Welder-Survival '06

[Finn]

EDIT: Recent events have rekindled interest in Welder-Survival so I will be updating this opening post from time to time.

I know, I know. This is not new. This is not competitive anymore. Or is it?

To begin with, I will be linking to all the Welder Survival threads I could find on this site. They are here, here, here, and especially here. That last one should put into context exactly how biased I am about this topic. That way, you can weigh my clear position against what I have to say.

I intend to answer some questions to clear the air to begin with:

Q. Wasn't this a popular deck a few years ago that fell out of favor after Legacy got better decks?
A. Not exactly. For the most part, it fell out of favor due to lack of interest in it far more than lack of results. To be entirely honest, it never really was in favor.

Q. Have you taken care of the Survival-less opening Hands?
A. Yes and no. The toolbox is at an all-time low after some pruning. This has helped a lot. There are about 10 cards that are not very good without Survival online, which is more than Survival Advantage, but a lot less than ATS or earlier versions of Welder Survival. As a result, it can win beatdown style through card advantage, especially after the sideboard, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Q. Why discuss it now?
A. Well, for me, I have been paying a lot of attention to the meta (which is moving quite slowly), and the decks that are showing up more commonly are the ones this deck tends to do well against. Plus, some newer cards have given the deck a boost.

Q. So what are the cards? What does the deck look like?
A. I am glad I asked. Let me show you.

Welder-Survival 5/31/07

Deck
Green 4 Survival of the Fittest 4 Eternal Witness 2 Quirion Ranger 1 Genesis 1 Sakura-Tribe Elder 1 Seal of Primordium White 4 Enlightened Tutor 4 Swords to Plowshares 2 Abeyance Red 4 Goblin Welder 1 Anger 1 Squee, Goblin Nabob 1 Seal of Fire 1 Flametongue Kavu Gold 1 Harmonic Sliver	Artifact 2 Shield Sphere 1 Triskelion 1 Duplicant 1 Sundering Titan 1 Nullstone Gargoyle 3 Chrome Mox Land 2 Tree of Tales 3 Windswept Heath 4 Wooded Foothills 1 Forest 1 Mountain 4 Taiga 3 Savannah 1 Plateau	Sideboard 3 Tin Street Hooligan 2 Red Elemental Blast 2 Pyroblast 2 Seal of Fire 1 Fire Imp 3 Defense Grid 2 Pithing Needle

Notable absenses:
Platinum Angel - For all the time I ran this card in the deck, I can only remember a couple of occasions when I actually searched for it, and I doubt it's ability ever won me even a single game. Her removal is overdue.
Pentavus - This card is the perennial win-more strategy.
Phyrexian Colossus - OK, when do you want this over a better card?
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary - I tried it briefly and found it to be a waste. You only occasionally have more than 2 Forests in play at time of victory.

Now that you have seen the deck, more questions...
Q. Umm, White over Blue?
A. Yes. In the past I read over and over about how "bad" this deck is with White in it. Why? When you have Enlightened Tutor and Swords to Plowshares available, the deck is flat-out faster and more reliable. The Blue versions had Thirst for Knowledge and some had Intuition as well. Those are good cards, but they are not Survival. They are not as good. They dull the focus of the deck. It is a combo. It is a 1-card combo. Don't accept cheap imitations that cost 2. The presence of White over Blue turns the nearly unwinnable Goblin matchup into one heavily slanted in your favor.

Q. Ok, what are these new innovations?
A.
1. Pithing Needles hurt very bad. They are the single hardest obstacle to overcome with this deck, and they are all over. Tin Street Hooligan is the cure. They are cheap card advantage and Goblin killers all rolled into one.
2. Nullstone Gargoyle is so amazing that I can not make this clear enough. It is almost impossible to kill. And while it is in play, it owns most non-Goblin opponents. As hard as Needles are on this deck, Gargoyles are that hard on opponents and more. Gargoyle softlock followed by Sundering Titan the next turn is always game.
3. Abeyance is new. Like any non-storm combo deck, this one is hurt by counterspells (just check out the sideboard). These babies in the main are golden in that matchup, as well as giving you another mainboard option for faster combo decks.

