Hi. I'm Glmyrpost. I'm a distinctly johnny player. I'm a reasonably casual guy. I like playing funny decks. However, I'm a johnny spike. I do rather like winning (split for 1st in 2 of my previous 4 fnms). I never played delver or cawblade. I'm simic. I don't have a favorite color (in magic terms). I'm rather good at limited, being first or second in my last 5 limited events, sealed and draft. I've only played 5 limited events :D.
This deck is my baby. I generally switch decks from week to week, moth to month. I've played everything odd (and some not so odd). Zombies, genesis wave elves, BATS, GATS, Primal surge, and a number of others, and that is just this standard season. Don't even get me started on EDH, for which I have a few funny decks.
This is the deck that I ran on the final night before rotation, it has some substandard choices, but overall played out rather well. You'll be able to tell that parts of it were cobbled together and things looked...odd:
This decklist is obviously awful looking. I actually didn't realize while playing it how many issues it had (I thought I had 4 conscripts, apparently I let someone borrow them). Even with this set up, it performed reasonably well. I went 2-2 (5-5), losing a deciding match due to misplays on my part. However, enough about me. More about the deck.
Deadeye Lotus is a combo deck. What does that mean? It means that the deck wins through a combination of cards doing something degenerate that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do. This is how combo decks work. It isn't that simple though. A combo is, by definition easy to disrupt. You need to get a set of cards together or the deck fizzles.
To look at this, lets analyze an older but relatively recent form of combo deck: ExarchtWin. This deck worked by attaching a splinter twin to a deceiver exarch and proceeding to attack with a frightening quantity of hasty 1/4 dudes.
Why was this form of combo competitive? Two reasons: it had lots of disruption. Splinter twin played counters, board wipes, and other forms of removal to slow aggro and keep people from killing it before the combo went off. The second is that it could protect its combo. The combo could go off as early as turn 4 (3 in some RUG builds), with exarch being flashed in eot turn 3 and the enchantment being played turn 4, winning the game. This enabled the deck to have counter mana open almost all the time, and only be vulnerable at one point. Against control decks, it went slower and kept counters open and available to protect itsself even better.
This teaches us a few lessons that we need to keep in mind when building our own deck: The combo needs to be difficult to disrupt, the combo needs to protect itsself, the combo needs to disrupt the opponent, and each individual piece needs to be playable on its own. These four basic principles are necessary when building a deck. Lets look at our deck and see how well they apply.
1. The combo needs to be difficult to disrupt
Unlike most 'good' combo decks, Deadeye Lotus has 3 pieces. This is a weakness that needs to be taken care of by its other aspects, since this means that it is much more difficult to assemble than a 2 piece combo deck. Luckily, each individual piece is rather difficult to disrupt. Gilded Lotus isn't a threatening card until too late, so won't often be removed. Furthermore, there isn't a huge quantity of artifact destruction played often in control decks. Aggro decks might have some, but it isn't greatly likely. Permanent destruction and things like O-ring are the bigger danger.
Zealous conscripts is probably the most easy to disrupt combo piece. It is, once played, a vanilla 3/3. Not exactly hard to get rid of. The navigator however is probably the single more annoying to remove creature in the game, since it also manages to protect any creature you have out at the time. Overall, the deck can be disrupted, but in testing it rarely faces it. That might change though. Meta based most likely. We also have ways to mitigate disruption, mostly having to do with reasonable quantities of card draw and things like that.
2. The combo needs to protect itsself
We are playing blue, red, and green. That gives us counterspells, bounce, burn, limited forms of permanent destruction, oh...and acidic slime. That seems like enough ways to protect itsself.
3. The combo needs to disrupt the opponent
What was that I said about blue, red and green? We can kill things, counter things, and make things go away. That seems good enough. And it is in most cases. More importantly, once the combo has gone off, you either win on the spot or have a very strong softlock against the opponent for as long as you need
4. The combo pieces must be good on their own
Deadeye is one of the best cards even in non 60 card constructed. He's rather good in our deck with (nearly) any other card. Conscripts saw play in naya pod and red midrange strats because of the advantage it provides, and that is still true. He can win games alone. Finally, lotus is probably the best ramp card in the format (with birds and prime time gone). The addition of cards like acidic slime and elvish visionary give you advantage when played and even more when paired with deadeye.
