"But Marge, that little guy hasn't done anything yet. Look at him! He's gonna do something and you know its gonna be good."
- Homer Simpson
An important skill in EDH is the ability to go unnoticed. It's often the case that the player who first makes the most visible effort is the first to lose the game, handing victory to the player who was just as dangerous but not as obvious. This deck aims to always be in the hands of that player. Keep the board clean, but don't put it under oppressive control. Put up defences, but don't construct a flashy pillowfort. Prolong the game until you're in the right position to win it.
Notable Cards/Combos
Opalescence and Parallax Wave: The win condition. Opalescence allows Parallax Wave to be able to target itself, so it can be flickered repeatedly for unlimited fade counters. This can then be used to either exile all enemy creatures/enchantments (by flickering Parallax Wave before the creature is exiled), or to infinitely flicker a friendly creature. There aren't that many targets in the deck, but when one of them is your general you don't really need many more.
Exquisite Blood and Sanguine Bond: Backup wincon. Also two enchantments, also can be tripped by casting Ghost Dad, and there's a nice asthetic in having the two ways to win be a pair of White enchantments or a pair of Black enchantments. These two can be set up with Insidious Dreams and brought back with Replenish
The creatures: ...Are gone! I've wanted to have a creatureless deck for ages, and I finally got around to doing it. Losing Dimir House Guard hurts, but hopefully Brainspoil (into Increasing Ambition) can fill his shoes. Creatures don't have much of a place in a deck full of Wraths led by ghosts, anyway.
Pillory of the Sleepless: Pacifism effects aren't especially powerful in EDH, but they are quite useful against big aggressive generals (Rafiq, Mimeoplasm, etc.) because unlike proper removal, it forces your opponent to expend resources either destroying the aura or their general before they can attack again. I chose Pillory of the Sleepless because it was BW.
Skeletal Scrying: This has always been very good to me in this deck, because there's always plenty of cards in my graveyard that I'm not going to miss if I never see them again during the game. A "benefit" of not running too many recursion engines.
Stony Silence: Possibly the most brutally oppressive hate card in EDH that isn't named Torpor Orb. All mana rocks turn off, all equipment goes inert, and that's just the beginning. Because of the impression of advantage it creates, I've dropped Sol Ring, leaving my only artifacts as Armillary Sphere and Orzhov Cluestone (which can always be sacrificed prior to casting Stony Silence); Serra's Sanctum should more than fill in for the One Ring.
Planar Collapse: This is an excellent follow-up to a cheap sweeper - can you get the job done with just one creature? do you trust everyone else to not cast more than the limit and blow everything up?
Insidious Dreams: If you are making a deck that relies on a two-card combo, you want this card in your deck. Insidious Dreams lets you pivot from playing defensively to pursuing the combo in a single card - during an opponent's end step, no less.
Oust: Oust buys a lot of time against decks aiming for general damage, and it has the fun side effect of shutting off an opponent's tutors for a turn.
Increasing Ambition: A tutor almost as good as Insidious Dreams. Increasing Ambition finds you the mana you need to flash it back, which in turn grabs the combo pieces. A bit obvious (nothing says "kill me!" more than tutoring three times in rapid succession), but very effective.
Martial Law: I'm giving this a try over Prison Term, which I found had an annoying habit of falling off during sweepers. Martial Law isn't a completely lockdown of the creature - it can use its abilities in response to being targetted - but it does stop the most dangerous creature being involved in combat, and that should be solid.
2012-05-31: -Archon of Justice, Creepy Doll, False Prophet, +Aurafication, Exquisite Blood, Sanguine Bond
2012-08-08: -Plains, Angel of Despair, Phyrexian Rebirth, Sign in Blood, +Bokuka Bog, Terminus, Murder, Rend Flesh
2012-11-08: -Academy Rector, Aven Mindcensor, Dimir House Guard, Eternal Dragon, Netherborn Phalanx, Rune-Scarred Demon, Sun Titan, Enslave, +Martial Law, Underworld Connections, Brainspoil, Night's Whisper, Promise of Power, Sign in Blood, Shred Memory, Unmake
2012-11-23: -Plains, Sol Ring, +Maze of Ith, Serra's Sanctum
2012-04-20: -Orzhov Basilica, Life's Finale, +Orzhov Guildgate, Merciless Eviction
2013-05-30: -Underworld Connections, Shred Memory, +Orzhov Cluestone, Rest in Peace
The thought process behind this deck is very profound, and your build is quite the silent killer. Good job. Great job!!!
