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It can be horrible card disadvantage, and it sure is no Mox Diamond, but zero-mana acceleration is nothing to sneeze at. Starting at one less card in hand, but one mana ahead, can be pretty cool.
Verdict: Not for every playgroup, but pretty good and definitely worth testing at least.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
I don't think it's a staple. I think it's a fine include for 450. I think it's a staple in an unpowered 450 cube, or in a powered 540 cube, but I like it in my cube just fine. It's no Mox Diamond, but it's still an excellent card.
I run it but it isn't an auto run card at all. I like it in aggro decks that don't mind tossing a card to get to play more threats earlier. I wouldn't usually play it in a control deck that doesn't want such card disadvantage.
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For me Mox Chrome is more a staple than Mox Diamond could ever be.
Funny, because this can't really be the case.
If you play the two cards correctly, Mox Diamond is almost strictly better than Chrome Mox. Chrome Mox takes up a land slot. Mox Diamond takes up a spell slot. Because of that balance, neither will net you more gas or more mana sources than the other in any given hypothetical.
So, in any time you'd have one or the other, the hands would have to look like this:
Spell
Spell
Spell
Mox Diamond
Land
Land
Land
OR
Spell
Spell
Spell
Spell
Chrome Mox
Land
Land
(because the Chrome Mox would've hypothetically replaced the 3rd land in the Mox Diamond opener, and the Diamond would've hypothetically replaced the 4th spell slot in the Chrome opener)
So, when you're done playing the Mox on T1, your hands will be identical.
Either situation nets you the same amount of gas and the same number of mana sources. Both give you 2 mana on T1, and cap you at 3 total mana sources. The differences, are as follows:
~Mox Diamond always fixes your mana. Regardless of what card you pitch to it, it gives you all 5 colors of mana every time.
~Mox Diamond replaced the worst card in your deck, not the worst card in your hand.
~The card pitched by Mox Diamond can be recovered; the card lost to Chrome Mox is gone forever.
So, in every case, Mox Diamond is better.
One of the only advantages the Chrome Mox has is in situations where you don't cast it. You can opt to keep a 2-land hand with 4 gas spells and never use the Chrome Mox. With the Mox Diamond, you have 1 more land, but one less gas spell if it's never played. That's the only conceivable situation in the cube where Chrome Mox has more value, and that's not very good (and it's not even always better in those situations, either). The only time it's better than Mox Diamond is when you opt NOT to play it.
..........
tl;dr = Mox Diamond is better than Chrome Mox in almost every situation where you would actually cast one of the two.
..........
Super Edit:
There are two other corner cases I came up with where the Chrome Mox could be the superior card: A) You want to cast it without imprinting a card on it (before a Tezz 1 ultimate, with Tezz 2 as a 5/5 or as a free Tinker target) and B) You have a Demonic Turor, Vampiric Turor or Imperial Seal in your deck (you have one less potential non-land target for those cards if you're running Diamond instead). But even with those cases calculated for, I'm more than comfortable calling Mox Diamond damn-near strictly better in the cube.
Don't get me wrong, I like Chrome Mox just fine. But it's simply no Mox Diamond as far as cube quality is concerned. Constructed is a different animal altogether.
The concept of land slot vs. spell slot is exactly that: a concept, which can describe some things, and it can't describe others. Kitchen Finks and Island are examples where this concept works, Mind Stone, the Moxen and Llanowar Elves are places where it falls a little short or needs additional clarification.
So what do we mean by "this card takes a land slot"? I think we mean the following: It can be played with no mana investment at all, and having it in your hand means one more mana per turn as opposed to if you didn't. Lands (Maze of Ith aside) satisfy this condition, Kitchen Finks doesn't. This is important because it answers the question "how much mana will I have available ingame?", which is very crucial in deck construction. If you're a control deck, you need to have many cards that satisfy these condition in order to play your spells, an aggro deck can eschew a few land slots for more business.
