[Deck] Post-Rotation Heartless Summoning

[Sanity_Cleaver]

I've actually been tinkering with a different build, and here's what I've got:

Deck
4x Goblin Arsonist 4x Black Cat 4x Rix Maadi Guildmage 4x Rakdos, Lord of Riots 4x Bloodgift Demon 3x Carnival Hellsteed 3x Chaos Imps 4x Heartless Summoning 4x Pillar of Flame 4x Brimstone Volley	4x Blood Crypt 4x Dragonskull Summit 2x Rakdos Guildgate 6x Swamp 6x Mountain

The huge downside I've seen to many Heartless decks is the fact that without Heartless they just plain suck. This seems to be less so the case here.

The weenies are there as chumps for the aggro rush, plus none of them actually lose value once Heartless hits the board. The goblin becomes burn and the cat is disruption.
Dropping them/Heartless into each other also instantly acitvates a morbid Brimstone Volley. They can also get damage through to surprise someone with big papa Rakdos.
The guildmage I thought kinda sucked, but in playtesting has proved surprisingly strong.

The Hellsteed and Chaos Imps are there because they HIT HARD. Harder than you'd expect :P
I haven't fully explored other options, but even with Heartless around I do still want my dudes to be able to hit in for 5 or 6. The guy I have considered as a replacement is Reaper from the Abyss as the deck activates morbid really well, but I'm not such a fan of triple-black in its cost.

[Kosakosa]

Yeah, what Gate Keeper said. I had pretty nice games without even seeing HS at all. The first turns are meant for controlling, and HS isnt necessary at all depending on the hand.

About Falkenrath Noble, he is there for a couple of reasons. He flies, so he can chump block anything. By flying, he's guaranteed to hit when Thundermaw hits play. He's easy to cast even without HS and, most importantly, he comboes with Desecration Demon: if you choose to tap my Demon, I will gain one and you will lose one. Its a nice piece of pressure.

[Kosakosa]

We kinda discussed about Arsonist. He's good but unreliable. He can't be used to kill mana dorks or unflipped Delver if you fail to have HS at T2. That makes the deck more dependant on HS when it should be the opposite.

About Hellsteed and Guild Imps, we've tried them but Thundermaw Hellkite is just better, in every sense of it. But keep lets keep on brewing this!

[Dalems]

All these lists are just bad version of Rakdos aggro... even if we get a turn 2 HS you don't have any better chances of winning and are slowed down a turn. I think we should use heartless summoning as a "combo piece" rather than just a ooo my creatures just got weaker SWEET!... wtf. I'll post my list soon.

[rafl]

Anyone tried Jund or 4c yet? You can build a ramp deck with pretty high odds of landing a HS or Farseek t2. Early Thragtusk or machinegunning with Olivia/Niv seems pretty good. Honestly, having played HS before, I don't think timmy Rakdos beaters is the way to go.

[The Gate Keeper]

Originally Posted by Dalems

All these lists are just bad version of Rakdos aggro... even if we get a turn 2 HS you don't have any better chances of winning and are slowed down a turn. I think we should use heartless summoning as a "combo piece" rather than just a ooo my creatures just got weaker SWEET!... wtf. I'll post my list soon.

A bad version of Rakdos Aggro is anything expect B/r Zombies seriously if you are in Black Aggro the Zombie Shell is the way to go no other reason to do it any other way.

This deck still stands on its own without Heartless using Nighthawk as our 3 drop, then Turn 4 Desecration Demon is a way to control the board nicely. We arent just playing the biggest creatures possible just so we can make the cheap. This deck can survive without Heartless its not as much fun as a Turn 3 demon or a turn 3 Hellkite but the deck still does work.

[The Gate Keeper]

I've been playtesting a lot today and the list is very solid. Turn 3 nighthawl without heartless is a very strong and then yiu can curve right into Desecration demon.

[sonofstev]

Been playtesting the version on page 1. It's extraordinarily fun, but tends to crap out if Heartless isn't on the board.

Desecration Demon is far better than it seems, especially on T3.

[Kosakosa]

Originally Posted by rafl

Anyone tried Jund or 4c yet? You can build a ramp deck with pretty high odds of landing a HS or Farseek t2. Early Thragtusk or machinegunning with Olivia/Niv seems pretty good. Honestly, having played HS before, I don't think timmy Rakdos beaters is the way to go.