So we lose a number of cards with RTR. That is a sad thing, but reasonable, and we do have replacements for many, however a lot of them involve splashing white, something I am loathe to do, but has been performing reasonably in testing.
Some of these are reasonably sized losses, but all other than slagstorm have very direct replacements, hopefully slagstorm won't turn out to be as necessary as I previously thought, or we will be able to stall for a mizzium mortars.
We also gain a number of cards with RTR. Many of them are options for finishers, though there are some cards that stall reasonably well and will do well early game. Here is a list of cards that could be included in a deck
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius - Instant win with combo, alt win condition on his own.
Sweepers - There are 3 new red sweepers, each isn't as good as slagstomr, but they function well together. Cyclonic Rift - Sweeper that also functions as early spot removal/tempo control Inspriation - Instant speed draw, can function as an alt win con with tamayo ult or nivix guildmage Syncopate - Solid tempo counter, probably not as good as dissipate Izzet Charm - Possible inclusion because of the roles it fills (removal, filter, tempo) Ash Zealot - Counterflux - Nivix Guildmage - Instant win with combo, as he instant speed draws a win condition and can copy spells (like inspiration or burn) to win the game Dryad Militant - Very solid sideboard material
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
You blink the Conscripts again...and again...and again...until you have all of there stuff maybe? Or you can cast a "fireball" type spell if you have one.
You use Lotus mana to blink Zealous. When. Zealous comes back, you choose to "gain control" of your lotus, which then untaps. You gain one blue mana every iteration, infinitely. Once you've gained that, you can then make any colour of mana to pay for stuff, or steal their entire board, or infinitely blink Slime to kill all their lands, etc.
I'm very interested in this archetype. I feel like having all the combo bit out of abrupt decay range will be helpful to staying viable.
The only thing that can be hit with decay is the lotus, conscripts can bounce the other pieces. You can also always combo off in response to an activation.
You blink the Conscripts again...and again...and again...until you have all of there stuff maybe? Or you can cast a "fireball" type spell if you have one.
This basically, or niv, or huntmaster, or thragtusk. All of those are instawins basically.
You use Lotus mana to blink Zealous. When. Zealous comes back, you choose to "gain control" of your lotus, which then untaps. You gain one blue mana every iteration, infinitely. Once you've gained that, you can then make any colour of mana to pay for stuff, or steal their entire board, or infinitely blink Slime to kill all their lands, etc.
Yeap, I'll explain it clearly this afternoon, when I'm on a better connection
Update on testing: favorable MUs against bant aggro, since the deck can play out as RUG(w?) beatdown without the combo.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
All of the pieces are out of Decay's reach so that pretty much stumps most decks main deck answer. You do have to worry a bit about spot removal disrupting it. Wouldn't unsummon be better used as the two drop bounce that can also one sided bounce the field?
why arbor elf with only 6 lands you can untap with him? It could easily just be farseek, you lose the t2 3 mana possible but gain true ramp.
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
All of the pieces are out of Decay's reach so that pretty much stumps most decks main deck answer. You do have to worry a bit about spot removal disrupting it. Wouldn't unsummon be better used as the two drop bounce that can also one sided bounce the field?
Cyclonic rift? It was an option, but I often unsummon my own creatures anyway, since they dodge removal and then are more value when replayed.
why arbor elf with only 6 lands you can untap with him? It could easily just be farseek, you lose the t2 3 mana possible but gain true ramp.
That was a remnant of the RUG/w testing, avacyn's pilgrim worked better there anyway. Farseek would be better, but I'm unsure if I want farseek or gatecreeper vine in the 2 cmc slot. Creeper doesn't ramp, but it colorfixes just as well, provides a body, and can fetch land later (I really want solemn simulacrum back)
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
i built this deck today as i saw it here and liked it alot...
after playing about 15- 20 games with it i would like to share my opinion as i like it and hopes the op will continue with this primer..
i have not figured how to write decklist's on here but as soon as i do will post my decklist
deadeye navigator and no answer is basically a free win it has crazy synergies with all the cards the op has mentioned its just silly and really fun to watch your opponent's face drop
It is absolutely wonderful, I agree.
i liked playing it but i felt there was a few issues with the deck..
