Bringing back this thread; what are people's thoughts on Olivia Voldaren and Falkenrath Aristocrat vs. the "traditional" RB cards? How to they compare to the Rakdos Cackler and Shred-Freak?
Rakdos Cackler is something I want in basically every aggro deck I will make, which always feature either R or B. It's my favourite R/B card.
My four are:
Cackler, Dreadbore, Redcap and Aristocrat.
Aristocrat is in many ways the perfect aggro four-drop - 4 power, evasive and hasty, and it needs your opponent to deal with all your other creatures first before it can die. It can randomly get bigger more often than you'd think.
Olivia is more midrangey but it's very good if you untap with it. She grows and takes control of the game after one activation. However, our R/B decks are usually more aggressive - Redcap and Aristocrat fit better there, and I don't need another R/B 4 drop.
I don't know what the 'traditional' R/B cards are.
I recently cut Olivia since she didn't play well in the deck RB wants to be which is aggro. Redcap and Aristocrat are better in the role. I could cut something soso like shred-freak, but that led to a a bloated 4 cmc section in the guild.
Aristocrat is a really good card. It's one of the better aggro curve-toppers out there, and the Sac outlet is valuable for BR pox/stax engine decks.
I really wanted the Shred Freak to work out, but it was ultimately too fragile, and the CC cost proved too prohibitive outside of Rakdos decks. if it were a 1 cost, I'd likely still cube it.
Bringing back this thread; what are people's thoughts on Olivia Voldaren and Falkenrath Aristocrat vs. the "traditional" RB cards? How to they compare to the Rakdos Cackler and Shred-Freak?
Both Olivia and Aristocrat have played well with the Aristocrat as another Rorix Bladewing that's cheaper and harder to kill. That might not seem too exciting, but in an aggro deck it just comes out of no where and steals games. Olivia has been good as well, but the only draw back is it's more of a six drop instead of a four drop.
Shred-Freak is just unexciting. There are other two powered hasty creatures in R/B that are just so much better (Ash Zealot, Bloodghast, and Hellspart Elemental are some that come to mind), and give you more advantage.
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I run Olivia over aristocrat and blightning. She is not for every cube, she plays as a finisher in midrange and control and has almost no use in the typical aggro deck.
I would probably never first pick another rakdos card, but I'd first pick Olivia over almost anything. The reason I keep her in cube is because she is a powerhouse in the decks that run her. I run Nicol Bolas and broodmate dragon for grixis and jund, and Olivia pushes me into those decks harder than either of those cards could dream of doing. She stops your opponent dead until they answer her and she makes a fantastic 6 drop play with her ability mana up.
About Bit Blast... As the discussion of Aristocrat vs Olivia illustrates, BR is usually an aggro color combination. Bit Blast has a cmc of 5, which is probably outside the BCS of curve toppers for aggro decks. Now I know you often end up with the less than perfect card pool and you may have to play cards that fall outside the main plan of a deck, but Bit Blast seems really unwieldy. I played a B/R deck the last draft we ran and while I initially used Bit Blast I quickly realized that the games against other aggro decks were almost always decided before Bit Blast came online, and that it usually could not answer the heavy drops of the ramp/control decks. It's easy to see the power/value of what it does, but is it what B/R wants to do? I'm considering Blazing Spectre as a possible replacement. Right now I run:
Dreadbore
Terminate
Aristocrat
Redcap
Cackler
Shred Freak
Blightning
Bit Blast
I'm not a fan of classifying Cackler as a B/R card; I don't want to punish B/R by giving it one fewer slot for including a card that would be perfectly cube-worthy if it could only be played with one of B and R.
I take the opposite view - I'm losing a more narrow gold card for a card that is more versatile than either a mono-black or mono-red card. I see that as a bonus rather than a 'punishment'.
@ Ultimateer: Even though Bit Blast doesn't fit an aggro Rakdos shell, it's a great card for Rakdos midrange and control decks, and it's also fun, exciting and powerful. I prefer it to one of the lower tier Rakdos aggro support cards.
I take the opposite view - I'm losing a more narrow gold card for a card that is more versatile than either a mono-black or mono-red card. I see that as a bonus rather than a 'punishment'.
Absolutely. Replacing gold cards with hybrid cards actually increases the number of playable spells in the cube.
It still increases the playability more to change a gold card to a hybrid than it does to change a mono-colored card to a hybrid. (10% -> 70% vs 40% -> 70%)
You can see how much mileage you can get out of that. Our cardpools are completely different but I know it works out perfectly for me, thanks to some serendipity.
EDIT: Wow which is essentially what Zulo said
EDIT: Not quite
[QUOTE=wtwlf123;/comments/4507868]@ Ultimateer: Even though Bit Blast doesn't fit an aggro Rakdos shell, it's a great card for Rakdos midrange and control decks, and it's also fun, exciting and powerful. I prefer it to one of the lower tier Rakdos aggro support cards.
QUOTE]
So you'd rather a card that gets played less often, but when it does it get played in the right deck is an all star to a card that would get main decked more often but not be as powerful in a vacuum? As you can see I have a liberal guild section, but having it be a dead card so often last draft has given me pause.
@Goodking- I agree completely! I embrace my larger than usual guild sections precisely because I weigh castability as well as raw power. Having a signet or keyrune as well as hybrids or off color flashbacks makes the cards in the guild pool less likely to be the last picks routinely.
