MTG Salvation

I don't know whether this will actually work or not. There's a very real likelihood that it will never actually start churning out Goblins at an appreciable rate, given that there aren't many non-Krenko Goblins in the deck. So this is very much a rough draft.

Well, first off...where is siege-gang commander? I really think we're missing some cool token stuff here. More on this later, when my brain functions at a real pace.

Also, I'll test this deck on Cockatrice later. I'm really interested by it =)

Ever since Krenko's been spoiled, I've been mulling over deck ideas. The main problem I can see is red's severe lack of CA; a well pointed boardwipe devastates this deck, and while most aggro strategies fold to a well-timed wipe, mono-red aggro pretty much has it the worst with no backup drawing colors. To alleviate that, it will need: Wheel of Fortune, Reforge the Soul, Chandra Ablaze, Mind's Eye, that new Rod of Nin, and even Dragon Mage (haste really helps there). Sensation Gorger is also super sweet tech here.

Also, I see a lack of creatures/goblin producers like the aforementioned Siege-gang Commander. Here are a bunch of other great Goblin producers: Beetleback Chief, Chancellor of the Forge, Empty the Warrens, Goblin Assault, Goblin Marshal, Goblin Offensive, Mogg Infestation (also a board wipe), Mogg War Marshal, and Warbreak Trumpeteer.

Also, I feel like there's too many enchantments here that slow the gameplan down a lot. This type of deck needs to be a balls-to-the-wall type of deck, and most of the enchantments can be cut save for the really good ones. Also, with a sac outlet, Thornbite Staff combos well the general and Kiki-Jiki.

I like this general a lot though and can't wait to make a decklist.

Would Moggcatcher be any good here?

Ok viper, I feel like I should chime in here as I have been playing my mono red with a heavy goblin influence for a bit now with similar prinicpals as I run a somewhat large goblin pakcage myself.

First of all, Goblin War Strike, Burn at the Stake, Battle Hymn, Mob Justice, and Roar of the Crowd all seem like very narrow winmore cards. If you are already dumping tons of creatures into play then thats cool but some of these are sorcery effects or very expensive. I would say perhaps trim back on these to the cheap instant speed options and scrap the rest. You might get better results also from something like Furystoke Giant where he can do 2 dmg per guy you have and triggers twice for you. The downside here being that unless you have haste your new guys cant do it but the upside being that you can split the damage up a lot easier so you can kill a few targets and then nail someone to the face.

I have to ask it... where is Warp World, Marton Stromgald, and Tears of Rage??? These are by far some of the biggest game enders for a red token deck. Savage Beating is good stuff but even then it takes 10 tokens unblocked to kill a player on its own. If instead you had 10 tokens and did a Tears of Rage you could kill 3 opponents potentially. I think it gives a lot better damage output capability especially for a swarm deck.

It looks like you might have some serious issues with card draw as well. I think that could be brought up quite a bit as red just sort of curles into a ball and dies in the lategame if you dont have the draw outlets. I would also love to see some sort of mana outlet for some of the big mana effects you seem to have in here. Having something like Commit Storm replace one of the above effects that I mentioned might be good.

Quote from shneakyshneaky

Sensation Gorger is also super sweet tech here.

I've been tuning a Krenko list and Sensation Gorger isn't nearly as good as you would think. There aren't really enough goblins to jam into the deck to make him trigger reliably. If you're fine with a ~20% chance to trigger kinship then run him by all means. I love Sensation Gorger too but he just doesn't seem to make the cut.

Sensation Forget didn't make it into my list either due to the low percentage it has to proc which is disheartening.

I'll take your guys' word on it that it isn't optimal in a tuned build. I'll probably still cram him in my list for flavor/style points. Is Breath of Fury any good or is it too slow? For example, 10 tokens swinging gets you a total of 55 damage, with no buffs, but you are also out of creatures. Also, Shared Animosity is a must in here.

this is my list in progress, please note that it has more than 100 cards; it's not finished. I just wanted to post so people could brainstorm from it

Lol at Shared Animosity. That could make things ugly quickly. Frenzy and Anger are in my Krenko assembly pile.

Krenko Math:

Krenko equipped with sword of the paruns or umbra mantle + ashnod's altar + any other goblin in play
tap Krenko to produce 2 more goblins (3 now); sacrifice 2 of them to altar to generate 4 mana; use 3 to untap Krenko and repeat, this nets 1 mana each time which can lead to infinite mana and infinite creatures (infinite damage if that initial 1 other creature was sharpshooter)

Krenko equipped with sword of the paruns or umbra mantle + skirk prospector or phyrexian altar + 3 other goblins in play (2 if prospector out)
tap Krenko to produce 4 more goblins (now 7); sacrifice 3 of them to generate 3 red mana; untap Krenko and repeat again for infinite mana, creatures, and sharpshooter damage

Krenko equipped with thornbite staff + any sacrifice outlet + any other goblin in play

tap Krenko to make 2 goblins; sacrifice one of them; untap Krenko; repeat for infinite creatures (and thus infinite result of sac outlet)

I know most of us are thinking this, but i wanted to actually show the combos i saw with him and hope people add more innovation to what's already here. I will write up my list once it's finalized. I need to make 11 more cuts *I plan to submit to the challenge in "Three Kings" article on daily magic this week.

Quote from Linqed

Why would you play Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon in an EDH deck? Blood Moons go right up with Armageddon's, Ruinations, infinite combo's and everything else that's completely unfun and against the spirit of the format.

To stop other things like primetime and crazy ramp into tooth and nail combos, which are also against the spirit of EDH. Also, he's in red... he needs every bit of help he can get.

This list looks tight, the only thing I can qq about is no siege gang commander or worldfire. Just think, with all your mana doubling effects, worldfire and cast krenko

Quote from Linqed

Why would you play Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon in an EDH deck? Blood Moons go right up with Armageddon's, Ruinations, infinite combo's and everything else that's completely unfun and against the spirit of the format.

goblin king + blood moon or magus of the moon = opponents can't block (good secondary strategy if a million tokens don't get produced)

It also, aside from the obvious hinder your opponents, works with ib halfheart.

it shuts down problem cards like tabernacle too

Quote from Linqed

Yeah, so does a Wasteland or a Strip Mine, you don't need to Blood Moon for that. If you have a million tokens, you opponents can block a few, but the majority comes through, so that's not really valid.

I agree, I always include strip mine into each of my decks, and wasteland in a couple that are not so color specific.

I agree with you also on the fact that if you have a million tokens, you win because the opponents cannot block them all.

what my argument was, if you cannot produce a mass of token, then blood moon aids you in getting through unblocked and protected. Thus, why it was labeled a secondary strategy.

That said, what are the best ways to deal with some problem cards for this deck?

Linvala, pithing needle, phyrexian revoker, etc

kismet, loxodon gatekeeper, urabrask, etc

aether flash, lightmine field, tainted aether, lethal vapors, spreading plague

moat, iona, gideon

hinder, spell crumple, hallowed burial

Quote from Linqed

Think about this, are you only playing EDH to win games or to have a good time while playing the game itself? Do you think it's fun when you crippled your opponent to a point where he can't interact with you? And, the other way around, do you think your opponent enjoys himself when you crippled him that much?

In my opinion, 'spell'lands can get blown up, but leave peoples colored sources alone so they're able to interact and play the game.

This is a deck list discussion, this is not the competitive/casual debate. If you want to discuss that, there's a thread for that. Strictly speaking, red more or less needs to run Blood Moon variants to combat multicolor manabases.

thought i posted my link to the deck i decided to consider my "final" for now, but it must not have posted or got removed.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=430998

Quote from Linqed

Think about this, are you only playing EDH to win games or to have a good time while playing the game itself? Do you think it's fun when you crippled your opponent to a point where he can't interact with you? And, the other way around, do you think your opponent enjoys himself when you crippled him that much?

In my opinion, 'spell'lands can get blown up, but leave peoples colored sources alone so they're able to interact and play the game.

If you're playing so many nonbasics that Blood Moon keeps you from casting your spells, you're doing it wrong.

RWF, I think the decision for how all out you try and combo is meta-based.

If your group is heavily combo, run all three and another sac outlet like phyrexian altar.

if your group is casual and fun, run skirk prospector and one or two of the equipments(probably sword of the paruns as it makes the most sense with goblin swarm). those are cards that make sense in the deck anyways and just happen to combo.

Quote from Linqed

Why would you play Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon in an EDH deck? Blood Moons go right up with Armageddon's, Ruinations, infinite combo's and everything else that's completely unfun and against the spirit of the format.

While I generally agree with you that locking people out of mana so they can't play cards is pretty lame. I would argue that with Goblin King it is a win con.