(1) i soon felt like the only wincons the deck was:
Both versions are supposed to have acidic slime, I'm not sure how that slipped though. Thragtusk and huntmaster serve nearly the same role, the tusker just costs 1 more and thus is in the same spot as conscripts. Therefore, I run huntmaster over him. He's certainly an option though.
so im runnning 3x guilded lotus and im sitting there playing thinking that i wish my current 6 mana on my table where all blue rather then the 2 blue sources i had.. step in chromatic lantern
it worked so well i put 2 in instantly the prospect of turn 1 dork turn 2 chromatic latern turn 3 guilded lotus dont get me wrong im in wonderland but it happened and x2 chromatic latern and x3 guilded lotus just felt right but as someone mentioned it is in abrupt decay territory... sadface, but it does make ramp and fix and this is the deck to abuse it in standard
Yeah, the combo dodges abrupt decay, and lantern will be a dead play if abrupt is played against it.
i felt much more comfortably with thragtusk and a acidic slime, was nice to have either of these with deadeye navigator as i play with it i will of course smooth out the lines and have some decent idea of the numbers i wanna run but this is a good starting point..
Remember that huntmaster/deadeye does what thragtusk does, just slightly smaller numbers. Acidic slime, as said deserves a spot and that was a horrible oversight on my part.
(2) it does not survive very well,
hence me puting in a thragtusk for extra life gain aswell as running 3 huntmaster
i dont know if i like the deck with counter spells i would much rather be trying to get mass value like how wolf run did last winter with whipflare and slagstorm we have mizzium mortars to put in some work but its not a very reliable wrath even for this deck.. so i thought about bonfire of the damned and maqmaquake... i went with the latter
Magmaquake seems reasonable, I think bonfire is less impressive than mortars, since its either 9 or 5 mana to do what mortars always does for 6. Plus mortars is useful earlygame as spot removal. Magmaquake seems very, very good over street spasm.
i feel people are going to be playing with planeswalkers for a while we run none and its an instant speed wrath that i feel some people forget, kinda tricky seems fitting for such a deck, so i went:
This is a perfectly good sweeper package, and I think it would work great.
obviously maqmaquake cant hit flyers but im not sold on how relevant that is going to be unless you playing tokens could be annoying but i think its a better wrath in red then what some people have suggested.. rolling temblor
Temblor is bad. Its awful, I've tried. Its bad. Electrickery also takes care of tokens/delver very well.
i could be wrong but i feel it needs to take a wolf run type approach i also put in 2 kessig wolf runs to take advantage of all the mana the deck creates pumping a huntmaster token to let it flips seems great to me when you have no deadeye and need a crazy mana sink
Also a reasonable possibility, I don't know how big the loss in consistency is, but it deserves a test if nothing else.
im also going to try devils play as well for a alternate way to finsih opponents
ill let you know how testing goes and please feel free to tell me if im utterly wrong
That was one of my alt wincons. Believe it or not, much of this is addressed in upcoming updates.
You should run Izzet Charm It can either protect your setpieces or have you filter for them.
Its an option, I am unsure what to take out though, the decklist is very tight as is.
I do feel you need a 4 of every piece. I mean, how is the deck linear if the deck doesnt work at all if you dont pull that combo off? I dont understand the above statements.
Furthermore, every piece is good. Conscripts wins the game alone. Deadeye and anything wins/stalls the game effectively. Lotus is amazing ramp.
I also think that Gatecrash is the likely set to provide some tools for this. If the Simic charm can ramp/protect stuff it would be golden, and it would be nice for them to reprint a 2 damage sweeper like pyroclasm.
I am expecting that both the simic and gruul cards we get will be more than useful in this deck, especially since it is more simic than izzet, and more gruul than izzet as well.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
Not sure if anyone else has said this but with the combo you can take all their creatures, blink them and then they are yours for good. Or you can just kill all of their tokens if you so choose to.
I really wanna play this deck for a FNM. How viable has this been on a highly competetive level?
Not sure if anyone else has said this but with the combo you can take all their creatures, blink them and then they are yours for good. Or you can just kill all of their tokens if you so choose to.
Oh god, I never realized that. The plot thickens
I really wanna play this deck for a FNM. How viable has this been on a highly competetive level?
It has favorable matchups against bant and jund, the biggest issues are aggro decks, since they can kill you before you really get board presence, hence the 17 sweeper spells.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
Ok, outsider perspective, and I might be missing something here... but why on earth are you guys running green? The best sweepers are all in white. With the addition of Keystones, there's plenty of white ramp. I would try a U/W/r list. Something like this.
The list is more of a UWR miracle deck with a combo built in. I'm not sure I have enough win cons though...
