"If you would taste the wisdom of the oni, be prepared to salt it with your blood."
Introduction
At first glance, Seizan might be uninteresting to you since it gives a huge advantage to your opponents, while you might be not getting any at all. But then I find him pretty unique and interesting to build around. He's also not mainstream, so it will be a new fun and fresh experience to my fellow Commander players.
He also interacts with other players by making them draw or discard which can affect my opponent's gameplay a lot. That is the main reason why I choose him as my general. I hate decks that are selfish, focusing building and protecting their combo pieces and suddenly win out of nowhere.
You'll enjoy playing this deck if ...
- You like to have a relatively fast Commander game
- You like to draw a lot of cards
- You are a bit suicidal
- You don't like mainstream generals
- You are an "S" type who likes to punish people
Deck Type
Punisher / Anti Group-hug
Theme - Draw/discard
The main theme of the deck. Everybody loves drawing cards! But don't give your opponents all the happiness in the world, make them discard as well. - Direct/effect damage
The advantage of drawing cards comes with a price. Punish those who draws too many cards! - Gain/lose life
This the last but not least deck theme. Always make sure the your opponents suffer more than you. Keep their life ticking down while you regain it!
How to Play the Deck? - Early Game
Develop mana base with mana rocks or tutor up lands with Wayfarer Bauble and Armillary Sphere. Play Seizan on turn 5 or sooner, and let the party begins ... - Mid Game
You would like to keep lowering your opponent's life, don't play all your damaging artifact/enchantments at once, having 2 or 3 out might be enough because this deck is very vulnerable to artifact/enchantment removal. Just be patient and see your opponent's life lowered down in no time. - Late Game
With opponent's life at low numbers, it's time to finish them off with Exsanguinate, or simply kill them by attacking!
Deck's Strength
- Its a low profile deck, your opponents will likely not looking at you while you keep ticking their life down
- It makes everybody happy, who doesn't love drawing a lot of cards?
- Can deal a lot of damage without attacking at all (+style points :D)
- Making decks that loves drawing a lot of cards like Edric or Arcanis hate drawing cards
Deck's Weakness
- Can't handle artifacts and enchantments
- Low creature count = less blocker
- Vulnerable to artifact and enchantment removals
- Decks with a lot of life gain
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In: Grave Titan, Crypt Rats, Griselbrand
- Grave Titan is a great boost to offense and defense. Having deathtouch is nice to discourage opponents attacking you.
- Crypt Rats is another direct damage dealer and creature sweeper, I think it worth a slot in this deck.
- Griselbrand is a nuts addition from Avacyn Restored. He draws you many cards by paying life at instant speed AND can give you back the life paid. Totally insane IMO. He also synergies with Psychosis Crawler. If your life is higher than any opponent, its a GG.
Any suggestions and appreciations are always welcome!
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So, Griselbrand is now officially becomes Griselbanned. It's kinda sad since I have just bought it for not a long time. But still having a great time while he's on the deck!
I also finally managed to get Iron Maiden! Yay!
It's hard to cut something from the deck but finally Praetor's Grasp takes the axe. It's a good card, really, but I don't know what to cut.
I'm currently looking for Horn of Greed. I think it might be a fun inclusion to the deck
I know this is not a mainstream and underrated deck, but it's real fun to play!
So if you have any suggestion or comments about the deck, I'd be really grateful to read it! Thanks!
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Cut Venser's Journal and replace it with Hatred.
This is kinda experimental since I want more damage. I often find Venser's Journal too slow and attracts other player's attention to me because gaining 7+ life a turn is not a joke
With Hatred, I can deal more damage, kill a player out of nowhere and with all lifelink creature I have the paid life can be refilled
I'm also thinking that Praetor's Grasp can be replaced with Grim Tutor, but that's still out of my budget reach
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I've always wondered....so maybe you can clarify, but how do you deal with your opponents always killing Seizan, Perverter of Truth before you get a chance to draw?
At least for my meta, everytime I ran him and since you are the last to make use of his draw ability, the play before would kill him and I never benefited.
From my experience, my opponents won't kill Seizan unless:
- They always have to discard many cards (especially decks that have little to no way to recur cards from graveyard)
- The damage they received from Seizan and his artifacts/enchantments is too many (let's say 6+ damage a turn)
Most of the time, my opponents are okay with Seizan alone. The 2 life loss is probably nothing compared to the card advantage. This even make Seizan a great friend to opponents who have little card draw.