Three things:
Do you run into mana problems? You only play 42 sources I saw, a fair amount of card advantage, and your curve doesnt look too heavy, but i could see how you could get manascrewed semiregularly.
How often does GCO see play? Or is he simply an unthreatening face? I run a hatred in my mix, and when nobody sees it coming it makes for some bloody scenes, even when used on a general that's attacking another opponent. "4? Okay, I'll take it." Tapped out, wiped out.
How backbreaking is insidious dreams? It seems prime for ditching reanimation targets and fetching for reanimators and cards to setup the board state in one fell swoop, but does it always function as well as it sounds being massive card disadvantage?
It's nice to see innovative GCO decks floating around, this list is truly impressive.
The deck rarely bricks on mana because of all the draw/tutors, and even if I skip a land drop once in a while, I can still interact with the board because of all the cheap removal. Using a tutor early to get Armillary Sphere or Eternal Dragon can go a pretty long way.
Ghost Council is there to be the final piece of the combo - I never play him otherwise. So he ends up being a vital but unseen part of the deck, which fits the theme. He'd also end the game with that new combo, Sanguine Bond/Exquisite Blood.
Insidious Dreams is awesome. The card disadvantage is made up a thousand-fold by the increase in card quality, since you typically discard cards that will not win you the game there and then for cards that will. Usual line of play is to leave mana open with spot removal in hand, then if nothing needs to be killed, EoT Insidious Dreams for Opalescence/Parallax Wave, and draw them both with Arena/Necro/Ambition's Cost/whatever.
Really nice looking list indeed. I think I'm gonna test Insidious Dreams myself too, as I'm sometimes looking ways to discard cards from my hand and ID is instant, compared to Demonic Collusion for example.
I'd probably add Bojuka Bog in your list. Nice gravehate, which can be bounced with Orzhov Basilica or played after Life's Finale if want to get rid of some pesky creatures permanently. TerrorI would probably switch to Rend Flesh.
That is dasdardly. My list is heavy graveyard reliant, so skeletal scrying has gotten me usually three cards the most, and what ive seen ive needed lately is a versatile discard outlet for when i have necro and journal going at it, insidious dreams
fits perfectly. I'm probably gonna post my deck in blackjack's primer thread if you cared to check the tech in it Good conversation, good construction.
Really nice looking list indeed. I think I'm gonna test Insidious Dreams myself too, as I'm sometimes looking ways to discard cards from my hand and ID is instant, compared to Demonic Collusion for example.
I'd probably add Bojuka Bog in your list. Nice gravehate, which can be bounced with Orzhov Basilica or played after Life's Finale if want to get rid of some pesky creatures permanently. TerrorI would probably switch to Rend Flesh.
I ran Collusion with Phyrexian Etchings in a mono-Black deck, and it was insane when it got online but godawful expensive to get running. It's a good engine, but I think the difference beween Collusion and Dreams is like Sheoldred and Reanimate.
I probably ran out of Bogs to put in this list, since I have a lot of Black decks. I could take one out of Wort or something, like goblins care what everyone else is doing with their graveyard. Rend Flesh is a good suggestion; always forget that card exists. I'll probably put that in the slot Sign in Blood is taking up, since I really like the new Terror art.
Thanks! I really like Insidious Dreams - it's a card that lets you shift gears with a deck with incredible surprise factor. It's a beast here, but I'd love to see how it works out in something really hardcore like Sharuum.
Played a few games with this deck, really really fun! Setting off the combo is great, although a lot of clicking when kids make you click through because they're mad. Really love it. Flickered Ghost and Angel now in games with opal/parallax combo.
This deck really does sit in the back and then come out of nowhere. Although I did have one game with a beseech, demonic tutor, parallax wave, and phalanx in the opener. I threw down the wave on turn 4 with a lot of people "great card, really neat" after I had retrieved my opal. next turn opal went down and the expletives flew.
I've been playing this deck exclusively since the other day and have only lost 2 or 3 games out of about 15, mostly to bad draws but one deck did out and out wreck me in a 4player.