I understand that green brings good lifegain in huntmaster and thragtusk. I just think that sweepers are more efficient than whatever lifegain huntmaster could bring.
I prefer green lifegain/alt wincons in huntmaster/tusk over more sweepers (we have access to 5+ in red), but I do think an american combo deck would be fun. You also then get to abuse detain shenanigans. Lyev skynight beats to win?
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
I think green's sustain with huntmaster and thragtusk plus visionary to dig and arbor elf/farseek to ramp push us way better into the green. The sweepers in red also only target the opponent, unlike the white sweepers that hit our creatures too (which is huge as we are a creature based combo deck).
I played this with Deceiver Exarch and Zealous last week and took 1st, but now, without deceiver, it isn't as consistent. However, it still works. I was actually going to post a primer on this. I think it is a very competitive deck. Here's my list.
It works pretty well simply because of Acidic Slime and Thragtusk, and the combo just seals the deal. Acidic Slime protects the combo from oblivion rings and it locks down fringe token decks and other enchantment heavy decks. It has a bonus of finishing the game on its own through land wiping. Thragtusk lets you live a bit longer to get off the combo and he also lets you stand a chance against zombies. Zealous is good even without the combo, as he can finish the game against zombies because you can sacrifice their Falkenrath Aristocrat or take that and a blood artist through flickering the conscripts and just sac your field and win. There are a lot of cool things the conscripts can do with Ghostly Flicker like take 1 of their attackers and use it to trade with their other attacker. It can also take an intangible virtue, after they declare attackers, take a blood artist in response to a killing wave, etc..
This deck is slightly vulnerable to RDW, because of things like Flames of the Firebrand, which can kill multiple mana dorks, a thragtusk, an acidic slime, or a zealous conscripts before you get your deadeye out, who can flicker the creature in response. This is why i have a sideboard built heavily to counter that deck, along with a few cards for zombies, WU delver, and RU delver.
i tested jace tonight and its one of the worst planeswalkers. it never really does anything except make u lose. i suggest u sell yours for 17 each like i did.
then again on valakut
ROFL what? Valakut? The best card in standard is Jace the mind Sculptor
hm.... interesting.
Haters gonna hate on my jank decks.
Aggro=zombies generally, and zombies just can't seem to handle Thragtusk. Also, the 5cmc lotuses are usually what allows me to play a tusk and then flicker it with ghostly flicker. The zealous conscripts plays well against zombies. As for other aggro, like naya, it is a bit tougher, but doable. Thragtusk is the worst thing for aggro to see. I have a sideboard with pillar of flame to deal with Strangleroot and Huntmaster, and zealous conscripts is really mean to silverheart and resto angel. The 2 essence scatters are very helpful against aggro, along with turn 3-4 acidic slimes to totally screw their curve plus a chump blocker. Clone is for Geist of st Traft, and RDW, I admitted above, that it is a tough matchup, which is why there are 4 negates in side. I usually drop the sages in that match.
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On jace
By WeNeedControl
i tested jace tonight and its one of the worst planeswalkers. it never really does anything except make u lose. i suggest u sell yours for 17 each like i did.
then again on valakut
ROFL what? Valakut? The best card in standard is Jace the mind Sculptor
hm.... interesting.
Haters gonna hate on my jank decks.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
Ghostly flicker is all star. All the time. Never stop running it. It is so blessedly good. Mo flicka. It is what makes the deck good, because if they get rid of your navigator, you are dead with out it. But with ghostly flicker, it lets you keep up the shenanigans.
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On jace
By WeNeedControl
i tested jace tonight and its one of the worst planeswalkers. it never really does anything except make u lose. i suggest u sell yours for 17 each like i did.
then again on valakut
ROFL what? Valakut? The best card in standard is Jace the mind Sculptor
hm.... interesting.
Haters gonna hate on my jank decks.
Ghostly flicker is all star. All the time. Never stop running it. It is so blessedly good. Mo flicka. It is what makes the deck good, because if they get rid of your navigator, you are dead with out it. But with ghostly flicker, it lets you keep up the shenanigans.