If Seizan is killed, it doesn't really matter because you still have card drawing cards, damage dealing artifacts and enchantments! This is one of many decks that is not that dependent on the general's presence on the battlefield. Seizan sure helps, but without him it's okay as well
EDIT:
As an addition, the key of playing this deck is to keep the damage going. You must control your threatening artifacts and enchantments threat level and not overextend since this deck is really vulnerable to artifact/enchantment destruction (I hate you Austere Command!). Usually I have Seizan out with one or two artifact/enchantment, and that is already quite damaging!
Creativity is investing, experimenting, breakthroughing, taking risk, making mistakes, and HAVING FUN! "Dream creates future." http://levelten.deviantart.com/
I... I love this it's a nice build, and totally not main stream. I don't have contructive critisizm because I'm using this to build my own thanks for inspiring me! If I ever post a decklist, I want to send it to you!
I... I love this it's a nice build, and totally not main stream. I don't have contructive critisizm because I'm using this to build my own thanks for inspiring me! If I ever post a decklist, I want to send it to you!
Thanks rhakee, glad that you like my decklist!
Yes, one reason why I create the deck that it's now mainstream, so it can bring fresh air and gameplay on my playgroup
Currently testing Essence Harvest. Since Hatred proven to be too suicidal, especially when it is countered.
With Essence Harvest, you can deal good amount of damage and gain life.
It also has synergies with the usually high power creature like Kagemaro and Psychosis Crawler. Drana has the potential to have high power too. Oh, and Lashwrithe can pump your creature's power high enough to deal massive damage with Essence Harvest.
With Seizan alone, dealing 6 damage and gaining 6 life for three mana is good enough. Its cheap mana cost means it can be replayed with Yawgmoth's Will for little mana
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Exquisite Blood usually makes me a target while Sanguine Bond rarely doing anything.
Sign in Blood is a cute common that is kinda political since you can give the draw to your opponent to find answers to the biggest threat and damaging him/her more through you artifacts/enchantments!
Misers' Cage is another great addition to the strategy and theme of the deck!
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Really like that deck. Out of the box thinking. A few questions though:
Why did you put out Fond of mythos? You said it gives the opponent too much advantage... but with cards like Mikoro, Seizan or Temple Bell... how do you consider this as disadvantage? Doesn't it kill you enemies faster?
A cool card and also a good protector is Maze of Ith. Since your deck hasn't got that many creatures, this might help keeping beater out of your way.
How useful do you find Dread? I played him in my B/U Deck... and the problem is, that he doesn't do that much. Strong body, yes, but a little passive. Replaced him with Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis . Loving the change, this flying 5/5 exalted is quite a threat and is brilliant removal.
Thank you for the comment!
Font of Mythos was taken out because it makes your opponent draw 3 without any drawback. With Seizan, they take slight 2 damage, but they have to keep him alive to keep drawing cards. Creatures tend to die faster on EDH games than artifacts right?
Meanwhile, with Mikokoro and Temple Bell, I can choose the timing my opponents get the draw. I usually use them on the end step before my turn begins or when someone tutors up an answer to the biggest threat, but it is on the top of his/her library, or whenever I feel it necessary. The card giving ability is pretty political, so I keep them on the deck.
I keep on thinking of Font of Mythos, might try to put it back in someday. But for now, I'm pretty happy with the deck composition.
Maze of Ith is one card that I want to try, but I haven't got it! It's really expensive right now, might be considering proxy-ing it first or borrow it from a friend to test it out before I got one for myself.
Dread is doing great on this deck. Its an attack detterant AND an evasive beater, so he's not that passive!
IMO, Nefarox isn't that great on this kind of deck. Dread is great because it makes opponent think twice to hit me while I can beat them with it without hesitation.
Creativity is investing, experimenting, breakthroughing, taking risk, making mistakes, and HAVING FUN! "Dream creates future." http://levelten.deviantart.com/
Fond of mythos can hurt an enemy pretty bad if you have the right artifacts on the field. On the other hand, if those draw-a-card-take-damage-cards are destroyed, that leaves the fond on the field and with black there is only one card to remove it (Gate to phyrexia) and this card doesn't do well in this deck. So I get why you chose to leave the fond out.
I think you should take out a mana artifact, there should be enough ramp with all the carddraw. Duplicant is an awesome card!
I was lucky enough to get one From the vault:realms. So the maze is available for me
Yeah, Duplicant is awesome! Definitely will test it! But what to cut?
Quote from Darcykun »
Get Geth's Grimoire. Makes Words of Waste worth running, too.
I already got them, but I think tose cards didn't really fit into the deck. For almost all the time, I want my opponent's hand full because Ebony Owl Netsuke, Viseling, Dark Suspicions, etc punish them hard for having a full or more cards than their maximum hand size.
