I just wanted to start a thread to gush about my favorite Cube card from Innistrad block. This card is quite a commitment to green but the payoff is totally worth it. Even without ways to abuse its undying ability it is almost always at least a 2 for 1 or a 3 for 1. It has been my experience in Cube that the card will usually just win the game. This will happen either by forcing the opponent to waste many resources dealing with one 5-drop or by the big insect vigilancing & trampling his way to victory.
Other green 5-drops are easier to cast but if I could only have one green 5-drop in a deck where green is a main color then I would take Vorapede every time.
Bottom line is if you're not currently running Vorapede then just test it. It will definitely earn a slot.
What has everyone else's experience with Vorapede been like?
I just wanted to start a thread to gush about my favorite Cube card from Innistrad block. This card is quite a commitment to green but the payoff is totally worth it. Even without ways to abuse its undying ability it is almost always at least a 2 for 1 or a 3 for 1. It has been my experience in Cube that the card will usually just win the game. This will happen either by forcing the opponent to waste many resources dealing with one 5-drop or by the big insect vigilancing & trampling his way to victory.
Other green 5-drops are easier to cast but if I could only have one green 5-drop in a deck where green is a main color then I would take Vorapede every time.
Bottom line is if you're not currently running Vorapede then just test it. It will definitely earn a slot.
What has everyone else's experience with Vorapede been like?
nutty, is all I can say. It more than makes up for the loss of shroud on Kodama of the North Tree.
Just for fun, here is my digital render I happened to do last night:
I love Vorapede in my cube. He's a house. I also like how efficiently costed he is. I actually picked him over PT once and he won me a game I would've otherwise lost.
Also, sidenote, incredible proxy Happy. Did you make the image stock? Or did you put some pieces together for that?
I love Vorapede in my cube. He's a house. I also like how efficiently costed he is. I actually picked him over PT once and he won me a game I would've otherwise lost.
Also, sidenote, incredible proxy Happy. Did you make the image stock? Or did you put some pieces together for that?
Its stock actually. Also, Gigapede better than Vorapede? realllllllyyyyyy!?!?!
Only if do-nothing midrange and control are the dominant archetypes can Gigapede > Vorapede (since Gigapede is very good vs those strategies, as they have few blockers that can deal with the 6/1 outside of mass-removal, much like how it was used in UG Madness decks to fight Psychatog.dec back in the day.)
There's a local cube which has a nearly non-existent aggro section where Gigapede is the sickness and while I'm guessing it isn't that bad in the referenced post, it's probably an environment where midrange and control are the dominant archetypes.
Only if do-nothing midrange and control are the dominant archetypes can Gigapede > Vorapede (since Gigapede is very good vs those strategies, as they have few blockers that can deal with the 6/1 outside of mass-removal, much like how it was used in UG Madness decks to fight Psychatog.dec back in the day.)
There's a local cube which has a nearly non-existent aggro section where Gigapede is the sickness and while I'm guessing it isn't that bad in the referenced post, it's probably an environment where midrange and control are the dominant archetypes.
And if they have even one card like Lingering Souls its horrible. Hell, even Squee Laughs at gigapede while being card advantage at the same time.
I'd say the only one I would trade out for Vorapede would be Chameleon Colossus. He was great in constructed, but he's not so great in cube except when the protection matters. I also think the trample is huge, and I'd like to see more tramplers in green.
Vigilance is so good. It wins races on the spot. Combined with trample, this creature is really good. And if they manage to kill it, it comes back with 6 power. Love it.
Its stock actually. Also, Gigapede better than Vorapede? realllllllyyyyyy!?!?!
please explain.
My cube is a bit more Fish-Johnny friendly so a card that acts as a hard to deal with large body that keeps coming back and can function as an engine while also supporting other engines is pretty good.
In other words, while Vorapede is better in a vacuum, Gigapede is better as a synergy card. It also plays well with Lingering Souls as you can get both off of a Life From the Loam if you're going down that route... Squee also becomes a 6/1 Shroud guy with him instead of a 1/1... More so, he's a great card with Basking Rootwalla when the situation comes up, and has some fun interactions with Survival of the Fittest. Even Entomb has a reasonable interaction with this guy when you need it to. He also enables Haakon, Stromgald Scourge if need be.
As a whole to me Gigapede is just FAR more exciting, since Vorapede is just a big dumb guy who either gets killed twice in a cube filled with 2 for 1 removal, gets exiled initially, tapped out with an Icy Manipulator, or killed and then exiled from the grave with the undying trigger still on the stack.
Vorapede is just a big dumb guy who either gets killed twice in a cube filled with 2 for 1 removal, gets exiled initially, tapped out with an Icy Manipulator, or killed and then exiled from the grave with the undying trigger still on the stack.
