I think the price tag keeps it away from modern. Why drop $55 on a card you dont really need.
Keep in mind that we haven't really even seen pros use it much, and they don't have any problem spending an extra $1000 or two making their deck optimal.
Keep in mind that we haven't really even seen pros use it much, and they don't have any problem spending an extra $1000 or two making their deck optimal.
Still $55 on a card with little reputation in a format will keep allot of people away. Also maybe because its a big mana investment, and considered a "noob" card because its only blind luck.
Considering you can use Banefire or something like that to finish an opponent the only real goodness is that of a sweeper. It would go good in Jund, but its bad off of Bloodbraid.
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Still $55 on a card with little reputation in a format will keep allot of people away. Also maybe because its a big mana investment, and considered a "noob" card because its only blind luck.
Then why is it played in Standard so heavily that it warrants a 55$ price tag?
it's a good card, you don't need 'blind luck' to make it work; Harcaster at X=2 it Wraths away Delver, Geist, Lynx (no fetch available), Lavamancer. Basically all of UWR's board for 5 mana, and you get a shock to their face and your creatures are left in tact.
I think if it's pricetag were what's keeping it away from Modern than you'd see a significantly less number RUG-Delver / Jund decks. Price isn't really going to dictate a Meta, ever. It might dictate your FNM Meta but it will never dictate an SCG and higher event.
What's keeping away from Modern is probably that it doesn't really fit into any decks right now. I could see it used in UWR or RUG Delvers, but those lists are tight as is, and with SCM you don't really need more removal.
Then why is it played in Standard so heavily that it warrants a 55$ price tag?
it's a good card, you don't need 'blind luck' to make it work; Harcaster at X=2 it Wraths away Delver, Geist, Lynx (no fetch available), Lavamancer. Basically all of UWR's board for 5 mana, and you get a shock to their face and your creatures are left in tact.
I think if it's pricetag were what's keeping it away from Modern than you'd see a significantly less number RUG-Delver / Jund decks. Price isn't really going to dictate a Meta, ever. It might dictate your FNM Meta but it will never dictate an SCG and higher event.
What's keeping away from Modern is probably that it doesn't really fit into any decks right now. I could see it used in UWR or RUG Delvers, but those lists are tight as is, and with SCM you don't really need more removal.
Standard is all new players. So bonefire fits in just fine. And with the lack of good cards, Bonefire is a must have.
Standard is all new players. So bonefire fits in just fine. And with the lack of good cards, Bonefire is a must have.
bonefire sounds scary... what's that??
Also, I think you might have been misinformed if someone told you Standard is all new players. A large percentage of Standard players have been playing for many years, and it is actually the most professional format.
As for bonfire in Standard vs. Modern; the only real difference I can see is that Modern is faster so unless you are tron you don't really get as much mana as standard.
However, I do think it is underplayed in Modern. It can be a pretty powerful sweeper, even at it's normal cost, for control decks.
Also, I think you might have been misinformed if someone told you Standard is all new players. A large percentage of Standard players have been playing for many years, and it is actually the most professional format.
As for bonfire in Standard vs. Modern; the only real difference I can see is that Modern is faster so unless you are tron you don't really get as much mana as standard.
However, I do think it is underplayed in Modern. It can be a pretty powerful sweeper, even at it's normal cost, for control decks.
Lol, life without spellcheck is hard. I really tried to play standard but it feels too new to me. I have to explain what unsommon does. People need to read half of my cards. Its a mess at fnm. I think combo decks keep standards big bombs out. With out combo modern could become "my creature is much bigger then yours" just like the current standard. Bonfiring a second sunrise deck is pretty useless.
I can't say that I like this card in Modern. The reason a card like this is good in Standard is because of midrange decks. Decks that play creatures with toughness 3-5 is what this card is good at killing. You don't often top it for 10, and you sometimes play it from your hand on turn 8 for 3. Honestly, this format isn't at a place where you can afford to do any of that.
First off, most of the format consists of cheap creatures, or decks without creatures. When you want an answer to those x/1s or x/2s, you've got better answers, like Pyroclasm and Volcanic Fallout. You're not going to want to take your chances with Bonfire, because when you really want to kill their Delver and Geist on turn 3 that they tapped out for, you're going to have to draw the Bonfire, instead of just casting it from hand.
And like others have, and will point out, the deck manipulation is bad. Without a good card like Ponder, you're really stuck trying to fish. All we have is Serum Visions, so you're just hoping it's in the top two most of the time, which isn't exactly my idea of good odds. The two biggest spell fetching cards, Mystical Teachings and Gifts Ungiven, put the card directly into hand.
