MTG Salvation

I love my Azami Deck. It's probably my favorite but the idea of building winless EDH decks, like everything, is a theme that needs to be explored.
So, the next and only other general incapable of being a win condition is Skeleton Ship.

Took out some good stuff for other good stuff.

Wow! that ship will never see shore...

Vampiric Tutor? Demonic Tutor? Force of Will? Pact of Negation? Damnation? Merchant Scroll? Commandeer? Desertion? Transmute Artifact? Phyrexian Arena? Goodstuff?

What would I tutor for? I have a couple but usually just drawing cards is enough.

With Mono-blue I never wished I had board wipes since in my meta it's rare to have a lot of creatures out.

Commandeer, Desertion = Easy ways to win. So, no dice.

Arena would be good and I might add Venser's Journal back in to offset the life loss. Before I would have said yes without any questions but I am actually the first to draw hate a lot now... understandably.

All the deck needs is a constant flow of cards and the ability to interact with the board. Most people analyze the card choice to make it better, but better can hurt.

(I will say that it sucks when your General dies to Sunder)


((And this new set has a couple cards I am really excited about!))

So I've noticed that in both this deck and Azami you run Scrabbling Claws and Phyrexian Furnace in addition to what I'd already normally consider a pretty healthy retinue of Graveyard hate (here you have five total-graveyard removers + Grafdigger's). Is this a metagame choice, or is it really that good to be able to consistently ping off another card or two from a graveyard per turn + cantrip? Do you think they're only good in an extremely long-term minded deck like yours, or decent in general?

I'm not really offering any criticism here, you've just piqued my curiosity with a couple obscure card choices.

Spellbook just in case you don't draw reliquary early enough for all that card draw?
or to a lesser extent - Library of Leng

there's also Venser's Journal

Quote from Cornwallace

So I've noticed that in both this deck and Azami you run Scrabbling Claws and Phyrexian Furnace in addition to what I'd already normally consider a pretty healthy retinue of Graveyard hate (here you have five total-graveyard removers + Grafdigger's). Is this a metagame choice, or is it really that good to be able to consistently ping off another card or two from a graveyard per turn + cantrip? Do you think they're only good in an extremely long-term minded deck like yours, or decent in general?

I'm not really offering any criticism here, you've just piqued my curiosity with a couple obscure card choices.

So, I realize you are not asking me but, in my opinion very few people run enough graveyard hate. Unless you are running a dedicated combo deck and can go off by turn 4, I would pack in the graveyard hate. At least in my meta, if you can't get rid of troubling cards in the 'yard, you WILL be seeing them again.

In my meta Sun Titan is king, Animate Dead wins, Salvaging Station is one of the most common wind conditions... yeah, we done screwed up EDH but I want to make sure if I see graveyard issues I can handle them but if not, cantrip away.

I have a Grixis "stupid stuff for the lolz" deck that has a bit of a curse package. I got to see Curse of Oblivion in action and actually did better than I expected.

Quote from runningbear

Vampiric Tutor? Demonic Tutor? Force of Will? Pact of Negation? Damnation? Merchant Scroll? Commandeer? Desertion? Transmute Artifact? Phyrexian Arena? Goodstuff?

Runningbear, first of all, you seem to be stalking me.

What would be tutor for honestly? This deck is a reactive deck and rather play the Draw-Go strategy.

The only effective tutor would be Mystical Teachings, but it's way too expensive to flashback in our meta.

It's mono-blue that splashes black for some cards, it's still pretty much Azami (The Three Hour Tour).

so... you just don't even try to win?

all of my wat


well maybe you could at least include blue sun's zenith. It's strong enough and fits into your heavy control gameplan, and it can usually only kill people when the game has already ground along for like 2+ hours.

Quote from metalevolence

all of my wat


well maybe you could at least include blue sun's zenith. It's strong enough and fits into your heavy control gameplan, and it can usually only kill people when the game has already ground along for like 2+ hours.

Cards like that were the hardest to cut from Azami because they are great late game draw spells but they are also theoretical win conditions so they had to go.

And Bacon is slightly off... I don't want people to deck or scoop. I just don't want the game to go too fast. It does happen though that I beat people with Azami, but it's really a more friendly Group Hug type deck. Group Hug wanted to control game state by letting everybody play their decks, but the problem is that they are doing it wrong - by GIVING resources - because denying access to game breakers does a much better job.

Quote from Galspanic

Cards like that were the hardest to cut from Azami because they are great late game draw spells but they are also theoretical win conditions so they had to go.

