Alright, so here's a deck I've been working on and testing with positive results vs top tier decks. This is my first primer so bare with me if something is incomplete or you find something wrong. Just let me know and I'll fix it asap! If there is enough interest I'll work on getting a banner etc. to make it look nicer. Any input/suggestions/concerns are welcome, but keep them constructive please.
As far as a history lesson goes, the closest thing that I have found to this that has seen competitive play is Esper Spirits in standard earlier this year that was successfully run by Jon Finkel & Co. found here http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=43969 This deck, however, is not solely spirits nor does it function quite the same. And I'll keep this thread updated if there is even interest for it.
I've been tinkering around with two different versions of the deck- one aggro and one more tempo styled. So far, I've enjoyed the aggro version more and have had more success with it. I'll go over the aggro version of the deck and again if there is enough interest in this deck I'll post my current tempo list as well.
The purpose of this deck is to flood the battlefield with as many flying creatures as possible while throwing down anthems and finishing them off with...well let's go over the deck and you'll see your options. But, swinging for 24+ flying damage on T4 is possible.
Instants [4] 3 Path to Exile [Our removal for that one guy that we simply need gone] 1 Mirrorweave [Makes swinging big early possibly. I'll explain later]
Enchantments [4] 4 Favorable Winds [Hits every creature except GoST, but gets his angel]
Artifacts [3] 3 Aether Vial [Let's us play our creatures while we cast SP/LS/Anthems etc.]
Sideboard 3 Hokori, Dust Drinker [Drinks Dust, Eats Tron...anything with big spells really. I've Sb this is vs Tron people scoop] 2 Torpor Orb [Protection vs TwinSplit/Pod] 3 Beckon Apparition [GY removal and we get a guy for 1cmc? Thanks!] 3 Disenchant [Artifact/Enchantment hate. Could be used for removal vs affinity too, but probably unecessary] 1 Angel of Jubilation 2 Oblivion Ring [Only PW hate] 1 Path to Exile
I'm still actively tweaking a card here or there and playing with the numbers of a few. Especially the SB.
Aven Mimeomancer [Was orginally in MD. Swapped out to lower mana curve. His limited control factor was useful vs certain matchups though. Good SB card, just doesn't fit my current meta atm]
Dovescape [Would be great for a lot of matchups, but it is slow to get out]
Dungeon Geists [People like him, but he isn't fast enough for me]
Phantasmal Image [Probably has a place in this deck. Just need more testing on what to remove for him]
Aether Shockwave [I think it'd be too inconsistent considering this is NOT strictly a Spirit deck.]
Serra Avenger [Not bad, but I like my other 2 slot options better]
The deck is fairly straight forward. It's swarm aggro with guys they most likely can't block. I find myself letting their creatures through more often than not. Often I find myself casting or top carding an anthem and swinging big the following turn.
Here's how we swing for 24+ damage on T4 on the play-
T1 Aether Vial
T2 Charge counter, cast Favorable Winds.
T3 Charge counter, Spectral Procession. Opponents EoT turn vial PotC
T4 Vial in a creature, Mirrorweave targeting Pride of the Clouds (PotC will be a 6/6 (1/1 +4 from flying guys and +1 from anthem) Swing for 24+dmg. Yes, their guys will be a copy of PotC too, but usually they are tapped from attacking (Delver/Goblin Guide/Goyf/Lynx etc) or it's a Bob that is forced to block simply to not die...even though if they've lost even 2 life from lands or Bob they probably die anyways. But let's assume they have 2 life left over from a block or bolt etc...
T5 Lingering Souls/Flashback. Vial in a creature. Assuming you only have 1 PotC and your vial'd creatures were 1/1 Hawks, swing for 17+ dmg...or if you waited to Mirrorweave now...45+ dmg (PotC is a 9/9+)
Of course I've had games go on longer simply b/c you don't get all those pieces and are forced to block some. But I've found this deck races well vs other aggro decks and can give a 20+life beat down before combos can go off. I think it's a big surprise factor and not many deck can simply deal with that much flying.
