As we all know, two of the best vampire cards printed will be making their glorious return in M13: Vampire Noctunus and Vampire Nighthawk. It's my hope that these cards will be able to carry vampire tribal to more competitive heights.
I've come up with a really early prototype and I hope to get some good feedback.
After SOM rotates out this deck may be a little less viable. The biggest hit will be the loss of Blackcleave Cliffs and Go for the Throat. I'm hoping that Ravnica gives us something to work with in the dual lands department because Stromkirk Captain is just too damn good. I think victim of night could prove to be a viable alternative to go for the throat.
Pleas let me know what you think, especially if you think it's terrible and needs significant changing!
First off i have to seriously agree with you on this deck idea. One thing i did notice is why are your running blood seeker? One they rotate after ravnica comes back and plus blood artist is so much better and wont rotate.
First off i have to seriously agree with you on this deck idea. One thing i did notice is why are your running blood seeker? One they rotate after ravnica comes back and plus blood artist is so much better and wont rotate.
Thanks for replying!
I was seriously debating between blood seeker and blood artist. I just liked the idea of blood seeker being able to hurt strong aggro and token decks, but like you said, he'll be rotating out very soon and Blood Artist is still an awesome card.
Get rid of dissentomb and at least a couple GftT and D. blades. You have too much removal imo. You have a lot of 4 drops, have you considered maybe dropping a couple for stromkirk noble. I know he has bad synergy with nocturnus, but he is still the best vamp around.
Get rid of dissentomb and at least a couple GftT and D. blades. You have too much removal imo. You have a lot of 4 drops, have you considered maybe dropping a couple for stromkirk noble. I know he has bad synergy with nocturnus, but he is still the best vamp around.
I put in some swiftfoot boots instead of disentomb. And I'm not sure about Stromkirk Nobles yet... They are fantastic in aggro but they require me to run quite a bit more red and they are pretty bad mid-late game. To be honest, I'm really really hoping for a black one drop vampire to come out in 2013, or more likely Ravnica.
As for removal, I have a lot because of how popular aggro is at the moment and i despise mono white (Champion of the Parish - Silverblade Paladin). Basically, I want to survive all right to the mid game where I can start dropping bombs.
Originally Posted by Mcpatches
Get rid of dissentomb and at least a couple GftT and D. blades. You have too much removal imo. You have a lot of 4 drops, have you considered maybe dropping a couple for stromkirk noble. I know he has bad synergy with nocturnus, but he is still the best vamp around.
I agree here. I am actually considering running sign in blood temporarily for card draw. I also like geths verdict cause it doesnt target creatures and it can get by hexproof
Originally Posted by Mcpatches
Get rid of dissentomb and at least a couple GftT and D. blades. You have too much removal imo. You have a lot of 4 drops, have you considered maybe dropping a couple for stromkirk noble. I know he has bad synergy with nocturnus, but he is still the best vamp around.
I agree here. I am actually considering running sign in blood temporarily for card draw. I also like geths verdict cause it doesnt target creatures and it can get by hexproof
Ooo, sign in blood is getting a reprint... I didn't see that. And geth's verdict is a good option. When it rotates, will tribune to hunger be a suitable replacement I wonder...
i do think tribute to hunger will be a good replacement. Costs one more but it also gives life gain. And yes sign in blood is reprinted this set. i just checked. im going to proxy this on cockatrice and see how it plays
Also, I don't think 20 lands is enough, we've got a lot of 4 drops and olivia's ability always love's extra mana. I'd drop two mountains for another 4 swamps, or 3 swamps and a cavern. 22-23 lands seems ideal.
As for sideboard, I've been working one out with some help.
3x Duress
3x Witchbane Orb
3x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Sever the Bloodline
2x Black Sun's Zenith
Also, I don't think 20 lands is enough, we've got a lot of 4 drops and olivia's ability always love's extra mana. I'd drop two mountains for another 4 swamps, or 3 swamps and a cavern. 22-23 lands seems ideal.
As for sideboard, I've been working one out with some help.