This deck is a deck that punishes decks that like to draw a bunch of cards, especially when Consecrated Sphinx is still on the loose. I remember that one game I had Viseling dealing 20 damage to a player who was drawing a bunch of cards via the Sphinx.
Quote from Highrise »
Just got an idea. Doesn't fit Kokusho, the evening star perfect in this decks theme? Slowly bringing the opponents life total to the ground? On the downside, it might draw a little hate. But as soon as your deck is rolling, I think this is already happening, right?
I considered Kokusho to be on the list, but Kokusho can only unleash it's full potential on a reanimator deck. This Seizan deck is not a reanimator deck and my meta is full of graveyard abuser and reanimators (One reason why I run Suffer the Past, a great GY hoser and finisher). So most likely MY Kokusho will be abused by my opponents more than myself.
One of this deck's weakness is lifegain effects. Even with just one Kokusho trigger by my opponent, really hurts this deck a lot.
EDIT = On a second thought, If Kokusho's being reanimated by other player and the trigger resolves, that would make him/her the biggest threat or attract other opponents to hit him/her. IDK, might reconsider Kokusho, but for now I just don't want to include him yet.
Creativity is investing, experimenting, breakthroughing, taking risk, making mistakes, and HAVING FUN! "Dream creates future." http://levelten.deviantart.com/
Creativity is investing, experimenting, breakthroughing, taking risk, making mistakes, and HAVING FUN! "Dream creates future." http://levelten.deviantart.com/
So, the testing of Sculpting Steel has proven that it deserves a slot on the deck. It's very versatile. It can be a copy of damaging artifacts (this is the main reason), or a mana source, or another Wurmcoil Engine, etc etc
Buried Ruin performs pretty well ... And for Duplicant, haven't really used it yet.
As for another change, I cut one swamp for a Barren Moor, just because it has cycling and goes with the draw theme
I want another black mana producing land that can be cycled for 2 mana, but I forgot the name -_-"
And lastly, I played with some new guy at my LGS, and they said that they're pretty interested with this Seizan deck. They never thought that Seizan could be this devastating!
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Creativity is investing, experimenting, breakthroughing, taking risk, making mistakes, and HAVING FUN! "Dream creates future." http://levelten.deviantart.com/
Check out this link. Click. You can also click further to a site with double-lands. Pretty useful.
It's nice to hear that this deck plays well. I just finished my Sharuum Commander, after that I'll begin with my Seizan Deck, too. Pretty excited already.
Your deck is a multiplayer-deck, right? Or does it have any chance in 1x1 too?
Polluted Mire. That's it!
Thank you! This deck actually got hated sometimes for dealing 6+ damage every upkeep lol
Yes, this is designed for multiplayer. IDK about 1vs1 because at my LGS there are no players playing 1vs1 Commander, but I personally think this deck won't do well on 1vs1 -__-
Anyway, I updated the deck on the first post, apparently there are some errors, some cards haven't taken out or even listed on the first place lol
Creativity is investing, experimenting, breakthroughing, taking risk, making mistakes, and HAVING FUN! "Dream creates future." http://levelten.deviantart.com/
No 1x1? It can be fun if the decks are balanced. One friend of mine put in his Kaalia-deck 15 removal. Did well in 1x1 (and was really annoying), but was pretty weak in multiplayer. I convinced him that multiplayer was more fun and he adapted his deck.
Anyway, Rune-scarred Demon is really good for what he does. Strong, flying body + tutor, which is essential in your deck, I guess.
Pestilence fits the theme, deal pinpoint damage is the way of winning.
Lethal Vapors annoys the crap out of people. What happens then? One sacrifices his turn, the others are greatful for that and punish you more for playing that card. I don't know if people will gang up on you with your current deck. But this card will lead to it.
But if you wanna be annoying in a less annoying way, chose Curse of the Cabal with suspend. People will need to sacrifice permanents till the end of the game to avoid letting it trigger.
Yeah no 1vs1 around here. There was a time where 1vs1 Commander is played on my LGS, but the players prefer the multiplayer so we stick to the multiplayer format.
Personally, I don't like 1vs1 Commander. It ruins the social / political aspect of Commander and made the format competitive.
I prefer the multiplayer Commander because it has tons of hilarious plays, laughters and epic moments. So, I build this deck only with multiplayer mindset
Decided not to test Lethal Vapors because of the same reason.
I don't think Curse of the Cabal fits this deck. Maybe it will be great on a Stax deck, but this deck isn't one.