Board sweepers you say. Yeah they hurt and they are annoying. But I've actually over come them probably 70% of the time. Usually PotC isn't killed(You learn timing on playing him). And usually they are forced to use it while a LS is still in my gy or a LS/SP is still in hand.
Coming Soon
So far the only chance I've had to play this deck in any tourny was at the Atl GP. The tourny on Sat. night ended up only being an 8 man swiss round. Here is how it went:
Round 1- Esper Skies vs Jund won 2-0
Round 2- Esper Skies vs Zoo won 2-1
Round 3- Esper Skies vs RUG Delver lost 1-2
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
"Punch him in the face" and "punch harder" are unacceptable in WCT. Advocating violence falls under the category of malicious advice. Suspension issued.
- Teia
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
"Punch him in the face" and "punch harder" are unacceptable in WCT. Advocating violence falls under the category of malicious advice. Suspension issued.
- Teia
A thousand people thought of making U/W flyers with a black splash for Lingering Souls when Favorable Winds came out. It's not like someone can steal an idea that's been circulating around for months. This is a pointless accusation.
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Well, MD there are 10 different cards, slightly different land base and 9 different SB cards. Though I'll probably drop the 4 Leyline of Sanctity. I did not "steal" any deck list. and as said in the post before, "stealing" and idea many people have been pondering is a pointless accusation lol. TBH, I think my deck will roll out more consistently and quicker than the one you posted.
But anyways, it'd be awesome if we could keep the criticism constructive please! I'd love to hear some card suggestions both MD and SB.
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
and I'd like this forum to give credit where credit is due. you mentioned looking at our decklist before building this. planeswalker and I are pissed. just take down the copycat deck list and we can all go back to our day
"Punch him in the face" and "punch harder" are unacceptable in WCT. Advocating violence falls under the category of malicious advice. Suspension issued.
- Teia
and I'd like this forum to give credit where credit is due. you mentioned looking at our decklist before building this. planeswalker and I are pissed. just take down the copycat deck list and we can all go back to our day
Guess what? It is not brain surgery to come up with the idea of UW skies after the printing of Favorable Winds- I came up with it the first time I saw it, as did thousands of others. No one is due anything. My list is very different from yours or this one, but I did not know that until your rude post pointed it out. This is a VERY old Archetype. Back the heck off- you say "we" as if you were part of the other thread, but you have exactly 3 posts as I am writing this, and all of them are in this thread. Additionally, the other thread has not been added to for over a month, so it was probably on page 5 at least.
B19- I think that it is critical that a deck that runs Vial run 4x. If you are using it, then you want it turn one to get the most use out of it, and that means you add in as many as you legally can. Trust me, if you are getting good use out of it, it will become a target- making multiples more relevant.
Black19 keep up the deckbuilding, i like this deck. But as i said earlier, try the extra vial. I didnt point out why, i was busy, but drworm just did. Playing that turn 1 vial is extremely good. Drawing one later is yeah, meh, but thats usually how it is with Vial ive encountered.
Vials dont save you from maytr/proc or melina pod. Every vial you draw is one less creature or answer you dont draw. Drawing a vial with a karn on the field doesnt help. You need more then a vial to save you from metal man. There's a reason no competative decks run vials anymore.
Vials dont save you from maytr/proc or melina pod. Every vial you draw is one less creature or answer you dont draw. Drawing a vial with a karn on the field doesnt help. You need more then a vial to save you from metal man. There's a reason no competative decks run vials anymore.
Perhaps not in Tier 1 (yet), but Death and Taxes runs it to great effect and is certainly competitive. When you have a high saturation of quality creatures you get plenty on the draw, so you are rarely stuck without. Regardless, the best turn for Vial is turn one, and the most reliable way to do that in Modern is to run four. There are games when it is a liability, but there are also games where I draw nothing but lands- bad luck happens.
Perhaps not in Tier 1 (yet), but Death and Taxes runs it to great effect and is certainly competitive. When you have a high saturation of quality creatures you get plenty on the draw, so you are rarely stuck without. Regardless, the best turn for Vial is turn one, and the most reliable way to do that in Modern is to run four. There are games when it is a liability, but there are also games where I draw nothing but lands- bad luck happens.
Its a great card, its just old world technology at this point in the format. If it made your deck faster it would be in affinity, and it synenergies with artifacts, but its not.
Its a great card, its just old world technology at this point in the format. If it made your deck faster it would be in affinity, and it synenergies with artifacts, but its not.
It's not old world technology at all, and you completely misunderstand Vial's purpose if you think it's just about making your deck faster. Vial is very helpful tempo-wise, especially when you can make use of your lands when you would otherwise be limited to casting 1 creature per turn. In this case, it allows him to cast Lingering souls the same turn he's playing Squadron Hawks. He also can drop anthems and creatures in the same turn so it's not an awkward draw.
For what it's worth, Vial DID see play in affinity for a long time, but it just doesn't fit the current gameplan of affinity very well where they want to put their hand on the board by turn 2 and swing away for the win.
Not trying to say one is better or the other, but I just think you're misunderstanding Aether Vial's purpose.
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It's not old world technology at all, and you completely misunderstand Vial's purpose if you think it's just about making your deck faster. Vial is very helpful tempo-wise, especially when you can make use of your lands when you would otherwise be limited to casting 1 creature per turn. In this case, it allows him to cast Lingering souls the same turn he's playing Squadron Hawks. He also can drop anthems and creatures in the same turn so it's not an awkward draw.
For what it's worth, Vial DID see play in affinity for a long time, but it just doesn't fit the current gameplan of affinity very well where they want to put their hand on the board by turn 2 and swing away for the win.
Not trying to say one is better or the other, but I just think you're misunderstanding Aether Vial's purpose.
I agree with cbus05. Vial is great when you lack critter 1-drops and 0-drops. Zoo doesn't play Vial either, as putting Kird Apes on the battlefield on Turn 2 instead of Turn 1 is just a big tempo kick in the nuts.
I'd like to start off by apologizing for Shadowless10's posts, as you can tell, he is somewhat new to MTGSF.
@Dr. Worm:
Shadowless10 WAS a part of my original thread, and was simply defending our work. Yes, I agree with you that many people can come up with the same idea independently of each other (FV with Souls in this case), however, I do not believe it's "fair" or "right" for Black19 to "consider this deck [his] own" when the two decks share they same core, and the MD's differ by a mere 10 cards (meaning 28 identical spell slots). Look at the many different UW Delver incarnations--Pike, Spirits, Angel, and "traditional"--I'm sure if you looked at them, many would differ by 10+ slots, yet we still blanket them under UW Delver.
I'm not angry at Black19 or anyone, I personally look up to you on this forum, so I don't want this post taken the wrong way.
But anyways, props to you for still believing in D&T since this format's inception.
@Black19
Seeing as you have recently joined this forum, I just wanted to give you one word of advice: be careful of double- and triple-posting. Also (and this goes out to the_cardfather too) perhaps, since both our lists are so similar, how about we create a primer in Developing Competitive for UW(x) Favorable Winds? This will allow our deck to be viewed more seriously and frequently, possibly creating an actual established modern deck.
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Well, this is going to be the only time I address this-I had said I had seen a U/W/b Spirits and at some point a U/W flyer deck. It was probably yours. But I probably browsed it over a month ago and as you can see didn't even post in the thread. I was stating this b/c I know I didn't come up with the idea. I did say I like to consider it "my own" b/c when I built the decklist I wasn't looking at anything for reference and I never see anyone play this deck. I see the similarities and I apologize if you feel your deck was ripped off. I assure you, that wasn't the case. About the dbl posting, I did that from my phone and wasn't really being careful haha.
About merging into the competitive thread- I think we should wait a while until we get some tournament results. I'll be able to test the deck in some local tournaments coming up in July. That being said I wouldn't mind other decklists posted here, in fact, I encourage it. I created this primer b/c I believe that I have found a deck that could be competitive against top tier decks, and wanted to share with the community.
I'll test a 4th Aether Vial in the near future- busy weekend with work coming up.
B19- I think that it is critical that a deck that runs Vial run 4x. If you are using it, then you want it turn one to get the most use out of it, and that means you add in as many as you legally can. Trust me, if you are getting good use out of it, it will become a target- making multiples more relevant.
Oh, and ignore the accusations. Just report them if they go overboard rather than engaging with them. Your motives are pure.
I've found Aven Mimeomancer more useful than one would think. Making a Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Wurmcoil Engine etc a little 3/1 is pretty humorous. :p. W/O the ability I find him a 4/2-5/3 most of the time which isn't too shabby for a 3cmc. I've been strongly considering testing AoJ though. But I'm thinking he might be more useful as a SB card. 6 anthems has done me well so far.
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
I'd like to start off by apologizing for Shadowless10's posts, as you can tell, he is somewhat new to MTGSF.
@Dr. Worm:
Shadowless10 WAS a part of my original thread, and was simply defending our work.
Perhaps behind the scenes, but there is no way to know that as he had (at the time) only made 3 posts- all of which were here to complain.
Yes, I agree with you that many people can come up with the same idea independently of each other (FV with Souls in this case), however, I do not believe it's "fair" or "right" for Black19 to "consider this deck [his] own" when the two decks share they same core, and the MD's differ by a mere 10 cards (meaning 28 identical spell slots). Look at the many different UW Delver incarnations--Pike, Spirits, Angel, and "traditional"--I'm sure if you looked at them, many would differ by 10+ slots, yet we still blanket them under UW Delver.
Claiming a deck is your own idea, only mean that you, with no specific help from the larger community, came up with the idea and developed it to it's introductory state. I created several deck archetypes on my own, such as Warp World, MagaTron, and Maga Heartbeat in old Type 2 seasons; and Melira (no-pod) and Hunted Orb in Modern. Now, of course when I came to the interwebs to post them and talk about them I found that I was not the only, or even the first person to have created and talked about these formats, but from I still received no outside direction in creating them for myself.
This gets even murkier when you are talking about a synergy archetype, rather than a combo archetype. The second that Wizards spoiled Favorable Winds thousands of people in the community probably thought to use the card to rebuild the old Skies archetype, and some who never heard of the old archetype simply saw the synergy and thought to exploit it. All B19 is saying is how he came to the idea, and that he designed the specifics of the deck with no specific help from other sources. Granted, it seems a little insecure to point it out so succinctly, but nothing he has said is untrue.
I'm not angry at Black19 or anyone, I personally look up to you on this forum, so I don't want this post taken the wrong way.
I guess, all I am trying to say is that ownership of a deck archetype is a pointless thing to squabble over, especially with the annonymous nature of the interwebs, as each party can speak truely and correctly, and still disagree.
Also (and this goes out to the_cardfather too) perhaps, since both our lists are so similar, how about we create a primer in Developing Competitive for UW(x) Favorable Winds?
It should be noted, that B19 actually attempted to create a primer, where as you just started a thread talking about your deck. That said this "Primer" needs a lot of work before it is as informative as it should be, so neither is authoritative.
Ill be honest, I did not think about the potential limited control factor of the card, but unless your metagame is really full of big fat that you have to deal with, it seems like a fringe use.
I've been strongly considering testing AoJ though. But I'm thinking he might be more useful as a SB card. 6 anthems has done me well so far.