Beta Moxen are functionally identical to lands (even better). So your example deck draws mana-spell distributions as if it contained 19 lands, thus I think we should speak of nineteen land slots. Mind Stone is not functionally identical to lands: You need to invest two mana first, meaning that a hand of two land, Mind Stone, spells is a lot different from three land, spells. (compare to moxen: two land, moxen, spells is pretty much the same as three land, spells)
So, beta moxen out of the way, how about the two in question? Mox Diamond doesn't mean you have more mana than if you didn't have Mox (compare two land, Mox, spells, which equals two mana, to three land, spells, which equals three mana), so it's not functionally identical to a land, much more to a zero-mana non-card draw Explore. It accelerates, but it doesn't help you top out at one more mana. Chrome Mox, however, does let you top out at one more mana (two lands, Chrome Mox, spells is three mana, two lands, spells is two, three lands, spells is three, so pretty much identical to the first), so it is justified in a land slot.
That's also why Maze of Ith is not a land: It doesn't produce any mana at all (like Kitchen Finks), so it doesn't affect at how much mana you top out, so it doesn't occupy a land slot. So by "play seventeen land, Chrome Mox and the beta moxen count as lands", we mean "you should play seventeen cards that contribute to letting you top out at more mana". That's by the way why karoo lands are so good: In a way, they are two lands in one, meaning you practically have one more card. Tempo aside, two land, Karoo, four spells is one more spell than four land, three spells, but both top at four mana.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
I like Chrome Mox but it is worse than Mox Diamond. Mox Diamond basically asks you to pitch a land to become an extra land drop that just so happens to be a permanent Gemstone Mine. Chrome Mox requires you to give up a spell in your hand to get any mana out of it. I've had more than a few hands/draws during my time with Cube where the cards in my hand were too good/too valuable to pitch any of them away for an accelerator.
Nothing in this game is degenerate or completely dominant. They haven't banned anything in standard in a long, long time. Hell they should have banned affinity right away, but they didn't until boxed sales collapsed too. Hasbro had to come in and fire people.
I'll enjoy watching all the whiners eat crow monday.
But no, Chrome Mox doesn't always take a land slot.
Lets say you determine that you want to build a deck with 17 mana sources. Are you telling me that you'd count Chrome Mox as a spell and run it in addition to 17 lands in a deck you've already decided needs 17 mana sources in it?
No you wouldn't, unless you're making a mistake when deckbuilding. You can't determine that the proper number of mana sources is 17 and then run 18 total mana sources and hold it against Mox Diamond. Any deck that runs either would have 1 more land and 1 less spell, the spell being replaced with the Diamond and the Chrome being replaced with a land.
Quote from Hankroyd »
Spell
Spell
Spell
Chrome Mox
Land
Land
Land
Which is for me way better than the same where Chrome Mox is replaced with Mox Diamond.
It doesn't work that way. In any deck that would have Chrome Mox in their opener, you wouldn't have Mox Diamond in there instead. You'd have +1 land and one of the spells would be a Mox Diamond. And vice versa, one of the lands would be the Chrome Mox in a Diamond opener and you'd have an extra spell.
In any conceivable hypothetical, your hand is identical after casting either Mox on T1. You'll always have the same number of lands and non-land cards left. Always. Unless you're misclassifying the Chrome Mox as a spell during deck construction, in which case you're actually using an extra overall mana source; the same effect can be achieved with Mox Diamond by counting it as a spell and cutting an additional spell card for another land.
In a situation where you want 17 lands, the composition looks like this:
22 Spells
Mox Diamond
17 Lands
23 Spells
Chrome Mox
16 Lands
Always.
If you' count Chrome Mox as a spell, you're actually using 18 "lands" and the same effect can be achieved by Mox Diamond, so that situation would look like this:
22 Spells
Chrome Mox
17 Land
21 Spells
Mox Diamond
18 Lands
..........
At the deckbuilding level, if you're building correctly, there's no fundamental difference in the total number of mana sources and spell slots. So in any case where you'd actually cast either spell, the rest of the hand would have the same number of spell cards and land cards left over. Always.
Quote from Hankroyd »
For me there is no such thing as spell slot and land slot ... only balanced mana base and unbalanced mana base. Maybe it's because of that I prefer Chrome over Diamond ...
Lol... what? You can't just ignore this aspect of deckbuilding. "Land slot" doesn't refer to cards like Maze of Ith. It's your free mana sources. Your cards that function as basic land equivalents. Every deck determines how many of these slots it needs during deck construction. And when you do, Chrome Mox is classified as one of them. And Mox Diamond isn't. You can't just say "well I misplay Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond and because of that, Chrome Mox is better for me." You're running it as a Spell. Which means the decks you're using it in are actually using one extra mana source. Which also means that decks you're playing Mox Diamond in probably need an extra mana-producing land in them. Which would explain why you don't like the card more. You're playing them incorrectly, and ignoring a critical aspect of proper deckbuilding.
If you want to play by your own rules of deckbuilding, your own definitions of what constitutes a mana source, and your own opinion of what the correct/incorrect ways to balance mana sources vs spells, you can. But if you don't do it the same way that every other player in the game does, you can't really argue against the theory.
If you're counting Chrome Mox as a mana source (which you should be) and Mox Diamond as a spell (which you should be) than after either one is played on T1, you'll have the same spell/mana source ratio left, but the Mox Diamond will be better in almost every single way.
YOU are counting Chrome Mox as a spell sometimes, which means those decks are running more mana sources than they should be. Because YOU do this, there's going to be a variety in how it plays out for you. You could get the same result by cutting a spell for Mox Diamond and playing an extra mana source in the same deck, but you refuse to acknowledge that it's your deckbuilding that's creating the difference in play. If you're counting both Moxen as spells during deck construction, they're going to play differently for you than they will for everyone that's using them correctly. Which accounts for your varied results.
Quote from Hankroyd »
I think the only way to see which one would be better, would be to build two identical deck, one with Mox Diamond the other with Chrome Mox. Play a thousand games with those decks and see which one wins more.
You can't just do this. They don't compete for the same slot during deck construction. Period.
Deck A would have:
22 Spells
Mox Diamond
17 Land
and Deck B would have
23 Spells
Chrome Mox
16 Land
If YOU are doing anything other than those two options, YOU are influencing the performance of the cards beyond how they should properly be played. So YOUR opinion is only relevant to other players that are also mis-categorizing the cards when the decks are being built.
Quote from Hankroyd »
To be so arrogant sure of you, working the way you build your deck must be relatively efficient. And since it is the same for me, at least it proves we both are doing something right.
No, it just means that you're playing the proper amount of mana sources some of the time. If you should be using 18 mana sources one of the times you count Chrome Mox as a "spell" and have 17 lands next to it, no wonder it's performing well. You're accidentally using it correctly in those cases.
Quote from Hankroyd »
However I think you take for granted some theories that I don't.
I take those theories for granted because it's the correct way to play the card.
Quote from Hankroyd »
But in the end, it's just terminology.
No, it's really not. In the end, it's having the correct ratio of cards that function as spells and cards that function as mana sources. There's a right and wrong ratio. The typical recommended practice is 23/17 (sometimes 18-19 for control and 15-16 for aggro, but in general). Cards like Island take up a slot in the 17 section. Cards like Coalition Relic take up a slot in the 23 section. That's the ratio of spells/lands, in the reference of deckbuilding for limited. Chrome Mox SHOULD be classified in the second category in limited, if you're playing it correctly. If you classify it as a spell during construction, you're actually using one more free on-color mana source than you should be, so your ratio would be 22/18, when you really want 23/17. It DOES make a difference. It's NOT just terminology. There's a correct spell/land ratio for any given deck, and if you count Diamond as a land or Chrome as a Spell, you're not reaching it.
Quote from Hankroyd »
Yes I would and NO, I DON'T Make Mistake.
If you're counting Chrome Mox as anything other than a mana source that deducts from your total number of mana sources you calculate when deckbuilding, you probably are. Sorry to say.
Quote from Hankroyd »
For me, it just doesn't work that way.
Well, for everyone else, it does. So you can do your own thing if you want, but the reason why the card performs different for you than it does for other players is because you're playing it differently than everyone else does.
That's fine if you want to classify it as a spell, but you're playing it wrong. Some people play by their own set of rules and their own set of definitions when they play/discuss Magic, but all it does is complicate and convolute discussions with folks that have an established understanding that's different than yours. This is one of those cases.
Quote from Hankroyd »
Moxen (Beta or Chrome) are polyvalent they can go to my 'Land' or my 'X'
Off-color beta, sometimes. Because they don't produce colors that are found in your deck, they can occasionally count as a spell because you can't simply replace a basic with it. Chrome Mox doesn't work that way, because it's not taking away from your total spell count (when you classify it correctly that is) and it taps for mana that can be used by your deck. Cutting a Forest for a Chrome Mox in your green deck leaves you with the same spell/land ratio you want in your deck. If you count it as a spell, your actually adding +1 "land" to the deck that wants less mana sources than it has now. Giving you objectively less gas and more land in your opening hand than you should have every time you draw the Chrome Mox.
Quote from Hankroyd »
Nope
Spell, Spell, Spell Spell, Mox Diamond, Land, Land
and
Spell, Spell, Spell Spell, Chrome Mox, Land, Land
doesn't lead to the same result for example.
But this could only happen to YOU because everybody else counts the Chrome Mox as a land during deck construction. So for me, that same situation would be:
Spell, Spell, Spell, Mox Diamond, Land, Land, Land
Spell, Spell, Spell, Spell, Chrome Mox, Land, Land
EVERY TIME because ...Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond don't compete for the same slot during deck construction.
..........
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I'm with wtwlf123 on the above post almost word for word. O.o\
Just throwing in my support for good deck construction skills.
Thank GOD. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.
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Gladly. I prefer to just not say anything else at all. Everything that's needed to be said has been said. About 25 times. I'll happily bow out of this one.
That's a good call Rascals, no reason to waste any more time either.
Too much hate on this thread yeah, which is unnecessary. We all have different preferences.
I vote Chrome Mox, definitely. I have 4 of each (Diamond and Chrome) and 3 Mox Opal. I play White Weenie and done the Tax/Rack deck. Mox Diamond has great synergy yes, but Mox Diamond is too risky. Great for casual play, but in a serious match, getting a land a Diamond on your 1st mulligan is pure terror. Do you risk the 2nd? 5 cards only, if you get a Diamond on it, you're as good as dead.
Mox Diamond, specially with Land Tax (and other recovery / mana-getters cards) works great. But MtG matches are heavily based on your opening hand, and the Diamond is too "fragile", too "delicate" in this aspect, specially accounting mulligans. (really, 5 cards one being Mox Diamond is a dead game already).
Nowadays I just swap 4 plains for 4 Ancient Den and use 2 Mox Opal (and 3 Chrome Mox). Yeah they are Legendary but it doesn't give you any card disadvantage. Say what you will, I prefer this as it's less risky.
Don't get me wrong, Mox Diamond is a very powerful card, but you have to build a deck all around it to make it shine, otherwise it just screws up mana production too easily.
Hello Gabriel.Angelfire. Welcome to the cube forum.
I think I understand your points about Mox Diamond in a constructed deck (and agree). In a singleton format like cube, however, I don't think it has such a negative effect on your opening hand/mulligans.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I like chrome mox and it's in no danger of leaving my cube any time soon. It's not a very high pick because I run a powered cube. But it certainly has its moments.
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Surely it depends on the deck? I like Mox D best in an aggro deck where it will fix my mana and give me an early boost, but I'm not using it to ramp into higher cost spells and I can keep gas in my hand. In a ramping or control deck the C Mox gains some strength, as I can probably continue to play land for longer.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
In my cube draft last week, my opponent played chrome mox turn one into a Dark Confidant. Needless to say, I lost that game. He only took 1 damage the whole game from Bob.
Played it in my 450 for many months along side Mox Diamond. My group disliked both and I haven't had fond memories of either. For us the card disadvantage was too much each time. I feel like if aggro keeps on landing sweet cube inclusions they'll wreck and I'll add them then.
With Chrome Mox, you don't have this kind of problem, since it will "always" be able to increase the amount of mana you have access to while not taking up a spell slot during deck construction.
Each card is better depending on which deck you plays, but Chrome Mox gets the nod for being more flexible. These cards play such different roles across each archetype, that I'm not even sure it's fair to compare the two. This is also why I dislike 90% of the posts in the 'This or That' thread. I know I'm a broken record when I say this, but context is everything.
I would never pick or play this card over Mox Diamond in the cube. Assuming that A) Diamond takes up a spell during construction, B) Chrome takes up a land during construction and C) you're going to play the card ...Mox Diamond is damn near strictly better in every case. The only cases where Chrome is better are cases where you either don't cast it or don't imprint something on it. All the logic and math behind the reasons why are on P1 of this topic.
I would never pick or play this card over Mox Diamond in the cube. Assuming that A) Diamond takes up a spell during construction, B) Chrome takes up a land during construction and C) you're going to play the card ...Mox Diamond is damn near strictly better in every case. The only cases where Chrome is better are cases where you either don't cast it or don't imprint something on it. All the logic and math behind the reasons why are on P1 of this topic.
That's fine that you personally will not pick Chrome Mox over Mox Diamond, but saying that either one is strictly better than the other is ridiculous. They're completely different cards and play completely different roles in deck construction, draft, and play.
That's fine that you personally will not pick Chrome Mox over Mox Diamond, but saying that either one is strictly better than the other is ridiculous. They're completely different cards and play completely different roles in deck construction, draft, and play.
I've been trying to figure out cases where Chrome is better, and other than the two examples I cited (no imprint or not casting it), I can't find any. Could you explain it to me? I really want to learn why.
General thoughts about this? Staple? I have a copy, and I'm thinking that it belongs to my cube
Verdict: Not for every playgroup, but pretty good and definitely worth testing at least.
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
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Funny, because this can't really be the case.
If you play the two cards correctly, Mox Diamond is almost strictly better than Chrome Mox. Chrome Mox takes up a land slot. Mox Diamond takes up a spell slot. Because of that balance, neither will net you more gas or more mana sources than the other in any given hypothetical.
So, in any time you'd have one or the other, the hands would have to look like this:
Spell
Spell
Spell
Mox Diamond
Land
Land
Land
OR
Spell
Spell
Spell
Spell
Chrome Mox
Land
Land
(because the Chrome Mox would've hypothetically replaced the 3rd land in the Mox Diamond opener, and the Diamond would've hypothetically replaced the 4th spell slot in the Chrome opener)
So, when you're done playing the Mox on T1, your hands will be identical.
Either situation nets you the same amount of gas and the same number of mana sources. Both give you 2 mana on T1, and cap you at 3 total mana sources. The differences, are as follows:
~Mox Diamond always fixes your mana. Regardless of what card you pitch to it, it gives you all 5 colors of mana every time.
~Mox Diamond replaced the worst card in your deck, not the worst card in your hand.
~The card pitched by Mox Diamond can be recovered; the card lost to Chrome Mox is gone forever.
So, in every case, Mox Diamond is better.
One of the only advantages the Chrome Mox has is in situations where you don't cast it. You can opt to keep a 2-land hand with 4 gas spells and never use the Chrome Mox. With the Mox Diamond, you have 1 more land, but one less gas spell if it's never played. That's the only conceivable situation in the cube where Chrome Mox has more value, and that's not very good (and it's not even always better in those situations, either). The only time it's better than Mox Diamond is when you opt NOT to play it.
..........
tl;dr = Mox Diamond is better than Chrome Mox in almost every situation where you would actually cast one of the two.
..........
Super Edit:
There are two other corner cases I came up with where the Chrome Mox could be the superior card: A) You want to cast it without imprinting a card on it (before a Tezz 1 ultimate, with Tezz 2 as a 5/5 or as a free Tinker target) and B) You have a Demonic Turor, Vampiric Turor or Imperial Seal in your deck (you have one less potential non-land target for those cards if you're running Diamond instead). But even with those cases calculated for, I'm more than comfortable calling Mox Diamond damn-near strictly better in the cube.
Don't get me wrong, I like Chrome Mox just fine. But it's simply no Mox Diamond as far as cube quality is concerned. Constructed is a different animal altogether.
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So what do we mean by "this card takes a land slot"? I think we mean the following: It can be played with no mana investment at all, and having it in your hand means one more mana per turn as opposed to if you didn't. Lands (Maze of Ith aside) satisfy this condition, Kitchen Finks doesn't. This is important because it answers the question "how much mana will I have available ingame?", which is very crucial in deck construction. If you're a control deck, you need to have many cards that satisfy these condition in order to play your spells, an aggro deck can eschew a few land slots for more business.
Beta Moxen are functionally identical to lands (even better). So your example deck draws mana-spell distributions as if it contained 19 lands, thus I think we should speak of nineteen land slots. Mind Stone is not functionally identical to lands: You need to invest two mana first, meaning that a hand of two land, Mind Stone, spells is a lot different from three land, spells. (compare to moxen: two land, moxen, spells is pretty much the same as three land, spells)
So, beta moxen out of the way, how about the two in question? Mox Diamond doesn't mean you have more mana than if you didn't have Mox (compare two land, Mox, spells, which equals two mana, to three land, spells, which equals three mana), so it's not functionally identical to a land, much more to a zero-mana non-card draw Explore. It accelerates, but it doesn't help you top out at one more mana. Chrome Mox, however, does let you top out at one more mana (two lands, Chrome Mox, spells is three mana, two lands, spells is two, three lands, spells is three, so pretty much identical to the first), so it is justified in a land slot.
That's also why Maze of Ith is not a land: It doesn't produce any mana at all (like Kitchen Finks), so it doesn't affect at how much mana you top out, so it doesn't occupy a land slot. So by "play seventeen land, Chrome Mox and the beta moxen count as lands", we mean "you should play seventeen cards that contribute to letting you top out at more mana". That's by the way why karoo lands are so good: In a way, they are two lands in one, meaning you practically have one more card. Tempo aside, two land, Karoo, four spells is one more spell than four land, three spells, but both top at four mana.
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
Who's eating crow?
Lets say you determine that you want to build a deck with 17 mana sources. Are you telling me that you'd count Chrome Mox as a spell and run it in addition to 17 lands in a deck you've already decided needs 17 mana sources in it?
No you wouldn't, unless you're making a mistake when deckbuilding. You can't determine that the proper number of mana sources is 17 and then run 18 total mana sources and hold it against Mox Diamond. Any deck that runs either would have 1 more land and 1 less spell, the spell being replaced with the Diamond and the Chrome being replaced with a land.
It doesn't work that way. In any deck that would have Chrome Mox in their opener, you wouldn't have Mox Diamond in there instead. You'd have +1 land and one of the spells would be a Mox Diamond. And vice versa, one of the lands would be the Chrome Mox in a Diamond opener and you'd have an extra spell.
In any conceivable hypothetical, your hand is identical after casting either Mox on T1. You'll always have the same number of lands and non-land cards left. Always. Unless you're misclassifying the Chrome Mox as a spell during deck construction, in which case you're actually using an extra overall mana source; the same effect can be achieved with Mox Diamond by counting it as a spell and cutting an additional spell card for another land.
In a situation where you want 17 lands, the composition looks like this:
22 Spells
Mox Diamond
17 Lands
23 Spells
Chrome Mox
16 Lands
Always.
If you' count Chrome Mox as a spell, you're actually using 18 "lands" and the same effect can be achieved by Mox Diamond, so that situation would look like this:
22 Spells
Chrome Mox
17 Land
21 Spells
Mox Diamond
18 Lands
..........
At the deckbuilding level, if you're building correctly, there's no fundamental difference in the total number of mana sources and spell slots. So in any case where you'd actually cast either spell, the rest of the hand would have the same number of spell cards and land cards left over. Always.
Lol... what? You can't just ignore this aspect of deckbuilding. "Land slot" doesn't refer to cards like Maze of Ith. It's your free mana sources. Your cards that function as basic land equivalents. Every deck determines how many of these slots it needs during deck construction. And when you do, Chrome Mox is classified as one of them. And Mox Diamond isn't. You can't just say "well I misplay Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond and because of that, Chrome Mox is better for me." You're running it as a Spell. Which means the decks you're using it in are actually using one extra mana source. Which also means that decks you're playing Mox Diamond in probably need an extra mana-producing land in them. Which would explain why you don't like the card more. You're playing them incorrectly, and ignoring a critical aspect of proper deckbuilding.
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If you want to play by your own rules of deckbuilding, your own definitions of what constitutes a mana source, and your own opinion of what the correct/incorrect ways to balance mana sources vs spells, you can. But if you don't do it the same way that every other player in the game does, you can't really argue against the theory.
If you're counting Chrome Mox as a mana source (which you should be) and Mox Diamond as a spell (which you should be) than after either one is played on T1, you'll have the same spell/mana source ratio left, but the Mox Diamond will be better in almost every single way.
YOU are counting Chrome Mox as a spell sometimes, which means those decks are running more mana sources than they should be. Because YOU do this, there's going to be a variety in how it plays out for you. You could get the same result by cutting a spell for Mox Diamond and playing an extra mana source in the same deck, but you refuse to acknowledge that it's your deckbuilding that's creating the difference in play. If you're counting both Moxen as spells during deck construction, they're going to play differently for you than they will for everyone that's using them correctly. Which accounts for your varied results.
You can't just do this. They don't compete for the same slot during deck construction. Period.
Deck A would have:
22 Spells
Mox Diamond
17 Land
and Deck B would have
23 Spells
Chrome Mox
16 Land
If YOU are doing anything other than those two options, YOU are influencing the performance of the cards beyond how they should properly be played. So YOUR opinion is only relevant to other players that are also mis-categorizing the cards when the decks are being built.
No, it just means that you're playing the proper amount of mana sources some of the time. If you should be using 18 mana sources one of the times you count Chrome Mox as a "spell" and have 17 lands next to it, no wonder it's performing well. You're accidentally using it correctly in those cases.
I take those theories for granted because it's the correct way to play the card.
No, it's really not. In the end, it's having the correct ratio of cards that function as spells and cards that function as mana sources. There's a right and wrong ratio. The typical recommended practice is 23/17 (sometimes 18-19 for control and 15-16 for aggro, but in general). Cards like Island take up a slot in the 17 section. Cards like Coalition Relic take up a slot in the 23 section. That's the ratio of spells/lands, in the reference of deckbuilding for limited. Chrome Mox SHOULD be classified in the second category in limited, if you're playing it correctly. If you classify it as a spell during construction, you're actually using one more free on-color mana source than you should be, so your ratio would be 22/18, when you really want 23/17. It DOES make a difference. It's NOT just terminology. There's a correct spell/land ratio for any given deck, and if you count Diamond as a land or Chrome as a Spell, you're not reaching it.
If you're counting Chrome Mox as anything other than a mana source that deducts from your total number of mana sources you calculate when deckbuilding, you probably are. Sorry to say.
Well, for everyone else, it does. So you can do your own thing if you want, but the reason why the card performs different for you than it does for other players is because you're playing it differently than everyone else does.
That's fine if you want to classify it as a spell, but you're playing it wrong. Some people play by their own set of rules and their own set of definitions when they play/discuss Magic, but all it does is complicate and convolute discussions with folks that have an established understanding that's different than yours. This is one of those cases.
Off-color beta, sometimes. Because they don't produce colors that are found in your deck, they can occasionally count as a spell because you can't simply replace a basic with it. Chrome Mox doesn't work that way, because it's not taking away from your total spell count (when you classify it correctly that is) and it taps for mana that can be used by your deck. Cutting a Forest for a Chrome Mox in your green deck leaves you with the same spell/land ratio you want in your deck. If you count it as a spell, your actually adding +1 "land" to the deck that wants less mana sources than it has now. Giving you objectively less gas and more land in your opening hand than you should have every time you draw the Chrome Mox.
But this could only happen to YOU because everybody else counts the Chrome Mox as a land during deck construction. So for me, that same situation would be:
Spell, Spell, Spell, Mox Diamond, Land, Land, Land
Spell, Spell, Spell, Spell, Chrome Mox, Land, Land
EVERY TIME because ...Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond don't compete for the same slot during deck construction.
..........
Thank GOD. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.
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That's a good call Rascals, no reason to waste any more time either.
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I vote Chrome Mox, definitely. I have 4 of each (Diamond and Chrome) and 3 Mox Opal. I play White Weenie and done the Tax/Rack deck. Mox Diamond has great synergy yes, but Mox Diamond is too risky. Great for casual play, but in a serious match, getting a land a Diamond on your 1st mulligan is pure terror. Do you risk the 2nd? 5 cards only, if you get a Diamond on it, you're as good as dead.
Mox Diamond, specially with Land Tax (and other recovery / mana-getters cards) works great. But MtG matches are heavily based on your opening hand, and the Diamond is too "fragile", too "delicate" in this aspect, specially accounting mulligans. (really, 5 cards one being Mox Diamond is a dead game already).
Nowadays I just swap 4 plains for 4 Ancient Den and use 2 Mox Opal (and 3 Chrome Mox). Yeah they are Legendary but it doesn't give you any card disadvantage. Say what you will, I prefer this as it's less risky.
Don't get me wrong, Mox Diamond is a very powerful card, but you have to build a deck all around it to make it shine, otherwise it just screws up mana production too easily.
I think I understand your points about Mox Diamond in a constructed deck (and agree). In a singleton format like cube, however, I don't think it has such a negative effect on your opening hand/mulligans.
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I've been trying to figure out cases where Chrome is better, and other than the two examples I cited (no imprint or not casting it), I can't find any. Could you explain it to me? I really want to learn why.
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