
Incinerate: More or less the best 2cmc burn removal/damage spell.
Thunderous Wrath: (miracle cost) While I dislike this card, I could see it included as a one of, to simply at a roughly 1/3rd chance of nailing your opponent for 5 extra damage during a moderate length game.
3cmc - Spells
Thatcher Revolt: 3 hasty human 1/1's that go away at the end of turn. This card isn't very good all alone on a battlefield, although it does do a reasonable 3 damage without blockers. With champion of the Parish, Kurin Striker, Riot Ringleader, hero, or Hellrider this card becomes considerably more powerful, usually netting you a potential 6 damage for 3 mana.
Brimstone Volley: Great way to get your opponent into kill range, or to help take down a really nasty creature potentially.
Rally The Peasants: Previously a terrible card, but in this deck I can see some potential in it. +2/+0 with flashback, both for 3 mana is pretty good. At the moment I see burn being more pertinent, but it's an option.
Volt charge: This could be used instead of incinerate purely for the synergy with champion.
WIP
11 is a bit much, though a good number of decks run her with 8-10 spells. I'll remove the swords for another gather and Kurin Striker maybe?
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Mountain
6 Plains
1 Forest
3 Sunpetal Grove
4 Razorverge Thicket
Creatures (25)
4 Elite Inquisitor
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Kessig Malcontents
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Blade Splicer
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Gut Shot
4 Cloudshift
4 Gather the Townsfolk
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Sword of War and Peace
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Revoke Existence
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Day of Judgment
15 sideboard cards
Somberwald Vigilante
Creature - Human Warrior
Whenever Somberwald Vigilante becomes blocked by a creature, Somberwald Vigilante deals 1 damage to that creature. 1/1
He might be better than reckless waif, depending on how often you get to see waif flip.
There is also the white 1 cmc:
Cathedral Sanctifier
Creature - Human Cleric
When Cathedral Sanctifier enters the battlefield, you gain 3 life. 1/1
Here's my take on it...its a lil different
4 Champion of the Parish
3 Vexing Devil
3 Nearheath Pilgrim
4 Stormblood Berserker
3 Silverblade Paladin
4 Mirran Crusader
3 Hellrider
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Spells: (13)
3 shock
3 Incinerate
3 Brimstone Volley
2 Red Sun's Zenith
1 Thunderous Wrath
1 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Slayer's Stronghold
6 Mountain
5 Plains
3 pillar of flame
3 arc trail
3 grafdigger's cage
3 manic vandal
3 TBD
I didn't like lightning mauler too much, but found there is a 2 drop that gives lifelink from soulbound and figured it should be better.
Rivenor @ Miraculous Recovery Signatures is the man!
Thing is, the list already doesn't need Grand Abolisher really. Thalia slows down sweepers, which can be really important. Grand Abolisher will protect you from counterspells, but this deck doesn't really care about counters, or much else during your turn, anyway.
However, it's entirely possible it would be better without either of them.
@Iron Lantern I think Naya humans has some great potential, along with a lot of ways to build it. Why no Crusader though?
@Kirbymox I did consider both him and Vexing Devil, I'm not sure which is better without testing/seeing how the meta plays out though. I just like waif for putting pressure on your opponent, and being human to pump Champion.
I'm not a huge fan of the lifegain/lifelink creatures, just because they don't advance the plan of killing your opponent faster, but I think they'd be great against other aggro/burn decks.
@Hyugafan Lot's of love for Thacher Revolt, I just decided not to go with it for my starting list, as I was trying to do something that would benefit the most from both Thalia and Cavern of Souls.
I also thought of doing a more token-y version of this, with the plan being to pump Champion/Striker.
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Kruin Striker
3 Riot Ringleader
4 Stormblood Berserker
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Hero of Bladehold
4 Gather the Townsfolk
4 Thacher Rebelion
3 Pillar of Flame
2 Brimstone volley
Lands (24)
7 Plains
6 mountains
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Clifftop Retreat
3 Slayers' Stronghold
Vexing Devil, no, for the reasons you mentioned. Sometimes you're going to have in hand, Plains, Cavern, Vexing Devil, and 4 random cards. You're going to be faced with the dilemma of naming Devil with the Cavern or just not casting it. Awful either way.
Grim Lavamancer can be good or bad depending on your build. I'd say he's excellent in the token build, not so much otherwise.
Stormblood Berserker : FINALLY! someone who didn't just forget about this guy as soon as AVR was spoiled! If you're running more than 4 1-drops, I'd say this is an auto-include.
Out of all the other two drops, I'm most impressed with Accorder Paladin. Kruin Striker dies to the same Gut Shot and Tragic Slip that Paladin does. Paladin + Thatcher Revolt = 9 damage, Striker + Thatcher Revolt = 8 damage. It's close but I like the Paladin better. The haste and lifelink soulbond guys just don't seem good enough.