So how does it fare?
Against Goblins - it is very good. Better than 3 out of 4.
Against Threshold - not so good. Maybe 1 out of 3. UGR is much better than UGW.
Against other aggro - very good - just like Goblins essentially.
Against Belcher - very bad. Very very bad
Against Solidarity - about 50/50.
Against IGGy - poor, maybe 1 out of 4.
Against Pikula - fair, though with limited experience.
Against Landstill - pretty good, better than 50/50.
Against Burn - good - about 3 out of 4.
Against Monoblack discard/aggro - good, about 3 out of 4.

It's not the best for every meta, but I have been doing so well with it lately -far better than before. The number one thing I like about the deck is that it is SOOO much fun to play.

More later, but I am interested in what you all think about the deck re-entering the wider meta.

[CynicalSquirrel]

Heh, I've been thinking of reviving this deck myself. It's always been fun to play and really isn't as bad as people think.

What exactly is the 1 Seal of Fire for in your build though? I don't really understand what purpose it could possibly serve. I also think Blue is a lot better than White in the deck. Thirst for Knowledge and Intuition are both more useful than Enlightened Tutor in my opinion.

I also think Platinum Angel is better than Nullstone Gargoyle. Angel is ridiculous against a whole lot of decks, especially if you can Weld it into play on turn 3-4.

[Orion_Pax]

Do you really need 4xSurvival of the Fittest AND 4xEnlightened Tutor? They seem to be serving the same purpose (except for seal of cleansing). I like the inclusion of the Gargoyle just for innovation points, but I think after some more testing, the angel will come out on top.

As always, there is a fight between Abeyance and Orim's Chant. Does the extra card and defense against activated abilities beat out combat in this deck? I think in this case, it actually does.

It would be nice to see some card draw to lessen the loss of blue but the only card that comes to mind is Truce. Oh well.

[A Banana]

I have some Ideas Finn.

Shield Sphere seems like Junk in this deck. Sure it is free but it doesn't do anything on its own - which means I don't like it. My changes to the deck would be:

-2 Shield Sphere
-1 Taiga
-1 Sakura-Tribe Elders
+4 Aether Vial

What is up with the lone STE? The uno rule? Hmm...I'm not sure I follow.

Anyways, Aether Vial has immense synergy with Goblin Welder as it makes it uncounterable (Die thresh die!) and at instant speed. It could be a 3/1 Split with Pithing Needle, though. Otherwise, the list looks solid. Nice job Finn.

[sephorusFR]

Platinum really makes the deck survive some dire situation
I like the gargoyle tough, it really hoses some archetype and provide a semi-soft lock component.

I can't understadn why you ditched intuition but come on Thrist for Knowledge is a real enabler for an active welder. It adds ressiliency to the deck and make it more consistent.

[Finn]

I would like to begin by saying that I am not intending to flame anyone.

The remarks I have seen so far are typical of what folks have to say about this deck. There are tons of misconceptions about this deck. The reason, I believe is that more than any other deck, you really need to play it to see how it works. And everyone should. It is amazing fun and the combo is nuts.

1. Sakura-Tribe Elder. Yes. One. Hey generally fetches the One Mountain. He turns green into red. Against anyone with removal, they can just zap Welders, but if the Welder has haste (thanks, Anger) we don't care one iota. Please zap the Welder. They all do. That's because it takes a few wasted STPs or Bolts before the neophyte opponent realizes, that this one already did its job and the next one is away. IF...you have a mounatin in play. Taiga is usually fine, but a well-placed Wasteland could have spelled disaster in older versions of this deck if you weren't holding another. Not any more.

2. How is blue better? We know what the cards do. Don't bother telling us what their game impact is. Tell us what matchups that are currently bad become good. From literally hundreds of games with many different configurations, I can tell you that against Gobs, blue over white means death unless you have Survival in the opening hand, and do not see a turn 1 Lackey. White provides STP and E. Tutor to make this situation far more likely. Thirst and Intuition occur on the same turn Goblins is doing 15 damage to you.

In fact, I can tell you that every aggro matchup is improved with white. These blue cards can not replace Survival. They do not provide the entire engine. They do not fetch replacement Welders. They do not put Anger AND the fattie in the graveyard. They do not fetch Squee. They do not fetch a wall, or Ranger, or Hooligan, or Kami, etc. They provide a one-time boost that fails if the opponent can kill off a 1/1. Oooh, card advantage. The card advantage of Survival of the Fittest is far better than what Thirst for Knowledge can claim. And 4 tutors means Survival twice as often...turn 1 or 2...every game.

Versus combo or control, you want Nullstone Gargoyle in play flat out. Survival twice as often fetches it twice as often. In play versus combo turns 2 or 3 or maybe 4...every game.

3. Platinum Angel. OK, when is this necessary? Versus which opponents?

Goblins - 4 Gempalm Incinerators, and atleast 8 search and tutor cards to get them.
Any deck with White - STP
High Tide - Wish for Chain of Vapor

I would normally not advocate listing defensive strategies to prove a point like this except in this case. The only time you want Angel is when all the lockdown creatures have failed. Recurring Sundering Titan and Nullstone Gargoyle locks down control and combo. Recurring Duplicant and Triskelion locks down aggro. This proactive pounding is the winning strategy with the deck. Angel does none of this. All it does is 4 dmg per turn and hope that the opponent can't do anything about an artifact creature. If you are in this boat, you are in the Twilight Zone or playing the deck wrong.

4. Shield Sphere. Goblin Welder requires an artifact in play to swap with the one in the graveyard. In addition to being a fabulous blocker, this puppy is a fetchable swap target.

5. 1 Seal of Cleansing is a tutorable Pithing Needle, Humilty, or Tormod's Crypt killer.

6. 1 Seal of Fire is a tutorable Meddling Mage or Withered Wretch killer.

7. Why not vial? I WANT my Welder countered! Before Survival is in play, it gets a counter out of their hand. After Survival is active, the next one is away at no card cost (thanks, Squee).

8. Abeyance. It's hard to win without Survival. Even the blue versions have a hard time winning without Survival. If they counter that, you have to get it back (Witness) or get another (Tutor). Abeyance is game 1 anti-counterspell surprise goodness. Chant could be better here. I can't say, but the kicker is hard to manage in this deck.

9. 4x Survival + 4x Enlightened Tutor=8 Survival. Yes I want 4 of each. I would play 8 of each if I could.


Additional notes:

Welders are throwaway pecks. Once they are in play, they weld in and out a few creatures for one turn (yes, I said a few in one turn), and then the probably die. Get another. Used all four? (this almost never happens, as the opponent learns after Mogg Fanatic #2 that it is pointless to kill them) Anyway, used all four? Fine, get Genesis.

Quirion Ranger is sick with Welder and Sundering Titan. You can respond to the Titan's land-killing ability by untapping the Welder and saving your land (typically Taiga). Then you replay it and attack with haste. The Welder is now untapped. You can weld the Titan out after the attack to kill off even more land if you want. And do it again using ranger on the opponent's upkeep to kill even more land if any remain. All this on the turn they entered play. Two 1/1 one-mana creatures is all it takes. Do this with a Tree of Tales as the other artifact to weld, and start with a tapped Taiga, and you get a NET GAIN in mana. Tap each for green, pitch Squee, fetch another Ranger, summon her and do it all over again. Did I mention that you can do most of this in response to a lightning bolt at the welder?

Every game, you fetch:
Anger, appropriate fattie, possibly Squee (count the mana you have, and the number of creatures in your hand - it's a tough call at times), second fattie for lockdown, Shield Sphere if you need it, Ranger if you have the mana and creaures in hand, Welder - in that order usually. This is solid, it takes turns 3 and 4, and you CAN NOT LOSE if it occurs.

Express option
pitch a fattie for Anger, pitch Anger for Welder, summon Welder - This gets you a fattie on turn two attacking, if Chrome Mox was in you opening draw.

It takes a long time to get all the options down. I hope I have cleared up a lot of the misconceptions. Good luck.

[Urza's_Geek]

nabob dude?
just a suggestion.
never played with a survival deck.

[Parcher]

I think that you may be underestimating the real reasons why Teen Titans fell out of favor.

Pithing Needle is a obvious one. The one maindeck way you have to remove it must be gotten before it resolves. Otherwise the odds of drawing any singleton are minimal. Pulling more of them from the side must be assumed that they will in turn be matched by like Hate from the opponent.