Another part that makes this card bad, and I can't stress it enough, is that you have to play around a ton of counters and just get screwed sometimes. It's easy to play around Mana Leak in Standard, and honestly, not that many people are playing Dissipates right now, they're mostly SB cards. When you top a Bonfire and leave 3 open to respect Mana Leak, that's fine. But in Modern, when your opponent has Mana Leak + Spell Pierce, or double Pierce, or Cryptic Command, or even Deprive, well, you're not winning with this card. You can make this argument about a lot of cards, but this is one where you almost always want to just tap out, and it represents a significantly higher damage output to tap out.
The BIGGEST reason this card is lackluster is that there are so many decks this card is just bad again. Like I pointed out how Standard is all midrange aggro decks, this card doesn't do it against control. Yeah, neither would your Pyroclasm, but not many decks are playing Pyroclasm anymore. To add in a card that basically does nothing to some people isn't exactly my idea of winning. It often represents a card that, in an opening hand, is completely dead. Bolt isn't exactly good against Storm, but it's certainly better than Bonfire.
I expect the USA Delver deck to experiment with this card at some point, though I highly doubt it'll make headroom. It doesn't combo well with Snapcaster, which is a real shame.
The card is too slow for modern. Miracling it is unreliable at best with the library manipulation in modern, against decks like jund even miracling it you won't be able to kill goyf. Without miracle it is pretty much useless as once you have 5 mana against delver you are probably winning anyway. Once you have 5 mana you could also just be winning the game with Gifts Ungiven, Mystical Teachings, Through the Breach, etc.
One more point- most decks in standard play a large number of creatures, in modern bonfire is dead against a large number of archtypes such as storm.
The bad interaction with snapcaster mage is just the nail in the coffin. Just stick to pyroclasm.
Standard is a slower format then Modern. Standard gets ponder to set up nice miracles. Not as many ..ooops I win.. moments in Modern as there are in Standard.
I dont see this being played too heavy in Modern. Tho it is a solid card.
Standard is a format that's almost entirely based off small mid-rangey 1-3 toughness creatures right now. It's no surprise it's good in THAT format.
It's not a bad card, but it's not great either, especially when you're risking playing it right into a Remand. Hardcasting it for any value is pretty unrealistic as well, as 5 mana pyroclasms are unplayable in modern, even if they're one sided.
I think it can be a decent sideboard addition to aggro decks that want the ability to pyroclasm their opponent, but outside that, it's not really worthwhile.
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I do not think this is a very good card in Tron. Tron needs sweepers really early, before it gets online. For this purpose, Bonfire is no good, as Tron won't have much mana, and may need to plan ahead to access red mana (through Chromatic Sphere/Star). So, early on, Pyroclasm and Firespout are better.
And, as a finisher, Bonfire is worthless to Tron. It would take 21 mana to win, if you can Miracle it, and infinite mana if you can't miracle it. Given that Tron is unlikely to be dealing incremental damage along the way, this is infeasible, and Banefire would be much better, but still not nearly as good as the Emrakul/Wurmcoil/Karn package.
Thus, Bonfire is not good for RG Tron, in my opinion. However, I have seen Bonfire used as a 2-of in some RUG Delver lists online that have achieved success. I haven't played that deck, so I don't feel qualified to comment on it, but it has managed to 4-0 at times.
(As for price, I don't think that is a reason Bonfire doesn't seem play--I play RG Tron all the time online, and I own a playset of Bonfires online. The reason Bonfire isn't in my list is, as above, because it isn't good in that list.)
I'm just going to echo the sentiments thus far. Volcanic Fallout, Pyroclasm, and perhaps Slagstorm and Flamebreak are just going to be better and far more reliable options for sweepers, since there's no Ponder or Preordain to set it up.
Also, there are too many decks that are trying to win on an axis other than creatures swinging into the red zone (see: Storm Combo, Kiki-Jiki combos that are going to win the same turn they drop their finisher, Tron - Emrakul laughs at your puny bonfire).
Not unplayable, but not reliable enough.
Rating: 1.5/5.
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Keep in mind that we haven't really even seen pros use it much, and they don't have any problem spending an extra $1000 or two making their deck optimal.
Still $55 on a card with little reputation in a format will keep allot of people away. Also maybe because its a big mana investment, and considered a "noob" card because its only blind luck.
Then why is it played in Standard so heavily that it warrants a 55$ price tag?
it's a good card, you don't need 'blind luck' to make it work; Harcaster at X=2 it Wraths away Delver, Geist, Lynx (no fetch available), Lavamancer. Basically all of UWR's board for 5 mana, and you get a shock to their face and your creatures are left in tact.
I think if it's pricetag were what's keeping it away from Modern than you'd see a significantly less number RUG-Delver / Jund decks. Price isn't really going to dictate a Meta, ever. It might dictate your FNM Meta but it will never dictate an SCG and higher event.
What's keeping away from Modern is probably that it doesn't really fit into any decks right now. I could see it used in UWR or RUG Delvers, but those lists are tight as is, and with SCM you don't really need more removal.
