The discussion of Frost Titan got me thinking about blue finishers in the cube. Looking in the cube comparison data, only Sphinx of Jwar Isle ranks (with 7 appearances) at 360. Moving to 450, Jwar drops to 3rd place behing Keiga, the Tide Star (16x) and Consecrated Sphinx (15x). My read on this is that there's a consensus on the best three, but one consensus on the top. I think the vote at 360 is probably split for 1st among Keiga and Consecrated, with Jwar bringing up a solid 3rd place, which is why Jwar is the only one featured in the rankings.
Anyway, I was curious what people's thoughts are. I suppose Frost Titan could be added to the list, but he only shows up in the comparison data at 540.
How many blue 6+ finishers should be in 360? in 450? How would you rank the finishers for your cube, based on power, fun, or whatever your personal preference is?
I run just Keiga of the listed options at about 320, and it was the same at 400. I could run Consecrated Sphinx, Sphinx of Jwar Isle or Frost Titan instead, though, without noticing a great deal of difference. I wouldn't consider any of the other options until I'd included all of those four.
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@Goodking: You wouldn't run Meloku over Frost Titan?
I'm seriously considering dropping Keiga at this point. The splashability aspect was always really cool until I started drafting with 8-10 people more often than Winstoning with 2, and at this point I don't think that's a big issue. With that out of the way, the other big finishers seem to just be better than Keiga, considering all the times she's either taken something irrelevant or taken nothing at all.
I'm also considering cutting back on my blue finishers (counting Jace3 I run 5 blue finishers AND inkwell (who almost doesn't count as a blue finisher) in my 455, which is probably too many, so I may cut one of them for something smaller like Dungeon Geists.
I'd probably rate them as
Jace, Memory Adept
Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Consecrated Sphinx
Frost Titan
Keiga, the Tide Star
@Goodking: You wouldn't run Meloku over Frost Titan?
I'm seriously considering dropping Keiga at this point. The splashability aspect was always really cool until I started drafting with 8-10 people more often than Winstoning with 2, and at this point I don't think that's a big issue. With that out of the way, the other big finishers seem to just be better than Keiga, considering all the times she's either taken something irrelevant or taken nothing at all.
I'm also considering cutting back on my blue finishers (counting Jace3 I run 5 blue finishers AND inkwell (who almost doesn't count as a blue finisher) in my 455, which is probably too many, so I may cut one of them for something smaller like Dungeon Geists.
I'd probably rate them as
Jace, Memory Adept
Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Consecrated Sphinx
Frost Titan
Keiga, the Tide Star
and I wouldn't include Inkwell in the list.
Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking ranking-wise. At 360, I'm going to try Meloku, Sphinx of Jwar Isle, and Consecrated Sphinx. I don't run Jace 3.0 because of fun factor.
I'm sad for your group that you don't find powerful cards fun, but to each his own. I more just wanted to make sure he was included on this list because I think he counts as a finisher more than any other planeswalker out there.
Each of the top four 6-mana creatures has their own strengths and weaknesses, but I think that it's really a matter of a playgroups' tastes in regards to what should be included. I don't think that either of those choices are really that different in regards to power level.
Each of the top four 6-mana creatures each has their own strengths and weakness', but I think that it's really a matter of a playgroups' tastes in regards to what should be included. I don't think that either of the choices are really that different in regards to power level.
Agreed wholeheartedly. I think you can extend this to the top 6 blue finishers, and include Meloku and Jace3 in the list. I honestly think you can justify excluding almost any of them (the only untouchable one in my group is Sphinx of Jwar Isle, even though I love most of them), and it just comes down to how the rest of your cube is built and what your playgroup enjoys.
I left out Consecrated Sphinx for at least a year before there was a big call in my playgroup to include her. Since she's clearly good enough for inclusion, I went ahead and found space.
I'm sad for your group that you don't find powerful cards fun, but to each his own. I more just wanted to make sure he was included on this list because I think he counts as a finisher more than any other planeswalker out there.