Well now that isn't true. The deck isn't a shenanigans deck. Its rug aggro that has a combo-win.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
the second i saw this combo i was hooked i have been pondering it over and am unsure if rug is the color combination that i want to play as soon as i get some time im going to put a list together and i will post
NOTE
we have to be able to beat GOST while still being able to push off zombies and other aggressive stratagies, and right now i am uncertain how (ambushing it with a snapper wont work)
Don't you want Cavern of Souls to make your life easier against counters? I fail to see any copies among all the lists posted here. You pieces are of different creature type, but making even one of them resolve should be an asset, IMO.
this of me is important op already said our matchup is good vs bant tho, but still i have been testing 2 borderland ranger been helpfull for me just reliable getting to 5 mana is good
I run 8 sweepers main, that is normally enough. I've never actually encountered issue with it.
I see cavern as something playable, but not an autoinclude by any means. It just doesn't add enough to always merit inclusion.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
No, the flicker really does annihilate. It is usually why the deck works. No joke. It is a shenanigans deck, that what it is called when you deadeye a thragtusk. pure shenanigans. Anyway, not only does it bring shenanigans, but ghostly flicker can also protect your mana dorks which is very helpful. And nothing pisses off your opponent more than a ghostly flicker on your tusk and dork/conscripts in response to removal. The deck has 4 flicker spells without ghostly and a lot of things to flicker. Also, the lotuses make the flicker into a free cloud shift, or it can set up a mini combo with zealous plus lotus. Ghostly flicker is pure win and it never fails me.
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On jace
By WeNeedControl
i tested jace tonight and its one of the worst planeswalkers. it never really does anything except make u lose. i suggest u sell yours for 17 each like i did.
then again on valakut
ROFL what? Valakut? The best card in standard is Jace the mind Sculptor
hm.... interesting.
Haters gonna hate on my jank decks.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
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Combo
Deadeye Lotus Combo
Table of Contents
1. Me
2. Pre-rotation deck
3. The Essence of Combo
4. Losses
5. New Cards
6. Possible Cards
7. Post Rotation Decklists
About Me
Hi. I'm Glmyrpost. I'm a distinctly johnny player. I'm a reasonably casual guy. I like playing funny decks. However, I'm a johnny spike. I do rather like winning (split for 1st in 2 of my previous 4 fnms). I never played delver or cawblade. I'm simic. I don't have a favorite color (in magic terms). I'm rather good at limited, being first or second in my last 5 limited events, sealed and draft. I've only played 5 limited events :D.
This deck is my baby. I generally switch decks from week to week, moth to month. I've played everything odd (and some not so odd). Zombies, genesis wave elves, BATS, GATS, Primal surge, and a number of others, and that is just this standard season. Don't even get me started on EDH, for which I have a few funny decks.
Pre-Rotation deck
This is the deck that I ran on the final night before rotation, it has some substandard choices, but overall played out rather well. You'll be able to tell that parts of it were cobbled together and things looked...odd:
3 hinterland harbor
2 sulfur falls
1 rootbound crag
5 island
8 forest
5 mountain
Creature 18
2 birds of paradise
2 elvish visionary
1 augur of bolas
1 deceiver exarch
2 solemn simulacrum
3 acidic slime
2 zealous conscripts
1 thragtusk
4 Deadeye Navigator
2 door to nothingness
4 guilded lotus
1 trading post
Sorcery 5
4 slagstorm
1 red sun's zenith
instant 6
3 vapor snag
2 dissipate
1 blue sun's zenith
3 grafdigger's cage
2 staff of nin
1 blue sun's zenith
4 ancient grudge
2 increasing confusion
1 naturalize
1 asceticism
1 redirect
This decklist is obviously awful looking. I actually didn't realize while playing it how many issues it had (I thought I had 4 conscripts, apparently I let someone borrow them). Even with this set up, it performed reasonably well. I went 2-2 (5-5), losing a deciding match due to misplays on my part. However, enough about me. More about the deck.
The Essence of Combo
Deadeye Lotus is a combo deck. What does that mean? It means that the deck wins through a combination of cards doing something degenerate that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do. This is how combo decks work. It isn't that simple though. A combo is, by definition easy to disrupt. You need to get a set of cards together or the deck fizzles.
To look at this, lets analyze an older but relatively recent form of combo deck: Exarch tWin. This deck worked by attaching a splinter twin to a deceiver exarch and proceeding to attack with a frightening quantity of hasty 1/4 dudes.