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Sun Droplet is pretty cute, it makes up the damage received from Seizan or opponents. Not sure if it's gonna stay long enough on the battlefield though.
Sword of Feast and Famine, the discard is kinda on the theme, and untapping lands is huge. Since this deck almost always make the hand full, I want to cast the spells intead of discarding them.
Tainted Aether is another card for controlling opponent's creatures. This deck has low creature count so it's not a big deal. It also hoses infinite creature combos and token making decks
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Creativity is investing, experimenting, breakthroughing, taking risk, making mistakes, and HAVING FUN! "Dream creates future." http://levelten.deviantart.com/
Actually I haven't got the time to test any cards I considered, life's been busy >_<
I'll update this thread again after some game/playtesting
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Well, do you have plenty of turns where you have 5 mana open or not? If so, keep it, if you nearly always tap out completely then don't.
Maze of Ith is awesome. And with Urborg it becomes a mana-making land too.
I think I'm almost always tapped out and don't have the mana to pay Mystifying Maze's cost. That's why I'm looking for Maze of Ith for some time since it only requires tapping.
Anyways another update here since I borrow another Chains of Mephistopheles.
Out: Pestilence, Mystifying Maze
In: Chains of Mephistopheles, Maze of Ith
I take out Pestilence because I don't know what to take out, and Pestilence seems kinda slow I guess since I'm almost always tapped out and don't bring Sword of Feast and Famine (still considering it!)
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The deck is cool. I've been playing Seizan for a couple years now, and I like some of the innovation in your list. That said, I think there are five cards you're missing out on, big time.
Necropotence with Venser's Journal / Reliquary Tower can be absurd. If you have more life than your opponent, it also acts as a finisher with Psychosis Crawler.
Oblivion Stone and Nevinyrral's Disk are essential for ridding yourself of Necropotence once you've had your fill of it. I also find they're the only reliable way black has of dealing with artifacts and enchantments.
Thanks for posting your decklist. I'm tempted to make a few revisions to my Seizan deck and see how it goes. I especially like Kagemaro, First to Suffer and Nirkana Revenant.
The deck is cool. I've been playing Seizan for a couple years now, and I like some of the innovation in your list. That said, I think there are five cards you're missing out on, big time.
Necropotence with Venser's Journal / Reliquary Tower can be absurd. If you have more life than your opponent, it also acts as a finisher with Psychosis Crawler.
Oblivion Stone and Nevinyrral's Disk are essential for ridding yourself of Necropotence once you've had your fill of it. I also find they're the only reliable way black has of dealing with artifacts and enchantments.
Thanks for posting your decklist. I'm tempted to make a few revisions to my Seizan deck and see how it goes. I especially like Kagemaro, First to Suffer and Nirkana Revenant.
Hello Arkion, thanks for the comment! Glad that I have another Seizan player to give some advice!
Necropotence is a great great card. But I find it not really necessary for the deck since the idea is to draw many cards together with my opponents and always fill their hand with cards. That way, we can maximize the damage output from our artifacts and enchantments, plus, we won't be targeted because we give them cards!
The same comment goes to Necrologia. Necrologia might be bad because my meta has many blue players that counters everything. It's gonna be bad if it's countered while we have paid a lot of life.
Oblivion Stone and Nevinyrral Disk are great board sweepers. But I don't really fond of them because they blows our precious artifacts and enchantments! I prefer All is Dust to do the sweeping because it saves out artifacts.
But then, I think that we shouldn't do all the board sweeping job. Let other players do it, if they don't have the card, we can bargain to give them some card draw.
Loxodon Warhammer gives us power and lifelink, but so does Batterskull, it even comes down with a creature! This deck have few creature so I guess Batterskull is superior here.
I've considered running those cards you mentioned, but I have reasons why I don't run them ... Then again, thank you for your comment!
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Mine's a bit focused on getting out Underworld Dreams with Seizan shortly to follow. So I have a lot of tutors. Thanks for the idea of Iron Maiden; that's definitely going in.
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Seizan, Seizer of Souls
"If you would taste the wisdom of the oni, be prepared to salt it with your blood."
Introduction
At first glance, Seizan might be uninteresting to you since it gives a huge advantage to your opponents, while you might be not getting any at all. But then I find him pretty unique and interesting to build around. He's also not mainstream, so it will be a new fun and fresh experience to my fellow Commander players.
He also interacts with other players by making them draw or discard which can affect my opponent's gameplay a lot. That is the main reason why I choose him as my general. I hate decks that are selfish, focusing building and protecting their combo pieces and suddenly win out of nowhere.
You'll enjoy playing this deck if ...