This has been pretty far from my experiences with Vorapede. Your opponent doesn't usually have TWO removal spells to deal with both faces of Vorapede at once. Green has a ton of artifact removal to deal with Icy effects. And there's only two graveyard exiling cards in the cube. So... unless they have the Path/Swords ready to go, Vorapede does FAR more for us that the Gigapede ever did. Cube is a combat-oriented environment. Gigapede just dies to every creature in the cube. And even though you can get it back, it costs you a card to do it, so instead of being card advantage like the Undying creature, he's just a slow card parity grind. When both players have creatures, there's no question... the Vorapede is just so much better. The evasion keeps your opponent's bears from preventing damage, and it doesn't die in combat to Soldier tokens. And the Vigilance stops them from attacking you. Additionally, you can target the Vorapede with your equipment spells, and the trample lets your Sword triggers happen every time. And if you have the opportunity to blink/recast the Vorapede, it's just too much CA and board advantage for your opponent to be able to recover. And while Gigapede is a discard outlet, it's too slow to be a true enabler. For Loam strategies, reanimation decks and getting value from flashback spells, etc... 5cc is just too much. I'm sure the interactions show up from time to time, but it's too expensive to be a true "enabler" for those archetypes (at least, a good enabler). So, ya... every way you slice it, you're better off with Vorapede. In power-level, cubability, intrestingness, etc; at least, in my opinion.
This has been pretty far from my experiences with Vorapede. Your opponent doesn't usually have TWO removal spells to deal with both faces of Vorapede at once. Green has a ton of artifact removal to deal with Icy effects. And there's only two graveyard exiling cards in the cube. So... unless they have the Path/Swords ready to go, Vorapede does FAR more for us that the Gigapede ever did. Cube is a combat-oriented environment. Gigapede just dies to every creature in the cube. And even though you can get it back, it costs you a card to do it, so instead of being card advantage like the Undying creature, he's just a slow card parity grind. When both players have creatures, there's no question... the Vorapede is just so much better. The evasion keeps your opponent's bears from preventing damage, and it doesn't die in combat to Soldier tokens. And the Vigilance stops them from attacking you. Additionally, you can target the Vorapede with your equipment spells, and the trample lets your Sword triggers happen every time. And if you have the opportunity to blink/recast the Vorapede, it's just too much CA and board advantage for your opponent to be able to recover. And while Gigapede is a discard outlet, it's too slow to be a true enabler. For Loam strategies, reanimation decks and getting value from flashback spells, etc... 5cc is just too much. I'm sure the interactions show up from time to time, but it's too expensive to be a true "enabler" for those archetypes (at least, a good enabler). So, ya... every way you slice it, you're better off with Vorapede. In power-level, cubability, intrestingness, etc; at least, in my opinion.
Yes, any way you slice it in your cube. However, there are a few fundamental differences in the two cubes. Such as follows:
1.) My cube does not include moxen, thus games are slower and allow things like Gigapede to be more relevant.
2.) The mana base in my cube intentionally contains drawbacks (Pains, Shocks, M10/INN), so GGG isn't exactly difficult to achieve, but is a bit harder. The fast mana also tends to be colourless (Vault, Sol, Grim) and as such GG is relevant.
3.) I include more removal, featuring things like Psionic Blast and more importantly Brittle Effigy which allows all colours to have a strong answer to Vorapede but not Gigapede.
5.) Your cube has a much stronger creature base, including the Titans, Wurmcoil, and other large creatures that can win the game instantly. My cube on the other hand is more about utility creatures and does not include the Titans or Wurmcoil but contains Elesh, Kokusho, and even Brine Elemental.
Those issues being addressed, and neglecting some other differences (such as Sneak Attack and Birthing Pod being in your cube but not mine.), there are other issues with this discussion. Sure, Gigapede has issues with tokens, but so does Chainer's Edict, and this is part of why I like this card, because it's a card you need to consider when making board choices and building a deck. More so, the argument about cards like Maze of Ith, Sower of Temptation, and even Dungeon Geist hasn't been considered at all, where Vorapede suffers from these cards and Gigapede doesn't. You also haven't considered things like the Masticores and anything that's an x/6 and would ignore Vorapede prior to undying but not Gigapede. Finally while Gigapede isn't an early game enabler for certain strategies, it is a mid game enabler that provides you with a reasonable extra attached and gels well with Life from the Loam or other dredge activations.
All and all, I do agree Vorapede is the better card in a vacuum, but I disagree that it's strictly better than Gigapede for a myriad of reasons.
Edit: After typing all of that and hitting enter it gave me a 404 error... I was horrified but luckily the back button was there for me D:
I didn't say it was strictly better. I said it was better. And Gigapede was just B.A.D. when we used it. A 1-toughness creature with no evasion and no combat protection was just a huge stinker (and for 5 mana?!). Vorapede has been the far more consistent and powerful repeatable threat. Differences in our cube aside, I'd still take the Vorapede form the pack 10 times out of 10, and leave that Gigapede for someone else.
