Worldly Counsel1U
Instant
Domain - Look at the top X cards of your library, where X is the number of basic land types among lands you control. Put one of those cards into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
I like this card in a 3-5 color deck, what with all the shocks and such. Do you think that if a 4c or 5c control deck came about this would be playable? or is Forbidden Alchemy just better if you're playing control?
Or what about a tribal flames tempo/midrange deck? Perhaps for some card selection/digging to get through land clumps, or find what is needed to win?
I just was on cockatrice and looking through random cards and found this one to be interesting, so just wondering about your thoughts.
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Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Because of the ability to dig 5 cards deep. I'm not dumb, I know Telling Time is a card, I just want actual opinions on the card in question, not just references to other cards. How about you tell me why you think Telling Time is better, THEN ask why one would play Worldly Counsel over it.
(I'm not saying you're incorrect, I am trying to spawn discussion)
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Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
You need each basic land type in play to dig the full 5 cards. That's more effort than it's worth. Even on turn 2 without ramp, the max you can get is 4 (2 shocklands), and that's the best-case scenario - not counting stuff like land type overlaps, having basic lands/nonbasics in play - which will reduce the number of cards dug.
Telling Time is more consistent. Worldly Counsel is completely outclassed except in 4/5 color decks, and even then it's a lot of effort to get maximum value out of it.
This seems like it could be good in a five-color control deck. The only issue is that five-color control effectively doesn't exist, and by the time you have 4-5 basic land types out, you might need to be doing something more proactive than casting Impulse.
It kind of sucks that on turn 2 you have to take the 2 to play this for almost full value. What are you playing? Control? Combo? These things are good to know.
This card is not good in an aggro deck, obviously.
Worldly Counsel is completely outclassed except in 4/5 color decks, and even then it's a lot of effort to get maximum value out of it.
I think it gets outclassed even in the 4/5 color decks honestly.
I have a couple of members of my play group that each try about once a month to make a 3-5 color control deck for modern. I don't think any of them ran enough shocks to make Worldly Council seem like a good value. We have such an abundance of mana fixing in modern, if you are setting yourself up for a long game, Shockland based manabases are usually more of a liability than a benefit.
Even the most extensive shock manabases a 4/5 color control deck would use end up having ~6 shocks, ~6 fetches, and then around 12 other lands (usually without basic types). Even in that case, I am pretty sure we're talking about 3-4 cards being the most common. And that one extra card in those scenarios is no way worth the numerous times you are going to have 0-1 shock and some combination of non-typed lands.
And thats with a manabase that deals an unhealthy amount of damage to you.
Then we get to the issue that we are comparing it to telling time which, as much as I love it, is seeing just about zero play right now.
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I support WotC's goal of shaping Modern in favor of diversity.
I ran a thought experiment on my blog Modern in a Nuclear Wasteland
of an extreme case of banning 20 more cards to make sure they get everything, then scaling back where appropriate. WotC seems to be on a slowly build up approach. Both ways probably reach similar end points.
The post Gatecrash metagame is proving to be closer to the endpoint than I estimated, so its very possible that few (if any) more cards need to be banned.
In control, worldly counsel is far superior. Generally you shouldn't be casting these turn two, you should be countering their spells. Even then, just running otherwise useless ravnica lands to get the effect (as 1-ofs) is pretty darn good. Sure, you take an extra two if you're trying to search the top 4 turn 2. Then again, late game you dig deeper which increases the quality of the card substantially.
I say it's useful in a blue control deck with at least 3 colors. The problem is finding one of those decks that doesn't want delver. Basically, instants/sorceries have to be outclassed by some other kind of control element for blue control to not be delver.
I'm not sure what I think of this card. Yes, it nets you a specific card, but I'm not sure that's exactly what I want to be doing. Most other cantrips have some bonus, like they look at their hand, or mill some cards in the process. Depending on how important finding specific cards can be, it could be better. That said, it's going to be one hell of a deck to find 5, most control decks aren't more than 3 colours, despite good mana fixing. I can't see much reason to want to play this card to find specific answers, I'd rather play cheaper spells like Serum Visions.