And Bacon is slightly off... I don't want people to deck or scoop. I just don't want the game to go too fast. It does happen though that I beat people with Azami, but it's really a more friendly Group Hug type deck. Group Hug wanted to control game state by letting everybody play their decks, but the problem is that they are doing it wrong - by GIVING resources - because denying access to game breakers does a much better job.

Well Dan, I was off, but he was asking if the deck was intended to not win in general? I answer, yes with how most people lost playing against Azami, but yes, your not going for that way to win, but it happens more times than not.

You've only killed me with general 1 game and the rest were from decking from Time Spirals' and Tormod's Crypt.

Azami was mixture of mono-blue control/stax/group hug.

I believe most people are extra confused when they look at this list because it can't win, but it's in the two best colours of magic.

I actually think the confusion comes from the matrix by which good cards are judged. It's like they apply Doberman Pinscher breed standards to my Pekingese

Normal people say that Necropotence and Ad Nauseum are good cards because they draw a lot. But if your goal was to kill yourself as fast as possible there are ALSO all-stars. It's that the goal of my decks is stupid.

Devestation Tide, Diminishing Returns, had to go back in. I took out D.R. because that Exile 10 clause hurt too much, but with Leyline of the Void and Nihil Spellbomb I think that risk is smaller.

Vile Consumption is interesting because it could be seen as a win condition, but really unless you are trying to kill yourself it won't kill you.

Mystic Remora is just good card draw and cheap so if I am land light I should be able to get out of that early if it's on the table early.

Cowardice... It's close to being a good card in most decks, but never made the cut. But here it's amazing. My general targets stuff so it works with him. Your stuff uses equipment so it counters all that... and what? Are you really going to target my general to bounce him? Nice move.

Arcane Melee? Sure, whatever. 33 Instants and Sorceries - 29 which get the discount. It's probably like a 5 mana Worn Powerstone that doesn't alway work, but whatever.

I am looking forward to playing against.... none of these cards! Aside from the slight value from Arcane Melee. Vile Consumption is pretty funny for anyone who also has a Bitterblossom out.

You will love Cowardice everytime you strap an equipment on something.... actually it makes Stonehewer Giant all that much better.

I still want to make room for Chill, Damnation[/card (since I lose nothing from Damnation), Breath of Dreams, and Pendrell Mists.

Quote from Galspanic

You will love Cowardice everytime you strap an equipment on something.... actually it makes Stonehewer Giant all that much better.

I still want to make room for Chill, Damnation[/card (since I lose nothing from Damnation), Breath of Dreams, and Pendrell Mists.

Actually if I'm playing my Kaalia deck, Cowardice would be kind of cool. I can use Lightning Greaves instead of Erratic Portal to reset my Angel of Despair or Rune-Scarred Demon.

I was thinking about how your decks basically make a rat's maze out of a game: you invite us, the rats, for the purpose of getting the cheese, which is the lure of actually making our decks work, and you keep changing the labyrinth every time. You're a cruel sonofagun, but it's cool, I like cheese.

I'm wondering about an Esper version of your deck. It's not really necessary as with your card draw you generally have the answers you want in your hand, but adding white would give you enchantment tutor/recursion that would let you be more precise in when you drop your evil enchantments. Hanna, Ship's Navigator would certainly break your win con rule, but would be pretty sweet with all the enchantments/artifacts you run. And if you were going to break the win con rule I could see Ertai, the Corrupted at the helm. Him or Sen Triplets, but you don't want anyone flipping the table in your house, which might result in a Sen Triplets deck.

I think I've found your win condition.
Exasperating Control Deck Endurance+Leyline of the Void(and friends)+Time Spiral(and friends)

Unfortunately for synergy purposes ECDE has no friends.

Cowardice is WAY WAY more powerful than I thought. All night it caused chaos and screwed up plans... nice.

I am actually really surprised I have never seen it played before.

Quote from Galspanic

Cowardice is WAY WAY more powerful than I thought. All night it caused chaos and screwed up plans... nice.

I am actually really surprised I have never seen it played before.

That it did Dan. I was surprised at the results as well. You honestly should have countered Repay in Kind, the game would have gone at least 20 minutes longer.
After seeing how effective Vile Consumption was, I made space for it in Zur the Enchanter Stax.
I have to say, the best idea you had was making Ghost Ship your commander since you opened you up to so many more options for creature control which you never had before.

Quote from Jivanmukta

Wouldn't Breathstealer's Crypt also be good along with Pendrall Mists?

Edit: didn't see Galspanic already mentioned mists.

Breathstealer's Crypt is touchy. In our games, it will act as a Telepathy if anything, but it's best with Wheel of Fortune effects.