I'd say the only one I would trade out for Vorapede would be Chameleon Colossus. He was great in constructed, but he's not so great in cube except when the protection matters. I also think the trample is huge, and I'd like to see more tramplers in green.
Blastoderm, its easily the weakest of all of those.
Vorapede is honestly my favorite green midrange dude in the cube. He may be my favorite green fatty in the cube, but Woodfall and Hornet Queen put up a fight for that claim. He does EVERYTHING I want a green 5 drop to do. He's resilient to removal, he has some form of evasion, and he stops me from getting killed back. Plus he's really efficient for his cost. I can't imagine this guy getting cut . . . . ever. It'd take a really weird turn for green for me to decide this isn't worth it. He really seems like the epitome of what I want green to do.
Loved Vorapede from day one and it gets better every time it turns up. I haven't seen it satisfactorily answered once - it always ends up in card disadvantage for the opponent, and generally a huge chunk of damage. The triple green isn't even that nasty. The average G/X deck with some fixing should hit it on curve reasonably frequently. Also, Lightning Greaves.
Curious how this guy stacks up in people's eyes currently I decided to grab him on a whim when I was getting other cards for my cube and saw him lying around.
I was going to ask in the This/That a similar question so I'll just post it here:
Would you play this over Wolfir Silverheart?
Thoughts on Vorapede: obv really strong once its on the board, the main diffculty I've found with him is the casting cost often puts him as your 3rd-4th best five drop you draft unless you're heavy green which means he rides the bench more often than other green five drops.
That said if someone convinced me to play Jokulhaups again I'd have to make sure I had this guy in as well.
I think it's more consistent than the Silverheart. Wolfir can be much more explosive, but it can be wrecked by a single removal spell. Vorapede is much more resilient, and the evasion helps push damage through blockers while the vigilance preserves your life total. It's a good creature for sure.
I love both Vorapede & Wolfir Silverheart. Silverheart is a ton of damage out of nowhere and Vorapede is a nightmare in some matchups. I run both in 540 & they easily make the cut.
We run 4 5-drop creatures in green, Acidic Slime, Deranged Hermit, Kalonian Hydra, and Thragtusk, all of which to me are a little more powerful than Vorapede. I probably wouldn't play it at 360 because I dont think 360 cubes really need 5 5-drops, but any higher and he's an easy shoe in, seems absolutely insane.
I have never much cared for deranged hermit (I've found that too often it's 5 mana make 4 1/1's, or even worse pay the echo and get blown out by instant speed removal 10 mana make 4 1/1's) and we don't play it, and given how efficient removal is in cube, I actually like vorapede better than kalonian hydra. It always makes the deck whenever a green drafter picks it up, and I'm always happy when it hits the table in my decks. Undying is obviously insane on this card, and the vigilance is surprisingly relevant. I think it's an auto-include in a normal cube of 450 or more. I can easily see it not making 360 though (although I would include it at 360 over hydra and hermit, but that's personal preference).
I like Hermit since its abuse-able with bounce and blink effects. The one I could see it competing with is Hydra if somebody really wants Vorapede but after some consideration I'm gonna test him out.
I just wanted to start a thread to gush about my favorite Cube card from Innistrad block. This card is quite a commitment to green but the payoff is totally worth it. Even without ways to abuse its undying ability it is almost always at least a 2 for 1 or a 3 for 1. It has been my experience in Cube that the card will usually just win the game. This will happen either by forcing the opponent to waste many resources dealing with one 5-drop or by the big insect vigilancing & trampling his way to victory.
Other green 5-drops are easier to cast but if I could only have one green 5-drop in a deck where green is a main color then I would take Vorapede every time.
Bottom line is if you're not currently running Vorapede then just test it. It will definitely earn a slot.
What has everyone else's experience with Vorapede been like?
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nutty, is all I can say. It more than makes up for the loss of shroud on Kodama of the North Tree.
Just for fun, here is my digital render I happened to do last night:
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Also, sidenote, incredible proxy Happy. Did you make the image stock? Or did you put some pieces together for that?
Its stock actually. Also, Gigapede better than Vorapede? realllllllyyyyyy!?!?!
please explain.
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There's a local cube which has a nearly non-existent aggro section where Gigapede is the sickness and while I'm guessing it isn't that bad in the referenced post, it's probably an environment where midrange and control are the dominant archetypes.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
And if they have even one card like Lingering Souls its horrible. Hell, even Squee Laughs at gigapede while being card advantage at the same time.
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I'd say the only one I would trade out for Vorapede would be Chameleon Colossus. He was great in constructed, but he's not so great in cube except when the protection matters. I also think the trample is huge, and I'd like to see more tramplers in green.