I've been looking for ways to improve it. I didn't run vampiric because I didn't want to spend 40 on the card and replaced it with a maze of ith. I did swap out terror for rend flesh and that was an amazing trade due to the amount of artifacts some people run. I put in a scrubland as well. I'm not sure where else this deck could use tuning. I feel like some of the cards tend to be weaker, Oubliette seems like it could stay or go, perhaps for something with more power. It's great removal, it just feels weak at times.
Do you play against a lot of combo decks? I'm starting to think about mainboarding sadistic sacrament in my black decks. Everyone in my meta have unrefined decks but all of them include infinites, I have the most refined deck so I'm always targeted, I'm thinking of using it to stop them from getting those little combos they love so I can keep playing. I also am slowly removing infinites from my deck or else I wouldn't care, just to keep games from being boring.
I probably play the most combo in my meta, actually - most of the decks tend towards goodstuff and I find that kinda boring. SadSac is horrible to really dedicated combo decks (like this), and I like digging through people's decks to see what's coming anyway. I just never seem to find room very often for those kinds of effects for some reason.
i just completed my first commander deck a few days ago, and just happened to decide to use the council myself. i'm already running the bond/blood combo and also abuse the out-of-nowhere win from ad nauseam with bond and tainted sigil in play. i will most certainly be adding your primary win-con, as well as several of you tutors. really, really nice work.
I bought 1000 Liliana of the Veils, 5834 Thragtusks, and literally an infinite amount of everything else that was cheap then became expensive. My power level is over 9000!
I like Sign in Blood on top of a pile of Insidious Dreams targets as a cheap way to draw the two cards I want. Of course you have Necrologia which works just fine.
I like Sign in Blood on top of a pile of Insidious Dreams targets as a cheap way to draw the two cards I want. Of course you have Necrologia which works just fine.
Must have missed this; it happens if I fall out of the habit of checking the sub-forums with all the decks in it for a little while. Sorry about that.
I did try Prison Term and I didn't like how it worked with all the sweepers (both mine and the inevitable Wrath that comes from other decks). Faith's Fetters is a card I really like but it always seems to end up getting cut out because of curve reasons. I was considering trying to push this deck to being completely creatureless, and if I do that then there's definitely a place for Fetters. Likewise, Sign in Blood and its older brother Night's Whisper have been in older versions of the deck and have been whittled away to make more room for other things, but they'd go back in a creatureless version. Over Necropotence, I think, as cheap draw is less obtrusive than the brute force of the Skull, and playing Necro and Insidious Dreams together is a bit awkward. The new Phyrexian Arena that goes on a land seems neat - that's obviously excellent with Dreams/Vampiric Tutor.
Can't think of why I resisted getting a Serra's Sanctum, though - I think it just must have been a thing that slipped my mind. I'll need to add that to the shopping list.
This deck looks really fun. I just got a copy of Ghost Dad and might try to use your list as a basis. How does it play normally? Like, combo or control or aggro? I guess with the premise just being to sit quietly kind of more like a slow combo? Do you just try to search out your pieces swiftly then go off all in one turn or what? I love the enchantment over creatures theme. It seems quite nifty. Anyways, thanks for the list if nothing else! It looks super fun.
It's a very slow-burning deck. My goal most games is to play cards out fairly slowly - with all the sweepers and defensive enchantments, there's no rush - and aim to fire off Insidious Dreams when I can untap and drop two combo pieces. Depending on how long the game goes, you can put yourself in a position to put all three pieces together in a single turn (two enchantments and Ghost Dad), or the two enchantments buffered by Replenish. The idea is to look like you're doing nothing (don't underestimate Black's ability to conceal what it tutors for!), maybe even helping the board by being the guy who kills all the scary creature the G/x ramp doofus is putting out, until suddenly you actually do do something to end the game. Nobody should trust the ghost mafia.
I've been playing a fun creature heavy Animar deck with my weekly gaming crew for quite a while and they were all getting ready to mock me for not having a new deck now that my friend who never builds new decks built two. Also after running a couple of tournaments with Animar and seeing how uncompetitive that deck is, it's great to have a lethal deck that is the opposite colors and theme. I played the deck cold with some proxies and nearly won the tournament for a beta dual land which could have paid to fill in a lot of those proxies except people got too scared of my combo right before the last piece hit the table and ignored the blue control deck a few turns too many. Looking forward to bringing the noise and the funk next time.