The only accelleration you are running is Chrome Mox, STE is too slow to be anything more than a ramp in Legacy. It is a poor assumption to believe that you will be able to get Survival out, have to mana to tutor up an Anger, an aftifact, a Welder, cast the Welder, and activate the Welder before your opponent can stop this. One activation in any case will at best be an annoyance. Welder dies to a stiff breeze, and it was always the continued use of the Welder that made it dangerous.

The main reason it's no longer played is Dredge, and Threshold. Every deck in the format now either abuses their graveyard, has tons of hate for those that do so, or does both. Using Tormod's Crypt as an example, even if the Welder survives to activate, and you somehow get an active SotF as well, you still need artifacts in the yard to use him. Wretch is much worse, as it will contine to target these cards, and you can't count on your removal to quell him, only one card you have is tutorable, and Wretch will accompany either discard, or countermagic.

The scenario you envisioned is absoultely correct. If it happens, you will almost always win. But there is so much in most of the meta's decks, both main and sideboard, that can easily disrupt this. And since most of these decks will be able to do this, as well as win by turn four, I can't see this being a viable deck in the current format.

[Finn]

Thank you Parcher, for your thoughtful response. Naturally, I disagree with a lot of it. So here goes:

I think that you may be underestimating the real reasons why Teen Titans fell out of favor.

This is not nearly the same as Teen Titans. I would not bother to mention this naming convention except that I believe you have some ideas about this deck that come largely from modeling your thoughts after what you have seen from that one

Pithing Needle is a obvious one. The one maindeck way you have to remove it must be gotten before it resolves. Otherwise the odds of drawing any singleton are minimal. Pulling more of them from the side must be assumed that they will in turn be matched by like Hate from the opponent.

Well, there are a few maindeck Pithing Needles running around the format. My choices reflect the amount I have seen. That is, there are occasionally two in Threshold main, but not many others. I currently have two artifact killers in the main, and one of them is tutorable. Many more decks have some in the sideboard. Naturally, my sideboard reflects that as well (5 more artifact killers for a total of 7 and one is tutorable).

The only accelleration you are running is Chrome Mox, STE is too slow to be anything more than a ramp in Legacy.

Yeah, this is something that really you would have to try out the deck to appreciate (except that I detailed it in my previous post). Wastelands or the occasional poor land draw can leave you without a Mountain. The STE is just to enable you to fetch the one basic Mountain in the deck. It is not an accelerant - that's just a nice side effect.

... It is a poor assumption to believe that you will be able to get Survival out, have to mana to tutor up an Anger, an aftifact, a Welder, cast the Welder, and activate the Welder before your opponent can stop this. One activation in any case will at best be an annoyance. Welder dies to a stiff breeze, and it was always the continued use of the Welder that made it dangerous

Stop what? What is the opponent going to do? Kill the Welder? Uh oh, looks like I have to spend that to fetch another. And another, and another...Killing the Welder is a waste. I have only said that a gazillion times. Nobody seems to get it. Welders die. They are disposable. Dear opponents, please waste your efforts killing the Welders...

...or did you mean, kill Survival? Well, that's why God himself created Eternal Witness. You just leave the last green mana open in case something goes wrong. Then you fetch up the solution. If it is an artifact, the solution is Hooligan. If it is an enchantment, choose Kami. If Naturalize took out Survival, get the Witness and retrieve Survival. It is really that simple.

The main reason it's no longer played is Dredge, and Threshold. Every deck in the format now either abuses their graveyard, has tons of hate for those that do so, or does both. Using Tormod's Crypt as an example, even if the Welder survives to activate, and you somehow get an active SotF as well, you still need artifacts in the yard to use him. Wretch is much worse, as it will contine to target these cards, and you can't count on your removal to quell him, only one card you have is tutorable, and Wretch will accompany either discard, or countermagic.

The hate is out there. But graveyard hate is not the best way to go. For Tormod's Crypt, you can just fetch up one of the Hooligans to take care of that before going off. The same is true of any artifact (except Needle - see above). Withered Wretch is a bigger issue since I do not run any cheap creature-based removal to Survival up, but consider that they only have 4 Wretches at most while you have 4 STP, 4 Seals of Fire (post sb), and 4 Enlightened Tutors to find them. These are pretty good odds at keeping the Wretches out of the picture. Not to mention that I have outgunned a Wretch a few times by filling the graveyard with more targets than he could remove. This requires a Quirion Ranger and some mana as well, so the setup is significant. It certainly is not the best solution, but then you have to be pretty unlucky to be in that spot.