Where AoJ has an advantage is that he is both body and pump. Whenever you are considering using Anthems in your deck you have to balance the number of threats to be pumped, with the number of pumps to boost your threats. That balance can be tricky at times depending on the board state, if you look at the combat math. AoJ (and things like Lords) get around that balance by giving you both. Now, you also have to balance whether the body you are gaining is worth the extra mana you are paying for the pump creature, but in this case as long as this deck stays two colors I believe it is.
As far as a history lesson goes, the closest thing that I have found to this that has seen competitive play is Esper Spirits in standard earlier this year that was successfully run by Jon Finkel & Co. found here http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=43969 This deck, however, is not solely spirits nor does it function quite the same. And I'll keep this thread updated if there is even interest for it.
I've been tinkering around with two different versions of the deck- one aggro and one more tempo styled. So far, I've enjoyed the aggro version more and have had more success with it. I'll go over the aggro version of the deck and again if there is enough interest in this deck I'll post my current tempo list as well.
The purpose of this deck is to flood the battlefield with as many flying creatures as possible while throwing down anthems and finishing them off with...well let's go over the deck and you'll see your options. But, swinging for 24+ flying damage on T4 is possible.
4 Squadron Hawk [Great card advantage]
4 Pride of the Clouds [THE main creature. This guy gets BIG...FAST]
2 Geist of Saint Traft [Everyone knows him well. +his angel gets anthem'd]
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner [Protects our guys from a lot of removal]
4 Goldenglow Moth [Great chump blocker that has the potential to swing with anthems]
3 Angel of Jubilation [Big body+anthem. Also shuts down Pod single-handily]
Sorcery [8]
4 Spectral Procession [Swarm+gets Pride big quick]
4 Lingering Souls [See Spectral Procession]
Instants [4]
3 Path to Exile [Our removal for that one guy that we simply need gone]
1 Mirrorweave [Makes swinging big early possibly. I'll explain later]
4 Favorable Winds [Hits every creature except GoST, but gets his angel]
Artifacts [3]
3 Aether Vial [Let's us play our creatures while we cast SP/LS/Anthems etc.]
Lands [22]
3 Glacial Fortress
3 Mystic Gate
3 Seachrome Crest
3 Godless Shrine
2 Darkslick Shores
3 Island
4 Plains
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Hokori, Dust Drinker [Drinks Dust, Eats Tron...anything with big spells really. I've Sb this is vs Tron people scoop]
2 Torpor Orb [Protection vs TwinSplit/Pod]
3 Beckon Apparition [GY removal and we get a guy for 1cmc? Thanks!]
3 Disenchant [Artifact/Enchantment hate. Could be used for removal vs affinity too, but probably unecessary]
1 Angel of Jubilation
2 Oblivion Ring [Only PW hate]
1 Path to Exile
I'm still actively tweaking a card here or there and playing with the numbers of a few. Especially the SB.
The deck is fairly straight forward. It's swarm aggro with guys they most likely can't block. I find myself letting their creatures through more often than not. Often I find myself casting or top carding an anthem and swinging big the following turn.
Here's how we swing for 24+ damage on T4 on the play-
T1 Aether Vial
T2 Charge counter, cast Favorable Winds.
T3 Charge counter, Spectral Procession. Opponents EoT turn vial PotC
T4 Vial in a creature, Mirrorweave targeting Pride of the Clouds (PotC will be a 6/6 (1/1 +4 from flying guys and +1 from anthem) Swing for 24+dmg. Yes, their guys will be a copy of PotC too, but usually they are tapped from attacking (Delver/Goblin Guide/Goyf/Lynx etc) or it's a Bob that is forced to block simply to not die...even though if they've lost even 2 life from lands or Bob they probably die anyways. But let's assume they have 2 life left over from a block or bolt etc...
T5 Lingering Souls/Flashback. Vial in a creature. Assuming you only have 1 PotC and your vial'd creatures were 1/1 Hawks, swing for 17+ dmg...or if you waited to Mirrorweave now...45+ dmg (PotC is a 9/9+)
Of course I've had games go on longer simply b/c you don't get all those pieces and are forced to block some. But I've found this deck races well vs other aggro decks and can give a 20+life beat down before combos can go off. I think it's a big surprise factor and not many deck can simply deal with that much flying.