Powerful cards are fun. However, Jace 3 just kind of feels bad to both win with and lose to. It doesn't feel "earned".
IDK, Jace always left a bad taste in people's mouths over here.
@Goodking: You wouldn't run Meloku over Frost Titan?
I would and do, but I was strictly considering six-drops here. I guess Meloku should be considered as one, but he hadn't come up before my post so I deliberately omitted him from discussion. He, Jace 3 and Keiga are my finisher suite.
EDIT: Apparently Nof has Meloku listed, but either he wasn't in her list before or I missed him
I would and do, but I was strictly considering six-drops here. I guess Meloku should be considered as one, but he hadn't come up before my post so I deliberately omitted him from discussion. He, Jace 3 and Keiga are my finisher suite.
Ahh. I misunderstood your reference to "the listed options" to mean the listed options from Nof's post directly above yours, where Meloku was #1. My bad.
Ahh. I misunderstood your reference to "the listed options" to mean the listed options from Nof's post directly above yours, where Meloku was #1. My bad.
Well, my bad too for failing to read Nof's post properly in the first. But ya, Meloku is really good. I would run 4 finishers at 455 including him, and you're right that 5 plus Inkwell seems a bit too many. Dungeon Geists is a very good card that seems like a good replacement.
Agreed wholeheartedly. I think you can extend this to the top 6 blue finishers, and include Meloku and Jace3 in the list. I honestly think you can justify excluding almost any of them (the only untouchable one in my group is Sphinx of Jwar Isle, even though I love most of them), and it just comes down to how the rest of your cube is built and what your playgroup enjoys.
I left out Consecrated Sphinx for at least a year before there was a big call in my playgroup to include her. Since she's clearly good enough for inclusion, I went ahead and found space.
I think out of the entire finishing suite meloku is the only one that is not justifiable to take out. He wins games, but he's beatable and not unfun. Jace 3 can be unfun, Consecrated Spinx can die without value, Sphinx of Jwar Isle can be boring, Frost Titan can die easily, and Keiga can be played around. But meloku is just a house, and he's the only uncuttable one so far, he's splashable and costs 5 mana, he's a tank!
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I think out of the entire finishing suite meloku is the only one that is not justifiable to take out. He wins games, but he's beatable and not unfun.
The thing with Meloku is that he's deceptively good, and as such some people don't play him because they don't get it, and you can't explain it to them. I think he's amazing, but if your playgroup doesn't play him at all, I think you can justify cutting him and your blue section won't particularly suffer for it. Any of the other blue finishers will do incredibly similar jobs.
And this is coming from someone who ranks Meloku #1 among blue finishers, I just think it really does come down to your playgroup.
The thing with Meloku is that he's deceptively good, and as such some people don't play him because they don't get it, and you can't explain it to them. I think he's amazing, but if your playgroup doesn't play him at all, I think you can justify cutting him and your blue section won't particularly suffer for it. Any of the other blue finishers will do incredibly similar jobs.
And this is coming from someone who ranks Meloku #1 among blue finishers, I just think it really does come down to your playgroup.
Indeed. And some people will see that and want to play him, and some people won't. My point is not that Meloku isn't good, it's the Meloku isn't sufficiently better than other blue finishers to justify inclusion if he isn't getting played.
I'd still recommend playing him, and I don't think he's going anywhere in my cube anytime soon.
I recently dropped Frost Titan for Deadeye Navigator. It's not as objectively powerful, but it interacts with just about everything in the cube, and I think it's a lot more fun. It can even go infinite with Palinchron.
Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Jace, Memory Adept
Keiga, the Tide Star / Consecrated Sphinx (toss up for how I'm feeling that day)
Frost Titan
Bribery
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Morphling
I've been thinking lately that I would like to have a stable of finishers that I can rotate in and out. My thinking is a lot of them are fairly interchangeable, so it would be fun and fresh to see new ones more often. It sounds like people have their list of finishers that are run commonly:
Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Jace, Memory Adept
Keiga, the Tide Star
Consecrated Sphinx
Frost Titan
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Morphling (now probably Aetherling)
I'm looking for a larger list to rotate in and out. What other blue finishers would you rank just below these ones?
Some of those are what I'm looking for (Inkwell Leviathan, Palinchron, Rite of Replication), but I am looking more for proactive finishers that win on their own. For the most part, powerful blue creatures or planeswalkers I guess. More in line with the current list I posted.
I've been thinking lately that I would like to have a stable of finishers that I can rotate in and out. My thinking is a lot of them are fairly interchangeable, so it would be fun and fresh to see new ones more often. It sounds like people have their list of finishers that are run commonly:
Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Jace, Memory Adept
Keiga, the Tide Star
Consecrated Sphinx
Frost Titan
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Morphling (now probably Aetherling)
I'm looking for a larger list to rotate in and out. What other blue finishers would you rank just below these ones?
I think this is a good idea. Particularly at the higher casting costs there is a certain amount of duplication of function. For small to medium cubes you don't want all these cards but it might be nice to see old favourites from time to time. Inkwell Leviathan and Palinchron could also be included here.
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I think this is a good idea. Particularly at the higher casting costs there is a certain amount of duplication of function. For small to medium cubes you don't want all these cards but it might be nice to see old favourites from time to time. Inkwell Leviathan and Palinchron could also be included here.
And I'm interested in trying even "worse" finishers. If they really are that bad, they can come back out. But I get the feeling that they will only be (for example) 15% worse while being a lot more fun because they are fresh.
Does anyone else still just think of Meloku as a female and refuses to think otherwise?
Would say:
Meloku
Consecrated
(Morphling)
Keiga
Frost Titan
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
I probably would have, if the flavor text didn't start with the word "He". I'm kind of hoping tavern swindler, zealous conscripts and Olivia don't see this thread...
Mana sinks are really annoying to me personally. I don't want to spend UUUUUUUU for my bomb to dominate. I want my bomb to dominate. For that reason I run
Keiga
Meloku
Rite of Replication
Big Jace
Upheaval
As my blue finishers.
I will probably cut keiga for Aetherling simply due to the power of the card, but I won't like it.
Anyway, I was curious what people's thoughts are. I suppose Frost Titan could be added to the list, but he only shows up in the comparison data at 540.
How many blue 6+ finishers should be in 360? in 450? How would you rank the finishers for your cube, based on power, fun, or whatever your personal preference is?
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I'm seriously considering dropping Keiga at this point. The splashability aspect was always really cool until I started drafting with 8-10 people more often than Winstoning with 2, and at this point I don't think that's a big issue. With that out of the way, the other big finishers seem to just be better than Keiga, considering all the times she's either taken something irrelevant or taken nothing at all.
I'm also considering cutting back on my blue finishers (counting Jace3 I run 5 blue finishers AND inkwell (who almost doesn't count as a blue finisher) in my 455, which is probably too many, so I may cut one of them for something smaller like Dungeon Geists.
I'd probably rate them as
Jace, Memory Adept
Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Consecrated Sphinx
Frost Titan
Keiga, the Tide Star
and I wouldn't include Inkwell in the list.
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Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking ranking-wise. At 360, I'm going to try Meloku, Sphinx of Jwar Isle, and Consecrated Sphinx. I don't run Jace 3.0 because of fun factor.
I'm sad for your group that you don't find powerful cards fun, but to each his own. I more just wanted to make sure he was included on this list because I think he counts as a finisher more than any other planeswalker out there.
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Agreed wholeheartedly. I think you can extend this to the top 6 blue finishers, and include Meloku and Jace3 in the list. I honestly think you can justify excluding almost any of them (the only untouchable one in my group is Sphinx of Jwar Isle, even though I love most of them), and it just comes down to how the rest of your cube is built and what your playgroup enjoys.