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Standard is all new players. So bonefire fits in just fine. And with the lack of good cards, Bonefire is a must have.
bonefire sounds scary... what's that??
Also, I think you might have been misinformed if someone told you Standard is all new players. A large percentage of Standard players have been playing for many years, and it is actually the most professional format.
As for bonfire in Standard vs. Modern; the only real difference I can see is that Modern is faster so unless you are tron you don't really get as much mana as standard.
However, I do think it is underplayed in Modern. It can be a pretty powerful sweeper, even at it's normal cost, for control decks.
Lol, life without spellcheck is hard. I really tried to play standard but it feels too new to me. I have to explain what unsommon does. People need to read half of my cards. Its a mess at fnm. I think combo decks keep standards big bombs out. With out combo modern could become "my creature is much bigger then yours" just like the current standard. Bonfiring a second sunrise deck is pretty useless.
I'll certainly be sleeving a few up myself when I come back full-time.
First off, most of the format consists of cheap creatures, or decks without creatures. When you want an answer to those x/1s or x/2s, you've got better answers, like Pyroclasm and Volcanic Fallout. You're not going to want to take your chances with Bonfire, because when you really want to kill their Delver and Geist on turn 3 that they tapped out for, you're going to have to draw the Bonfire, instead of just casting it from hand.
And like others have, and will point out, the deck manipulation is bad. Without a good card like Ponder, you're really stuck trying to fish. All we have is Serum Visions, so you're just hoping it's in the top two most of the time, which isn't exactly my idea of good odds. The two biggest spell fetching cards, Mystical Teachings and Gifts Ungiven, put the card directly into hand.
Another part that makes this card bad, and I can't stress it enough, is that you have to play around a ton of counters and just get screwed sometimes. It's easy to play around Mana Leak in Standard, and honestly, not that many people are playing Dissipates right now, they're mostly SB cards. When you top a Bonfire and leave 3 open to respect Mana Leak, that's fine. But in Modern, when your opponent has Mana Leak + Spell Pierce, or double Pierce, or Cryptic Command, or even Deprive, well, you're not winning with this card. You can make this argument about a lot of cards, but this is one where you almost always want to just tap out, and it represents a significantly higher damage output to tap out.
The BIGGEST reason this card is lackluster is that there are so many decks this card is just bad again. Like I pointed out how Standard is all midrange aggro decks, this card doesn't do it against control. Yeah, neither would your Pyroclasm, but not many decks are playing Pyroclasm anymore. To add in a card that basically does nothing to some people isn't exactly my idea of winning. It often represents a card that, in an opening hand, is completely dead. Bolt isn't exactly good against Storm, but it's certainly better than Bonfire.
I expect the USA Delver deck to experiment with this card at some point, though I highly doubt it'll make headroom. It doesn't combo well with Snapcaster, which is a real shame.
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One more point- most decks in standard play a large number of creatures, in modern bonfire is dead against a large number of archtypes such as storm.
The bad interaction with snapcaster mage is just the nail in the coffin. Just stick to pyroclasm.
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I dont see this being played too heavy in Modern. Tho it is a solid card.
Is it worth 40$+? Absolutely not! That's why I choose to play modern instead of overpriced standard. More fun (i.e. diversity) for less $, I'm in!
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It's not a bad card, but it's not great either, especially when you're risking playing it right into a Remand. Hardcasting it for any value is pretty unrealistic as well, as 5 mana pyroclasms are unplayable in modern, even if they're one sided.
I think it can be a decent sideboard addition to aggro decks that want the ability to pyroclasm their opponent, but outside that, it's not really worthwhile.
Later in the game, if Tron wants a sweeper, Oblivion Stone is better, as it will hit a million pesky cards like Pyromancer Ascension, Birthing Pod, Aether Vial, Cranial Plating, and others.
And, as a finisher, Bonfire is worthless to Tron. It would take 21 mana to win, if you can Miracle it, and infinite mana if you can't miracle it. Given that Tron is unlikely to be dealing incremental damage along the way, this is infeasible, and Banefire would be much better, but still not nearly as good as the Emrakul/Wurmcoil/Karn package.
Thus, Bonfire is not good for RG Tron, in my opinion. However, I have seen Bonfire used as a 2-of in some RUG Delver lists online that have achieved success. I haven't played that deck, so I don't feel qualified to comment on it, but it has managed to 4-0 at times.
(As for price, I don't think that is a reason Bonfire doesn't seem play--I play RG Tron all the time online, and I own a playset of Bonfires online. The reason Bonfire isn't in my list is, as above, because it isn't good in that list.)
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Also, there are too many decks that are trying to win on an axis other than creatures swinging into the red zone (see: Storm Combo, Kiki-Jiki combos that are going to win the same turn they drop their finisher, Tron - Emrakul laughs at your puny bonfire).
Not unplayable, but not reliable enough.
Rating: 1.5/5.
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Modern:
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Legacy:
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