- You like to have a relatively fast Commander game
- You like to draw a lot of cards
- You are a bit suicidal
- You don't like mainstream generals
- You are an "S" type who likes to punish people
Deck Type
Punisher / Anti Group-hug
Theme
- Draw/discard
The main theme of the deck. Everybody loves drawing cards! But don't give your opponents all the happiness in the world, make them discard as well.
- Direct/effect damage
The advantage of drawing cards comes with a price. Punish those who draws too many cards!
- Gain/lose life
This the last but not least deck theme. Always make sure the your opponents suffer more than you. Keep their life ticking down while you regain it!
Decklist
1 Seizan, Perverter of Truth
Creatures (14)
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
1 Viseling
1 Grave Titan
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Dread
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sangromancer
1 Psychosis Crawler
1 Duplicant
1 Rune-scarred Demon
1 Sepulchral Primordial
1 Crypt Ghast
Sorceries (10)
1 Mutilate
1 Exsanguinate
1 Decree of Pain
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Damnation
1 All is Dust
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Beacon of Unrest
Instants (5)
1 Sudden Spoiling
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Suffer the Past
1 Insidious Dreams
1 Darkness
1 No Mercy
1 Liliana's Caress
1 Megrim
1 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Underworld Dreams
1 Wound Reflection
1 Forsaken Wastes
1 Bitterblossom
1 Contamination
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
Artifacts (22)
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Temple Bell
1 Expedition Map
1 Skullcage
1 Ebony Owl Netsuke
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Sol Ring
1 Mind Stone
1 Anvil of Bogardan
1 Memory Jar
1 Batterskull
1 Howling Mine
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Iron Maiden
1 Misers' Cage
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Font of Mythos
1 Sorin Markov
Basic Lands (17)
17 Swamp
Other Lands (21)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Buried Ruin
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Barren Moor
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Strip Mine
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 High Market
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Temple of the False God
1 Terrain Generator
1 Petrified Field
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Deserted Temple
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Maze of Ith
1 Polluted Mire
1 Thespian's Stage
How to Play the Deck?
- Early Game
Develop mana base with mana rocks or tutor up lands with Wayfarer Bauble and Armillary Sphere. Play Seizan on turn 5 or sooner, and let the party begins ...
- Mid Game
You would like to keep lowering your opponent's life, don't play all your damaging artifact/enchantments at once, having 2 or 3 out might be enough because this deck is very vulnerable to artifact/enchantment removal. Just be patient and see your opponent's life lowered down in no time.
- Late Game
With opponent's life at low numbers, it's time to finish them off with Exsanguinate, or simply kill them by attacking!
Deck's Strength
- Its a low profile deck, your opponents will likely not looking at you while you keep ticking their life down
- It makes everybody happy, who doesn't love drawing a lot of cards?
- Can deal a lot of damage without attacking at all (+style points :D)
- Making decks that loves drawing a lot of cards like Edric or Arcanis hate drawing cards
Deck's Weakness
- Can't handle artifacts and enchantments
- Low creature count = less blocker
- Vulnerable to artifact and enchantment removals
- Decks with a lot of life gain
Card Choice Explanations
- Coming Soon -
Card Synergies and Interactions
- Coming Soon -
Changelogs
Out: Polluted Bond, Ankh of Mishra, Bloodgift Demon
In: Grave Titan, Crypt Rats, Griselbrand
Update 06/25/2012
Out: Griselbrand (banned), Praetor's Grasp
In: Bloodgift Demon, Iron Maiden
Update 08/11/2012
Out: Chains of Mephistopheles, Venser's Journal
In: Praetor's Grasp, Hatred
Update 8/13/2012
Out: Hatred
In: Essence Harvest
Update 10/6/2012
Out: Exquisite Blood, Sanguine Bond
In: Sign in Blood, Misers' Cage
Update 10/22/2012
Out: Sign in Blood, Essence Harvest, 2x Swamp
In: Sculpting Steel, Duplicant, Buried Ruin, Barren Moor
Update 11/10/2012
Out: Vampire Nighthawk, Crypt Rats
In: Rune-scarred Demon, Pestilence
Update 11/25/2012
Out: Pestilence, Mystifying Maze
In: Chains of Mephistopheles, Maze of Ith
Update 1/10/2013
Out: 1 Swamp, Magus of the Coffers, Bloodgift Demon, Nirkana Revenant, Swiftfoot Boots, Praetor's Grasp
In: Worn Powerstone, All is Dust, Polluted Mire, Forsaken Wastes, Darkness, Font of Mythos
Update 2/8/2013
Out: Geth
In: Sepulchral Primordial
Update 2/23/2013
Out: Drana, Dark Suspicions
In: Crypt Ghast, Ill-Gotten Gains
Update 3/24/2013
Many changes to the decklist!