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My cube is a bit more Fish-Johnny friendly so a card that acts as a hard to deal with large body that keeps coming back and can function as an engine while also supporting other engines is pretty good.
In other words, while Vorapede is better in a vacuum, Gigapede is better as a synergy card. It also plays well with Lingering Souls as you can get both off of a Life From the Loam if you're going down that route... Squee also becomes a 6/1 Shroud guy with him instead of a 1/1... More so, he's a great card with Basking Rootwalla when the situation comes up, and has some fun interactions with Survival of the Fittest. Even Entomb has a reasonable interaction with this guy when you need it to. He also enables Haakon, Stromgald Scourge if need be.
As a whole to me Gigapede is just FAR more exciting, since Vorapede is just a big dumb guy who either gets killed twice in a cube filled with 2 for 1 removal, gets exiled initially, tapped out with an Icy Manipulator, or killed and then exiled from the grave with the undying trigger still on the stack.
This has been pretty far from my experiences with Vorapede. Your opponent doesn't usually have TWO removal spells to deal with both faces of Vorapede at once. Green has a ton of artifact removal to deal with Icy effects. And there's only two graveyard exiling cards in the cube. So... unless they have the Path/Swords ready to go, Vorapede does FAR more for us that the Gigapede ever did. Cube is a combat-oriented environment. Gigapede just dies to every creature in the cube. And even though you can get it back, it costs you a card to do it, so instead of being card advantage like the Undying creature, he's just a slow card parity grind. When both players have creatures, there's no question... the Vorapede is just so much better. The evasion keeps your opponent's bears from preventing damage, and it doesn't die in combat to Soldier tokens. And the Vigilance stops them from attacking you. Additionally, you can target the Vorapede with your equipment spells, and the trample lets your Sword triggers happen every time. And if you have the opportunity to blink/recast the Vorapede, it's just too much CA and board advantage for your opponent to be able to recover. And while Gigapede is a discard outlet, it's too slow to be a true enabler. For Loam strategies, reanimation decks and getting value from flashback spells, etc... 5cc is just too much. I'm sure the interactions show up from time to time, but it's too expensive to be a true "enabler" for those archetypes (at least, a good enabler). So, ya... every way you slice it, you're better off with Vorapede. In power-level, cubability, intrestingness, etc; at least, in my opinion.
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1.) My cube does not include moxen, thus games are slower and allow things like Gigapede to be more relevant.
2.) The mana base in my cube intentionally contains drawbacks (Pains, Shocks, M10/INN), so GGG isn't exactly difficult to achieve, but is a bit harder. The fast mana also tends to be colourless (Vault, Sol, Grim) and as such GG is relevant.
3.) I include more removal, featuring things like Psionic Blast and more importantly Brittle Effigy which allows all colours to have a strong answer to Vorapede but not Gigapede.
4.) My cube also includes more Graveyard hate, such as Relic of Progenitous, Withered Wretch, and even Faerie Macabre.
5.) Your cube has a much stronger creature base, including the Titans, Wurmcoil, and other large creatures that can win the game instantly. My cube on the other hand is more about utility creatures and does not include the Titans or Wurmcoil but contains Elesh, Kokusho, and even Brine Elemental.
Those issues being addressed, and neglecting some other differences (such as Sneak Attack and Birthing Pod being in your cube but not mine.), there are other issues with this discussion. Sure, Gigapede has issues with tokens, but so does Chainer's Edict, and this is part of why I like this card, because it's a card you need to consider when making board choices and building a deck. More so, the argument about cards like Maze of Ith, Sower of Temptation, and even Dungeon Geist hasn't been considered at all, where Vorapede suffers from these cards and Gigapede doesn't. You also haven't considered things like the Masticores and anything that's an x/6 and would ignore Vorapede prior to undying but not Gigapede. Finally while Gigapede isn't an early game enabler for certain strategies, it is a mid game enabler that provides you with a reasonable extra attached and gels well with Life from the Loam or other dredge activations.
All and all, I do agree Vorapede is the better card in a vacuum, but I disagree that it's strictly better than Gigapede for a myriad of reasons.
Edit: After typing all of that and hitting enter it gave me a 404 error... I was horrified but luckily the back button was there for me D:
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Blastoderm, its easily the weakest of all of those.
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Would you play this over Wolfir Silverheart?
Thoughts on Vorapede: obv really strong once its on the board, the main diffculty I've found with him is the casting cost often puts him as your 3rd-4th best five drop you draft unless you're heavy green which means he rides the bench more often than other green five drops.
That said if someone convinced me to play Jokulhaups again I'd have to make sure I had this guy in as well.
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You can't burn it twice.
You can't wrath him.
You can't chump him.
Can't really race a 5/4 with vigilance.
Mind control works for one life, I guess.
I run Vorapede and the Silverheart, but if pressed I'd take the vorapede, I think?
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