Are there variations among dot patterns within a single set, or are non-circular patterns all fakes?
While preparing to buy six Unlimited Power 9 from a friend, I researched authentication techniques. This Librarities thread revealed the circular dot clusters which can be seen using 10x magnification or a 1200 dpi scan. However, after using a 10x loupe to compare some cheap Unlimited artifacts to the Power ones, I found some interesting variations. Before I share my hypothesis about these dot pattern variations, I'd like to hear your input.
Which of the following cards are fake or real? Each image is from the same area of an Unlimited artifact. To simplify, I've grouped the dot patterns which appear similar, and highlighted examples of the patterns.
Thanks for your input!
First I'm posting the A variant, the circular dot clusters which are apparently the most authentic. The third image is a combination of A and C variants.
...being awesome with a violin doesn't mean you're awesome at writing your own songs. And writing good songs doesn't mean you're good enough at playing an instrument or singing to get a contract with a label.
Reflecting Pool: You know, technically, I *CAN* make any color of mana.
Exotic Orchard: Prove it. Do it right now.
Reflecting Pool: Well, not right now. I need some condi....
Exotic Orchard: LIES. GO DIE IN A FIRE.
Reflecting Pool:
Here are the B variants, the big circle patterns. If you look closely, you'll see circles the size of the letter "o" comprised of blue and red dots. These enclose a 12 point star of black dots, all centered around a single black dot. The patterns are beautiful, and if I were a hardcore collector, I'd value Power and other premium cards with this dot pattern even higher than others.
...being awesome with a violin doesn't mean you're awesome at writing your own songs. And writing good songs doesn't mean you're good enough at playing an instrument or singing to get a contract with a label.
Reflecting Pool: You know, technically, I *CAN* make any color of mana.
Exotic Orchard: Prove it. Do it right now.
Reflecting Pool: Well, not right now. I need some condi....
Exotic Orchard: LIES. GO DIE IN A FIRE.
Reflecting Pool:
Finally, there's the C variant which I call "stars", highlighted in the last example (Mox Sapphire). Looking closely reveals a four pointed star which looks like the Betrayers of Kamigawa set symbol. The edge of the star is black, blue and red dots, centered around a single dot which may be black, blue and/or red.
The thing that worries me is: My Unlimited Power are all the C variant. Thankfully, I also have an uncommon Throne of Bone, acquired from a different person, which is also C variant. This tells me that C is legitimate and not a sign of counterfeit. All the other uncommons I checked are A and B variant.
So what do you think? Why the variations? Are any of these counterfeit? Thanks.
...being awesome with a violin doesn't mean you're awesome at writing your own songs. And writing good songs doesn't mean you're good enough at playing an instrument or singing to get a contract with a label.
Reflecting Pool: You know, technically, I *CAN* make any color of mana.
Exotic Orchard: Prove it. Do it right now.
Reflecting Pool: Well, not right now. I need some condi....
Exotic Orchard: LIES. GO DIE IN A FIRE.
Reflecting Pool:
I could be wrong but I don't think any of these are counterfeit. The variations would show that they are from different print runs where they used different printing plates for the run.
I can't say for sure without handling the cards but those look legit from here. Any chance of a HQ scan that shows more text? Irregularities often show up around the text. If you haven't done it yet I would recommend the light test as well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Collection:
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
Thanks for the replies. The text is legitimately offset printed, not dot printed like many fakes.
The following is my conjecture about the variations:
The variations arise from changes in color registration - slightly shifting each color's dots in relation to the others.
Cards are printed with four color dots - Cyan, Yellow, Magenta and Black. Each color's dots are arranged in a grid, but each grid is rotated a different amount off center. Black is rotated 45 degrees, yellow is rotated 0 degrees, cyan is rotated about 22 degrees and magenta is rotated about -22 degrees.
Ultimately, it's incomplete to say Magic cards are printed with "dot clusters". Instead, they are printed with four color dot grids. Any cluster patterns arise when the grids are overlaid. The grids aren't always in the same position relative to each other. Variations in their registration (the position of each color relative to each other) cause different patterns including circles, stars, or the large 12-pointed wheels. One step to confirming a card's authenticity is to ensure that the four color dot grids are present in their proper rotation, optionally forming some larger patterns.
I'll just leave this thread here and hopefully it will help someone in the future.
...being awesome with a violin doesn't mean you're awesome at writing your own songs. And writing good songs doesn't mean you're good enough at playing an instrument or singing to get a contract with a label.
Reflecting Pool: You know, technically, I *CAN* make any color of mana.
Exotic Orchard: Prove it. Do it right now.
Reflecting Pool: Well, not right now. I need some condi....
Exotic Orchard: LIES. GO DIE IN A FIRE.
Reflecting Pool:
Why does it matter of a card is fake or not, if it looks just the same to the naked eye. It is the card. And will be tourney legal. Ive never seen anyone check someones deck with a scanner
Why does it matter of a card is fake or not, if it looks just the same to the naked eye. It is the card. And will be tourney legal. Ive never seen anyone check someones deck with a scanner
I don't want to spend $300 to get unlimited power to find out later it was a fake worth $15 or less.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
I don't want to spend $300 to get unlimited power to find out later it was a fake worth $15 or less.
I guessit its different when ur putting up that kind of money. I didnt know fakes existed. Are getting fakes a big thing? Or how many fakes might be out there
I guessit its different when ur putting up that kind of money. I didnt know fakes existed. Are getting fakes a big thing? Or how many fakes might be out there
I saw my first fake in early 1995. Since then I've personally encountered dozens ranging from laughable to professional. They've never been mass-produced to my knowledge but there are a lot out there. I never spend more than $50 on a card without putting it through a battery of tests to guarantee its authenticity. Last year alone that paid off 3 or 4 times.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Collection:
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
Why does it matter of a card is fake or not, if it looks just the same to the naked eye. It is the card. And will be tourney legal. Ive never seen anyone check someones deck with a scanner
Scanner, no. Jeweler's loupe and/or magnifying glass on a few suspect cards, yes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey all... I'm retired, not dead. Check out what I'm doing these days (and beg me to come back if you want):
While preparing to buy six Unlimited Power 9 from a friend, I researched authentication techniques. This Librarities thread revealed the circular dot clusters which can be seen using 10x magnification or a 1200 dpi scan. However, after using a 10x loupe to compare some cheap Unlimited artifacts to the Power ones, I found some interesting variations. Before I share my hypothesis about these dot pattern variations, I'd like to hear your input.
Which of the following cards are fake or real? Each image is from the same area of an Unlimited artifact. To simplify, I've grouped the dot patterns which appear similar, and highlighted examples of the patterns.
Thanks for your input!
First I'm posting the A variant, the circular dot clusters which are apparently the most authentic. The third image is a combination of A and C variants.
FireFox31
Validating Netdecks and Land Smackdown
FireFox31
Validating Netdecks and Land Smackdown
The thing that worries me is: My Unlimited Power are all the C variant. Thankfully, I also have an uncommon Throne of Bone, acquired from a different person, which is also C variant. This tells me that C is legitimate and not a sign of counterfeit. All the other uncommons I checked are A and B variant.
So what do you think? Why the variations? Are any of these counterfeit? Thanks.
FireFox31
Validating Netdecks and Land Smackdown
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
The following is my conjecture about the variations:
The variations arise from changes in color registration - slightly shifting each color's dots in relation to the others.
Cards are printed with four color dots - Cyan, Yellow, Magenta and Black. Each color's dots are arranged in a grid, but each grid is rotated a different amount off center. Black is rotated 45 degrees, yellow is rotated 0 degrees, cyan is rotated about 22 degrees and magenta is rotated about -22 degrees.
Ultimately, it's incomplete to say Magic cards are printed with "dot clusters". Instead, they are printed with four color dot grids. Any cluster patterns arise when the grids are overlaid. The grids aren't always in the same position relative to each other. Variations in their registration (the position of each color relative to each other) cause different patterns including circles, stars, or the large 12-pointed wheels. One step to confirming a card's authenticity is to ensure that the four color dot grids are present in their proper rotation, optionally forming some larger patterns.
I'll just leave this thread here and hopefully it will help someone in the future.
FireFox31
Validating Netdecks and Land Smackdown
I don't want to spend $300 to get unlimited power to find out later it was a fake worth $15 or less.
I guessit its different when ur putting up that kind of money. I didnt know fakes existed. Are getting fakes a big thing? Or how many fakes might be out there
I saw my first fake in early 1995. Since then I've personally encountered dozens ranging from laughable to professional. They've never been mass-produced to my knowledge but there are a lot out there. I never spend more than $50 on a card without putting it through a battery of tests to guarantee its authenticity. Last year alone that paid off 3 or 4 times.
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
Scanner, no. Jeweler's loupe and/or magnifying glass on a few suspect cards, yes.
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