We've had several threads over the last few years about green's lack of identity. With WOTC giving green more tools like Wolfir Avenger and Yeva, they're clearly promoting flash in green. I'm paraphrasing, but MaRo has made multiple statements like this
Maro: Flash is primary in green and secondary in blue
Magic Player: But there are more flash creatures in blue than in green . . .
Maro: Lorwyn messed that up because we gave all the faeries flash, also I work further in the future than you do. Flash is primary in green.
Clearly they're going to continue pushing this direction with green.
Given that, I'm wondering if we have enough density of cubeworth reactive cards to really start pushing instant speed play in green. If you only have one flash card in a deck, it makes playing the deck kind of weird, but if you have a bunch of them, you can really build around it. Here's what I came up with off the top of my head (and a quick perusal of eidolon's list)
Is that enough to start pushing a theme? Are there other cards you'd run if you wanted to push that theme? I'm just brainstorming here, trying to figure out if it's a good strategy or not, and I appreciate any input.
The bigger the flash theme gets, the less impacting it'll be, because players will be watching out for it more keenly. Restoration Angel is a blowout right now because the effect is relatively rare in the cube. If you had 10 flash creatures in every color, people would be less likely to walk into blow-out situations.
Playing a reactive strategy doesn't necessarily mean that your deck is playing a bunch of instant spells, just that you are the one with the answers instead of the person who tries to dictate the pace of the game.
With creatures that trump your opponent's board presence, very good removal for noncreature threats, the most card advantage potential among all colors, some tutors + a way to reuse the spells that were best against your opponent, green is already an excellent reactive color.
Then forgot I used the word reactive and pick whatever word for you means "green as a color that plays at instant speed more often than at sorcery speed, a color where leaving mana open doesn't mean they're not doing anything that turn"
Right now, Wolfir Avenger fits really strangely into green decks because you aren't gaining much value by him being an instant. You gain the blowout ability that wtwlf talks about, but NOT the flexibility that I'd really like to have. I want to pass the turn with 3 different things I could do in hand, and then choose which one fits the situation. Flash in Avenger if they send a 2/2 my way, Krosan Grip whatever equipment they play, or cast Harrow and keep ramping since I didn't need to play my avenger.
Essentially I'd love for green to play the way blue does at high mana costs. Pass the turn. If they play something you want to counter, then you counter it. If they don't, then you cast Fact or Fiction, or Gifts Ungiven, or Thirst for Knowledge. Blue mages get options and they get to play on their opponent's turns with those options. I think it would be really cool if green got similar options to that, it would really make green a far more interactive color.
Given that goal, pump spells, which are typically green's go to instant, don't really do what I'm referring to. Harrow, on the other hand, is the perfect example. You get to ramp if you can afford to, but you still have mana up on your opponent's turn if you need to interact with them and put off the ramping until later.
I suspect we just don't have the cards to do this at this point in time, but I was wondering if other people had any ideas for cards that I was missing.
The bigger the flash theme gets, the less impacting it'll be, because players will be watching out for it more keenly. Restoration Angel is a blowout right now because the effect is relatively rare in the cube. If you had 10 flash creatures in every color, people would be less likely to walk into blow-out situations.
I think I covered this above, but just to be explicit: I'm not looking to always create awesome blowout situations, I'm looking to give green options on the opponent's turn, which means a density of instant speed interaction. Can you imagine passing the turn with 2 islands and 2 forests in play, a Yeva, a Mystic Snake, a 6 drop, a land, and a Harrow in hand? Yes this is highly idealized, but you could counter a spell, you could play your 4/4, or you could ramp and play your 6 drop next turn.
I agree with you, if every color had 10 flash creatures it wouldn't be very good, but I'm not just talking about creatures, and I'm not talking about every color. I'm talking about giving green options it's never really had before.
Here's an idea: instead of making just pushing flash as a green theme, push it as a blue/green theme. Every guild needs an identity, and flash could conceivably wind up becoming the defining mechanic for Simic decks in a cube. We've already got Yeva and a few other quality flashers in green, several fairies and other flashy fliers in blue, and Alchemist's Refuge to seal the deal.
Vernal Equinox and Alchemist's Refuge would at least give your theory a sporting chance in the present day. But we're then into the league of two-card combos...
I think it's pretty awesome that they're pushing green with instant-speed creatures. I'd like to see some of them do things when they enter the battlefield, too, like maybe 187 an artifact.
One smaller interaction I just thought of is how it plays well with double sided werewolves. You can pass your turn to flip them with less of a tempo hit by playing spells on your opponent's turn.
Maro: Flash is primary in green and secondary in blue
Magic Player: But there are more flash creatures in blue than in green . . .
Maro: Lorwyn messed that up because we gave all the faeries flash, also I work further in the future than you do. Flash is primary in green.
Clearly they're going to continue pushing this direction with green.
Given that, I'm wondering if we have enough density of cubeworth reactive cards to really start pushing instant speed play in green. If you only have one flash card in a deck, it makes playing the deck kind of weird, but if you have a bunch of them, you can really build around it. Here's what I came up with off the top of my head (and a quick perusal of eidolon's list)
Cubeworthy green instants and flash cards
Cards that probably aren't good enough otherwise, but might make it if you were pushing the strategy
Is that enough to start pushing a theme? Are there other cards you'd run if you wanted to push that theme? I'm just brainstorming here, trying to figure out if it's a good strategy or not, and I appreciate any input.
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Then forgot I used the word reactive and pick whatever word for you means "green as a color that plays at instant speed more often than at sorcery speed, a color where leaving mana open doesn't mean they're not doing anything that turn"
Right now, Wolfir Avenger fits really strangely into green decks because you aren't gaining much value by him being an instant. You gain the blowout ability that wtwlf talks about, but NOT the flexibility that I'd really like to have. I want to pass the turn with 3 different things I could do in hand, and then choose which one fits the situation. Flash in Avenger if they send a 2/2 my way, Krosan Grip whatever equipment they play, or cast Harrow and keep ramping since I didn't need to play my avenger.
Essentially I'd love for green to play the way blue does at high mana costs. Pass the turn. If they play something you want to counter, then you counter it. If they don't, then you cast Fact or Fiction, or Gifts Ungiven, or Thirst for Knowledge. Blue mages get options and they get to play on their opponent's turns with those options. I think it would be really cool if green got similar options to that, it would really make green a far more interactive color.
Given that goal, pump spells, which are typically green's go to instant, don't really do what I'm referring to. Harrow, on the other hand, is the perfect example. You get to ramp if you can afford to, but you still have mana up on your opponent's turn if you need to interact with them and put off the ramping until later.
I suspect we just don't have the cards to do this at this point in time, but I was wondering if other people had any ideas for cards that I was missing.
I think I covered this above, but just to be explicit: I'm not looking to always create awesome blowout situations, I'm looking to give green options on the opponent's turn, which means a density of instant speed interaction. Can you imagine passing the turn with 2 islands and 2 forests in play, a Yeva, a Mystic Snake, a 6 drop, a land, and a Harrow in hand? Yes this is highly idealized, but you could counter a spell, you could play your 4/4, or you could ramp and play your 6 drop next turn.
I agree with you, if every color had 10 flash creatures it wouldn't be very good, but I'm not just talking about creatures, and I'm not talking about every color. I'm talking about giving green options it's never really had before.
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One smaller interaction I just thought of is how it plays well with double sided werewolves. You can pass your turn to flip them with less of a tempo hit by playing spells on your opponent's turn.
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