One thing though, in your editing of the list, did you miss count? I see 101 cards with the general. And then if I'm right would you drop a land?
Thanks for a really fun list that hopefully gets a boost when the next Orzhova set comes out.
Seems I was up a Swamp. There should be 40 land (39 + Maze of Ith). Now I have to check the actual deck, to see if I don't have something weirdly miscounted there, too. Keeping a 100-card decklist correct is a pain in the ass.
Anyway, glad to hear other people are having success with this kind of build! It seems like it would compliment Animar almost perfectly. I'm hoping there's some neat stuff in Gatecrash - don't really care so much about the new legend, since Ghost Dad is fairly integrated into the current list, but the Orzhov Guildgate it an automatic inclusion, and I can always hope for a W/B equivalent of Abrupt Decay modelled after Unmake/StP/Mortify...
Notable Cards/Combos
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
Three things:
Do you run into mana problems? You only play 42 sources I saw, a fair amount of card advantage, and your curve doesnt look too heavy, but i could see how you could get manascrewed semiregularly.
How often does GCO see play? Or is he simply an unthreatening face? I run a hatred in my mix, and when nobody sees it coming it makes for some bloody scenes, even when used on a general that's attacking another opponent. "4? Okay, I'll take it." Tapped out, wiped out.
How backbreaking is insidious dreams? It seems prime for ditching reanimation targets and fetching for reanimators and cards to setup the board state in one fell swoop, but does it always function as well as it sounds being massive card disadvantage?
It's nice to see innovative GCO decks floating around, this list is truly impressive.
The deck rarely bricks on mana because of all the draw/tutors, and even if I skip a land drop once in a while, I can still interact with the board because of all the cheap removal. Using a tutor early to get Armillary Sphere or Eternal Dragon can go a pretty long way.
Ghost Council is there to be the final piece of the combo - I never play him otherwise. So he ends up being a vital but unseen part of the deck, which fits the theme. He'd also end the game with that new combo, Sanguine Bond/Exquisite Blood.
Insidious Dreams is awesome. The card disadvantage is made up a thousand-fold by the increase in card quality, since you typically discard cards that will not win you the game there and then for cards that will. Usual line of play is to leave mana open with spot removal in hand, then if nothing needs to be killed, EoT Insidious Dreams for Opalescence/Parallax Wave, and draw them both with Arena/Necro/Ambition's Cost/whatever.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
I'd probably add Bojuka Bog in your list. Nice gravehate, which can be bounced with Orzhov Basilica or played after Life's Finale if want to get rid of some pesky creatures permanently. TerrorI would probably switch to Rend Flesh.
fits perfectly. I'm probably gonna post my deck in blackjack's primer thread if you cared to check the tech in it
I ran Collusion with Phyrexian Etchings in a mono-Black deck, and it was insane when it got online but godawful expensive to get running. It's a good engine, but I think the difference beween Collusion and Dreams is like Sheoldred and Reanimate.
I probably ran out of Bogs to put in this list, since I have a lot of Black decks. I could take one out of Wort or something, like goblins care what everyone else is doing with their graveyard. Rend Flesh is a good suggestion; always forget that card exists. I'll probably put that in the slot Sign in Blood is taking up, since I really like the new Terror art.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
On an unrelated note, how did you format the OP? It's like it's in columns or something . . .
This deck really does sit in the back and then come out of nowhere. Although I did have one game with a beseech, demonic tutor, parallax wave, and phalanx in the opener. I threw down the wave on turn 4 with a lot of people "great card, really neat" after I had retrieved my opal. next turn opal went down and the expletives flew.
I've been looking for ways to improve it. I didn't run vampiric because I didn't want to spend 40 on the card and replaced it with a maze of ith. I did swap out terror for rend flesh and that was an amazing trade due to the amount of artifacts some people run. I put in a scrubland as well. I'm not sure where else this deck could use tuning. I feel like some of the cards tend to be weaker, Oubliette seems like it could stay or go, perhaps for something with more power. It's great removal, it just feels weak at times.
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
In terms of pacifism effects, I'm assuming you considered Prison Term and Faith's Fetters and decided no, but I'm not sure why.
Serra's Sanctum too $$, or too big a target?
I like Sign in Blood on top of a pile of Insidious Dreams targets as a cheap way to draw the two cards I want. Of course you have Necrologia which works just fine.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Must have missed this; it happens if I fall out of the habit of checking the sub-forums with all the decks in it for a little while. Sorry about that.
I did try Prison Term and I didn't like how it worked with all the sweepers (both mine and the inevitable Wrath that comes from other decks). Faith's Fetters is a card I really like but it always seems to end up getting cut out because of curve reasons. I was considering trying to push this deck to being completely creatureless, and if I do that then there's definitely a place for Fetters. Likewise, Sign in Blood and its older brother Night's Whisper have been in older versions of the deck and have been whittled away to make more room for other things, but they'd go back in a creatureless version. Over Necropotence, I think, as cheap draw is less obtrusive than the brute force of the Skull, and playing Necro and Insidious Dreams together is a bit awkward. The new Phyrexian Arena that goes on a land seems neat - that's obviously excellent with Dreams/Vampiric Tutor.
Can't think of why I resisted getting a Serra's Sanctum, though - I think it just must have been a thing that slipped my mind. I'll need to add that to the shopping list.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
One thing though, in your editing of the list, did you miss count? I see 101 cards with the general. And then if I'm right would you drop a land?
Thanks for a really fun list that hopefully gets a boost when the next Orzhova set comes out.
-the Ragin' Canagian
Anyway, glad to hear other people are having success with this kind of build! It seems like it would compliment Animar almost perfectly. I'm hoping there's some neat stuff in Gatecrash - don't really care so much about the new legend, since Ghost Dad is fairly integrated into the current list, but the Orzhov Guildgate it an automatic inclusion, and I can always hope for a W/B equivalent of Abrupt Decay modelled after Unmake/StP/Mortify...
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
Academy Rector Easy to sacrifice with Ghost Council
Lethal Vapors Interesting way to lock the opponents out of playing creatures
Solitary Confinement Combo with Phyrexian Arena or Underworld Connections
Sphere of Safety Ghostly Prison on steroids
Demonic Collusion Interesting tutor card, use it to dump all of your enchantments, and then tutor for Replenish.
Enduring Ideal Should be #1 tutor target. If resolved, it is game over, as it tutors all of your enchantment win conditions.
Idyllic Tutor No reason not to.
Sun Titan Possible card recursion
Bitterblossom Win condition and combo
Call to the Grave Abyss #2
Contamination Lockdown with Bitterblossom or Spirit Mirror
Damping Field Stony Silence #2
Debtor's Knell Interesting recursion. If opponent has a Yosei, they basically sealed the game for themselves.
Desolation Keeps the pace of the game slow
Equipose Slows down aggro rushes
Exclusion Ritual Anti Commander card. Even if they cast it early game, this shunts it to the Command zone and keeps it there.
Faith's Fetters Flexible removal
Greater Auramancy protection
Greed Extra juicy card draw
Hidden Retreat insurance with Enduring Ideal
Humility Lockdown card (might need alternate win conditions if going this route, like Necra Sanctuary and other life loss enchantments)
Luminarch Ascension win condition
Martial Law ho hum detain
Martyr's Bond Karmic Justice #2
Moat slow down aggro by a lot
Nevermore Anti Commander card
Night of Soul's Betrayal Lockdown with Humility
Noxious Field Lockdown with Humility
Orim's Prayer Lockdown with Humility
Phyrexian Unlife/Delaying Shield Lockdown if assembled
Porphyry Nodes anti aggro. Mini repeatable Wrath effect
Rest in Peace anti Graveyard (have to be careful if relying on Replenish)
Reverence Lockdown with Humility
Rule of Law Anti Combo
Runed Halo Anti Commander
Sigil of the Empty Throne Win Condition
Spirit Mirror Lockdown with Contamination
Spiritual Sanctuary Extra repeatable Life Gain
Spreading Plague Anti Aggro
Null Rod Stony Silence #3
Tainted Aether Anti Aggro
The Abyss Anti Aggro
Wave of Terror Anti Aggro
Crystal Chimes Heck, why not? Replenish #2
EDH Decks:
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Ezuri, Renegade Leader 1v1
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher 1v1
Hythonia the Cruel
Trying to build:
Jenara, Asura of War
Designing a Custom Set:
Clash of the Cultures: 5 Wedges, 5 Cultures
Providing Artwork for:
Archester: Frontier of Steam
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.