Rivalry
(I followed the instructions for posting the image in the SCD master thread; it didn't work for Explorer)
I've some people adding this to their cube and in some cases it stays and in others it doesn't. What are the opinions on this? How did it play out? Is it better than Hell's Thunder, Zo-Zu, the Punisher, or Chandra's Phoenix? Is it strictly an aggro-only card?
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Thanks. I effed around with this for quite a while and then got too frustrated with it. I'd love to know how to make this work. I wonder if the fact I'm using the office computer has something to do with. It gave me no option even close to "Copy Image Location."
It's been in my cube ever since Islip found it and I won't be cutting it anytime soon. It takes more work than sulfuric vortex, but has been just as good when you run it. I like it a ton with fireblast
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It is strictly an aggro only card. You play it in decks that don't need any lands after their fourth. This puts slower decks into a tough spot: They either stop dropping lands after their fourth, too, or they take 2 damage every turn - the same amount that Sulfuric Vortex does. Since the best spells in midrange and control decks cost five or more mana, they will turn Rivalry on in the long run.
However, they may wait a turn or two and play their cheaper spells first, therefore delaying the damage. And the damage is starting a bit later than with Vortex in the first place. Where Vortex becomes active immediately, Rivalry does not, because most of the time when you cast it with your three lands, your opponent will have only two or three lands out himself (depending on who went first). It also has the drawback that it doesn't work with red's primary disruption - land destruction. That it allows players to gain life can also be problematic against a few cards.
All in all, it is significantly weaker than Sulfuric Vortex, even if it is one-sided when it is turned on. Then again, Vortex is absolutely broken in red aggro and Rivalry is still reasonable. Dealing 2 damage turn after turn is a good way to end a game against an already wounded opponent. And since it doesn't deal damage to both players, it is harder for your opponent to race against it.
I like this card quite a bit. I don't have it in my current 450 list, but I think it's definitely good enough for a lot of 450 cubes. I'd play it at 540 for sure.
It has gone in and out of our cube a few times, with it currently being out. It just doesn't seem to get the job done, it's much worse than Ankh of Mishra which is insane and even Zo-Zu which is decent at best.
I still play it in my cube. My players like it a little better that Words of War in fact. We've seen it have pretty good synergies with cards like Greater Gargadon.
Ya, but I don't need to attack if I can guarantee the damage from the Rivalry. The guaranteed damage is just better, IMO.
Zo-Zus damage output is more than Rivarly though, they are taking 2 a turn from him swinging plus any other creatures you have, and if they want to play lands and fight back they get shocked again. Or he eats a removal spell which timewalks them and lets you get another turn to attack in and means youre slith firewalkers or stormkirk nobles, goblin guides, whatever, dont get killed.
Zo-Zus damage output is more than Rivarly though, they are taking 2 a turn from him swinging plus any other creatures you have, and if they want to play lands and fight back they get shocked again. Or he eats a removal spell which timewalks them and lets you get another turn to attack in and means youre slith firewalkers or stormkirk nobles, goblin guides, whatever, dont get killed.
Eating a removal spell doesn't timewalk your opponent.
And second, reach is important. Guaranteed damage is more important than potential damage output. There aren't very many spells that can do what Rivalry does for red (Sulfuric Vortex, Stoembind, Words of War and Rivalry are pretty much it).
Eating a removal spell doesn't timewalk your opponent.
And second, reach is important. Guaranteed damage is more important than potential damage output. There aren't very many spells that can do what Rivalry does for red (Sulfuric Vortex, Stoembind, Words of War and Rivalry are pretty much it).
They are going to be tapped out when you cast Zo-Zu, since odds are youre playing mono red, and your opponent never passes the turn unless theyre control in which you already beat them anyway, they have to play cards to interact with you every turn. You swing, land, cast Zo-Zu, and pass on turn 3. Now theyre 2 options are play a land, get shocked and play a 3 drop or something to road block, or spot removal Zo-Zu on their turn and drop a land after so they spent their turn removing that Zo-Zu, and you essentially get another attack phase and turn to play another threat/finish them off.
They are going to be tapped out when you cast Zo-Zu, since odds are youre playing mono red, and your opponent never passes the turn unless theyre control in which you already beat them anyway, they have to play cards to interact with you every turn. You swing, land, cast Zo-Zu, and pass on turn 3. Now theyre 2 options are play a land, get shocked and play a 3 drop or something to road block, or spot removal Zo-Zu on their turn and drop a land after so they spent their turn removing that Zo-Zu, and you essentially get another attack phase and turn to play another threat/finish them off.