3x Duress
3x Witchbane Orb
3x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Sever the Bloodline
2x Black Sun's Zenith
I can definately understand your concern with that but it can do some crazy stuff if i can find a way to shot a player with a ability from an artifact. im looking into it. plus if you have two on the field the ability stacks and its gets 2 counters. Completely pumps nighthawk to make him ridiculously big and with the lifelink can be a real saver with flying. Maybe Wolfhunter's Quiver or even Lightning Prowess
After much debate i am seriously considering cutting nocturnus just because it almost seems to much... I dont know whether or not im going to finalize that or not but with that it just seems like im trying to do to much. Im still up for debate on it though because the extra pump and evasion factor from nocurnus is hard to pass up. Maybe i should sideboard him. I think the ability to pump all of your vampires is amazing. turn 2 blood artist then attach prowess to him and start pinging the player. Then with the heirs on the field he will be getting pumped every time making him an even biger threat besides just the life loss and gain. It also makes him an effective turn 2 drop or even pumping the vamp the 2/1 flying but cant block. thoughts???
After much debate i am seriously considering cutting nocturnus just because it almost seems to much... I dont know whether or not im going to finalize that or not but with that it just seems like im trying to do to much. Im still up for debate on it though because the extra pump and evasion factor from nocurnus is hard to pass up. Maybe i should sideboard him. I think the ability to pump all of your vampires is amazing. turn 2 blood artist then attach prowess to him and start pinging the player. Then with the heirs on the field he will be getting pumped every time making him an even biger threat besides just the life loss and gain. It also makes him an effective turn 2 drop or even pumping the vamp the 2/1 flying but cant block. thoughts???
Yeah, it seems like your going in a direction where Nocturnus may not benefit you. The deck i'm trying to build with nocturnus is some evasion beatdown with some black control.
I figured with the basic strategy of vamps just beating faces in, removal would be a moot point. I'm also throwing out the idea of Undying Evil for vamps as a way to resist how much of a removal magnet my creatures are. Thoughts (In before 'you don't sideboard')?
I figured with the basic strategy of vamps just beating faces in, removal would be a moot point. I'm also throwing out the idea of Undying Evil for vamps as a way to resist how much of a removal magnet my creatures are. Thoughts (In before 'you don't sideboard')?
You know I've always thought about using undying evil, but I just never found it reliable enough in my playtests.
Just some suggestions on lands, definitely drop the evolving wilds and mountains for another 7 swamps. having 12 sources of red mana is plenty for casting stromkirk and falkenrath. Additionally, that saves you 7 cards that could cause you to lose Nocturnus's bonus.
I don't think Nocturnus is the way to go with Vampires unless some good black one drop vampires are spoiled. Stromkirk Noble is essentially the only one drop worth mentioning for vampire tribal right now, and does not play nice with our would be overrun.
In the abstract the most powerful vampires currently available are 3 or 4 mana (Nighthawk, Olivia, Bloodline Keeper, Stromkirk Captain, Nocturnus, etc) and the ones with tribal mechanics want to finish for a swarm of aggressive creatures below their mana cost. I don't think this really becomes a deck until the likes of Pulse Tracker and Vampire Lacerator show up in standard.
I still don't understand why someone would run Child of the Night over Vampire Interloper. Evasion is much more relevant than life gain.
I don't feel like this deck is aggro enough for interloper. Child of Night gives me some cushion against aggro decks and gains evasion the turn nocturnus hits the field. Though child of night may rotate anyways so interloper may be my only choice. To be honest, in my testing of vampires over the last few sets, interloper has been more underwhelming than child of night. The not being able to block really can make a big difference early on.
I know that people are leaning towards black because of Nocturnus, but when you consider that more than 1/3 of the deck is already non-black, it should become obvious that one would need to take steps to keep black up regardless. This being the case, we need to consider running red vamps at least in the sideboard since pro-black isn't going away...for now Crusader is a huge issue for monoblack anything, and the new "white knight" will I'm sure be hitting the White Weenie lists after rotation at the latest in order to push through some exalted damage. Stromkirk Noble is a house against Weenie decks because they rarely have a way to block him; they either have to waste an O-ring on a 1-drop or continue to suffer from mounting damage turn after turn. Even if he only gets through a couple of times he will be big enough to withstand most burn and quickly becomes more valuable than Child of Night, who is likely to die in the first battle she sees.
People need to seriously consider Liliana of the Dark Realms in this deck as well. She is the best card advantage engine black has access to...I'm not sure what people are looking for in a Planeswalker that they are so down on her, but she is remarkable if you really look at what she does. Every turn she puts an extra card in your hand and shuffles your deck as her +1. The land in your hand means that you don't miss drops, and her pulling the lands out of the deck means that your draws are ever more likely to be relevant play cards. She is also relevant to play of Nocturnus, as her pulling of lands out of the deck makes black more likely to be topdeck, and also the shuffle means that if a non-black card is up that her +1 gives you the opportunity before combat to change the top card. She allows us outstanding deck manipulation, not just "a swamp each turn". Add to that the fact that her -3 can be used as either a buff for us or removal across the board and her power becomes evident. Her ultimate isn't overly relevant in this deck unlesss you choose to run one of the scaled lifedrain spells, but who cares if you get two cards every turn and can -3 an opposing creature or buff an unblocked attacker every now and again?
You know I've always thought about using undying evil, but I just never found it reliable enough in my playtests.
Just some suggestions on lands, definitely drop the evolving wilds and mountains for another 7 swamps. having 12 sources of red mana is plenty for casting stromkirk and falkenrath. Additionally, that saves you 7 cards that could cause you to lose Nocturnus's bonus.
All lands are colorless, and thus all lands equally negate the Nocturnus ability. Swamps are black mana, but they are colorless. Only cards that have a swamp symbol in their cost are Black.
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I've come up with a really early prototype and I hope to get some good feedback.
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Stromkirk Captain
3x Bloodline Keeper
4x Vampire Nocturnus
2x Falkenrath Aristocrat
4x Blood Artist
4x Child of Night
2x Geth's Verdict
2x Victim of Night
4x Go for the Throat
4x Sign in blood
Lands:
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Dragonskull Summit
2x Cavern of souls
13x Swamp
3x Duress
3x Witchbane Orb
3x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Sever the Bloodline
2x Black Sun's Zenith
After SOM rotates out this deck may be a little less viable. The biggest hit will be the loss of Blackcleave Cliffs and Go for the Throat. I'm hoping that Ravnica gives us something to work with in the dual lands department because Stromkirk Captain is just too damn good. I think victim of night could prove to be a viable alternative to go for the throat.
Pleas let me know what you think, especially if you think it's terrible and needs significant changing!
Thanks for replying!
I was seriously debating between blood seeker and blood artist. I just liked the idea of blood seeker being able to hurt strong aggro and token decks, but like you said, he'll be rotating out very soon and Blood Artist is still an awesome card.
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I put in some swiftfoot boots instead of disentomb. And I'm not sure about Stromkirk Nobles yet... They are fantastic in aggro but they require me to run quite a bit more red and they are pretty bad mid-late game. To be honest, I'm really really hoping for a black one drop vampire to come out in 2013, or more likely Ravnica.
As for removal, I have a lot because of how popular aggro is at the moment and i despise mono white (Champion of the Parish - Silverblade Paladin). Basically, I want to survive all right to the mid game where I can start dropping bombs.
Get rid of dissentomb and at least a couple GftT and D. blades. You have too much removal imo. You have a lot of 4 drops, have you considered maybe dropping a couple for stromkirk noble. I know he has bad synergy with nocturnus, but he is still the best vamp around.
I agree here. I am actually considering running sign in blood temporarily for card draw. I also like geths verdict cause it doesnt target creatures and it can get by hexproof
Ooo, sign in blood is getting a reprint... I didn't see that. And geth's verdict is a good option. When it rotates, will tribune to hunger be a suitable replacement I wonder...
Thanks! I suppose there's really no reason not to put a couple in.
4 Blood Artist
3 Bloodline Keeper
2 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Rakish Heir
4 Stormkirk Captian
4 Vampire Nocturnus
4 Vampire Nightbhawk
3 Geth's Verdict
4 Go For The Throat
4 Tragic Slip
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Mountain
7 Swamp
No side yet but i feel like we need an answer to swords in the board. Maybe even main. Maybe Smelt?
I don't know if I like Rakish Heir. It's a good ability, but it's competing with 4 Vampire Nighthawks and 4 Stromkirk Captains in the 3 drop spot, and it's red. If i were to run any red vamp I think it'd be Stromkirk Noble.