I left out Consecrated Sphinx for at least a year before there was a big call in my playgroup to include her. Since she's clearly good enough for inclusion, I went ahead and found space.
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Powerful cards are fun. However, Jace 3 just kind of feels bad to both win with and lose to. It doesn't feel "earned".
IDK, Jace always left a bad taste in people's mouths over here.
I would and do, but I was strictly considering six-drops here. I guess Meloku should be considered as one, but he hadn't come up before my post so I deliberately omitted him from discussion. He, Jace 3 and Keiga are my finisher suite.
EDIT: Apparently Nof has Meloku listed, but either he wasn't in her list before or I missed him
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Ahh. I misunderstood your reference to "the listed options" to mean the listed options from Nof's post directly above yours, where Meloku was #1. My bad.
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Well, my bad too for failing to read Nof's post properly in the first. But ya, Meloku is really good. I would run 4 finishers at 455 including him, and you're right that 5 plus Inkwell seems a bit too many. Dungeon Geists is a very good card that seems like a good replacement.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I think out of the entire finishing suite meloku is the only one that is not justifiable to take out. He wins games, but he's beatable and not unfun. Jace 3 can be unfun, Consecrated Spinx can die without value, Sphinx of Jwar Isle can be boring, Frost Titan can die easily, and Keiga can be played around. But meloku is just a house, and he's the only uncuttable one so far, he's splashable and costs 5 mana, he's a tank!
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The thing with Meloku is that he's deceptively good, and as such some people don't play him because they don't get it, and you can't explain it to them. I think he's amazing, but if your playgroup doesn't play him at all, I think you can justify cutting him and your blue section won't particularly suffer for it. Any of the other blue finishers will do incredibly similar jobs.
And this is coming from someone who ranks Meloku #1 among blue finishers, I just think it really does come down to your playgroup.
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You can always "demonstrate" his power
Indeed. And some people will see that and want to play him, and some people won't. My point is not that Meloku isn't good, it's the Meloku isn't sufficiently better than other blue finishers to justify inclusion if he isn't getting played.
I'd still recommend playing him, and I don't think he's going anywhere in my cube anytime soon.
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Jace, Memory Adept
Keiga, the Tide Star / Consecrated Sphinx (toss up for how I'm feeling that day)
Frost Titan
Bribery
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Morphling
That's how I rank them from best to worst.
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Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Jace, Memory Adept
Keiga, the Tide Star
Consecrated Sphinx
Frost Titan
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Morphling (now probably Aetherling)
I'm looking for a larger list to rotate in and out. What other blue finishers would you rank just below these ones?
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Some of those are what I'm looking for (Inkwell Leviathan, Palinchron, Rite of Replication), but I am looking more for proactive finishers that win on their own. For the most part, powerful blue creatures or planeswalkers I guess. More in line with the current list I posted.
L2 Judge
I think this is a good idea. Particularly at the higher casting costs there is a certain amount of duplication of function. For small to medium cubes you don't want all these cards but it might be nice to see old favourites from time to time. Inkwell Leviathan and Palinchron could also be included here.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
And I'm interested in trying even "worse" finishers. If they really are that bad, they can come back out. But I get the feeling that they will only be (for example) 15% worse while being a lot more fun because they are fresh.
Cards like Guile are what I'm looking for.
L2 Judge
Would say:
Meloku
Consecrated
(Morphling)
Keiga
Frost Titan
Sphinx of Jwar Isle
My 450 Cube
I probably would have, if the flavor text didn't start with the word "He". I'm kind of hoping tavern swindler, zealous conscripts and Olivia don't see this thread...
Mana sinks are really annoying to me personally. I don't want to spend UUUUUUUU for my bomb to dominate. I want my bomb to dominate. For that reason I run
Keiga
Meloku
Rite of Replication
Big Jace
Upheaval
As my blue finishers.
I will probably cut keiga for Aetherling simply due to the power of the card, but I won't like it.
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