I think this guy deserves some discussion now were allowed too. He plays nice with thalia and gets some gas, as well as a nice body aside. And for bolt prices, He can bait removal/counters like a pro, and can feed the goyf.
My testing has him at 3 of, and hes been good each and every time.
Count on him being a bigger Lava Spike every time early and a bigger Wild Nacatl every time late. Not that either is a bad thing, lol; I'm just saying don't count on him for board presence when you want board presence or damage when you want damage.
Count on him being a bigger Lava Spike every time early and a bigger Wild Nacatl every time late. Not that either is a bad thing, lol; I'm just saying don't count on him for board presence when you want board presence or damage when you want damage.
Good thing Zoo likes both strategies at pretty much any point in the game.
Thalia has already resurrected Zoo in the Dailies. Devil might be enough to push it back into t1 territory. Time will tell.
in my experience with zoo, i think devil is better of loam lion and kird ape.
the reason is simple: even in the most favorable case ( drop on turn 1) i make with lion ad ape 4 damages; 6 damages with them is rare.
so if i play devil on turn 1 and then i have to sacrifice it for 4 damages, i don't feel damaged.
in the late game, when opponent can't spend 4 life to make me sacrifice it, it's pure math: 4 is bigger than 2
Yep. So my testing has been panning out. I can happily say the only time I hate him is top decking for a creature after a wipe or something.
But pretty much everytime people say he will be bad with "situations" I more or less think "Well kird and loam lion are worse then that in those situations too.
I have to say, he shines on turn 3. turn 1 something stable (kird or loam or lynx) turn 2 thaila or a 2 drop if you have it, or removal of some sort, turn 3 is really nice, specifically if you have a goyf in hand and vex, as he can feed goyf out of burn range.
After some testing yesterday, I have decided to keep Vexing Devil in the deck as a 3-of. I may actually increase that to 4.
Observations:
I was never disappointed when my opponents took 4 dmg (no surprise). There were actually a number of times when the following thought crossed my mind: "Dear lord. This thing is powerful. I must have four now." Nearly brought a tear to my eye... metaphorically speaking..
When he does stick, he's horrifying. Tip to help him stick: drop 2 goblin guides t1 and t2, and follow it up with a devil during your second main phase t2. This makes people really scared and panicky. No one wants to be at 10 t2 against a deck running burn with 2-3 creatures on the board.
Ranger of Eos is a must-have in this build. I am going to be increasing the count to 2, and when I do I will likely increase my Devil count to 4. Pulling 2 Devils with him was a gg in the two games where it happened.
Gotta have 4 goyfs. Just do. Devil makes your goyfs 3/4 on turn 2-3.
Devil is a skill-tester. There is no question about it. Less a skill-tester for you, and more for your opponent. Most people do not yet know how to handle him, especially in multiples. Cut some apes and lions for him, and you won't look back.
in my experience with zoo, i think devil is better of loam lion and kird ape.
the reason is simple: even in the most favorable case ( drop on turn 1) i make with lion ad ape 4 damages; 6 damages with them is rare.
so if i play devil on turn 1 and then i have to sacrifice it for 4 damages, i don't feel damaged.
No, no, no! Wrong!
If you manage to do 4 damage with loam lion, after those 4 damage, your opponent must have used something to get rid of the lion, while when they take 4 with the devil they don't lose any cards in the process.
If my opponent plays Devil turn 1 with zoo, I gladly take 4 damage and let them wait another turn to drop a creature. As Nyzzeh said, Loam Lion and Ape force an opponent to find a blocker or use a removal spell to deal with it.
Instead of looking at Devil as a "best of both worlds" look at it this way.
It's a lava spike that can be countered by a removal spell, blocker, wrath, or god forbid, a normal counterspell (albeit so can anything).
Tribal Flames is good in zoo because it doesn't give your opponent an option as to what you're playing it on, AND it can play a role as removal if needed. Zoo as a deck wants to beat in with cheap creatures and burn off any blockers until an opponent is dead. Vexing devil really doesn't fit that gameplan.
