I just wanted to make this thread to make sure that you do NOT buy these sleeves. They are absolutely terrible!
From my understanding the creators of these sleeves hold a patent for the curved corners so it will be a while before anyone else releases similar sleeves. You would think that there would be some research and development before something gets released but apparently not. They were released on August 26th, 2012 by RFG with their primary distributor being HiddenSupplies.
EDIT: Here are some pictures (6 Pictures inside)
Pen shows where the seam ends.
Sorry this is the best picture I could get of the split with my 10+ year old 5MP camera. If anything, the fact that you can see the split with such a bad camera should be a testament to how bad these sleeves are.
Translucent sleeve...
Heres a very heavily played Tropical Island that can be played if the sleeve is opaque (i.e. not see through at all). Edit: I just realized you can also see the splitting on the bottom left corner of the left-most sleeve.
Within 5 GAMES (not days, GAMES) the sleeves already started to split apart. Just by lightly shuffling the cards, the edge of the cards would catch the seams of other cards causing the clear part of the sleeve to split from the orange backing. Further shuffling caused the half-separated clear front to eventually completely break off from the orange backing (i.e. completely split from the orange backing). From 1 day of use in a tournament, these sleeves were already unplayable; some had gaping holes in the seams.
(Seams)
If you've never tried breaking a seam on a regular Ultra-Pro or Dragon Shield sleeves, try it next time you have a sleeve that you don't want. You'll find that its INCREDIBLY difficult to break the seam, even when tearing at the top (opening) of the sleeve. These sleeves on the other hand, feel like you're unzipping a Zip-Loc bag when tearing the seam. The amount of force that is required to destroy the seam is ridiculous; I would estimate it takes around 2lbs of force to tear the seam apart.
(Back)
The orange backing of the sleeves feel fairly durable and have a texture similar to Ultra Pro Pro-Matte sleeves but are extremely translucent. Any noticeable dings on the back of a card will clearly show through the back of the sleeve. The orange backing is a very very slight upgrade from clear sleeves.
(Front)
The front is akin to front of Dragonshields in that they're very smooth and glossy. The fronts of these RFG sleeves feel slightly sticky straight out of the packaging and therefore makes shuffling these sleeves incredibly hard to do. I would compare trying to shuffle these sleeves to worn out dragonshields that have been used without a mat and dirty hands. Also while attempting to rip these sleeves I also realized that the clear plastic front is EXTREMELY brittle. Any force that was applied anywhere else but next to the seams easily caused the plastic to crack as opposed to Dragonshield and Ultra Pro sleeves which will stretch a LOT before they tear.
(Seam Bond)
The seams on these sleeves are also not fully sealed. It looks like they've bonded the orange backing and clear plastic front by poking them together with a hot needle in a zig zag motion to make it look like the two parts were sewn together (they call this their "unique micro-zip outer seam"). This also means that there is a considerable amount of space taken up by the seams on the sides and bottom of the sleeve.
(Improper Design)
Due to the curved nature of these sleeves, they are slightly taller than regular sleeves in order to accommodate for the curved top of the sleeve which would otherwise leave the card hanging outside of the sleeve. The problem with this is that, although they took this into consideration, they still did not design the sleeves to be deep enough. The curved opening means that the end of the seam sits lower than the top of the sleeve. This leaves a 2-3mm 'flap' at the top of the card where the orange backing and plastic front are not bonded together. So although the card is completely enclosed by the sleeve, part of the card is still vulnerable to being damaged. This is only an issue because the sleeve was still not made deep enough which leaves an approximate 1mm gap between the top of the sleeve and a card in the sleeve.
(Air Pockets)
The sleeves also seem to hold a large amount of air in them after a card has been inserted into them. Imagine a double-sleeved deck that hasn't had the air pushed out of the sleeves; these make your deck feel exactly like that without the possibility of keeping the air out of the sleeve. For example, if you needed to fit 75 cards in these sleeves into a regular sized deck box, you would need to compress the cards together before they could be put into the deck box.
(Tight Fit)
The amount of space inside of the sleeve for the card is also very limited meaning that you need to apply a little more force than usual to get cards to slide into the sleeves. This is a big problem if you accidentally don't push the card straight down and end up bending the card from trying to sleeve it. I almost bent 2 cards out of my 60 when sleeving up my deck because of this (luckily I did not keep applying force when I felt the card give).
(TL;DR) In conclusion, here are major faults about these sleeves:
-Extremely translucent orange backing
-Brittle clear plastic front
-Extremely WEAK seams
-Seams will split significantly or break within a day of lightly shuffling them
-2-3mm 'flap' at the top of the sleeves leave cards exposed
-Shuffle terribly
-Cards do not slide in easily and offer the possibility for you to accidentally damage your cards
-Sleeves have air pockets (think double sleeved deck with air trapped in the sleeves).
I will post up pictures later on of the splitting seams. I may also make a video demonstrating how ridiculously easy it is to break the seams.
Please do not buy these sleeves! They are a complete and utter waste of your money. Buyer beware.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Thanks for the wright up and warning. This should be posted in a product review thread to warn other people. The curved sleeves look cool, and it would be nice to use them if they were top quality.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
That's really strange because there are several people at my LGS including my self that have these sleeves and we love them and have had none of the problems listed. Maybe you got a bad batch.
While I've endured some splitting on the red KMC Mat Series sleeves (I'm willing to attribute it to a bad batch, and they still lasted a couple of months.), the blue and black sleeves I have are as good as any I've ever used, and I too would recommend them to anyone willing to spend the $11 or so on an 80 pack. They are completely opaque, which is something that you cannot say for Dragon Shields that are not Green or Black, and this may be relevant to those with a disdain for checklists.
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Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
That's really strange because there are several people at my LGS including my self that have these sleeves and we love them and have had none of the problems listed. Maybe you got a bad batch.
Really? Have you even tried shuffling these up? I have three more packs sitting in a box at home that I don't even want to bother using because of the terrible quality...
I will post pictures as soon as possible; I'm not too sure how well the details will show up with the cruddy camera I have but I'll make sure to document how ****ty the seams are (video).
Edit: Also, my sleeves of choice are Ultra Pro Pro-Matte. I've only bent 2-3 corners out of the 500+ sleeves that I've gone through (I switch them out when I happen to shuffle them up with dirty hands and they stop shuffling like new). I've also never split Pro-Matte sleeves. I'm just mentioning this because I've heard lots of people constantly bending their Pro-Matte corners or splitting their sleeves, most likely because they shuffle roughly. I shuffle pretty gently so I doubt that the splitting that occurred in my pack of curved sleeves was from me shuffling poorly.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
While I've endured some splitting on the red KMC Mat Series sleeves (I'm willing to attribute it to a bad batch, and they still lasted a couple of months.), the blue and black sleeves I have are as good as any I've ever used, and I too would recommend them to anyone willing to spend the $11 or so on an 80 pack. They are completely opaque, which is something that you cannot say for Dragon Shields that are not Green or Black, and this may be relevant to those with a disdain for checklists.
really they come in matte? are they textured too?
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Mabbz on MTGO | Demgrinds on Twitch & Twitter | Helpdesk
I don't think so. And I don't know if I would necessarily say that they are matte. What I do know is that there is that there is the Super Series sleeves, and then they have a Mat Series that is of slightly higher quality than that and are basically the top of the line.
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Former Level 2 Judge (Retired / Renounced)
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Yeah, channelfireball sells KMC mattes for $7 a pack. I always pick up one extra when I'm there if I anticipate using one in the near future, since everywhere else seems to be about $10.
Thanks for the heads up, I've been needing to purchase a good quantity of new sleeves for a while.
Question though, what do you guys/gals recommend in terms of the strongest sleeves that don't bend easily?
I've got a slew of the channel fireball sleeves, but they aren't holding up, like the old ultra pro ones I had with Nicol Bolas on it. Those were not as tight as the new ultra pros and are not as thick.
In other words, I want to protect my very expensive legacy decks - so what is the best choice? I can find the best prices, but I don't know which is the best protection just by looking at them on the web, etc.
Thanks for any help.
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Legacy UW U/W Control UB Reanimator UR Sneak and Show
Really? Have you even tried shuffling these up? I have three more packs sitting in a box at home that I don't even want to bother using because of the terrible quality...
I actually shuffle my own cards pretty hard(bridge shuffle mostly). I'm one of those people that don't really care about the post play value of my cards. Others in my shop to the side shuffle, I cant think of what its called.
The only complaint ever was how see through the backs are, but most of us use checklist cards any ways. So it doesn't really matter.
Thanks for the heads up, I've been needing to purchase a good quantity of new sleeves for a while.
Question though, what do you guys/gals recommend in terms of the strongest sleeves that don't bend easily?
I've got a slew of the channel fireball sleeves, but they aren't holding up, like the old ultra pro ones I had with Nicol Bolas on it. Those were not as tight as the new ultra pros and are not as thick.
In other words, I want to protect my very expensive legacy decks - so what is the best choice? I can find the best prices, but I don't know which is the best protection just by looking at them on the web, etc.
Thanks for any help.
Dragon Shields or Ultra Pro with Perfect Fits the opposite way (double sleeved) is what the 2 cube guys in my shop do. My legacy deck is burn, so I don't bother with the extra protection of double sleeving.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
In other words, I want to protect my very expensive legacy decks - so what is the best choice? I can find the best prices, but I don't know which is the best protection just by looking at them on the web, etc.