The scenario you envisioned is absoultely correct. If it happens, you will almost always win. But there is so much in most of the meta's decks, both main and sideboard, that can easily disrupt this. And since most of these decks will be able to do this, as well as win by turn four, I can't see this being a viable deck in the current format.

Well, you have counterspells coming in at you. There is no denying that. Threshold is tough because of them in game 1. Again I say, look at the sideboard. There is a lot of help coming in from there. This is one of those decks that wins turn 4 at the latest when undisrupted like you mentioned, so you had better have FoW (Daze occasionally works as well) in the opening grip and pray I don't have Red Blast or Pyroblast (or even Abeyance). Duress can be good as well if I don't have Enlightened Tutor to dodge it.

But really that is it. It is a one-card combo that must be stopped from the beginning. You are locked instead of dead, so it is not always apparent that you have lost yet, but you have. It can still be slowed, but it is so hard to stop completely. Players who have faced me know full well that the moment I untap with Surival online, the game is mostly over. This would be turn 2 or 3 usually. It does not matter what is done at that point. Disruption can delay it, but the engine is so strong that the conclusion is just about definite. You have to ruin Survival on turn 1 or 2 at the latest to stand a realistic chance.

I should mention that there are a LOT of things that need to go right to make the whole thing work. There is a huge learning curve here, make no mistake. But the tools are available to get all the ducks in a row. I have spent literally years working out the kinks, and this is definitely the best honed version yet. It's the Hooligans and especially the Gargoyle that are so strong recently.

**********************************************************

I know it seems like I am simply denying the criticisms being leveled at the deck, but if you feel that way, try to understand that I really have been there, done that with so many different situations, and so many people have already helped me go through the improvements for this since I first started work on it back in 2004.

I am still entirely open to improvement suggestions, but to say that it is not competitive; that just isn't so. I have won far too many tournaments filled with top tier decks to agree to that.

Just this weekend:
Goblins 2-1
Landstill 2-0
Goblins 2-0
Burn 2-1
Zilla Stompy 2-0
Dirt 1-0 (opponent had to leave)

That's how it goes. Thresh is quite unpopular in my meta (it matches up poorly against Dirt, which IS popular). Thresh may have beat me, and some opponents aren't the best, but the aggro matchups are so heavily in Welder's favor, it is not even close.

What would be cool is some feedback from folks who have taken it for a spin. This is not so much a deck under construction as one in need of some new blood. As far as I know, I am the only person who has ever publicly advocated such a deck. It would be just ducky to get some fresh ideas, especially on the anti-Threshold front. I just don't face it that much anymore.

[Parcher]

Forgive me for not using quotes, but I would like to address some of Your points, Finn.

1. You are correct in that Teen Titans was a misnomer. It was more of a generalization in deck styles than a reflection of this particular one.

2. The lack of your actually seeing Needles should not be a reason to be unprepared for such a damaging card. You can only tutor for an answer if you have Survival first.

3. This is where I hold the most issue with your choices. You run eleven lands! And two that cannot be fetched. Even with Wall of Roots, most Survival decks can't make the series of plays you desire in a single turn. That's why so many of the RGSA versions added Rofellos. Odds are, that you will not have more than three mana available on turn four. Without a Mox, or STE, the odds are even worse. Fetchlands will help in drawing a land, but not in getting the four to five mana you minimally need on the board. Plus, if you are tutoring, Fetchlands can slow you down an additional half turn. Ranger can aid this, but now we are saying, "Oh kill a Welder, fetch a Welder. Kill a Ranger, fetch a Ranger" which is not realistic.

4. Yes, kill the Welder, get another...etc. Sure, but this costs time. This is not a fast deck, and giving any deck in Legacy another turn while you wait to get online can be dangerous.

5. Getting a Hooligan in response to Crypt is fine. The problem then becomes you facing 15 points of Goblins, or a 3/3 and a 4/4 with your 2/1 while you recover. As you only run 2 or three fatties, and no lifegain, or Wall/stall creatures. And while you can tutor for your answer to Wretch, remember this. If you do so, you lose a draw, and most importantly, you can't use Survival until you draw the card. The tempo advantage lost does not seem worth it. As for countermagic, tutors are their best friend. They know what you are drawing, and know you have lost a card to do so. Informed decisions make counterspells almost pro-active when, as you said, it really comes down to one card that must be kept off the board. And I've faced the Genesis/Witness recursion enough times to know, without Survival, all you have is a 4/4 that's going to get Plowed.