At first, I was having this problem, too. But as I shifted my cube to support aggro more, I can totally see why it's popular. There are tons of creatures in cube with 1 and 2 toughness. Being able to ping those creature and being a creature itself (means blink/reanimate abuse as well as equipment carrier) is totally sick.
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Void is harder to control; there's plenty of times you'll be forced to nail something of your own when you cast it. I also found there were times I couldn't get all the stuff that was bothering me due to different casting costs.
I still like Void; it's just got a lot more competition than it used to. I have one great Void story. My opponent played and equipped Umezawa's Jitte to a Soltari Priest. He had a Qasali Pridemage hanging back, exalting stuff. So I took damage, Jitte got counters, and I made a sad face. My turn. I draw Void. Cast it for 2. Opponent loses his board and the Balance in his hand. I go on to win that one.
Question for the bit blast players: why do you run it over void?
Both seem to fit the same deck, what makes bit blast better for you?
Well, I do used to run Bit Blast over void. Cascade is one of my top favorite mechanic ever. It's just really fun, although I'm sure Wizards might disagree. Not to mention instant removal is pretty solid in itself.
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My four are:
Cackler, Dreadbore, Redcap and Aristocrat.
Aristocrat is in many ways the perfect aggro four-drop - 4 power, evasive and hasty, and it needs your opponent to deal with all your other creatures first before it can die. It can randomly get bigger more often than you'd think.
Olivia is more midrangey but it's very good if you untap with it. She grows and takes control of the game after one activation. However, our R/B decks are usually more aggressive - Redcap and Aristocrat fit better there, and I don't need another R/B 4 drop.
I don't know what the 'traditional' R/B cards are.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
360 Uncommons only Cube!
I really wanted the Shred Freak to work out, but it was ultimately too fragile, and the CC cost proved too prohibitive outside of Rakdos decks. if it were a 1 cost, I'd likely still cube it.
My current ranking is:
1. Rakdos Cackler
2. Dreadbore
3. Murderous Redcap
4. Falkenrath Aristocrat
5. Bituminous Blast
6. Olivia Voldaren
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Both Olivia and Aristocrat have played well with the Aristocrat as another Rorix Bladewing that's cheaper and harder to kill. That might not seem too exciting, but in an aggro deck it just comes out of no where and steals games. Olivia has been good as well, but the only draw back is it's more of a six drop instead of a four drop.
Shred-Freak is just unexciting. There are other two powered hasty creatures in R/B that are just so much better (Ash Zealot, Bloodghast, and Hellspart Elemental are some that come to mind), and give you more advantage.
Shred-Freak will likely get cut soon. I should bring back Bit Blast.
Cheers,
rant
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I would probably never first pick another rakdos card, but I'd first pick Olivia over almost anything. The reason I keep her in cube is because she is a powerhouse in the decks that run her. I run Nicol Bolas and broodmate dragon for grixis and jund, and Olivia pushes me into those decks harder than either of those cards could dream of doing. She stops your opponent dead until they answer her and she makes a fantastic 6 drop play with her ability mana up.
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Dreadbore
Terminate
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Blightning
Bit Blast
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/993
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/23690
I take the opposite view - I'm losing a more narrow gold card for a card that is more versatile than either a mono-black or mono-red card. I see that as a bonus rather than a 'punishment'.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Absolutely. Replacing gold cards with hybrid cards actually increases the number of playable spells in the cube.
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=9641734&highlight=#post9641734
You can see how much mileage you can get out of that. Our cardpools are completely different but I know it works out perfectly for me, thanks to some serendipity.
EDIT: Wow which is essentially what Zulo said
EDIT: Not quite
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QUOTE]
So you'd rather a card that gets played less often, but when it does it get played in the right deck is an all star to a card that would get main decked more often but not be as powerful in a vacuum? As you can see I have a liberal guild section, but having it be a dead card so often last draft has given me pause.
@Goodking- I agree completely! I embrace my larger than usual guild sections precisely because I weigh castability as well as raw power. Having a signet or keyrune as well as hybrids or off color flashbacks makes the cards in the guild pool less likely to be the last picks routinely.
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At first, I was having this problem, too. But as I shifted my cube to support aggro more, I can totally see why it's popular. There are tons of creatures in cube with 1 and 2 toughness. Being able to ping those creature and being a creature itself (means blink/reanimate abuse as well as equipment carrier) is totally sick.
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Both seem to fit the same deck, what makes bit blast better for you?
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Void does seem like a comparable replacement tho.
360 Uncommons only Cube!
I still like Void; it's just got a lot more competition than it used to. I have one great Void story. My opponent played and equipped Umezawa's Jitte to a Soltari Priest. He had a Qasali Pridemage hanging back, exalting stuff. So I took damage, Jitte got counters, and I made a sad face. My turn. I draw Void. Cast it for 2. Opponent loses his board and the Balance in his hand. I go on to win that one.
Cheers,
rant
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It was the opposite when Bit Blast was released.
"Now I can replace Void!"
(Because it is slow and not that exciting while Bit Blast is those things)
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It's an instant, and it can create threats, and the combat step blow-out potential leads to more CA on average.
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Well, I do used to run Bit Blast over void. Cascade is one of my top favorite mechanic ever. It's just really fun, although I'm sure Wizards might disagree. Not to mention instant removal is pretty solid in itself.
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