I play kird ape because he's part of the critical mass of 1 drops you need for aggro. The green 4 drops are all good (huntsmaster, sarkhan, bloodbraid). But I would run kird ape as my second R/G card after bloodbraid elf, you need 1 drops for aggro. Even if you don't support green 1 drops in aggro you can certainly still play R/G aggro, and kird ape is house in those decks.
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RG only has 3 good cards, all of which cost 4 mana, which is already a very crowded slot in R+G.
Only few players want to run all 3 of them (especially at a lower cube size) and in the vacuum Kird Ape just was the most powerful card for that low - at least pre-M13.
The ape is one of the gold cards that I want to cut the most and it only came back for one of the players in my group, who is keen on drafting some Big Zoo variants.
I agree in wanting to cut ape, but at the same time, you can't have the cube be nothing but midrange. You need a variety of possible decks/styles. I agree with others that it's necessary to run Ape.
I hate Sarkhan Vol with a passion. He's just awful. Total waste of flavor and a card slot. I have been pleased with Bloodbraid (best RG card by far) and am generally happy with Huntmaster. I think RTR block will introduce well-needed refreshers to a color combo/guild that's rather stale. Mr. Tickles and Mr. Slum. Stormbind is "okay" -- nothing to really write home about. Most of the time it's pointless and you draft it just because....but once in a blue moon it actually does something special.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I'm kinda surprised to not see Kessig Wolf Run anywhere on this page. Is it just bad in cube? My thinking is it would provide a nice bit of reach and a mana sink for green's ramp.
Wolf Run is good, it's just a bit slow. I play a lot of aggro in RG, and I rarely ever even want to reach 5 mana. If all you play is RG mid-range, it's good, but so are the other RG options. I'd much rather run Huntmaster for my RG mid-range/control slot, for example.
Kird Ape is a classic and probably will never leave my cube. Even when I am playing a midrangy jund deck I like to have a nice curve. There are many time that the Ape just walls up the ground agaist almost all one drop ever printed. And surviving a pyroclasm is great for a cheap red creature. How many cubeable red creatures < 4 CMC have 3+ toughness. Not many.
Huntmaster has the capcity to take over games and is a great stabilizer. Elf needs no discussion. Stormbind can be 10 shocks to the dome. The Flinthoof boar I think is underated and can be a presense on defense against weenie or on the beatdown. He make a good 3 drop if you are on a heavy red aggro plan. But alas I think he and stormbind will go if we get some decent gruul in the next set.
I like the cards I and playing and they all go in the smae deck which is nice if you get them, but that is kind of the problem. I would like more G/R cards to be give different deck types a boost.
I've been beyond pleased with Huntmaster of the Fells and have it just behind Bloodbraid. Not quite as good as Bloodbraid but head and shoulders above everything else in R/G.
In 360 I have bloodbraid, huntmaster, and kird ape. After a year of cubing, I don't think I've ever seen kird ape do anything (though I have taken out some of the other smaller aggro creatures such as jackal pup/wild dogs/etc. that go with him, maybe I should build up support for that again). I've been wanting to take him out for a long time, but I keep hoping to see him work. I'm certain he'll be gone when gatecrash is released.
I'm certain he'll be gone when gatecrash is released.
I think Kird Ape will get better when Gatecrash comes out. All that combination needs is 1-2 more good aggressive Gruul support cards and the deck will want all the support it can get.
Loam Lion got better with Dryad Militant; I think Kird Ape will get better with the other good stuff from Gatecrash coming in.
I'm sure it could go either way, really. Like I said, I don't have much support for green or r/g aggro, green itself much more midrange or ramp in my cube. I only run 360 and usually only draft with 1 other person, so archetypes are somewhat limited.
I could switch back to having green/gruul aggro being prevelent and enhance it even further with Gatecrash cards, or remove the remaining cards from the archetype and support midrange more.
I think Kird Ape will get better when Gatecrash comes out. All that combination needs is 1-2 more good aggressive Gruul support cards and the deck will want all the support it can get.
Loam Lion got better with Dryad Militant; I think Kird Ape will get better with the other good stuff from Gatecrash coming in.
That makes sense. However, there's still the possibility that he will improve, but still get outclassed by a couple cards from Gatecrash.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
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I'm running the trio of Kird Ape, BBE and Sarkhan Vol, and all three have been really excellent. I already have Huntmaster just missing the cut, and it'll be interesting to see what GTC brings to the table. Kird Ape is probably the weakest in practice owing to green's role as a splash colour rather than a primary one in aggro. But he's still great and fairly often a 2/3 for 1, and red lacks great one drops so he fills a more important role than Loam Lion.
FWIW, I found Huntmaster too fair for 330. 2 2/2s and 2 life for 4 is not the best deal ever, and I can't guarantee his flip.
In 360 I have bloodbraid, huntmaster, and kird ape. After a year of cubing, I don't think I've ever seen kird ape do anything (though I have taken out some of the other smaller aggro creatures such as jackal pup/wild dogs/etc. that go with him, maybe I should build up support for that again). I've been wanting to take him out for a long time, but I keep hoping to see him work. I'm certain he'll be gone when gatecrash is released.
Kird Ape has been pretty craptastic for a long time. I benched it sometime last year. I am hopeful that a new cycle of Gruul aggro cards will revitalize the little ape.
I want to point out that Kird Ape is excellent here. A relatively high pick, because we support Gruul aggro. Craptastic is the last word I would use to describe it.
I want to point out that Kird Ape is excellent here. A relatively high pick, because we support Gruul aggro. Craptastic is the last word I would use to describe it.