Also, I don't think 20 lands is enough, we've got a lot of 4 drops and olivia's ability always love's extra mana. I'd drop two mountains for another 4 swamps, or 3 swamps and a cavern. 22-23 lands seems ideal.
As for sideboard, I've been working one out with some help.
3x Duress
3x Witchbane Orb
3x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Sever the Bloodline
2x Black Sun's Zenith
I can definately understand your concern with that but it can do some crazy stuff if i can find a way to shot a player with a ability from an artifact. im looking into it. plus if you have two on the field the ability stacks and its gets 2 counters. Completely pumps nighthawk to make him ridiculously big and with the lifelink can be a real saver with flying. Maybe Wolfhunter's Quiver or even Lightning Prowess
Yeah, it seems like your going in a direction where Nocturnus may not benefit you. The deck i'm trying to build with nocturnus is some evasion beatdown with some black control.
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
5 swamp
3 mountain
4 Duress
3 Tragic Slip
4 Undying Evil
4 Go For the Throat
Creatures
4 Vampire Nocturnus
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Stromkirk Captain
4 Blood Artist
3 Vampire Interloper
3 Falkenrath Aristocrat
I figured with the basic strategy of vamps just beating faces in, removal would be a moot point. I'm also throwing out the idea of Undying Evil for vamps as a way to resist how much of a removal magnet my creatures are. Thoughts (In before 'you don't sideboard')?
You know I've always thought about using undying evil, but I just never found it reliable enough in my playtests.
Just some suggestions on lands, definitely drop the evolving wilds and mountains for another 7 swamps. having 12 sources of red mana is plenty for casting stromkirk and falkenrath. Additionally, that saves you 7 cards that could cause you to lose Nocturnus's bonus.
In the abstract the most powerful vampires currently available are 3 or 4 mana (Nighthawk, Olivia, Bloodline Keeper, Stromkirk Captain, Nocturnus, etc) and the ones with tribal mechanics want to finish for a swarm of aggressive creatures below their mana cost. I don't think this really becomes a deck until the likes of Pulse Tracker and Vampire Lacerator show up in standard.
I don't feel like this deck is aggro enough for interloper. Child of Night gives me some cushion against aggro decks and gains evasion the turn nocturnus hits the field. Though child of night may rotate anyways so interloper may be my only choice. To be honest, in my testing of vampires over the last few sets, interloper has been more underwhelming than child of night. The not being able to block really can make a big difference early on.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8598354&postcount=297
I know that people are leaning towards black because of Nocturnus, but when you consider that more than 1/3 of the deck is already non-black, it should become obvious that one would need to take steps to keep black up regardless. This being the case, we need to consider running red vamps at least in the sideboard since pro-black isn't going away...for now Crusader is a huge issue for monoblack anything, and the new "white knight" will I'm sure be hitting the White Weenie lists after rotation at the latest in order to push through some exalted damage. Stromkirk Noble is a house against Weenie decks because they rarely have a way to block him; they either have to waste an O-ring on a 1-drop or continue to suffer from mounting damage turn after turn. Even if he only gets through a couple of times he will be big enough to withstand most burn and quickly becomes more valuable than Child of Night, who is likely to die in the first battle she sees.
People need to seriously consider Liliana of the Dark Realms in this deck as well. She is the best card advantage engine black has access to...I'm not sure what people are looking for in a Planeswalker that they are so down on her, but she is remarkable if you really look at what she does. Every turn she puts an extra card in your hand and shuffles your deck as her +1. The land in your hand means that you don't miss drops, and her pulling the lands out of the deck means that your draws are ever more likely to be relevant play cards. She is also relevant to play of Nocturnus, as her pulling of lands out of the deck makes black more likely to be topdeck, and also the shuffle means that if a non-black card is up that her +1 gives you the opportunity before combat to change the top card. She allows us outstanding deck manipulation, not just "a swamp each turn". Add to that the fact that her -3 can be used as either a buff for us or removal across the board and her power becomes evident. Her ultimate isn't overly relevant in this deck unlesss you choose to run one of the scaled lifedrain spells, but who cares if you get two cards every turn and can -3 an opposing creature or buff an unblocked attacker every now and again?
All lands are colorless, and thus all lands equally negate the Nocturnus ability. Swamps are black mana, but they are colorless. Only cards that have a swamp symbol in their cost are Black.