This thread is for the discussion of the Miracle mechanic. Right now not many of us have played with the Miracle cards but there are a number with potential for cube. The cards are best with library manipulation and fortunately cube does not suffer from a banned list like Legacy so we have access to powerful library manipulation like Mystical Tutor & Vampiric Tutor as well as Brainstorm, Sensei's Divining Top, Noxious Revival, Scroll Rack and a handful of others.
As these cards are only "good" if you play them for the Miracle cost they are usually bad cards to have in your opening hand. They also don't interact well with decks packing a lot of card draw and sometimes you do not want to cast them for the Miracle cost even though you can creating some awkward situations.
So let's discuss Miracles and their role in cube (if any).
I don't want to force players to draw cards in such a way that miracle as a mechanic does not feel shady. I also don't like how they are high variance cards by design. My solution is that miracle cards (like double faced cards or color shifted cards) just end up on my banned list because it is not a design I like.
Topdecks are fun and exciting because they're just ordinary cards that become extraordinary in the situation they're drawn in. Turning that phenomenon into a mechanic by making cards either terrible or broken depending on when they're drawn doesn't intrigue me at all. Some of them may be good enough, but the variance in their play (due to both drawing the card when Miracle isn't possible or forced into poor timing decisions) will keep most of them out of my cube.
All excellent points eidolon, I had meant to add the bit about casting them during opponents turns but had forgotten. If people are interested in these types of threads I can try to keep the OP updated with relevant information such as the points that eidolon mentioned and small sections about individual Miracle cards.
I see the Miracle cards as primarily build around me cards as I wouldn't want to play them without support cards that help me play them for the Miracle cost. With some proper set up they are very powerful but they may be too swingy for my cube.
From a cube perspective, I felt like they made two mistakes with miracle, beyond the obvious one of game mechanics. First, the variance between miracle cost and regular cost is too high for limited. Second, they chose really obvious effects. I really would have liked to see some effects that are not quite good enough at their cost, reprinted as miracles with upside. So, just to spitball, what if Stone Rain had a miracle cost? Or threaten effects or lifegain effects? Or anthems?
Cards like Sensei's Divining Top and Scroll Rack and Sylvan Library seem to be pretty deeply ingrained into cubes, even though I've heard a lot of people claim that they are too durdley (the Top and the Rack, specifically). Enabling Miracles seems like a fairly seamless and fun decision to me. Is the cost of hedging out generally better cards too high, though?
It's worth noting that I'm working on a 540 cube right now, so I probably have a little more leeway in terms of raw power compared to smaller cubes.
I play both Entreat and Bonfire. Terminus is another solid option, especially at 540.
Would you be willing to endorse any other miracles, or are they too hit-or-miss? Like Devastation Tide, or perhaps Reforge the Soul and Revenge of the Hunted? Not that either of those are especially well suited to a control deck trying to play Miracles.
Tide, Reforge, and Revenge just don't do enough, really. I think that if the impact of the miracle is worth both the hardcast and the end of turn Vampiric tutor, then it's worth trying out. Devastation Tide and Reforge the Soul both fail this miserably, and Revenge of the Hunted just fails to find an archetype to fit in.
I think Bonfire is pretty cool. Usually a fine card, and when you miracle it the bonfire is an extreme blow out. I don't have too much of an issue running it in a deck where I can't guarantee the miracle as much.
Entreat has been extremely hit or miss. In decks where you can consistently manipulate a miracle, it's the best card in your deck, but otherwise there are other bombs I'd rather play that are cheaper or easier to cast. It's not a bad card, but there are more loops to jump through to make it top notch.
@phantizle in cockatrice there is an undo draw option, and then you pull the top card off your deck.
If people think that Sylvan Library is too durdley, I dunno what to say.
(but Entreat and Bonfire have been pretty good here. The rest either are too embarrassing in non-miracle mode or just aren't that great overall.)
They range from decent filler cards in decks that can't abuse them, to gamechangers when combined with Mystical Tutor or Vampiric Tutor. Expect both to stick around for a long time.
This has been my experience with Terminus but I don't consider decent filler cards with a minor upside that you usually have to work for isn't a sign of something that is going to stick around for a long time.
I use Terminus, Bonfire, and Entreat currently. All have been awesome when Miracled, and non-embarrassing when hard cast. And miracle is surprisingly easier than originally thought in UW control with some tools, and always makes for a good story when raw-dogged.
This thread is for the discussion of the Miracle mechanic. Right now not many of us have played with the Miracle cards but there are a number with potential for cube. The cards are best with library manipulation and fortunately cube does not suffer from a banned list like Legacy so we have access to powerful library manipulation like Mystical Tutor & Vampiric Tutor as well as Brainstorm, Sensei's Divining Top, Noxious Revival, Scroll Rack and a handful of others.
As these cards are only "good" if you play them for the Miracle cost they are usually bad cards to have in your opening hand. They also don't interact well with decks packing a lot of card draw and sometimes you do not want to cast them for the Miracle cost even though you can creating some awkward situations.
So let's discuss Miracles and their role in cube (if any).
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I see the Miracle cards as primarily build around me cards as I wouldn't want to play them without support cards that help me play them for the Miracle cost. With some proper set up they are very powerful but they may be too swingy for my cube.
Wtwlf seems to have trimmed it down to just Bonfire of the Damned.
Cards like Sensei's Divining Top and Scroll Rack and Sylvan Library seem to be pretty deeply ingrained into cubes, even though I've heard a lot of people claim that they are too durdley (the Top and the Rack, specifically). Enabling Miracles seems like a fairly seamless and fun decision to me. Is the cost of hedging out generally better cards too high, though?
It's worth noting that I'm working on a 540 cube right now, so I probably have a little more leeway in terms of raw power compared to smaller cubes.
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Would you be willing to endorse any other miracles, or are they too hit-or-miss? Like Devastation Tide, or perhaps Reforge the Soul and Revenge of the Hunted? Not that either of those are especially well suited to a control deck trying to play Miracles.
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Entreat has been extremely hit or miss. In decks where you can consistently manipulate a miracle, it's the best card in your deck, but otherwise there are other bombs I'd rather play that are cheaper or easier to cast. It's not a bad card, but there are more loops to jump through to make it top notch.
@phantizle in cockatrice there is an undo draw option, and then you pull the top card off your deck.
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(but Entreat and Bonfire have been pretty good here. The rest either are too embarrassing in non-miracle mode or just aren't that great overall.)
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This has been my experience with Terminus but I don't consider decent filler cards with a minor upside that you usually have to work for isn't a sign of something that is going to stick around for a long time.
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