Update 5/30/2013
In: Chains of Mephistopheles
Out: Lightning Greaves
Thanks for reading and stay tuned for updates!
Any suggestions and appreciations are always welcomed!
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
Out: Polluted Bond, Ankh of Mishra, Bloodgift Demon
- Apparently I don't really like Polluted Bond and Ankh of Mishra because it makes opponents to look at you as a threat and those cards don't do that much damage as expected.
- For Bloodgift Demon, I cut it currently because I want to test out Griselbrand
In: Grave Titan, Crypt Rats, Griselbrand
- Grave Titan is a great boost to offense and defense. Having deathtouch is nice to discourage opponents attacking you.
- Crypt Rats is another direct damage dealer and creature sweeper, I think it worth a slot in this deck.
- Griselbrand is a nuts addition from Avacyn Restored. He draws you many cards by paying life at instant speed AND can give you back the life paid. Totally insane IMO. He also synergies with Psychosis Crawler. If your life is higher than any opponent, its a GG.
Any suggestions and appreciations are always welcome!
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
With this update, Bloodgift Demon comes back to the deck replacing Griselbrand.
I also finally managed to get Iron Maiden! Yay!
It's hard to cut something from the deck but finally Praetor's Grasp takes the axe. It's a good card, really, but I don't know what to cut.
I'm currently looking for Horn of Greed. I think it might be a fun inclusion to the deck
I know this is not a mainstream and underrated deck, but it's real fun to play!
So if you have any suggestion or comments about the deck, I'd be really grateful to read it! Thanks!
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
Had to let Chains of Mephistopheles go, since I borrowed that card and the owner wants it back ... It makes Praetor's Grasp back into the deck
Cut Venser's Journal and replace it with Hatred.
This is kinda experimental since I want more damage. I often find Venser's Journal too slow and attracts other player's attention to me because gaining 7+ life a turn is not a joke
With Hatred, I can deal more damage, kill a player out of nowhere and with all lifelink creature I have the paid life can be refilled
I'm also thinking that Praetor's Grasp can be replaced with Grim Tutor, but that's still out of my budget reach
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
At least for my meta, everytime I ran him and since you are the last to make use of his draw ability, the play before would kill him and I never benefited.
Thoughts?
| B Erebos, God of VampiresB | GYeva SmashG | RBosh ArtifactsR | GURAnimar +1 BeatsGUR | RBVial's Secret Hot SauceRB | UBRNekusar, Draw if you DareUBR | RGBDarigaaz'z DragonsRGB | GBSlimeFEETGB | UBOn-Hit LazavUB | URBrudiclad's Artificer InventionsUR | GUBMuldrotha's ElementalsGUB | WUGKestia's EnchantmentsWUG | GUTatyova - Draw, Land, Go!GU | WGArahbo's EquipmentWG | BUWVarina's ZOMBIE HORDESBUW | WLyra's Angelic SalvationW | WBChurch of TeysaWB | UAzami...WizardsU
From my experience, my opponents won't kill Seizan unless:
- They always have to discard many cards (especially decks that have little to no way to recur cards from graveyard)
- The damage they received from Seizan and his artifacts/enchantments is too many (let's say 6+ damage a turn)
Most of the time, my opponents are okay with Seizan alone. The 2 life loss is probably nothing compared to the card advantage. This even make Seizan a great friend to opponents who have little card draw.
If Seizan is killed, it doesn't really matter because you still have card drawing cards, damage dealing artifacts and enchantments! This is one of many decks that is not that dependent on the general's presence on the battlefield. Seizan sure helps, but without him it's okay as well
EDIT:
As an addition, the key of playing this deck is to keep the damage going. You must control your threatening artifacts and enchantments threat level and not overextend since this deck is really vulnerable to artifact/enchantment destruction (I hate you Austere Command!). Usually I have Seizan out with one or two artifact/enchantment, and that is already quite damaging!
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
Epic Signature by the one and only Ace in Ace of Spades Studio
Proud member of the Spirit of EDH
BGW Teneb, the Harvester [Primer]
R Márton Stromgald
WUB Dakkon Blackblade
GR Atarka, World Render
{Writing and Rants}
WUBRG The Primeval Dragon's influence on EDH
Thanks rhakee, glad that you like my decklist!
Yes, one reason why I create the deck that it's now mainstream, so it can bring fresh air and gameplay on my playgroup
Currently testing Essence Harvest. Since Hatred proven to be too suicidal, especially when it is countered.
With Essence Harvest, you can deal good amount of damage and gain life.
It also has synergies with the usually high power creature like Kagemaro and Psychosis Crawler. Drana has the potential to have high power too. Oh, and Lashwrithe can pump your creature's power high enough to deal massive damage with Essence Harvest.
With Seizan alone, dealing 6 damage and gaining 6 life for three mana is good enough. Its cheap mana cost means it can be replayed with Yawgmoth's Will for little mana
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
Replaced Exquisite Blood and Sanguine Bond with Sign in Blood and Misers' Cage!
Exquisite Blood usually makes me a target while Sanguine Bond rarely doing anything.
Sign in Blood is a cute common that is kinda political since you can give the draw to your opponent to find answers to the biggest threat and damaging him/her more through you artifacts/enchantments!
Misers' Cage is another great addition to the strategy and theme of the deck!
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
Thank you for the comment!
Font of Mythos was taken out because it makes your opponent draw 3 without any drawback. With Seizan, they take slight 2 damage, but they have to keep him alive to keep drawing cards. Creatures tend to die faster on EDH games than artifacts right?
Meanwhile, with Mikokoro and Temple Bell, I can choose the timing my opponents get the draw. I usually use them on the end step before my turn begins or when someone tutors up an answer to the biggest threat, but it is on the top of his/her library, or whenever I feel it necessary. The card giving ability is pretty political, so I keep them on the deck.
I keep on thinking of Font of Mythos, might try to put it back in someday. But for now, I'm pretty happy with the deck composition.
Maze of Ith is one card that I want to try, but I haven't got it! It's really expensive right now, might be considering proxy-ing it first or borrow it from a friend to test it out before I got one for myself.
Dread is doing great on this deck. Its an attack detterant AND an evasive beater, so he's not that passive!
IMO, Nefarox isn't that great on this kind of deck. Dread is great because it makes opponent think twice to hit me while I can beat them with it without hesitation.
Lastly, I just got a Sculpting Steel! I think this will be a great addition to the deck, it copies our damaging artifacts, Sword of War and Peace, Lightning Greaves, Wurmcoil Engine, Steel Hellkite or our opponents great artifacts ...
I also considered putting in Duplicant, a great creature and creature removal, but I don't know what to take out!!
Any suggestions are welcome! :XD:
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
Draft my Peasant Cube.
Yeah, Duplicant is awesome! Definitely will test it! But what to cut?
I already got them, but I think tose cards didn't really fit into the deck. For almost all the time, I want my opponent's hand full because Ebony Owl Netsuke, Viseling, Dark Suspicions, etc punish them hard for having a full or more cards than their maximum hand size.
This deck is a deck that punishes decks that like to draw a bunch of cards, especially when Consecrated Sphinx is still on the loose. I remember that one game I had Viseling dealing 20 damage to a player who was drawing a bunch of cards via the Sphinx.
I considered Kokusho to be on the list, but Kokusho can only unleash it's full potential on a reanimator deck. This Seizan deck is not a reanimator deck and my meta is full of graveyard abuser and reanimators (One reason why I run Suffer the Past, a great GY hoser and finisher). So most likely MY Kokusho will be abused by my opponents more than myself.
One of this deck's weakness is lifegain effects. Even with just one Kokusho trigger by my opponent, really hurts this deck a lot.
EDIT = On a second thought, If Kokusho's being reanimated by other player and the trigger resolves, that would make him/her the biggest threat or attract other opponents to hit him/her. IDK, might reconsider Kokusho, but for now I just don't want to include him yet.
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
Cutting Sign in Blood, Essence Harvest and a Swamp.
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
Buried Ruin performs pretty well ... And for Duplicant, haven't really used it yet.
As for another change, I cut one swamp for a Barren Moor, just because it has cycling and goes with the draw theme
I want another black mana producing land that can be cycled for 2 mana, but I forgot the name -_-"
And lastly, I played with some new guy at my LGS, and they said that they're pretty interested with this Seizan deck. They never thought that Seizan could be this devastating!
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
Polluted Mire. That's it!
Thank you! This deck actually got hated sometimes for dealing 6+ damage every upkeep lol
Yes, this is designed for multiplayer. IDK about 1vs1 because at my LGS there are no players playing 1vs1 Commander, but I personally think this deck won't do well on 1vs1 -__-
Anyway, I updated the deck on the first post, apparently there are some errors, some cards haven't taken out or even listed on the first place lol
Also I'm considering Rune-scarred Demon, Pestilence and Lethal Vapor to be more control-ish ... And again I'm confused about what to cut from the deck ...