The problem is what to cut for the green split. I'm not sure if Farseek and Thragtusk justifies the mana scramble onto Jund. Plus, what to take out for it? Searing Spear?
I think the way it stands, it's pretty solid, though I'd love to see a Jund list based on this.

Originally Posted by sonofstev

Been playtesting the version on page 1. It's extraordinarily fun, but tends to crap out if Heartless isn't on the board.

Desecration Demon is far better than it seems, especially on T3.

There's a better list at page 3. And yeah, early Demon ROCKS, it will shut up so many haters when they are at the receiving end. It's even better than a T3 Bloodgift imo.

[The Gate Keeper]

Im not a huge fan of Falkenrath Noble so far and I am a giant fan of Vampire Nighthawk. If we dont get Heartless online on Turn 2 Nighthawk comes down Turn 3 and helps us by either killing their big drop or protecting us alittle and gaining some some life and letting us stablize. Ive play tested against Jund Zombies and it seems to be doing pretty well without sideboarding the key is keeping early mana to slip or giestflame Lotleth Troll who is super strong if you give him the chance to do anything. Also stealing their own Aristocrat with Olivia is awesome

[Yoshimitsu]

Has anyone tried Somberwald Sage? For me, she's just gamewinning a not-insignificant portion of the time when you dont draw heartless and they don't kill her, and when you do have heartless she turns on tragic slip for 1 mana. My version also runs Harvester of Souls to take advantage of the interaction.

[Kosakosa]

Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu

Has anyone tried Somberwald Sage? For me, she's just gamewinning a not-insignificant portion of the time when you dont draw heartless and they don't kill her, and when you do have heartless she turns on tragic slip for 1 mana. My version also runs Harvester of Souls to take advantage of the interaction.

That makes a Jund splash necessary. Plus, she's way too fragile (and a dead card when HS hits).

I really liked Harvester of Souls. Tried him on main deck, then side, then took it out. The reason is that he's way too expensive to not have an immediate board impact. Bloodgift Demon is more straight-forward, has evasion and can serve to ping opponents if needed.

One of the ways to make a HS deck less dependable on it is to keep mana costs low. That's why the highest cmc is 5, and all extra mana can be used into Olivia or Geistflame's flashback.

[TwinSais]

Thoughts on Chemister? Becomes CMC 3, Draw 2 cards is nuts, you can discard a bomb (which could also be playable with heartless) for removal as well. Makes me wanna throw in unburial rites too

[The Gate Keeper]

Originally Posted by TwinSais

Thoughts on Chemister? Becomes CMC 3, Draw 2 cards is nuts, you can discard a bomb (which could also be playable with heartless) for removal as well. Makes me wanna throw in unburial rites too

I like him but I dont think Grixis Heartless has the mana support at the moment.

Rakdos Summoning
Creatures 4 Vampire Nighthawk 2 Olivia Voldaren 2 Hellrider 2 Falkenrath Noble 4 Desecration Demon 3 Bloodgift Demon 2 Zealous Conscripts 2 Thundermaw Hellkite Spells 4 Heartless Summoning 4 Tragic Slip 4 Geistflame 3 Searing Spear	Lands 9 Swamp 7 Mountain 4 Blood Crypt 4 Dragonskull Summit

That is one thing I do really love about the mana base right now is its super consistent.
Ive cut one Noble for another Nighthawk.
Searing Spear is way better then I expected Ive finished several games with it. Although I still wanna test Dreadbore maybe 2 Spears 1 Dreadbore maindeck.

I had a friend suggest Balefire Dragon but I think it is just way to costly even with Heartless up.

[hellgrammite]

Originally Posted by The Gate Keeper

I like him but I dont think Grixis Heartless has the mana support at the moment.

That is one thing I do really love about the mana base right now is its super consistent.
Ive cut one Noble for another Nighthawk.
Searing Spear is way better then I expected Ive finished several games with it. Although I still wanna test Dreadbore maybe 2 Spears 1 Dreadbore maindeck.

I had a friend suggest Balefire Dragon but I think it is just way to costly even with Heartless up.

Any testing with Rakdos, Lord of riots? He seems better in a midrange/control deck like this.