I have only toyed with playing this deck, but have played against it more times than I would like(especially since I used to have to try and beat it with Landstill ). Your results just seem a little optimistic for what used to be a good deck in Legacy, and is currently... well not as much.

[Finn]

We are going around in circles a bit here. I am going to try to speak about your concerns exactly.

1. Needles. I certainly would not say that they are unpopular in my meta. Most players have simply relegated them to the board. And that seems to make sense. I have to construct the deck's defense to match what I see. If Needles become a problem, I suppose I could add more anti-artifact cards to mine, but I would probably just stop playing the deck. There is no sense going up a wall to win.

2. This is not eleven lands.

2 Tree of Tales
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Taiga
3 Savannah
1 Plateau

There are 13 mana-producing lands, 19 total, and 3 Chrome Moxes. Where's the problem? Still, I see where you are going with this. There is no such thing as a typical game, but I will try. That way, you can see how the mana situation coincides with a turn 4 explosion or something similar.

A mediochre start versus aggro (where there the fewest variables) is as follows:
turn 1 land, E. Tutor
turn 2 land, Survival
turn 3 land, nothing, eot, Witness for Anger, Anger for Squee, Squee for Triskelion, I get pounded for 10
turn 4 get Squee, land, Trike for Duplicant, Duplicant for Welder, play Chrome Mox imprinting nothing, play Quirion Ranger, play Welder, extend hand

In this example, I only had 2 spells that I actually wanted in my opening hand, Tutor and Ranger. It was a bad hand. That means I had to spend extra mana to make the hand work. I got no acceleration from Mox, Quirion Ranger, or STE. Yet, beginning on turn 4, I can kill 3 to 5 Goblins or zoo critters per turn for the rest of the game, even if he kills off a Welder every turn, including this one. In a few turns, his mana is gone as well, and he is looking at a 7/10.

3. Whenever you start to talk about counterspells, I have to back off a step. That matchup requires a degree of luck I am uncomfortable counting on, and I don't want to overstate the deck's capabilies. There is no guarantee for either me or the opponent. Sometimes, I will actually play Welder on turn 1 (whom they know to be inert until I have Survival) and play nothing on turn 2 and 3, pitching Nullstone Gargoyle. Abeyance should prove useful in forcing Survival through (it's new). Witnesses help a lot here as well. Mostly however, I simply play Survival turn 1 or 2 hoping they have no Force of Will. I am usually in trouble if they counter it, but if they don't I will almost definitely win. That is why I lean on the sideboard a lot for this matchup.

Parcher, did you actually play against a GWR build? I was unaware anyone else played this seriously. You mention that it was a good deck at one time. When was that? The GUR version was never any good against aggro. I get the distinct impression that you are basing your assumptions on evidence from that matchup. It is not the same.

[Finn]

OK, I am bumping. I honestly expected to spark more discussion on this topic. Does anyone out there have any experiences to relate about this sort of deck? Or perhaps some insight into how best to actually win the Threshold matchup?

[Avatar of Kokusho]

The only thing I can suggest vs. Thresh is what (practically) every other deck uses...Tormod's Crypt...or some way to RFG their creatures permanently.

I would definitely like to see this deck become more popular, as it is great fun to play...I just don't like all the hate that exists for it. It's not even special hate...it's the fact that commonly ran cards tend to give this a hard time. If you can find a way to deal with those, then you'll be doing well.

[pooispoois]

You might want to try Loaming Shaman, or any other number of answers, but the fundamental problem is that their game plan is superior to yours in the matchup (and Pithing Needle really hurts). Some matchups can't be resolved just by some sideboard cards, and unfortunately Treshold is one of them.

[A Banana]

Well I have tested and this deck really has a hell of a time beating threshold. You need a great draw or you need to pray the get screwed. Seriosly, I don't see how you can tune this deck to beat thresh easily. This is why I advise putting this deck in the highest drawer of the closet and taking it out when all the thresh decks are dead and pithing needle and tormod's crypt don't exsist anymore.

Sorry.