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Find me online - I'm on Cockatrice * Tag - Badd B - Or on MTGO - Tag - Cbus05
If my opponent plays Devil turn 1 with zoo, I gladly take 4 damage and let them wait another turn to drop a creature. As Nyzzeh said, Loam Lion and Ape force an opponent to find a blocker or use a removal spell to deal with it.
Instead of looking at Devil as a "best of both worlds" look at it this way.
It's a lava spike that can be countered by a removal spell, blocker, wrath, or god forbid, a normal counterspell (albeit so can anything).
Tribal Flames is good in zoo because it doesn't give your opponent an option as to what you're playing it on, AND it can play a role as removal if needed. Zoo as a deck wants to beat in with cheap creatures and burn off any blockers until an opponent is dead. Vexing devil really doesn't fit that gameplan.
Doesn't seem like that gameplan is possible much anymore with the 3/3 for G being banned and all. Looks like Thalia made a showing and people are trying new things like Vexing Devil and liking it. Why not just let them be and let the wins and numbers speak for themselves.
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Legacy Decks
~~~~~~~~~
Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
~~~~~~~~~
Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
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My testing has him at 3 of, and hes been good each and every time.
Good thing Zoo likes both strategies at pretty much any point in the game.
Thalia has already resurrected Zoo in the Dailies. Devil might be enough to push it back into t1 territory. Time will tell.
Here is the list I'll be testing tonight:
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Vexing Devil
2 Kird Ape
4 Steppe Lynx
2 Loam Lion
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Ranger of Eos
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Arid Mesa
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Mountain
CG
Yep. So my testing has been panning out. I can happily say the only time I hate him is top decking for a creature after a wipe or something.
But pretty much everytime people say he will be bad with "situations" I more or less think "Well kird and loam lion are worse then that in those situations too.
I have to say, he shines on turn 3. turn 1 something stable (kird or loam or lynx) turn 2 thaila or a 2 drop if you have it, or removal of some sort, turn 3 is really nice, specifically if you have a goyf in hand and vex, as he can feed goyf out of burn range.
Observations:
I was never disappointed when my opponents took 4 dmg (no surprise). There were actually a number of times when the following thought crossed my mind: "Dear lord. This thing is powerful. I must have four now." Nearly brought a tear to my eye... metaphorically speaking..
When he does stick, he's horrifying. Tip to help him stick: drop 2 goblin guides t1 and t2, and follow it up with a devil during your second main phase t2. This makes people really scared and panicky. No one wants to be at 10 t2 against a deck running burn with 2-3 creatures on the board.
Ranger of Eos is a must-have in this build. I am going to be increasing the count to 2, and when I do I will likely increase my Devil count to 4. Pulling 2 Devils with him was a gg in the two games where it happened.
Gotta have 4 goyfs. Just do. Devil makes your goyfs 3/4 on turn 2-3.
Devil is a skill-tester. There is no question about it. Less a skill-tester for you, and more for your opponent. Most people do not yet know how to handle him, especially in multiples. Cut some apes and lions for him, and you won't look back.
CG
No, no, no! Wrong!
If you manage to do 4 damage with loam lion, after those 4 damage, your opponent must have used something to get rid of the lion, while when they take 4 with the devil they don't lose any cards in the process.
I called him a madman. He called me an ambulance.
Instead of looking at Devil as a "best of both worlds" look at it this way.
It's a lava spike that can be countered by a removal spell, blocker, wrath, or god forbid, a normal counterspell (albeit so can anything).
Tribal Flames is good in zoo because it doesn't give your opponent an option as to what you're playing it on, AND it can play a role as removal if needed. Zoo as a deck wants to beat in with cheap creatures and burn off any blockers until an opponent is dead. Vexing devil really doesn't fit that gameplan.
Doesn't seem like that gameplan is possible much anymore with the 3/3 for G being banned and all. Looks like Thalia made a showing and people are trying new things like Vexing Devil and liking it. Why not just let them be and let the wins and numbers speak for themselves.
~~~~~~~~~
Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
~~~~~~~~~
Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg: