I have been testing this deck for a long while now but I think Temporal Mastery is exactly what I wanted to make this deck shine.
What is 12 Post?
12 Post is a deck that is built around 12 specific lands. 4 Cloudpost, 4 Glimmerpost, and 4 Vesuva. All 4 of these lands have the Locus land type and can combine to generate an insane amount of mana without using any other cards. The goal is to play enough lands to hard cast Emrakul (nothing in Legacy beats hard cast Emrakul)
Why should I play 12 Post?
This deck is very resilient against counter magic and practically blanks creature removal. The win condition is hard cast Emrakul so you can smash aggro decks no matter how behind you are.
What kind of cards and colors are in 12 post?
This is up to you since the core of the deck is colorless so there is really no restrictions. However I personally went towards Blue/Green.
The main goal of this deck is achieving fast mana and dropping a fatty. It is similar to a combo deck except the combo is essentially a bunch of lands so nothing really interacts with the deck except Wastelands.
Ideally you are going to be dropping a cloudpost every turn and a candelabra. Then play Emrakul on turn 4. Unlike traditional Show and Tell decks, you do not have to worry about Emrakul not getting there. It always gets there.
How do you deal with disruption?
The only real disruption is wasteland and maybe Vindicate. The ideal cards to deal with these things are Stifle and Crop Rotation or simply not care. Getting wastelanded once isn't that bad. Getting hit by wasteland twice is very rough. You might have to resort to plan B if you got wastelanded twice.
Plan B. Cast yourself a Primeval Titan. Primeval Titan can get you back all your Cloudposts and Eye of Ugin to search up an Emrakul to seal the deal. He ends the game extremely fast and acts as a blocker for that one turn until you win with him. If they plow it, then you gain 6 life and 2 lands of your choice (the damage has already been done).
How are the matchups?
There are three types of decks. Wasteland decks, Non Wasteland decks, and Combo decks.
Combo decks are the most scary. Force of Will rarely beats combo so all your hope rests on the sideboard. You can still beat Reanimator or Sneak and Show with the Karakas since you can Crop Rotation for it.
About 8 slots of my sideboard is dedicated against combo. Cards like Spell Pierce and Chalice of the Void is used. With Force of Will and possibly a turn 4 win on our end, I have beaten Storm and High Tide in tournament a few times.
Next comes wasteland decks. The wasteland decks that have a fast clock such as RUG delver are the scariest. RUG in particular also has Stifle which can wreck your fetches and Expedition Maps as well. Resolving a Show and Tell is auto win though. Daze and Spell Snares are blanks.
Obviously RUG is the worse one but decks like Maverick which doesn't have a fast clock and doesn't interact with your deck at all except wastelands are easy to deal with. You have crop rotations and Stifle so it is very unlikely to get wastelanded multiple times. Not to mention Show and Tell resolves for sure.
Then there are non wasteland decks like Esper Stoneblade. These decks are absolute free rolls. I don't see how you can possibly lose. Glimmerpost gains you so much life that even the fast aggro decks like Zoo can't do anything. I won't even consider Burn a bad matchup and they have Price of Progress.
I am still testing this card and I say it is completely bonkers. Temporal Mastery has been an over hyped card since playing a Brainstorm so you can set up a Mastery on turn 2 just to play a land and say go is not very strong. However in this deck playing Explore is extremely strong. I have been avoiding explore since it is a Spell Snare target and decreases my blue card count. However Temporal Mastery does so much more. It is a blue card and does explore but more importantly it untaps your "come into play tapped" lands. You are so far ahead after playing Temporal Mastery.
This deck is breaking Temporal Mastery better than anything else I have seen. Might push this deck into the tiers.
Final Comments
This deck is probably not seeing the play it deserves because it requires Candelabras. You can get wastelanded and still have Emrakul mana with Candelabra. You can double your color sources with Candelabra.
Right now the deck list is very very open. I have not tried anything outside of Blue/Green right now. I just feel that the cards synergizes very good. I have played this deck in a many local tournaments and beat everyone.
Everytime I beat someone I feel like I absolutely crushed them. Every time I lost the game, I didn't feel like I lost to the hate but rather if I just drew a little better. All the things you need to win the game are there.
Have you tried the version Rock Lee posted on the source? It has less blue in the maindeck. From my limited testing, the deck doesn't really have all that much colored mana; one if its strongest points is that its able to run without much colored mana. Adding brainstorm/ponder and removing sensei's divining top undermines that in my opinion.
Apart from that, the main decked force of wills don't seem useful. With 17 blue cards, the chances you have force, another blue, and them not having a protection spell are fairly slim. I feel like it would just generally lower the deck's ability to go off.
Stifles are an interesting addition, but it comes back to having to have colored mana.
Another question is whether or not you've tested Devastation Tide . The bounce could potentially slow opponents enough to hit the mana you need versus faster decks.
You are correct about colored sources. It is sometimes a problem but not really. Rarely i simply draw all my post lands and have no color. I always have at least 1 colored land and the deck is not very color heavy. I only feel Primeval Titan is really being held back by color sources.
Sensei's Top is indeed good but its no brainstorm replacement. It doesnt interact with my hand nor does it pitch to Force of Will.
17 blue cards is fine. I dont plan to Force everything. This deck doesnt need many cards. Playing a land per turn then dropping a Candelabra and Emrakul is a typical play. You win holding like 5 cards in hand unlike other combo decks. You ignore most plays but sometimes you really need to Force that 1 thing to give youself that extra turn. Be that a price of progress, first turn delver or turn 2 Knight of the Reliqaury. You need to be able to respond. Often I can protect Show and Tell with it. Spell pierce, spell snare, and daze are pretty bad against this deck. So your stuff is highly likely to resolve if you have it. I never feel like i need cards to pitch. Force also doesnt require colored mana.
RockLee has had tremendous success with his build on TheSource. I've played it on Cockatrice more than 100 games, initially just for kicks... but it should be an Established Deck. Its really powerful against non-storm combo. Aggro and Control get steam rolled. Maindeck Pithing Needles and post-board Trinispheres really help against Belcher. Same can be said of Crop Rotation into Tabernacle. So you basically lose hard to TES and ANT. Even Dredge is a good matchup provided you can keep them off lands with Wasteland, Crop Rotation into Tabernacle you should be good for a few turns. The pre-board is meh but post-board you get gravehate to back up Tabernacle, Chasm, and Glimmerposts to put you out of kill range.
One other possible addition would be a single maze of ith. You can copy it with vesuva and untap it with candelabra. It's a fairly decent stall against aggro-control decks with a single beater. At the worst it gets wasteland'ed, but then your cloudpost didnt.
Something to consider in a deck like this are the Blue card-draw spells that are traditionally just *bit* too slow for legacy, but still really strong.
By those, I mean Gifts Ungiven & Fact or Fiction. I wouldn't hesitate to play the Gifts Ungiven + Unburial Rites combo in here too. This gives resilience against a lot of hate, as well as the ability to tutor up answers when you need them.
That being said, it would be more of a controlling UW version instead of a turbo UG list.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find me online - I'm on Cockatrice * Tag - Badd B - Or on MTGO - Tag - Cbus05
I've been play testing this deck quite a bit with my playgroup and I have to say that temporal mastery was very underwhelming.There were multiple times where I had the chance to miracle it, but it just didn't really matter or I wish it was something actually useful. There was maybe 1 game out of 20 games where it wouldve won me the game. I've been trying Fact or fiction in its place and have been sort of liking it. But I definitely need to test it some more. I originally tested with 4 show and tells, but didnt like how inconsistent it was. I would often just have 1-2 show and tells w/ no fatties to put into play; after going down to 3 and upping the candle by 1, I've found that the extra candle really helps and that the extra show and tell wasn't missed too much.
I've been having trouble versus sneak/show and combo in general. I'll just call high tide a lost cause as that deck is ridiculously consistent; but what are some good sb strategies versus combo? Should I be using pithing needles and hate pieces in there somewhere?
Perhaps elephant grass deserves some consideration.
This thread is a bit old but I was just wondering about something. I am trying to get into Legacy and after a lot of research I found 12 post and Aluren to be the two decks I would have the most fun with that seem to be good. The thread is a bit old so I am just wondering, is 12 post still viable? Thanks.
Okay thanks for the input! The legacy scene here is quite large here but I still see your point. One of the stores near me hosts monthly legacy tournaments and the prize is always a duel land, tropical island, underground sea etc.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
What is 12 Post?
12 Post is a deck that is built around 12 specific lands. 4 Cloudpost, 4 Glimmerpost, and 4 Vesuva. All 4 of these lands have the Locus land type and can combine to generate an insane amount of mana without using any other cards. The goal is to play enough lands to hard cast Emrakul (nothing in Legacy beats hard cast Emrakul)
Why should I play 12 Post?
This deck is very resilient against counter magic and practically blanks creature removal. The win condition is hard cast Emrakul so you can smash aggro decks no matter how behind you are.
What kind of cards and colors are in 12 post?
This is up to you since the core of the deck is colorless so there is really no restrictions. However I personally went towards Blue/Green.
Here is a deck list.
4x Primeval Titan
1x Kozilek Butcher of Truth
1x Wurmcoil Engine
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
3x Stifle
3x Crop Rotation
1x All is Dust
2x Ponder
3x Expedition Map
3x Candelabra of Tawnos
1x Oblivion Stone
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
1x Forest
1x Island
4x Cloudpost
4x Vesuva
4x Glimmerpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Karakas
The main goal of this deck is achieving fast mana and dropping a fatty. It is similar to a combo deck except the combo is essentially a bunch of lands so nothing really interacts with the deck except Wastelands.
Ideally you are going to be dropping a cloudpost every turn and a candelabra. Then play Emrakul on turn 4. Unlike traditional Show and Tell decks, you do not have to worry about Emrakul not getting there. It always gets there.
How do you deal with disruption?
The only real disruption is wasteland and maybe Vindicate. The ideal cards to deal with these things are Stifle and Crop Rotation or simply not care. Getting wastelanded once isn't that bad. Getting hit by wasteland twice is very rough. You might have to resort to plan B if you got wastelanded twice.
Plan B. Cast yourself a Primeval Titan. Primeval Titan can get you back all your Cloudposts and Eye of Ugin to search up an Emrakul to seal the deal. He ends the game extremely fast and acts as a blocker for that one turn until you win with him. If they plow it, then you gain 6 life and 2 lands of your choice (the damage has already been done).
How are the matchups?
There are three types of decks. Wasteland decks, Non Wasteland decks, and Combo decks.
Combo decks are the most scary. Force of Will rarely beats combo so all your hope rests on the sideboard. You can still beat Reanimator or Sneak and Show with the Karakas since you can Crop Rotation for it.
About 8 slots of my sideboard is dedicated against combo. Cards like Spell Pierce and Chalice of the Void is used. With Force of Will and possibly a turn 4 win on our end, I have beaten Storm and High Tide in tournament a few times.
Next comes wasteland decks. The wasteland decks that have a fast clock such as RUG delver are the scariest. RUG in particular also has Stifle which can wreck your fetches and Expedition Maps as well. Resolving a Show and Tell is auto win though. Daze and Spell Snares are blanks.
Obviously RUG is the worse one but decks like Maverick which doesn't have a fast clock and doesn't interact with your deck at all except wastelands are easy to deal with. You have crop rotations and Stifle so it is very unlikely to get wastelanded multiple times. Not to mention Show and Tell resolves for sure.
Then there are non wasteland decks like Esper Stoneblade. These decks are absolute free rolls. I don't see how you can possibly lose. Glimmerpost gains you so much life that even the fast aggro decks like Zoo can't do anything. I won't even consider Burn a bad matchup and they have Price of Progress.
Cards to Consider
Temporal Mastery
I am still testing this card and I say it is completely bonkers. Temporal Mastery has been an over hyped card since playing a Brainstorm so you can set up a Mastery on turn 2 just to play a land and say go is not very strong. However in this deck playing Explore is extremely strong. I have been avoiding explore since it is a Spell Snare target and decreases my blue card count. However Temporal Mastery does so much more. It is a blue card and does explore but more importantly it untaps your "come into play tapped" lands. You are so far ahead after playing Temporal Mastery.
This deck is breaking Temporal Mastery better than anything else I have seen. Might push this deck into the tiers.
Final Comments
This deck is probably not seeing the play it deserves because it requires Candelabras. You can get wastelanded and still have Emrakul mana with Candelabra. You can double your color sources with Candelabra.
Right now the deck list is very very open. I have not tried anything outside of Blue/Green right now. I just feel that the cards synergizes very good. I have played this deck in a many local tournaments and beat everyone.
Everytime I beat someone I feel like I absolutely crushed them. Every time I lost the game, I didn't feel like I lost to the hate but rather if I just drew a little better. All the things you need to win the game are there.
Apart from that, the main decked force of wills don't seem useful. With 17 blue cards, the chances you have force, another blue, and them not having a protection spell are fairly slim. I feel like it would just generally lower the deck's ability to go off.
Stifles are an interesting addition, but it comes back to having to have colored mana.
Another question is whether or not you've tested Devastation Tide . The bounce could potentially slow opponents enough to hit the mana you need versus faster decks.
Sensei's Top is indeed good but its no brainstorm replacement. It doesnt interact with my hand nor does it pitch to Force of Will.
17 blue cards is fine. I dont plan to Force everything. This deck doesnt need many cards. Playing a land per turn then dropping a Candelabra and Emrakul is a typical play. You win holding like 5 cards in hand unlike other combo decks. You ignore most plays but sometimes you really need to Force that 1 thing to give youself that extra turn. Be that a price of progress, first turn delver or turn 2 Knight of the Reliqaury. You need to be able to respond. Often I can protect Show and Tell with it. Spell pierce, spell snare, and daze are pretty bad against this deck. So your stuff is highly likely to resolve if you have it. I never feel like i need cards to pitch. Force also doesnt require colored mana.
You can find a lot of good info in this thread that I would honestly just be repeating.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20012-Deck-Turbo-Eldrazi
U Solidarity U
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
By those, I mean Gifts Ungiven & Fact or Fiction. I wouldn't hesitate to play the Gifts Ungiven + Unburial Rites combo in here too. This gives resilience against a lot of hate, as well as the ability to tutor up answers when you need them.
That being said, it would be more of a controlling UW version instead of a turbo UG list.
My current MB is:
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
4x Vesuva
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Maze of Ith
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Primeval Titan
3x Show and Tell
3x Candelabra of Tawnos
4x Crop Rotation
4x Expedition Map
4x Devastation Tide
4x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Fact or Fiction
4x Force of Will
4x Spell Pierce
2x Flusterstorm
3x Surgical
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Karakas
I've been having trouble versus sneak/show and combo in general. I'll just call high tide a lost cause as that deck is ridiculously consistent; but what are some good sb strategies versus combo? Should I be using pithing needles and hate pieces in there somewhere?
Perhaps elephant grass deserves some consideration.