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Welcome to the wonderful world of flicker and threaten. Standard is rife with powerful ETB cards right now, and with a little bit of early ramp into the midgame this combo can dominate a game SO fast. Restoration angel and cloudshift can turn a combat completely around in your favour, and stealing/attacking with a primieval titan, only to shift it at the EOT is just brutal. After playing with this deck for a while I can honestly say it's the most powerful out of all the post AVR decks I have tested.
Most of the combos are pretty self evident, but one of the more surprising MVPs so far has been Infernal Plunge. If you don't have a cloudshift to keep their creature, this is the next best thing. The additional mana is rarely used but it can be a nice bonus.
Criticism is very welcome. Thanks!
Edit: this decklist has evolved quite a bit. Check out the following pages!
Looks good but....slow. so you're not doing anything on the first two turns? Also, you don't have anything that could reset the board. Something like Slagstorm/Whip/DOJ/Term might be useful.
Looks good but....slow. so you're not doing anything on the first two turns? Also, you don't have anything that could reset the board. Something like Slagstorm/Whip/DOJ/Term might be useful.
Well You are right, it has trouble vs. aggro in game 1. Blade splicer is a great blocker and you can ramp a bit with Sphere, but in game 2 peace strider and bonfire help alot. I should free up some room for a sweep... it's just that your creatures are very vauable for flicker ETB.
EDIT: Just came to mind after I wrote my comment: With Ghostly Flicker, you can also steal artifacts and lands with Zealous Conscripts. Mana intensive, but could be useful.
Wow! great idea, looks like tons of fun to play.
The first thing that came to my mind was the fact that you play around opponents creatures a lot that against control decks you might be at a disadvantage, I realize that you have other finishers though. I also agree with the others that a timely reinforcements, whipflare, or slagstorm seems useful.
Also, since the sphere of suns seems mostly for ramp and not color fixing, a pristine talisman seems better because it helps out against aggro. I didn't look at your mana curve close enough to see if it fits well though.
The suggestions for Timely Reinforcements and Slagstorm are perfect. Also Pekpekk, I would love to add blue but I feel that it would wreak havoc on the manabase and Ghostly Flicker has a LOT of competition in the 3CMC slot...
Act of Aggression will likely make the SB as it deals with Geist and can remove two aggro creatures as early as T3. The reason I only included 3 Conscripts was that this deck loves to play more than 1 spell a turn. 5CMC should be near the top of the curve (second to the titan) and conscripts is the highest costed card that combos with flicker. Having more than 1 in hand can prove awkward.
What are some other helpful blue options to go with Ghostly Flicker? I don't play much blue, but it seems helpful here... (especially for CA!)
Since the deck has problems with aggro, have you considered Stonehorn Dignitary? He can delay an attack turn and provide you with a nice blocker for further delays. Obviously Timely Reinforcements help as well, but you really need a long term solution for Token based decks, or else they just keep coming... Consider Conjurer's Closet as a possibility too.
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I agree With Whipflare over slagstorm, but im not entirely sold on dignitary over peace strider in the sideboard... One thing that is important to understand about this deck is that it likes to attack more than it likes to stall. It's not a true "control" deck in the traditional sense. It likes to win in the late mid-game JUST after your opponent has played their first wurmcoil or something.
Though the mindcontrol combo is fun, it certainly isn't essential and more often than not you will be winning with either flickered in golems/angel beatings or a single titan attack.
Also to everyone supporting Traitorous Blood over Act of Treason, i'd say it really is a personal preference. I like having less color commitment, as sometimes it's important to have a clifftop retreat open for cloudshift and cavern can mess things up a bit.
I don't feel like Geist has any synergy with this deck and Snappy is a bit too mana intensive here (and i like having the cage in the SB)... I DO like nephalia smuggler however, if only because he costs 1 mana. But then again the blue splash may be too weak to warrant any hope for a T1 play. Honestly Venser and Ghostly flicker are the two cards that i really want out of blue... and Venser may just not be aggressive enough.
Could just be scared of the price tag on snapcaster though. He might be great.
I don't feel like Geist has any synergy with this deck
maybe after sideboard, leaving their removal blank and smacking in for 4 damage by attacking and cloudshifting? or maybe not =/, i dont know...
I understand that the conscripts can steal permanently, but how? Is it by blinking in your turn so somehow there is like "nothing to return because its another card". If it were like that, the smuggler might be too mana intensive, you´d have to blink it twice right?
I know i´ll be playing a form of blink deck with AVR, because its my favourite deck ever. I surely hope we get somewhere with this! keep it up guys!
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A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
I think it's worth noting that 4 mana and two cards to steal a creature at sorcery speed is only decent value rather than amazing value.
I think Chandra the Firebrand has possibilities.
It's amazing in THIS meta
- 7 mana Frites reanimate? Yoink.
- 6-7 mana Pod topper? Yoink.
- Huntmaster? Yoink and ETB wolf/life
- Metamorph? Yoink and copy.
- Hero of Bladehold? Yoink and attack for massive damage.
- Titan? Yoink, attack AND blink for ETB effect.
If it's sorcery speed your worrying about, you can certainly opt for Act of Aggression. Chandra may be a better option than Venser though, seeings as he blinks the creature until the end of your turn.
And to PaBitO the combo works like this:
1. Steal opponents creature (you now control this creature)
2. Blink creature (creature loses identity and is returned under your control)
3. Creature is brand new, as though it just resolved from casting. All the counters/EOT effects and things are washed off.
I understand that the conscripts can steal permanently, but how? Is it by blinking in your turn so somehow there is like "nothing to return because its another card". If it were like that, the smuggler might be too mana intensive, you´d have to blink it twice right?
It works like this:
1) Cast Conscript
2) Gain control of creature until end of turn
3) Cloudshift the stolen creature.
4) Cards do not retain "memory" of their state from before they left the board. Therefore when Cloudshift blinks the creature and it returns from exile under your control, that creature, because it is now considered a new instance, "forgot" it was supposed to go back to it's owner at end of turn.
5) You now permanently control the creature.
And to PaBitO the combo works like this:
1. Steal opponents creature (you now control this creature)
2. Blink creature (creature loses identity and is returned under your control)
3. Creature is brand new, as though it just resolved from casting. All the counters/EOT effects and things are washed off.
Roger that. Im thinking it will piss off alot of people if i ever get to do this
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A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
Am I to believe that an Angel of Serenity (a 7 drop mediocre reanimation target) is going to have the SAME value as a Hallowed Fountain? 15 bucks each? Sorry, not going to happen. Not now, not ever.
6 bucks for a Sphinx's Revelation? The value will tank by at least 50% as most of the spells of it's nature (post-Stroke).
In 3 months, say January 1st, it will be interesting to see how much you overpaid.
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. After experimenting with blue, i don't feel like it justifies messing with the manabase. Snapcaster is good but Ghostly Flicker and venser both aren't. Flicker rarely combos with anything due to the high cost and Venser doesn't create a true flicker effect (returns at the EOT). At the 5-6 mana range you want to play something very aggressive with this deck and venser just does not create enough of a board presence.
At the moment, with all the changes, this is what I have been running (and it works great!)
So my friend played this at a Sunday standard tourny(16ppl), and spit top 2. He lost rd 1 to delver, beat rd 2 zombies, rd 3 rw humans(i think). And played delver again in top 8, and beat him second time around. He says he playtested against RW humans some more though, and was getting crushed alot, so maybe more timelys? not sure.
[edit] I see that I am late! Anyway, great deck. It seems really powerful and frustrating, but potentially weak when you don't have all your components. You're also going to have people constantly calling judges on you, which is fine.
You're also going to have people constantly calling judges on you, which is fine.
This is very true, especially at FNM.
Something i discovered that is very important to recognize here is the threaten effects give haste as well. If your opponent is tapped out and you play a creature that can seal the deal better than whatever they have on the board (tokens usually), give your own guy haste and alpha for the win. This is especially true for titans. Flickering your titan THEN giving it haste can clear away a ton of chump blockers and catch people off guard.
Just something to remember, as tokens are obviously one of our weaker matchups.
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Welcome to the wonderful world of flicker and threaten. Standard is rife with powerful ETB cards right now, and with a little bit of early ramp into the midgame this combo can dominate a game SO fast. Restoration angel and cloudshift can turn a combat completely around in your favour, and stealing/attacking with a primieval titan, only to shift it at the EOT is just brutal. After playing with this deck for a while I can honestly say it's the most powerful out of all the post AVR decks I have tested.
Without further ado:
2 Mimic Vat
4 Sphere of the Suns
Creatures 19
4 Blade Splicer
4 Inferno Titan
4 Restoration Angel
4 Solemn Simulacrum
3 Zealous Conscripts
4 Cloudshift
4 Act of Treason
2 Infernal Plunge
Lands 25
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Clifftop Retreat
10 Mountain
8 Plains
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Tibalt the Fiend Blooded
4 Manic Vandal
3 Peace Strider
3 Bonfire of the Damned
Most of the combos are pretty self evident, but one of the more surprising MVPs so far has been Infernal Plunge. If you don't have a cloudshift to keep their creature, this is the next best thing. The additional mana is rarely used but it can be a nice bonus.
Criticism is very welcome. Thanks!
Edit: this decklist has evolved quite a bit. Check out the following pages!
Please don't image leech. Warning issued.
-Sene
Well You are right, it has trouble vs. aggro in game 1. Blade splicer is a great blocker and you can ramp a bit with Sphere, but in game 2 peace strider and bonfire help alot. I should free up some room for a sweep... it's just that your creatures are very vauable for flicker ETB.
Also, why not the full four copies of Zealous Conscripts?
EDIT: Just came to mind after I wrote my comment: With Ghostly Flicker, you can also steal artifacts and lands with Zealous Conscripts. Mana intensive, but could be useful.