Except they get to:
Draw a card
Play a land
Attack, possibly
Use the rest of their mana to do something else
Use things such as planeswalkers an additional time.
It's turn 3. Or turn 4, depending who's on the play.
Given that answers in the cube can often cost as little as R or W or 4 life, I would say that you can do all of these things on the turn after Zo-Zu is played.
I think it's just a straight-up bad card personally. It's a decent card if you play it turn 3 and they don't have an answer, but it's pretty bad in most or all other cases.
I found this effect a bit unreliable for aggro. Being on the draw it doesn't work until you miss a land drop. Being on the play, it sucks until really late in the game. And even then, it doesn't hurt every deck you play against.
My friend really likes this card though as he would always plays mana rocks so he could keep developing his mana while his opponent was eating 2 damage. So in a slower deck, it can be strong.
In the end, it can be a powerful card, but it came out of my list because it didn't feel like it was worth the effort involved.
It is good for red decks to have a constant source of damage. However, in comparison to Sulfuric Vortex, Rivalry allows for some maneuvering by your opponent. So it is not a Vortex on that front. What hurts it even more is that Vortex preventing life gain is what makes it so strong. Red damage decks are often designed to deal 20 damage as soon as possible, and Vortex helps ensure that 20 are enough. There are surprisingly many ways to gain life once you are in the five mana range, and red decks often have a very hard time dealing with that.
Rivalry
(I followed the instructions for posting the image in the SCD master thread; it didn't work for Explorer)
I've some people adding this to their cube and in some cases it stays and in others it doesn't. What are the opinions on this? How did it play out? Is it better than Hell's Thunder, Zo-Zu, the Punisher, or Chandra's Phoenix? Is it strictly an aggro-only card?
Thanks!
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However, they may wait a turn or two and play their cheaper spells first, therefore delaying the damage. And the damage is starting a bit later than with Vortex in the first place. Where Vortex becomes active immediately, Rivalry does not, because most of the time when you cast it with your three lands, your opponent will have only two or three lands out himself (depending on who went first). It also has the drawback that it doesn't work with red's primary disruption - land destruction. That it allows players to gain life can also be problematic against a few cards.
All in all, it is significantly weaker than Sulfuric Vortex, even if it is one-sided when it is turned on. Then again, Vortex is absolutely broken in red aggro and Rivalry is still reasonable. Dealing 2 damage turn after turn is a good way to end a game against an already wounded opponent. And since it doesn't deal damage to both players, it is harder for your opponent to race against it.
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True, I only like Zo-Zu by a small margin because he can actually attack
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Ya, but I don't need to attack if I can guarantee the damage from the Rivalry. The guaranteed damage is just better, IMO.
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Zo-Zus damage output is more than Rivarly though, they are taking 2 a turn from him swinging plus any other creatures you have, and if they want to play lands and fight back they get shocked again. Or he eats a removal spell which timewalks them and lets you get another turn to attack in and means youre slith firewalkers or stormkirk nobles, goblin guides, whatever, dont get killed.
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Eating a removal spell doesn't timewalk your opponent.
And second, reach is important. Guaranteed damage is more important than potential damage output. There aren't very many spells that can do what Rivalry does for red (Sulfuric Vortex, Stoembind, Words of War and Rivalry are pretty much it).
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They are going to be tapped out when you cast Zo-Zu, since odds are youre playing mono red, and your opponent never passes the turn unless theyre control in which you already beat them anyway, they have to play cards to interact with you every turn. You swing, land, cast Zo-Zu, and pass on turn 3. Now theyre 2 options are play a land, get shocked and play a 3 drop or something to road block, or spot removal Zo-Zu on their turn and drop a land after so they spent their turn removing that Zo-Zu, and you essentially get another attack phase and turn to play another threat/finish them off.
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Except they get to:
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Yes of course...on turn 2 against mono red...
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That's a pretty fast Zo-Zu.
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It's turn 3. Or turn 4, depending who's on the play.
Given that answers in the cube can often cost as little as R or W or 4 life, I would say that you can do all of these things on the turn after Zo-Zu is played.
I think it's just a straight-up bad card personally. It's a decent card if you play it turn 3 and they don't have an answer, but it's pretty bad in most or all other cases.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
My friend really likes this card though as he would always plays mana rocks so he could keep developing his mana while his opponent was eating 2 damage. So in a slower deck, it can be strong.
In the end, it can be a powerful card, but it came out of my list because it didn't feel like it was worth the effort involved.
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