For the 3-drops, I agree with you mostly. Silverblade Paladin just isn't better than Mirran Crusader, and running both seems anti-synergystic. Mirran's protections are just too relevant. The only other 3 drop worth a mention is Fiend Hunter, whose best use is to situationally remove a creature. I play against RW humans a lot (with Wolf Run) and I have to say if they used Oblivion Ring instead of Fiend Hunter, they'd beat me a lot more often. Generally all it means is I get another Titan activation and a "surprise!!!" combat trick when Beast Within removes Fiend Hunter during the attack step.
For your 4cc creatures, I just don't think it gets any better than Hero of Bladehold. Hellrider or Oxid Ridge is really just a preference thing : side note, if you played Vexing Devils and had to name Devil with Cavern, Hellrider isn't so bad !
Good point about paladin, that makes him better in the token version AND competing for the same slot, so I put him in instead.
I'm tempted to drop main-board Pillar of Flame for 3 lavamancer, since they can pump Champion and debatably do a better job of activating Stormblood Berserker than Pillar does (since they could just swing on turn two two net you the bloodthirst).
As for hell rider, I think he's flat out better than Hero of Oxid ridge as a standalone card, but he isn't a human. So he can make your mana awkward on occasion, and he won't pump champion. However, he deals damage directly to opponents avoiding chump blockers entirely, has +1 toughness, and has effectively the same power when dealing damage to a player.
As for devil, I think he could work decently, but I think you'd need to arrange your deck to be more red heavy to include him(so you can more reliably have a red source T1 without screwing your mana base), and I'm not sure if that's worth it or not.
Pillar is removal, the deck needs reach
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
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xRxAffinityxRx
I don't disagree that the deck needs reach, pretty much all fast start no gas decks do, but I'm not certain more brimstone volley is 100% the way to go.
Particularly because Volley is 3cmc, and Pillar is 1. This deck already has a very full 3cmc slot, although you DO want to cast volley on later turns typically.
One thing I was considering was cutting Pillar for Grim Lavamancer; possibly to make it 2 Volley, 2 Lavamancer.
He's certainly a dude, and not too shabby in the battlecry heavy variants, but I don't really see him working harder than say, Grim Lavamancer.
Maybe worth it for avoiding sweepers though.
here is what i got so far
7 Mountain
7 Plains
4 Slayers' Stronghold
4 Clifftop Retreat
24 creatures
4 Grim Lavamancer
2 Hero of Oxid Ridge
2 Hero of Bladehold
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Stormblood Berserker
4 Silverblade Paladin
4 Champion of the Parish
14 spells
3 Pillar of Flame
2 Rally the Peasants
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Brimstone Volley
4 Gather the Townsfolk
with this build i like to tap out every turn and preferably in this order
1. Champion
2. bloodthirsted berserker
3. silverblade paladin (soulbond to berserker = 13 power on the board at turn 3)
4. hero or rally the peasants for leathal damage
but i need some help with my spell package and side board, the only SB cards ive got so far is riders of gavony and divine offering
i feel like gutshot should be in the main but im not sure, also should i put angelic destiny in there? another thought would be replace brimstone with thatchers revolt
about silverblade paladin vs. mirran crusader, i say paladin ALL DAY. giving double strike to 2 creatures is nuts! example, turn 4 DoJ, turn 5 drop land and paladin with lightning mauler = 8 dmg on a clear board. example 2, attach a paladin to a beserker making him a 6 beater that has to be blocked by two creatures and you can give him the stronghold buff for a vigilant 10 beater, and the list goes on for sick plays from the paladin
about vexing devil and hellrider, to include them we would have to throw out the tribal theme which means no champion...is that ok? im not sure yet but from what i see....no its not ok
about caverns of souls is it worth it? need a pro opinion on this one...
i think after we work out the kinks this will be in the competitive forums
oh and btw....this whole deck is less than 90 bucks on tcgplayer
Couple thoughts working backwards:
Bit too soon to tell if this will really be competitive, I'd like to think so, but it depends on the style of opposition we face.
Imo, cavern is worth it. You don't have enough combination R/w sources without it to reliably stick your one drops, or your xRR/xWW costed spells on turns 3-4. Plus uncounterablity is slick.
I don't think Devil/hellrider would completely nix the tribal theme. At least you could still reasonably run champion of the Parish along with them. Vexing devil though, is more-so disruptive to our strategy. Hellrider is pretty easy to include if you make him say, a 2 of, and given he is a 4 drop, it should be easy-ish to get double red for him.
The problem with paladin, is that if you're holding a land, or they're holding a doom-blade, he gets a lot weaker. Mirran crusader doesn't care about such things, can destroy mono-green aggro, and helps against wolf run. Not that paladin is bad, just that he is a less reliable but more explosive card.
Yeah, I've been thinking about gutshot mainboard too, to help with T2 Stormblood, along with delver and the like. You could probably side board pillar of flame, and put gutshot in the main instead, it kind of depends on how the meta turns out though, it might be more useful to have permanent answers to Strangle root, flipped delver, zombies, etc early on in game one.
I wouldn't replace brimstone completely, but revolt does have more synergy with both hero's, champion, paladin, and rally.
Has lightning mauler proven reliably effective and worth his slot? Seems like he's pretty great if you pair him with a hero or silverblade, but accorder paladin does more damage on his own, and with revolt/gather.
I don't see why Hellrider would force you to not run the champs. The rest of the deck is still humans.
Also as far as Silverblade Paladin vs Mirran Crusader, I think it's going to be a question of consistency. Do you trade a more consistent card that is slightly more evasive for a card with a bigger upside but also a much bigger downside?
The worst thing that ever happens with a Mirran Crusader is that it gets removed. The worst thing that can happen with a Silverblade Paladin is that someone kills it (or it's bond buddy) after you declare attack and suddenly you're coming in with one weak creature instead of two with double strike. The potential to get absolutely blown out by a simple removal/burn spell is there.
hellrider can be included as a 2 of, just not vexing devil AND hellrider, ill try and report back.
as for lightning mauler goes, yea he has given me some sick ass plays. to me he says "target creature in your hand has haste as long as mauler is alive" think of a hasted hero, or a hasted bloodthirsted berserker, its pretty nice to have that option, also in matches ive played peolpe try to remove this guy meaning they wasted it on him instead of the card i wanted to haste.
only thing is other then hero i feel as if the deck doesnt have a "finisher"
as far as match-ups go.....to early to tell....will post back after another 100 games or so
It doesn't really have a single card finisher, but in your version I'd think Champion could potentially be on his own, and certainly in conjunction with Paladin. Don't forget, anything with double-strike + slayers stronghold is a decent finisher (I mean come on, 8 damage and trades with almost everything?), and if you're maindecking 4 silverblade paladin that isn't super hard to manage.
Otherwise, no, it's finisher light. I suppose the backup plan is burn, but there isn't anything really suitable for us, although Volley works alright.
It's one reason I'd like to work in Grim lavamancer, he'd be nice as reach from turn 4+
Edit: Well, rally isn't bad either, but we don't have trample, so that's an issue.
4 Clifftop Retreat
8 Plains
4 Mountain
2 Slayers' Stronghold
4 Champion of the Parish
3 Somberwald Vigilante
4 Stormblood Berserker
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Silverblade Paladin
2 Fiend Hunter
2 Kessig Malcontents
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Zealous Conscripts
4 Gather the Townsfolk
4 Cloudshift
2 Vigilante Justice
3 Riders of Gavony
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Celestial Purge
2 Burn at the Stake
3 Pillar of Flame
Here is a list I am currently messing with, but it is an extremely early mock-up.
I don't know what you guys think, but wouldn't Kessig Malcontents be an semi-finisher late game in conjunction with Cloudshift and a huge to moderate board presence.
I am quite hesitant about Burn at the Stake, but it seems fun in conjunction especially in the face of a mirror match where in late game the board is locked down.
That being said Mirran crusader should defiantly be in the SB as a 4-of.
Off the top of my head I would run something like this.
4 clifftop retreat
3 slayers' stronghold
4 cavern of souls
7 plains
7 mountains
4 champion of the parish
3 grim lavamancer
4 accorder paladin
4 kessig malcontents
3 fiend hunter
3 hero of oxid ridge
2 Zealous Conscripts
4 shock
4 gather the townsfolk
3 brimstone volley
3 Thatcher Revolt
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Doomed Traveler
3x Stormblood Berserker
3x Kruin Striker
2x Nearheath Pilgrim
4x Silverblade Paladin
2x Mirran Crusader (or Fiend Hunter)
3x Hero of Bladehold
2x Zealous Conscripts
3x Thatcher Revolt
3x Pillar of Flame
2x Bonfire of the Damned
4x Clifftop Retreat
3x Cavern of Souls
3x Slayer's Stronghold
7x Plain
5x Mountain
I don't think anyone is really looking at Conscripts. It can steal Titans, Swords and Birthing Pod. Also Bonfire could work really well in a mirror match. Thoughts?
i have now found that in conjunction with champion, berserker, or silverblade stronghold is the win card.
also i have temporarily cut rally the forces to test other 3mc spells ill see how it goes
and fiend hunter is good.....real good, but not better then silverblade....well sometimes he is....more testing!!!
Also I have a few thoughts, particularly when it comes to Gut Shot seems like it might see more play outside of Delver and maybe running more creatures that help your then effect theirs if ppl are running bink effects and more 1-1 removal... idk rumbling now lol