EDIT 2: I also find it hilarious that, if you opt for Act of Aggression, you can steal an animated Gideon Jura.
Yo dawg, I heard you like MTG so we put a game into your game so you can play MTG while you play MTG
The first thing that came to my mind was the fact that you play around opponents creatures a lot that against control decks you might be at a disadvantage, I realize that you have other finishers though. I also agree with the others that a timely reinforcements, whipflare, or slagstorm seems useful.
Also, since the sphere of suns seems mostly for ramp and not color fixing, a pristine talisman seems better because it helps out against aggro. I didn't look at your mana curve close enough to see if it fits well though.
Standard
:symg::symb: Golgari Blitz :symg::symb: (WIP)
EDH/commander
Momir vig, simic visionary - Green/blue control
Dakkon blackblade -Esper control
Act of Aggression will likely make the SB as it deals with Geist and can remove two aggro creatures as early as T3. The reason I only included 3 Conscripts was that this deck loves to play more than 1 spell a turn. 5CMC should be near the top of the curve (second to the titan) and conscripts is the highest costed card that combos with flicker. Having more than 1 in hand can prove awkward.
What are some other helpful blue options to go with Ghostly Flicker? I don't play much blue, but it seems helpful here... (especially for CA!)
Fires :symr:f Salvation
Though the mindcontrol combo is fun, it certainly isn't essential and more often than not you will be winning with either flickered in golems/angel beatings or a single titan attack.
Also to everyone supporting Traitorous Blood over Act of Treason, i'd say it really is a personal preference. I like having less color commitment, as sometimes it's important to have a clifftop retreat open for cloudshift and cavern can mess things up a bit.
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
I don't feel like Geist has any synergy with this deck and Snappy is a bit too mana intensive here (and i like having the cage in the SB)... I DO like nephalia smuggler however, if only because he costs 1 mana. But then again the blue splash may be too weak to warrant any hope for a T1 play. Honestly Venser and Ghostly flicker are the two cards that i really want out of blue... and Venser may just not be aggressive enough.
Could just be scared of the price tag on snapcaster though. He might be great.
I understand that the conscripts can steal permanently, but how? Is it by blinking in your turn so somehow there is like "nothing to return because its another card". If it were like that, the smuggler might be too mana intensive, you´d have to blink it twice right?
I know i´ll be playing a form of blink deck with AVR, because its my favourite deck ever. I surely hope we get somewhere with this! keep it up guys!
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
I think Chandra the Firebrand has possibilities.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Temporarily retired from the game
Thanks a bunch to Rivenor from Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the awesome sigpic!
Rage quit reason of the moment:
It's amazing in THIS meta
- 7 mana Frites reanimate? Yoink.
- 6-7 mana Pod topper? Yoink.
- Huntmaster? Yoink and ETB wolf/life
- Metamorph? Yoink and copy.
- Hero of Bladehold? Yoink and attack for massive damage.
- Titan? Yoink, attack AND blink for ETB effect.
If it's sorcery speed your worrying about, you can certainly opt for Act of Aggression. Chandra may be a better option than Venser though, seeings as he blinks the creature until the end of your turn.
And to PaBitO the combo works like this:
1. Steal opponents creature (you now control this creature)
2. Blink creature (creature loses identity and is returned under your control)
3. Creature is brand new, as though it just resolved from casting. All the counters/EOT effects and things are washed off.
It works like this:
1) Cast Conscript
2) Gain control of creature until end of turn
3) Cloudshift the stolen creature.
4) Cards do not retain "memory" of their state from before they left the board. Therefore when Cloudshift blinks the creature and it returns from exile under your control, that creature, because it is now considered a new instance, "forgot" it was supposed to go back to it's owner at end of turn.
5) You now permanently control the creature.
Roger that. Im thinking it will piss off alot of people if i ever get to do this
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
Nice deck btw
At the moment, with all the changes, this is what I have been running (and it works great!)
3 Sphere of the Suns
Creatures 19
4 Blade Splicer
4 Inferno Titan
4 Restoration Angel
4 Solemn Simulacrum
3 Zealous Conscripts
4 Cloudshift
4 Act of Treason
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Whipflare
Planeswalker 1
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Cathedral Sanctififier
3 Manic Vandal
3 Act of Aggression
1 Timely reinforcement
3 Ratchet Bomb
[edit] I see that I am late! Anyway, great deck. It seems really powerful and frustrating, but potentially weak when you don't have all your components. You're also going to have people constantly calling judges on you, which is fine.
This is very true, especially at FNM.
Something i discovered that is very important to recognize here is the threaten effects give haste as well. If your opponent is tapped out and you play a creature that can seal the deal better than whatever they have on the board (tokens usually), give your own guy haste and alpha for the win. This is especially true for titans. Flickering your titan THEN giving it haste can clear away a ton of chump blockers and catch people off guard.
Just something to remember, as tokens are obviously one of our weaker matchups.