Board sweepers you say. Yeah they hurt and they are annoying. But I've actually over come them probably 70% of the time. Usually PotC isn't killed(You learn timing on playing him). And usually they are forced to use it while a LS is still in my gy or a LS/SP is still in hand.
Round 1- Esper Skies vs Jund won 2-0
Round 2- Esper Skies vs Zoo won 2-1
Round 3- Esper Skies vs RUG Delver lost 1-2
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
I missed VotA in my cards to consider. I was debating on it. I'll update that
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
uh link/why? are they even the same? not very good input :\
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
I find 3 enough because I only really need 1 and can only make use of 2. drawing a 3rd/4th Aether Vial is a dead card unless destroyed.
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
Flame Warning. t_C
A thousand people thought of making U/W flyers with a black splash for Lingering Souls when Favorable Winds came out. It's not like someone can steal an idea that's been circulating around for months. This is a pointless accusation.
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Well, MD there are 10 different cards, slightly different land base and 9 different SB cards. Though I'll probably drop the 4 Leyline of Sanctity. I did not "steal" any deck list. and as said in the post before, "stealing" and idea many people have been pondering is a pointless accusation lol. TBH, I think my deck will roll out more consistently and quicker than the one you posted.
But anyways, it'd be awesome if we could keep the criticism constructive please! I'd love to hear some card suggestions both MD and SB.
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
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[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
B19- I think that it is critical that a deck that runs Vial run 4x. If you are using it, then you want it turn one to get the most use out of it, and that means you add in as many as you legally can. Trust me, if you are getting good use out of it, it will become a target- making multiples more relevant.
I like geist in your list (I went a little cray and used Moonsilver Spear an Puresteel Paladin, as I do not have any geist MODO), but I really do not like Aven Mimeomancer. I think that you might do with a little more pump in the form of Angel of Jubilation instead.
Oh, and ignore the accusations. Just report them if they go overboard rather than engaging with them. Your motives are pure.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Vials dont save you from maytr/proc or melina pod. Every vial you draw is one less creature or answer you dont draw. Drawing a vial with a karn on the field doesnt help. You need more then a vial to save you from metal man. There's a reason no competative decks run vials anymore.
Perhaps not in Tier 1 (yet), but Death and Taxes runs it to great effect and is certainly competitive. When you have a high saturation of quality creatures you get plenty on the draw, so you are rarely stuck without. Regardless, the best turn for Vial is turn one, and the most reliable way to do that in Modern is to run four. There are games when it is a liability, but there are also games where I draw nothing but lands- bad luck happens.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Its a great card, its just old world technology at this point in the format. If it made your deck faster it would be in affinity, and it synenergies with artifacts, but its not.
It's not old world technology at all, and you completely misunderstand Vial's purpose if you think it's just about making your deck faster. Vial is very helpful tempo-wise, especially when you can make use of your lands when you would otherwise be limited to casting 1 creature per turn. In this case, it allows him to cast Lingering souls the same turn he's playing Squadron Hawks. He also can drop anthems and creatures in the same turn so it's not an awkward draw.
For what it's worth, Vial DID see play in affinity for a long time, but it just doesn't fit the current gameplan of affinity very well where they want to put their hand on the board by turn 2 and swing away for the win.
Not trying to say one is better or the other, but I just think you're misunderstanding Aether Vial's purpose.
I agree with cbus05. Vial is great when you lack critter 1-drops and 0-drops. Zoo doesn't play Vial either, as putting Kird Apes on the battlefield on Turn 2 instead of Turn 1 is just a big tempo kick in the nuts.
In other decks, Vial promotes instant-speed tricks like draw-step Tidehollow Scullers and Leonin Arbiters with Flash.