I play a 5-color control deck that consistently hits all colors (in Shocks and Basics), but I wouldn't really run this over Desperate Ravings or Forbidden Alchemy. Alchemy will always dig 4 deep on turn 3, and puts the unwanted cards in my yard where I can get value from them (Ancient Grudge, Unburial Rites, etc.).
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Slowly breaking.
Any more of this, and Team Troll will be more than just a name.
I think other cards are better simply because Shocks hurt control really bad. And if you're playing Tribal Zoo you have Bob for CA. Same with something more Tempo-ish. You'd probably still have Bob, or would prefer Bob as your CA source / dig.
I think if we had less painful Duals like for example ABU's that like give the opponent life instead of shocking you it'd probably be a really really good choice in a control shell. But, i don't see how a 4 - 5c control deck would be viable with a land base that tries to get domain.
I think part of the advantage with this in some kind of 5Cblue deck or similar is that it scales with time: Early on, it can be a poor man's Telling Time, serving to grab whatever answer you need early. But late game, a topdecked one will be a superior Impulse, getting you an INCREDIBLE amount of card selection for a very low price. The longer the game goes, the better it is, so it could definitely have a use.
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Go to my blog, Musings of the False God, for in-depth guides playing the game, from the building blocks of deck design to deceiving your opponent through clever game play!
You may also know me as the guy in the art of Dark Confidant. No, not Bob Maher, the OTHER one.
This saw play earlier this year in Next Level Blue before U/W/R Delver became the Blue deck to play. The down side of that deck was that it had issues dealing with Boros, which was a Deck to beat in that Meta. It might be a playable deck now with the slowing down of the format continuing, but resolving Shackles is still going to be hard to do.
I have no idea how you're going to get around all of the Spell Snares that are seeing play though. Also getting this Remanded is pretty bad.
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Legacy Decks
~~~~~~~~~
Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
~~~~~~~~~
Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
This saw play earlier this year in Next Level Blue before U/W/R Delver became the Blue deck to play. The down side of that deck was that it had issues dealing with Boros, which was a Deck to beat in that Meta. It might be a playable deck now with the slowing down of the format continuing, but resolving Shackles is still going to be hard to do.
I have no idea how you're going to get around all of the Spell Snares that are seeing play though. Also getting this Remanded is pretty bad.
You don't have to get this around Spell Snare. Tapping down one of their mana end of turn for them to waste a snare on a cantripper is probably an even trade. It also gives you a higher shot of resolving something that actually DOES matter, such as Shackles Goyf, Bob, or a planeswalker.
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Find me online - I'm on Cockatrice * Tag - Badd B - Or on MTGO - Tag - Cbus05
You don't have to get this around Spell Snare. Tapping down one of their mana end of turn for them to waste a snare on a cantripper is probably an even trade. It also gives you a higher shot of resolving something that actually DOES matter, such as Shackles Goyf, Bob, or a planeswalker.
When you're digging 4-5 cards for an answer to something they are doing, it's not an even trade, in fact it's a virtual 2 for 1 against you, and huge loss of Tempo...
If you're running Bob in a 4-5 color control deck, you're doing it wrong...
That other stuff doesn't matter if your deck is relying on resolving Worldly Tutor to dig for answers and spells because you'll never get to it in the first place. I played the deck for 5 months before it became unplayable because of Spell Snare seeing extensive play, and U/W/R Delver becoming a thing. The card is really good, but it opens you up to blow outs.
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Legacy Decks
~~~~~~~~~
Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
~~~~~~~~~
Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
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Instant
Domain - Look at the top X cards of your library, where X is the number of basic land types among lands you control. Put one of those cards into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
I like this card in a 3-5 color deck, what with all the shocks and such. Do you think that if a 4c or 5c control deck came about this would be playable? or is Forbidden Alchemy just better if you're playing control?