Thanks for any help.
A lot of people like KMC, dragon shields, or ultra pro.
For decks I use a lot, ultra pro is the best for me because they shuffle well, although the seams on ultra pro sleeves are probably the weakest out of the three (though they're still decent seams). KMC, on the other hand, doesn't shuffle quite as well, but definitely won't break at the seam. Either way, they all do a good job.
...
The conspiracy theorists suspect that the primary goal of Phoebus was not to develop international standards but instead, to sink the lifetime of all light bulbs.
...
Although Phoebus was disbanded in 1939, say the theorists, its influence is still felt in the West. By comparison, Soviet light bulbs and those produced in socialist countries (which didn't adhere to Western standards) have been noted to have a twice as long lifetime. Modern Chinese bulbs have a life expectancy of 5000 hours.
...
Similarities, similarities.
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Noah Weil on scouting, an attorney from Seattle with 20 Pro Tour appearances.
A lot of people like KMC, dragon shields, or ultra pro.
For decks I use a lot, ultra pro is the best for me because they shuffle well, although the seams on ultra pro sleeves are probably the weakest out of the three (though they're still decent seams). KMC, on the other hand, doesn't shuffle quite as well, but definitely won't break at the seam. Either way, they all do a good job.
I always purchased Ultra Pro, but started aggressively shopping for better deals on 60 deck sleeve purchases, I always hated how many companies made the protectors come in 50 or 80. Just to get that extra buck.
Back around Christmas this year, Channelfireball had a great sale going on with their own CB sleeves, so I bought 750 from them, came out to be about $2.00 per 50, so I couldn't beat that. I forget the company without looking on their website that makes them. Ultra Pro was just too expensive and I didn't care about MTG related artwork, don't get me wrong, I like cool designs, but price/quantity/quality/not being slick are what got me.
I"ll try out these KMC and Dragonshield. Don' think I have purchased them, but I may have got KMC in the long ago past. It's well worth whatever I have to pay now to sleeve anything with the OG Duals or cards over $50 for that matter.
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Legacy UW U/W Control UB Reanimator UR Sneak and Show
After testing a few brands over the years, I now exclusively use double sleeving - KMC perfect fit and Dragonshields (although normal KMC's aren't available here, so they may be interchangeable). They're as durable as hell, and with the double sleeving, they give you a few seconds response time in case of spills and the like.
I sleeve like that for any deck worth more than a draft deck.
I prefer keeping KMC perfect fit with KMC standard size, they just seem to fit together better. Dragon Shield are nice, but I don't think they make a perfect fit, do they?
KMC also makes the character guard sleeves, for triple-sleeving fun
https://www.removefromgame.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=58
https://www.hiddensupplies.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=82&product_id=444
I just wanted to make this thread to make sure that you do NOT buy these sleeves. They are absolutely terrible!
From my understanding the creators of these sleeves hold a patent for the curved corners so it will be a while before anyone else releases similar sleeves. You would think that there would be some research and development before something gets released but apparently not. They were released on August 26th, 2012 by RFG with their primary distributor being HiddenSupplies.
EDIT: Here are some pictures (6 Pictures inside)
Pen shows where the seam ends.
Sorry this is the best picture I could get of the split with my 10+ year old 5MP camera. If anything, the fact that you can see the split with such a bad camera should be a testament to how bad these sleeves are.
Translucent sleeve...
Heres a very heavily played Tropical Island that can be played if the sleeve is opaque (i.e. not see through at all). Edit: I just realized you can also see the splitting on the bottom left corner of the left-most sleeve.
(Splitting)
(Seams)
(Back)
(Front)
(Seam Bond)
(Air Pockets)
(TL;DR)
In conclusion, here are major faults about these sleeves:
-Extremely translucent orange backing
-Brittle clear plastic front
-Extremely WEAK seams
-Seams will split significantly or break within a day of lightly shuffling them
-2-3mm 'flap' at the top of the sleeves leave cards exposed
-Shuffle terribly
-Cards do not slide in easily and offer the possibility for you to accidentally damage your cards
-Sleeves have air pockets (think double sleeved deck with air trapped in the sleeves).
I will post up pictures later on of the splitting seams. I may also make a video demonstrating how ridiculously easy it is to break the seams.
Please do not buy these sleeves! They are a complete and utter waste of your money. Buyer beware.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)KMC's are my weapon of choice too. Many users here will swear by KMC's or Dragon Shields with KMC perfect fits.
WGURBLands!WGURB
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Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
While I've endured some splitting on the red KMC Mat Series sleeves (I'm willing to attribute it to a bad batch, and they still lasted a couple of months.), the blue and black sleeves I have are as good as any I've ever used, and I too would recommend them to anyone willing to spend the $11 or so on an 80 pack. They are completely opaque, which is something that you cannot say for Dragon Shields that are not Green or Black, and this may be relevant to those with a disdain for checklists.
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
You may want to check other stores or buy online. I believe the MSRP is $6.99 for a pack of 80 ct KMC sleeves.
Really? Have you even tried shuffling these up? I have three more packs sitting in a box at home that I don't even want to bother using because of the terrible quality...
I will post pictures as soon as possible; I'm not too sure how well the details will show up with the cruddy camera I have but I'll make sure to document how ****ty the seams are (video).
Edit: Also, my sleeves of choice are Ultra Pro Pro-Matte. I've only bent 2-3 corners out of the 500+ sleeves that I've gone through (I switch them out when I happen to shuffle them up with dirty hands and they stop shuffling like new). I've also never split Pro-Matte sleeves. I'm just mentioning this because I've heard lots of people constantly bending their Pro-Matte corners or splitting their sleeves, most likely because they shuffle roughly. I shuffle pretty gently so I doubt that the splitting that occurred in my pack of curved sleeves was from me shuffling poorly.
really they come in matte? are they textured too?
Mabbz on MTGO | Demgrinds on Twitch & Twitter | Helpdesk
Hmm. Maybe I'm getting gouged, but both card shops I go to (here at school and back at home) sell them for $11.
I don't think so. And I don't know if I would necessarily say that they are matte. What I do know is that there is that there is the Super Series sleeves, and then they have a Mat Series that is of slightly higher quality than that and are basically the top of the line.
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
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WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
Question though, what do you guys/gals recommend in terms of the strongest sleeves that don't bend easily?
I've got a slew of the channel fireball sleeves, but they aren't holding up, like the old ultra pro ones I had with Nicol Bolas on it. Those were not as tight as the new ultra pros and are not as thick.
In other words, I want to protect my very expensive legacy decks - so what is the best choice? I can find the best prices, but I don't know which is the best protection just by looking at them on the web, etc.
Thanks for any help.
Legacy
UW U/W Control
UB Reanimator
UR Sneak and Show
Casual
UB Tezz & Toys
B Zombies
R Goblins
I actually shuffle my own cards pretty hard(bridge shuffle mostly). I'm one of those people that don't really care about the post play value of my cards. Others in my shop to the side shuffle, I cant think of what its called.
The only complaint ever was how see through the backs are, but most of us use checklist cards any ways. So it doesn't really matter.
Dragon Shields or Ultra Pro with Perfect Fits the opposite way (double sleeved) is what the 2 cube guys in my shop do. My legacy deck is burn, so I don't bother with the extra protection of double sleeving.
Legacy
UW U/W Control
UB Reanimator
UR Sneak and Show
Casual
UB Tezz & Toys
B Zombies
R Goblins
A lot of people like KMC, dragon shields, or ultra pro.
For decks I use a lot, ultra pro is the best for me because they shuffle well, although the seams on ultra pro sleeves are probably the weakest out of the three (though they're still decent seams). KMC, on the other hand, doesn't shuffle quite as well, but definitely won't break at the seam. Either way, they all do a good job.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
http://conspiracy.wikia.com/wiki/Light_bulb_conspiracy
...
The conspiracy theorists suspect that the primary goal of Phoebus was not to develop international standards but instead, to sink the lifetime of all light bulbs.
...
Although Phoebus was disbanded in 1939, say the theorists, its influence is still felt in the West. By comparison, Soviet light bulbs and those produced in socialist countries (which didn't adhere to Western standards) have been noted to have a twice as long lifetime. Modern Chinese bulbs have a life expectancy of 5000 hours.
...
Similarities, similarities.
Noah Weil on scouting, an attorney from Seattle with 20 Pro Tour appearances.
I always purchased Ultra Pro, but started aggressively shopping for better deals on 60 deck sleeve purchases, I always hated how many companies made the protectors come in 50 or 80. Just to get that extra buck.
Back around Christmas this year, Channelfireball had a great sale going on with their own CB sleeves, so I bought 750 from them, came out to be about $2.00 per 50, so I couldn't beat that. I forget the company without looking on their website that makes them. Ultra Pro was just too expensive and I didn't care about MTG related artwork, don't get me wrong, I like cool designs, but price/quantity/quality/not being slick are what got me.
I"ll try out these KMC and Dragonshield. Don' think I have purchased them, but I may have got KMC in the long ago past. It's well worth whatever I have to pay now to sleeve anything with the OG Duals or cards over $50 for that matter.
Legacy
UW U/W Control
UB Reanimator
UR Sneak and Show
Casual
UB Tezz & Toys
B Zombies
R Goblins
KMC also makes the character guard sleeves, for triple-sleeving fun
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)