The groups I run with have come to the same conclusion. I'm not just going against the grain here, G/R is not exactly burning up the draft tables for us. All we need is a couple G/R cards like B/R and W/G got this time around to convince me to bring him back.
You and I didn't agree on Loam Lion, so I doubt we'll agree on the Ape. Not trying to cut the conversation short, just pointing out that I am willing to concede he is good in other lists, but I am unlikely to draft him in an unknown list.
I think Kird Ape is a staple if you support green aggro and very expendable otherwise.
Also slightly off topic I wouldn't be too sure that kird ape will improve in Gatecrash with boros being in the set they will probably want to avoid red having two aggressive red mechanics in one set for diversity in draft. I'd guess that Gruul will get a reasonably midrangy mechanic.
I think Kird Ape is a staple if you support green aggro and very expendable otherwise.
Also slightly off topic I wouldn't be too sure that kird ape will improve in Gatecrash with boros being in the set they will probably want to avoid red having two aggressive red mechanics in one set for diversity in draft. I'd guess that Gruul will get a reasonably midrangy mechanic.
They gave azorious temp, rakdos aggro, golgari midrange, selesnya midrange, and izzet midrange/control. I don't see how they can't give gruul and boros aggressive themes.
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Just another opinion on Kird Ape here. Background so you understand where I'm coming from, since it's not the same place as wtwlf. Every green 1 drop in my cube taps for mana. I don't run the typical "green aggro" cards that you think of. However, R/g aggro is very much a thing. It's usually a lot of burn with green for the occasional fatty or unique spell (Rancor, Tarmogoyf, Sylvan Library) as well as the excellent R/G cards like Kird Ape or Bloodbraid Elf. Kird Ape is a good card in that deck.
On the other hand, I don't run Loam Lion. I don't find that W/g aggro is a thing. If my white aggro deck is splashing, it's red or black, or hopefully soon blue (as I'm about to start pushing tempo). It's very rarely green. If white and green are playing together, it's usually a ramp strategy, not an aggro strategy.
My point, then, is that Kird Ape can be good while Loam Lion is not. It's all about examining what the colors want to do.
Exactly what jeffderek said, my R/G aggro decks are usually a splash of green, so the fact that kird ape is based in red makes him that much more playable. While I just got rid of loam lion because W/G aggro is something I've put on the back burner to try the midrangey strategies some people are saying they're having success with.
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I agree in wanting to cut ape, but at the same time, you can't have the cube be nothing but midrange. You need a variety of possible decks/styles. I agree with others that it's necessary to run Ape.
I hate Sarkhan Vol with a passion. He's just awful. Total waste of flavor and a card slot. I have been pleased with Bloodbraid (best RG card by far) and am generally happy with Huntmaster. I think RTR block will introduce well-needed refreshers to a color combo/guild that's rather stale. Mr. Tickles and Mr. Slum. Stormbind is "okay" -- nothing to really write home about. Most of the time it's pointless and you draft it just because....but once in a blue moon it actually does something special.
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For reference I run Kessig Wolf Run, Sarkhan Vol and Bloodbraid Elf. I don't support green aggro, much more ramp and mid range stuff.
Thoughts are appreciated.
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Huntmaster has the capcity to take over games and is a great stabilizer. Elf needs no discussion. Stormbind can be 10 shocks to the dome. The Flinthoof boar I think is underated and can be a presense on defense against weenie or on the beatdown. He make a good 3 drop if you are on a heavy red aggro plan. But alas I think he and stormbind will go if we get some decent gruul in the next set.
I like the cards I and playing and they all go in the smae deck which is nice if you get them, but that is kind of the problem. I would like more G/R cards to be give different deck types a boost.
It's not the best card by a stretch, but it does provide reach and evasion all in a much more convenient package.
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I think Kird Ape will get better when Gatecrash comes out. All that combination needs is 1-2 more good aggressive Gruul support cards and the deck will want all the support it can get.
Loam Lion got better with Dryad Militant; I think Kird Ape will get better with the other good stuff from Gatecrash coming in.
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I could switch back to having green/gruul aggro being prevelent and enhance it even further with Gatecrash cards, or remove the remaining cards from the archetype and support midrange more.
That makes sense. However, there's still the possibility that he will improve, but still get outclassed by a couple cards from Gatecrash.
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Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
FWIW, I found Huntmaster too fair for 330. 2 2/2s and 2 life for 4 is not the best deal ever, and I can't guarantee his flip.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I highly doubt they'll print anything better for Gruul aggro than a 1-mana 2/3.
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You and I didn't agree on Loam Lion, so I doubt we'll agree on the Ape. Not trying to cut the conversation short, just pointing out that I am willing to concede he is good in other lists, but I am unlikely to draft him in an unknown list.
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Also slightly off topic I wouldn't be too sure that kird ape will improve in Gatecrash with boros being in the set they will probably want to avoid red having two aggressive red mechanics in one set for diversity in draft. I'd guess that Gruul will get a reasonably midrangy mechanic.
They gave azorious temp, rakdos aggro, golgari midrange, selesnya midrange, and izzet midrange/control. I don't see how they can't give gruul and boros aggressive themes.
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On the other hand, I don't run Loam Lion. I don't find that W/g aggro is a thing. If my white aggro deck is splashing, it's red or black, or hopefully soon blue (as I'm about to start pushing tempo). It's very rarely green. If white and green are playing together, it's usually a ramp strategy, not an aggro strategy.
My point, then, is that Kird Ape can be good while Loam Lion is not. It's all about examining what the colors want to do.
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