It's playable grave hate and in most average to best case scenarios, will result in a one-sided sweeper. The effect is also different from most Oblivion Ring effects in that the cards don't come back to play but into the owners' hands, which has multiple applications for both you and your opponent's creatures. I'd say this is most likely the third best 7+ drop, behind Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Eternal Dragon and about the same as Akroma, Angel of Wrath.
It's playable grave hate and in most average to best case scenarios, will result in a one-sided sweeper. The effect is also different from most Oblivion Ring effects in that the cards don't come back to play but into the owners' hands, which has multiple applications for both you and your opponent's creatures. I'd say this is most likely the third best 7+ drop, behind Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Eternal Dragon and about the same as Akroma, Angel of Wrath.
Off topic, but I'm getting less and less inspired by Eternal Dragon -- with the extent to which I support tempo, it is a card that only really does anything other than landcycle in control mirrors.
This still isn't good enough for my cube. 7-drops have an incredibly high barrier to entry for me.
Off topic, but I'm getting less and less inspired by Eternal Dragon -- with the extent to which I support tempo, it is a card that only really does anything other than landcycle in control mirrors.
This still isn't good enough for my cube. 7-drops have an incredibly high barrier to entry for me.
I agree with this...Eternal Dragon is a card I can't remember the last time it made my 40. It's certainly a reasonable card, but as much as I like flexibility, I feel I would greatly prefer something far more overtly "powerful" like this new angel in that spot. This new card seems very, very good, and while not Norn, nothing else is either.
I actually dont like the art
But i could see triple disentomb being good. It's an 8 mana blowout with crystal shard for what it's worth, and it temporarily deals with genesis.
I agree with this...Eternal Dragon is a card I can't remember the last time it made my 40.
Same here, I've felt it was really slow and eventually cut it for Elesh Norn and as much as I dislike the whole "never missed it" thing, I felt that way when I cut Eternal Dragon - usually just plainscycled and almost never recurrred nor was it hardcast that often.
Not sure what I think about the angel itself, though. I've heard comparisons of it being a really big Fiend Hunter and that sounds right and even if it just dies to removal, the opponent has to recast the cards (and you can rebuy your dead things.)
I can't remember the last time that Eternal Dragon missed a final 40. It fetches lands early, gets reanimated like a boss, grabs duals, and owns the control mirror. And sometimes you just need a dragon, and when the mana's there, he's great. If I'm playing a controlling white deck, he's going in.
I personally feel like Eternal Dragon has gotten better in the last six months in my cube. It is beyond awesome in reanimator, and the more aggro decks I face, the more I want my finishers to do something useful before turn ten (looking at you Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite).
Eternal Dragon is super sweet, I hated cutting it going down the cube size. It's not a finisher in the traditional sense. It's a sort of white mana-fix that gives you a free fatty in the graveyard for shenanigans can also be a big recursive flier. Self-discarding for reanimator is cool. It shouldn't really be being discussed here, as this creature is a much better 'finisher'.
Angel is bonkers, by the way. If it were blue I'd be so, so happy right now.
I really like this card, but it might not end up panning out. I've noticed that many here are quick to dismiss most fatties when they're spoiled, though - case and point Consecrated Sphinx and Primeval Titan.
Angel of Serenity is a very cool card, quite the house in reanimator. Since I've played Parallax Wave I've really taken in account how good getting rid of tokens are, she removes chump blockers and grabs your other fatties from your yard (Mmmmm Entomb).
Elesh Norn is a great card but didn't see a lot of play in my cube because shes too expensive for midrange (the decks that want to play her) and doesn't have enough board presence on her own in control/reanimator.
I gave her a little thought when she was first spoiled but now I'm just shoving her in! She is the best white creature to reanimate that isn't Iona (9 mana versus 7).
Elesh Norn is a great card but didn't see a lot of play in my cube because shes too expensive for midrange (the decks that want to play her) and doesn't have enough board presence on her own in control/reanimator.
Elesh Norn doesn't have enough board presence? Are you kidding? It's like the #1 board presence card ever printed. It's almost impossible for them to win with creatures if it's in play.
I think the fact that this creature can recur utility creatures in the yard and bounces the removed creatures ounces it leaves really gives it a leg up. It could be a solid reanimate or show and tell creature. But to say it has more board board presence then elesh norn is absurd. I guess in a dragon cube thats probably accurate but in a standard cube elesh born is a beating.
One thing I didn't think of before is that this angel is absurd in a sneak attack deck. That's something to consider. I think if your cube is running another white fattie (7 drop or higher) along side elesh norn this should be it. Far better than akroma and Iona for all the strategies I mentioned.
Elesh Norn is a great card but didn't see a lot of play in my cube because shes too expensive for midrange (the decks that want to play her) and doesn't have enough board presence on her own in control/reanimator.
Elesh Norn is the bane of aggro decks. Even if she is your only creature out (like it would be the case in control or reanimator decks), she will absolutely dominate the board. Her presence negates 70-80% of the aggro players creature base. And I would totally player her in most midrange decks too, because she will win you the game once you hit seven mana.
One thing I didn't think of before is that this angel is absurd in a sneak attack deck. That's something to consider. I think if your cube is running another white fattie (7 drop or higher) along side elesh norn this should be it. Far better than akroma and Iona for all the strategies I mentioned.
That is a very interesting interaction, but I think it is a bit too unreliable in cube (as a singleton format).
Returning exiled creatures to the hand gives the Angel a much better effect than the normal Oblivion Ring ability would. The option to get a creature or two back is very nice, too. I can definitely see her making the cut in larger cubes.
I really like this card, but it might not end up panning out. I've noticed that many here are quick to dismiss most fatties when they're spoiled, though - case and point Consecrated Sphinx and Primeval Titan.
It's not true that people dismiss fatties. Counterpoint: every other Titan, all four of which (to the least extent Frosty) people were drooling over from the start. Many (myself included) still don't like Prime Time. Ironically I was a big advocate of C. Sphinx when it was spoiled but ended up cutting it anyway when I reduced my cube size.
It's a very subjective area because you don't need multiple redundant copies of big finishers. That's where the 'dismissal' comes from; people would happily include yet another one-drop of similar power level to this, but it's harder to get excited about another fatty that you probably won't have space for.
That is a very interesting interaction, but I think it is a bit too unreliable in cube (as a singleton format).
I'm confused. Why is this a bit too unreliable. You must not be talking about sneak attack being unreliable because you are running it in your own cube, so you must be talking about the angel. It's no more inconsistent than other sneak attack creatures. If you don't draw it, it will do nothing. If you do it will most likely have a large effect on the game. I think it is the best sneak attack creature in white hands down. (probably one of the best period if your not running eldrazi's) More than elesh norn. Large body, evasion, sweeps large creatures as well as small one, and can recur your other sneak creatures. That's far from unreliable.
Another card it works very well with is living death. It makes that card far less situational. It allows you to wipe the creatures that return on the opponents side of the board as well as return any that may have been in play on your side when you cast living death.
I'm not saying its a windmill slam auto include #1 white fatty (elesh norn). What I'm saying is if your cube supports Reanimator, Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, or Living Death (probably some others I'm missing) and you include Akroma, Iona, or some other 7+ fattie its a windmill slam auto include #2 white fatty.
I think your list should run it over Akroma. It allows you to build your "cheat-in" decks in a way that doesn't make you go all in on a fatty since its bounce and recur abilities can allow you to grind out games where your plan is interrupted. It's EtB abilities more than makes up for the fact that it "dies to removal", and it's ability to sweep opponents board makes up for its lack of vigilance. (comparing to Akroma) I'm not even gonna to explain why it's better than Iona. After cubing that card to death it's more than apparent that it doesn't belong in cube.
I may cut Yosei for this guy. My only concern there is that Yosei gets hard cast often and this creature is WWW
I'm confused. Why is this a bit too unreliable. You must not be talking about sneak attack being unreliable because you are running it in your own cube, so you must be talking about the angel. It's no more inconsistent than other sneak attack creatures. If you don't draw it, it will do nothing. If you do it will most likely have a large effect on the game. I think it is the best sneak attack creature in white hands down. (probably one of the best period if your not running eldrazi's) More than elesh norn. Large body, evasion, sweeps large creatures as well as small one, and can recur your other sneak creatures. That's far from unreliable.
I meant that a "Sneak Attack deck" is too unreliable in cube, since it is a singleton format. As in a deck that relies on Sneak Attack to work. I found SA to be a nice addition to GR ramp and BR reanimator decks. You have a primary way to get your fatties into play and then you have SA as a back-up plan. Counting SA as the main way to get Angel of Serenity into play is far too risky though. I never disputed the great interaction between those two cards. It's just that a player shouldn't rely on this two card combo too much, since you won't draw both cards together every time.
Another card it works very well with is living death. It makes that card far less situational. It allows you to wipe the creatures that return on the opponents side of the board as well as return any that may have been in play on your side when you cast living death.
Living Death is indeed another good card for the Angel. I get my creatures into play, you get yours into your hand (or never, if you don't kill the Angel fast)? Sounds like a plan.
I think your list should run it over Akroma. It allows you to build your "cheat-in" decks in a way that doesn't make you go all in on a fatty since its bounce and recur abilities can allow you to grind out games where your plan is interrupted. It's EtB abilities more than makes up for the fact that it "dies to removal", and it's ability to sweep opponents board makes up for its lack of vigilance. (comparing to Akroma) I'm not even gonna to explain why it's better than Iona. After cubing that card to death it's more than apparent that it doesn't belong in cube.
Akroma, Angel of Wrath is such an iconic creature and I would be sad to see her go. That said, she may indeed be worse than the new Angel.
This creature may be better than Akroma. I do feel bad about replacing Akroma since she is so iconic, but TBH, no one maindecks Akroma. Considering Akroma is a nonbo for a good chunk of the black reanimation spells, I will consider this Angel as a replacement.
I don't think I need more White Finisher. But this cards is pretty bonkers.
My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
Sweet art though!
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Unfortunately seems a distant 3rd-4th place as a white reanimation target
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
360 Uncommons only Cube!
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
Off topic, but I'm getting less and less inspired by Eternal Dragon -- with the extent to which I support tempo, it is a card that only really does anything other than landcycle in control mirrors.
This still isn't good enough for my cube. 7-drops have an incredibly high barrier to entry for me.
I agree with this...Eternal Dragon is a card I can't remember the last time it made my 40. It's certainly a reasonable card, but as much as I like flexibility, I feel I would greatly prefer something far more overtly "powerful" like this new angel in that spot. This new card seems very, very good, and while not Norn, nothing else is either.
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
But i could see triple disentomb being good. It's an 8 mana blowout with crystal shard for what it's worth, and it temporarily deals with genesis.
My CubeCobra (draft 20 card packs, 2 packs.)
430, Peasant, Very Unpowered
Why you should take your hybrids out of your gold section
Manamath Article
Same here, I've felt it was really slow and eventually cut it for Elesh Norn and as much as I dislike the whole "never missed it" thing, I felt that way when I cut Eternal Dragon - usually just plainscycled and almost never recurrred nor was it hardcast that often.
Not sure what I think about the angel itself, though. I've heard comparisons of it being a really big Fiend Hunter and that sounds right and even if it just dies to removal, the opponent has to recast the cards (and you can rebuy your dead things.)
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
And yeah, Elesh Norn is better than this lady.
Angel is bonkers, by the way. If it were blue I'd be so, so happy right now.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Draft it on Cubetutor!
Elesh Norn is a great card but didn't see a lot of play in my cube because shes too expensive for midrange (the decks that want to play her) and doesn't have enough board presence on her own in control/reanimator.
I gave her a little thought when she was first spoiled but now I'm just shoving her in! She is the best white creature to reanimate that isn't Iona (9 mana versus 7).
Elesh Norn doesn't have enough board presence? Are you kidding? It's like the #1 board presence card ever printed. It's almost impossible for them to win with creatures if it's in play.
One thing I didn't think of before is that this angel is absurd in a sneak attack deck. That's something to consider. I think if your cube is running another white fattie (7 drop or higher) along side elesh norn this should be it. Far better than akroma and Iona for all the strategies I mentioned.
Elesh Norn is the bane of aggro decks. Even if she is your only creature out (like it would be the case in control or reanimator decks), she will absolutely dominate the board. Her presence negates 70-80% of the aggro players creature base. And I would totally player her in most midrange decks too, because she will win you the game once you hit seven mana.
That is a very interesting interaction, but I think it is a bit too unreliable in cube (as a singleton format).
Returning exiled creatures to the hand gives the Angel a much better effect than the normal Oblivion Ring ability would. The option to get a creature or two back is very nice, too. I can definitely see her making the cut in larger cubes.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
It's not true that people dismiss fatties. Counterpoint: every other Titan, all four of which (to the least extent Frosty) people were drooling over from the start. Many (myself included) still don't like Prime Time. Ironically I was a big advocate of C. Sphinx when it was spoiled but ended up cutting it anyway when I reduced my cube size.
It's a very subjective area because you don't need multiple redundant copies of big finishers. That's where the 'dismissal' comes from; people would happily include yet another one-drop of similar power level to this, but it's harder to get excited about another fatty that you probably won't have space for.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I'm confused. Why is this a bit too unreliable. You must not be talking about sneak attack being unreliable because you are running it in your own cube, so you must be talking about the angel. It's no more inconsistent than other sneak attack creatures. If you don't draw it, it will do nothing. If you do it will most likely have a large effect on the game. I think it is the best sneak attack creature in white hands down. (probably one of the best period if your not running eldrazi's) More than elesh norn. Large body, evasion, sweeps large creatures as well as small one, and can recur your other sneak creatures. That's far from unreliable.
Another card it works very well with is living death. It makes that card far less situational. It allows you to wipe the creatures that return on the opponents side of the board as well as return any that may have been in play on your side when you cast living death.
I'm not saying its a windmill slam auto include #1 white fatty (elesh norn). What I'm saying is if your cube supports Reanimator, Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, or Living Death (probably some others I'm missing) and you include Akroma, Iona, or some other 7+ fattie its a windmill slam auto include #2 white fatty.
I think your list should run it over Akroma. It allows you to build your "cheat-in" decks in a way that doesn't make you go all in on a fatty since its bounce and recur abilities can allow you to grind out games where your plan is interrupted. It's EtB abilities more than makes up for the fact that it "dies to removal", and it's ability to sweep opponents board makes up for its lack of vigilance. (comparing to Akroma) I'm not even gonna to explain why it's better than Iona. After cubing that card to death it's more than apparent that it doesn't belong in cube.
I may cut Yosei for this guy. My only concern there is that Yosei gets hard cast often and this creature is WWW
So do I. This is a pretty good creature.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I meant that a "Sneak Attack deck" is too unreliable in cube, since it is a singleton format. As in a deck that relies on Sneak Attack to work. I found SA to be a nice addition to GR ramp and BR reanimator decks. You have a primary way to get your fatties into play and then you have SA as a back-up plan. Counting SA as the main way to get Angel of Serenity into play is far too risky though. I never disputed the great interaction between those two cards. It's just that a player shouldn't rely on this two card combo too much, since you won't draw both cards together every time.
Living Death is indeed another good card for the Angel. I get my creatures into play, you get yours into your hand (or never, if you don't kill the Angel fast)? Sounds like a plan.
Akroma, Angel of Wrath is such an iconic creature and I would be sad to see her go. That said, she may indeed be worse than the new Angel.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
360 Uncommons only Cube!
GWB Junk Stax Ghave BWG