@Dr. Worm:
Shadowless10 WAS a part of my original thread, and was simply defending our work. Yes, I agree with you that many people can come up with the same idea independently of each other (FV with Souls in this case), however, I do not believe it's "fair" or "right" for Black19 to "consider this deck [his] own" when the two decks share they same core, and the MD's differ by a mere 10 cards (meaning 28 identical spell slots). Look at the many different UW Delver incarnations--Pike, Spirits, Angel, and "traditional"--I'm sure if you looked at them, many would differ by 10+ slots, yet we still blanket them under UW Delver.
I'm not angry at Black19 or anyone, I personally look up to you on this forum, so I don't want this post taken the wrong way.
But anyways, props to you for still believing in D&T since this format's inception.
@Black19
Seeing as you have recently joined this forum, I just wanted to give you one word of advice: be careful of double- and triple-posting. Also (and this goes out to the_cardfather too) perhaps, since both our lists are so similar, how about we create a primer in Developing Competitive for UW(x) Favorable Winds? This will allow our deck to be viewed more seriously and frequently, possibly creating an actual established modern deck.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
About merging into the competitive thread- I think we should wait a while until we get some tournament results. I'll be able to test the deck in some local tournaments coming up in July. That being said I wouldn't mind other decklists posted here, in fact, I encourage it. I created this primer b/c I believe that I have found a deck that could be competitive against top tier decks, and wanted to share with the community.
I'll test a 4th Aether Vial in the near future- busy weekend with work coming up.
I've found Aven Mimeomancer more useful than one would think. Making a Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Wurmcoil Engine etc a little 3/1 is pretty humorous. :p. W/O the ability I find him a 4/2-5/3 most of the time which isn't too shabby for a 3cmc. I've been strongly considering testing AoJ though. But I'm thinking he might be more useful as a SB card. 6 anthems has done me well so far.
Cockatrice username- Chrismp19.
Formats played: Modern
Avatar and Sig created by http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182339
Cocaktrice Game Room Quotes
[14:58]  Paramount_Elite: Anyways don't confuse Casual EDH with EDH or the highly compettive format called French Duel Commander.
Claiming a deck is your own idea, only mean that you, with no specific help from the larger community, came up with the idea and developed it to it's introductory state. I created several deck archetypes on my own, such as Warp World, MagaTron, and Maga Heartbeat in old Type 2 seasons; and Melira (no-pod) and Hunted Orb in Modern. Now, of course when I came to the interwebs to post them and talk about them I found that I was not the only, or even the first person to have created and talked about these formats, but from I still received no outside direction in creating them for myself.
This gets even murkier when you are talking about a synergy archetype, rather than a combo archetype. The second that Wizards spoiled Favorable Winds thousands of people in the community probably thought to use the card to rebuild the old Skies archetype, and some who never heard of the old archetype simply saw the synergy and thought to exploit it. All B19 is saying is how he came to the idea, and that he designed the specifics of the deck with no specific help from other sources. Granted, it seems a little insecure to point it out so succinctly, but nothing he has said is untrue.
I guess, all I am trying to say is that ownership of a deck archetype is a pointless thing to squabble over, especially with the annonymous nature of the interwebs, as each party can speak truely and correctly, and still disagree.
It should be noted, that B19 actually attempted to create a primer, where as you just started a thread talking about your deck. That said this "Primer" needs a lot of work before it is as informative as it should be, so neither is authoritative.
Ill be honest, I did not think about the potential limited control factor of the card, but unless your metagame is really full of big fat that you have to deal with, it seems like a fringe use.
Where AoJ has an advantage is that he is both body and pump. Whenever you are considering using Anthems in your deck you have to balance the number of threats to be pumped, with the number of pumps to boost your threats. That balance can be tricky at times depending on the board state, if you look at the combat math. AoJ (and things like Lords) get around that balance by giving you both. Now, you also have to balance whether the body you are gaining is worth the extra mana you are paying for the pump creature, but in this case as long as this deck stays two colors I believe it is.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!