Or what about a tribal flames tempo/midrange deck? Perhaps for some card selection/digging to get through land clumps, or find what is needed to win?
I just was on cockatrice and looking through random cards and found this one to be interesting, so just wondering about your thoughts.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Because of the ability to dig 5 cards deep. I'm not dumb, I know Telling Time is a card, I just want actual opinions on the card in question, not just references to other cards. How about you tell me why you think Telling Time is better, THEN ask why one would play Worldly Counsel over it.
(I'm not saying you're incorrect, I am trying to spawn discussion)
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
A turn 2 Worldly Counsel will probably dig 3 cards deep. A turn 2 Telling Time WILL dig 3 cards deep.
Telling Time is more consistent. Worldly Counsel is completely outclassed except in 4/5 color decks, and even then it's a lot of effort to get maximum value out of it.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
This card is not good in an aggro deck, obviously.
I think it gets outclassed even in the 4/5 color decks honestly.
I have a couple of members of my play group that each try about once a month to make a 3-5 color control deck for modern. I don't think any of them ran enough shocks to make Worldly Council seem like a good value. We have such an abundance of mana fixing in modern, if you are setting yourself up for a long game, Shockland based manabases are usually more of a liability than a benefit.
Even the most extensive shock manabases a 4/5 color control deck would use end up having ~6 shocks, ~6 fetches, and then around 12 other lands (usually without basic types). Even in that case, I am pretty sure we're talking about 3-4 cards being the most common. And that one extra card in those scenarios is no way worth the numerous times you are going to have 0-1 shock and some combination of non-typed lands.
And thats with a manabase that deals an unhealthy amount of damage to you.
Then we get to the issue that we are comparing it to telling time which, as much as I love it, is seeing just about zero play right now.
I ran a thought experiment on my blog
Modern in a Nuclear Wasteland
of an extreme case of banning 20 more cards to make sure they get everything, then scaling back where appropriate. WotC seems to be on a slowly build up approach. Both ways probably reach similar end points.
The post Gatecrash metagame is proving to be closer to the endpoint than I estimated, so its very possible that few (if any) more cards need to be banned.
I say it's useful in a blue control deck with at least 3 colors. The problem is finding one of those decks that doesn't want delver. Basically, instants/sorceries have to be outclassed by some other kind of control element for blue control to not be delver.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
It's true that being an instant offers more strategic possibilities, but having a lower mana cost wins at the end of the day. Serum Visions and Sleight of Hand are better than Worldly Counsel (or even Telling Time).
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Any more of this, and Team Troll will be more than just a name.
I know where you post.
I think if we had less painful Duals like for example ABU's that like give the opponent life instead of shocking you it'd probably be a really really good choice in a control shell. But, i don't see how a 4 - 5c control deck would be viable with a land base that tries to get domain.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
[82/360] Custom Cube
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You may also know me as the guy in the art of Dark Confidant. No, not Bob Maher, the OTHER one.
I have no idea how you're going to get around all of the Spell Snares that are seeing play though. Also getting this Remanded is pretty bad.
~~~~~~~~~
Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
~~~~~~~~~
Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
You don't have to get this around Spell Snare. Tapping down one of their mana end of turn for them to waste a snare on a cantripper is probably an even trade. It also gives you a higher shot of resolving something that actually DOES matter, such as Shackles Goyf, Bob, or a planeswalker.
When you're digging 4-5 cards for an answer to something they are doing, it's not an even trade, in fact it's a virtual 2 for 1 against you, and huge loss of Tempo...
If you're running Bob in a 4-5 color control deck, you're doing it wrong...
That other stuff doesn't matter if your deck is relying on resolving Worldly Tutor to dig for answers and spells because you'll never get to it in the first place. I played the deck for 5 months before it became unplayable because of Spell Snare seeing extensive play, and U/W/R Delver becoming a thing. The card is really good, but it opens you up to blow outs.
~~~~~~~~~
Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
~~~~~~~~~
Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg: