This would be my first deck post, but my fourth EDH project. Saw this guy on the Planechase 2012 list and wanted to have a go. Red and green is, imo, not as near as easy to pull off as green and white, but I think this is a tolerable list. Though not an explicit token commander, if you have a haste, protection, and some tokens out, you're knockin' someone to their knees. Immediately. At least that's what I'm trying to get across. Been kinda busy all day, hoping to get some feedback before I use it. Without further ado!
To start things off I think you have far too few token generators in the deck, and the ones you do have aren't terribly efficient. I also think you have too many non-creature spells in the deck. As Thromok gets bigger no matter what he gobbles. So if you can replace a spell with a creature, Thromok will be happier.
Some cuts:
Boartusk Liege: Works best with Green AND Red creatures, and as such only helps a few of your token generators and your general. But only gives them +2/+2 and is easily removed. I would cut him.
Chancellor of the Forge: Seems like a win con if you have creatures in play, or useless otherwise. Win more card imo.
Dragonmaster Outcast: Only costs 1, so can be cheap and get you a few tokens. But he doesn't generate many tokens quickly, and as such I don't think he's worth the spot.
Predator Dragon: Can certainly be an alternate win con. I like him, but there may be other options.
Predator Ooze: Why? I don't see any synergy.
Seedborn Muse: You have no mana dumps, I don't see why she would be helpful.
Sekki: A wrath kills him, I don't think he's very good.
Eldrazi Monument: You don't have enough token generation at this point for this to be valuable.
Elixer of Immortality: I guess, but why?
Gaea's Anthem: Anthem effects aren't needed IMO. Run craterhoof behemoth instead, or any overrun and get the job done in one go.
Druid's Repository: Ramp is typically better
Orcish Oriflamme, Spidersilk Armor: The armor I could maybe see if you encounter a lot of flyers. The other I don't think is very good.
Predatory Advantage: People play creatures pretty frequently in EDH. I don't think this is good enough.
Quest for Renewal: you shouldn't ahve problems making blockers in a token deck.
Wreak Havoc or Acidic Slime and Indrik Stomphowler? They can be countered, but your opponents don't know what's getting blown up until they resolve. At that point, barring less than a handful of cards you can't stop it. Can also block, be used as skullclamp fodder, or eaten by your general.
Some great cards here: Fierce Empath is a creature tutor that's a creature. Good!
Excellent information! I'm much more accustom to the white spectrum of tokens(make many, make big) more than red(make too many, overrun) and I'm not too familiar with the creatures that would replace my spells, so thanks for that.
I'm going to make a few obvious edits from what you said and see how it goes from there.
Out:
Boartusk Liege
Predator Ooze
Gaea's Anthem
Predatory Advantage
Quest for Renewal
Elixir of Immortality
In:
I think Both Brawn and Anger work very well with all of my Devour. Plus instant win if I pop Thromak high enough with both of them.
Kind of a toss-up between Skullmulcher and Greater Good. I don't like the idea of a draw only card in this deck. So probably Skull.
Genesis Wave, of course. Just about anything that lands would most likely pay for the mana cost.
Night Soil. I'll see how it works.
Also made the "some swaps," great advice.
@ASpacemanIam, I don't particularly enjoy two card infi combos. It's cool and all, but just not my cup o' tea.
It says that Thromok is "not legal in any format" I can't imagine this as being anything other than an oversight, but it might be something that could be leveled against you.
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I got a foil 'Walker! A FOIL 'WALKER! Oh, it's just Tibalt... *Rrrip*
It says that Thromok is "not legal in any format" I can't imagine this as being anything other than an oversight, but it might be something that could be leveled against you.
It's because he is a Planechase-specific card. He wasn't released in any other format. He's really not a big enough problem for people to not be okay with him, I think. He comes with no protection or ability other than being able to one shot someone. When the board is set up correctly. I didn't notice that until now though, so thanks for the heads up. The same things applies to my Dragonlair Spider and every other card on our Planechase 2012 spoiler.
It says that Thromok is "not legal in any format" I can't imagine this as being anything other than an oversight, but it might be something that could be leveled against you.
magiccards.info says that about all of the cards released in planechase. They haven't gotten around to updating it i'm guessing, similar to how they haven't gotten around to updating that worldgorger dragon is legal in commander again. Don't trust that site in regards to legality, EDH is an eternal format with the only exclusions being those that are on the banlist. You can also check gatherer and see that the card is legal in commander.
I had some ideas about other things for Thromok to eat, and this is what I came up with.
You want guys that get some kind of value on the way in or out, so as to not get valued-out if Thromok doesn't get it done after you feed him.
Undying / Persist guys: Vorapede, Hound of Grizzlebrand. Originally I had Young Wolf and Strangleroot Geist but they aren't great before or after getting killed. These two hit pretty hard. You've already got Woodfall Primus, and the other Persist guys seem underwhelming (but Thunderbluss might be sweet with Warstorm Surge).
Other things: Growth Spasm is the perfect 3-mana ramp spell, Pandemonium is a good second copy of Warstorm Surge (it works for everyone, but you'll be better placed to make it hurt), Manic Vandal and Oxidda Scrapmelter instead of shatter effects, Sprout Swarm gets way out of control very quickly, and this is a place I feel Moldgraf Monstrosity can shine. Also you can't live the dream of making a huge Thromok, killing someone with Warstorm Surge trigger, attacking with haste to get someone else, then using Fling to win the game if you don't have Fling in your deck. Just sayin'!
Otherwise, I like the angle of going light on artifacts and non-basic lands, then making sure others don't get to abuse them too much. RG gives you both Shatterstorm and Creeping Corrosion, and potential friendship destroyers in Blood Moon and Ruination (lets get it!) so live up to your role as the Gruul mage and get smashing.
Hoboking, I've been looking at making a Thromok deck, and have it posted here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=443373
We should collaborate! I think Thromok could be a very fun commander, but definitely for the casual side; not for truly competetive play. I took quite a few of nurse.jason's suggestions. Take a look! I'd like to get your feedback.
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1 Thromok the Insatiable
Creatures:
1 Acidic Slime
1 Anger
1 Ant Queen
1 Brawn
1 Chancellor of the Forge
1 Dragon Broodmother
1 Dragonlair Spider
1 Dragonmaster Outcast
1 Genesis
1 Hornet Queen
1 Mycoloth
1 Predator Dragon
1 Rampaging Baloths
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Sekki, Seasons' Guide
1 Skullmulcher
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Symbiotic Wurm
1 Ulasht, the Hate Seed
1 Urabrask the Hidden
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Wood Elves
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Wort, the Raidmother
1 Yavimaya Elder
Artifacts/Enchantments:
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Expedition Map
1 Gruul War Plow
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mimic Vat
1 Sol Ring
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Doubling Season
1 Druids' Repository
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Leyline of Vitality
1 Mana Reflection
1 Night Soil
1 Parallel Lives
1 Rage Reflection
1 Retaliation
1 Spidersilk Armor
1 Sylvan Library
1 Verdant Embrace
Other Spells:
1 Artifact Mutation
1 Beast Within
1 Chord of Calling
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Decimate
1 Genesis Wave
1 Hull Breach
1 Primal Command
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Three Visits
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Sarkhan Vol
12 Forest
7 Mountain
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Fungal Reaches
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Gruul Turf
1 Homeward Path
1 Kher Keep
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Raging Ravine
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Stomping Ground
1 Strip Mine
1 Taiga
1 Vesuva
1 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Yavimaya Hollow
This is by no means a finished product. Mainly just goodstuff throw together until I can get some playtime in and some feedback. Thanks~
Some cuts:
Boartusk Liege: Works best with Green AND Red creatures, and as such only helps a few of your token generators and your general. But only gives them +2/+2 and is easily removed. I would cut him.
Chancellor of the Forge: Seems like a win con if you have creatures in play, or useless otherwise. Win more card imo.
Dragonmaster Outcast: Only costs 1, so can be cheap and get you a few tokens. But he doesn't generate many tokens quickly, and as such I don't think he's worth the spot.
Predator Dragon: Can certainly be an alternate win con. I like him, but there may be other options.
Predator Ooze: Why? I don't see any synergy.
Seedborn Muse: You have no mana dumps, I don't see why she would be helpful.
Sekki: A wrath kills him, I don't think he's very good.
Eldrazi Monument: You don't have enough token generation at this point for this to be valuable.
Elixer of Immortality: I guess, but why?
Gaea's Anthem: Anthem effects aren't needed IMO. Run craterhoof behemoth instead, or any overrun and get the job done in one go.
Druid's Repository: Ramp is typically better
Orcish Oriflamme, Spidersilk Armor: The armor I could maybe see if you encounter a lot of flyers. The other I don't think is very good.
Predatory Advantage: People play creatures pretty frequently in EDH. I don't think this is good enough.
Quest for Renewal: you shouldn't ahve problems making blockers in a token deck.
Some swaps:
Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Skyshroud Claim: Are all super efficient and awesome spells, but they don't have any synergy. Viridian Shaman, Wood Elves, Seedguide Ash, Yavimaya Dryad, Solemn Simulacrum, Farhaven Elf, Oracle of Mul Daya are all creature versions that ramp and then can be eaten by your general.
Wreak Havoc or Acidic Slime and Indrik Stomphowler? They can be countered, but your opponents don't know what's getting blown up until they resolve. At that point, barring less than a handful of cards you can't stop it. Can also block, be used as skullclamp fodder, or eaten by your general.
Some great cards here:
Fierce Empath is a creature tutor that's a creature. Good!
Eternal Witness is a restock that's a creature. Great!
Craterhoof Behemoth is an alternate win con. Great!
Warstorm Surge kills someone if thromok comes in big enough. Amazing!
Fling, Soul's Fire, Grab the Reins, etc. kills someone if he's big enough. Amazing!
Brawn / Anger can be devoured, and then give him an awesome ability. Amazing!
Vithian Renegades: Control + Creature. Tasty!
Terastadon: See above!
Siege-Gang Commander gives 4 nommable targets for 5. Efficiency!
Ant Queen is efficient token generation. This is where seedborn muse is helpful.
Primeval Titan is never bad!
Mycoloth may be risky, but can give you lots of gentlemen.
Deranged Hermit gives 5 devourable targets for 5. Super efficient! Or 4 if you don't pay the echo
Avenger of Zendikar: um hello?
Skullmuncher, Harmonize, Regal Force, Greater Good, Momentous Fall, Soul's Majesty: Card draw is good, right?
Hull breach: not a creature, but efficient
Genesis Wave: If most of your cards are permanents (which they should be) this gets all the more awesome!
Night Soil: Criminally underused! token generation and graveyard control.
Verdant Embrace: A cheaper verdant force!
Beastmaster AScension: Another alternate win con.
(Basically explained here: http://essentialmagic.com/Combos/CommentsAndRatings.asp?ID=60023)
I'm going to make a few obvious edits from what you said and see how it goes from there.
Out:
Boartusk Liege
Predator Ooze
Gaea's Anthem
Predatory Advantage
Quest for Renewal
Elixir of Immortality
In:
I think Both Brawn and Anger work very well with all of my Devour. Plus instant win if I pop Thromak high enough with both of them.
Kind of a toss-up between Skullmulcher and Greater Good. I don't like the idea of a draw only card in this deck. So probably Skull.
Genesis Wave, of course. Just about anything that lands would most likely pay for the mana cost.
Night Soil. I'll see how it works.
Also made the "some swaps," great advice.
@ASpacemanIam, I don't particularly enjoy two card infi combos. It's cool and all, but just not my cup o' tea.
It's because he is a Planechase-specific card. He wasn't released in any other format. He's really not a big enough problem for people to not be okay with him, I think. He comes with no protection or ability other than being able to one shot someone. When the board is set up correctly. I didn't notice that until now though, so thanks for the heads up. The same things applies to my Dragonlair Spider and every other card on our Planechase 2012 spoiler.
magiccards.info says that about all of the cards released in planechase. They haven't gotten around to updating it i'm guessing, similar to how they haven't gotten around to updating that worldgorger dragon is legal in commander again. Don't trust that site in regards to legality, EDH is an eternal format with the only exclusions being those that are on the banlist. You can also check gatherer and see that the card is legal in commander.
You want guys that get some kind of value on the way in or out, so as to not get valued-out if Thromok doesn't get it done after you feed him.
Undying / Persist guys: Vorapede, Hound of Grizzlebrand. Originally I had Young Wolf and Strangleroot Geist but they aren't great before or after getting killed. These two hit pretty hard. You've already got Woodfall Primus, and the other Persist guys seem underwhelming (but Thunderbluss might be sweet with Warstorm Surge).
Cheap cantrip / land search creatures: Wall of Blossoms, Sylvan Ranger, Yavimaya Dryad, Wood Elves, Pilgrim's Eye, Elvish Visionary. The land finding guys might not be as explosive or efficient as Kodama's Reach and Cultivate but ultimately feed Thromok, so they fit your game plan more.
Token making dudes: Jade Mage and Imperious Perfect. I do have a personal love of Imperious Perfect so colour me biased, but it seems pretty good.
Other things: Growth Spasm is the perfect 3-mana ramp spell, Pandemonium is a good second copy of Warstorm Surge (it works for everyone, but you'll be better placed to make it hurt), Manic Vandal and Oxidda Scrapmelter instead of shatter effects, Sprout Swarm gets way out of control very quickly, and this is a place I feel Moldgraf Monstrosity can shine. Also you can't live the dream of making a huge Thromok, killing someone with Warstorm Surge trigger, attacking with haste to get someone else, then using Fling to win the game if you don't have Fling in your deck. Just sayin'!
Otherwise, I like the angle of going light on artifacts and non-basic lands, then making sure others don't get to abuse them too much. RG gives you both Shatterstorm and Creeping Corrosion, and potential friendship destroyers in Blood Moon and Ruination (lets get it!) so live up to your role as the Gruul mage and get smashing.
Let us know what you end up doing with this!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=443373
We should collaborate! I think Thromok could be a very fun commander, but definitely for the casual side; not for truly competetive play. I took quite a few of nurse.jason's suggestions. Take a look! I'd like to get your feedback.