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
Yeah no 1vs1 around here. There was a time where 1vs1 Commander is played on my LGS, but the players prefer the multiplayer so we stick to the multiplayer format.
Personally, I don't like 1vs1 Commander. It ruins the social / political aspect of Commander and made the format competitive.
I prefer the multiplayer Commander because it has tons of hilarious plays, laughters and epic moments. So, I build this deck only with multiplayer mindset
Currently testing out the Rune-scarred Demon and Pestilence, cutting Vampire Nighthawk and Crypt Rats.
Decided not to test Lethal Vapors because of the same reason.
I don't think Curse of the Cabal fits this deck. Maybe it will be great on a Stax deck, but this deck isn't one.
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
Considering to try Sun Droplet, Sword of Feast and Famine and Tainted Aether!
Sun Droplet is pretty cute, it makes up the damage received from Seizan or opponents. Not sure if it's gonna stay long enough on the battlefield though.
Sword of Feast and Famine, the discard is kinda on the theme, and untapping lands is huge. Since this deck almost always make the hand full, I want to cast the spells intead of discarding them.
Tainted Aether is another card for controlling opponent's creatures. This deck has low creature count so it's not a big deal. It also hoses infinite creature combos and token making decks
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
Ah, I see ...
But still, Sun Droplet will be tested!
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
The only suggestions I can make personally would be Winding Canyons, Vedalken Orrery, and Necropotence for some added card advantage.
As far as your artifacts go, I'd say remove bauble, ingot, and dynamo, for Caged Sun. I'd remove Mind Stone for Nihil Spellbomb. Maybe throw in a Font of Mythos?
Also for personal taste I wouldn't run too many fatties that get targeted down. Instead I'd run Neither Traitor, Bloodghast, and Reassembling Skeleton. But that's just me.
WUBRGUnexpected Results
WBRAggro Burn Flicker
EDH:
GOmnath, Locust of Mana (Retired)
BUSygg, River Cutthroat
RBosh, Iron Golem
Actually I haven't got the time to test any cards I considered, life's been busy >_<
I'll update this thread again after some game/playtesting
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
I think I'm almost always tapped out and don't have the mana to pay Mystifying Maze's cost. That's why I'm looking for Maze of Ith for some time since it only requires tapping.
Anyways another update here since I borrow another Chains of Mephistopheles.
Out: Pestilence, Mystifying Maze
In: Chains of Mephistopheles, Maze of Ith
I take out Pestilence because I don't know what to take out, and Pestilence seems kinda slow I guess since I'm almost always tapped out and don't bring Sword of Feast and Famine (still considering it!)
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
Necropotence with Venser's Journal / Reliquary Tower can be absurd. If you have more life than your opponent, it also acts as a finisher with Psychosis Crawler.
Oblivion Stone and Nevinyrral's Disk are essential for ridding yourself of Necropotence once you've had your fill of it. I also find they're the only reliable way black has of dealing with artifacts and enchantments.
Thanks for posting your decklist. I'm tempted to make a few revisions to my Seizan deck and see how it goes. I especially like Kagemaro, First to Suffer and Nirkana Revenant.
Hello Arkion, thanks for the comment! Glad that I have another Seizan player to give some advice!
Necropotence is a great great card. But I find it not really necessary for the deck since the idea is to draw many cards together with my opponents and always fill their hand with cards. That way, we can maximize the damage output from our artifacts and enchantments, plus, we won't be targeted because we give them cards!
The same comment goes to Necrologia. Necrologia might be bad because my meta has many blue players that counters everything. It's gonna be bad if it's countered while we have paid a lot of life.
Oblivion Stone and Nevinyrral Disk are great board sweepers. But I don't really fond of them because they blows our precious artifacts and enchantments! I prefer All is Dust to do the sweeping because it saves out artifacts.
But then, I think that we shouldn't do all the board sweeping job. Let other players do it, if they don't have the card, we can bargain to give them some card draw.
Loxodon Warhammer gives us power and lifelink, but so does Batterskull, it even comes down with a creature! This deck have few creature so I guess Batterskull is superior here.
I've considered running those cards you mentioned, but I have reasons why I don't run them ... Then again, thank you for your comment!
"Dream creates future."
http://levelten.deviantart.com/
-- EDH --
B Seizan, Perverter of Truth B
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=417779
Mine's a bit focused on getting out Underworld Dreams with Seizan shortly to follow. So I have a lot of tutors. Thanks for the idea of Iron Maiden; that's definitely going in.
--Mike Singletary