Why was this form of combo competitive? Two reasons: it had lots of disruption. Splinter twin played counters, board wipes, and other forms of removal to slow aggro and keep people from killing it before the combo went off. The second is that it could protect its combo. The combo could go off as early as turn 4 (3 in some RUG builds), with exarch being flashed in eot turn 3 and the enchantment being played turn 4, winning the game. This enabled the deck to have counter mana open almost all the time, and only be vulnerable at one point. Against control decks, it went slower and kept counters open and available to protect itsself even better.
This teaches us a few lessons that we need to keep in mind when building our own deck: The combo needs to be difficult to disrupt, the combo needs to protect itsself, the combo needs to disrupt the opponent, and each individual piece needs to be playable on its own. These four basic principles are necessary when building a deck. Lets look at our deck and see how well they apply.
1. The combo needs to be difficult to disrupt
Unlike most 'good' combo decks, Deadeye Lotus has 3 pieces. This is a weakness that needs to be taken care of by its other aspects, since this means that it is much more difficult to assemble than a 2 piece combo deck. Luckily, each individual piece is rather difficult to disrupt. Gilded Lotus isn't a threatening card until too late, so won't often be removed. Furthermore, there isn't a huge quantity of artifact destruction played often in control decks. Aggro decks might have some, but it isn't greatly likely. Permanent destruction and things like O-ring are the bigger danger.
Zealous conscripts is probably the most easy to disrupt combo piece. It is, once played, a vanilla 3/3. Not exactly hard to get rid of. The navigator however is probably the single more annoying to remove creature in the game, since it also manages to protect any creature you have out at the time. Overall, the deck can be disrupted, but in testing it rarely faces it. That might change though. Meta based most likely. We also have ways to mitigate disruption, mostly having to do with reasonable quantities of card draw and things like that.
2. The combo needs to protect itsself
We are playing blue, red, and green. That gives us counterspells, bounce, burn, limited forms of permanent destruction, oh...and acidic slime. That seems like enough ways to protect itsself.
3. The combo needs to disrupt the opponent
What was that I said about blue, red and green? We can kill things, counter things, and make things go away. That seems good enough. And it is in most cases. More importantly, once the combo has gone off, you either win on the spot or have a very strong softlock against the opponent for as long as you need
4. The combo pieces must be good on their own
Deadeye is one of the best cards even in non 60 card constructed. He's rather good in our deck with (nearly) any other card. Conscripts saw play in naya pod and red midrange strats because of the advantage it provides, and that is still true. He can win games alone. Finally, lotus is probably the best ramp card in the format (with birds and prime time gone). The addition of cards like acidic slime and elvish visionary give you advantage when played and even more when paired with deadeye.
Losses
So we lose a number of cards with RTR. That is a sad thing, but reasonable, and we do have replacements for many, however a lot of them involve splashing white, something I am loathe to do, but has been performing reasonably in testing.
Birds of paradise - Best replacement: arbor elves, alternatives: deathrite shaman and avacyn's pilgrim. The pilgrim may be better depending on land counts.
Red sun's zenith - devil's play, arguably better anyway
Blue sun's zenith - Sphinx's Revelation, gains life at the cost of stretching the manabase, also won't win you the game in a pinch
Solemn Simulacrum - A big hit, can be replaced with (among other things), izzet keyrune for a similar effect at the loss of the repeatable draw effect
slagstorm - Probably the single biggest loss, mizzium mortars and electrickery can replace it, but not quite as well.
vapor snag - Replaced almost perfectly by Unsummon
Some of these are reasonably sized losses, but all other than slagstorm have very direct replacements, hopefully slagstorm won't turn out to be as necessary as I previously thought, or we will be able to stall for a mizzium mortars.
New Cards
We also gain a number of cards with RTR. Many of them are options for finishers, though there are some cards that stall reasonably well and will do well early game. Here is a list of cards that could be included in a deck
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius - Instant win with combo, alt win condition on his own.
Sweepers - There are 3 new red sweepers, each isn't as good as slagstomr, but they function well together.
Cyclonic Rift - Sweeper that also functions as early spot removal/tempo control
Inspriation - Instant speed draw, can function as an alt win con with tamayo ult or nivix guildmage
Syncopate - Solid tempo counter, probably not as good as dissipate
Izzet Charm - Possible inclusion because of the roles it fills (removal, filter, tempo)
Ash Zealot -
Counterflux -
Nivix Guildmage - Instant win with combo, as he instant speed draws a win condition and can copy spells (like inspiration or burn) to win the game
Dryad Militant - Very solid sideboard material
Any suggestions appreciated.
Possible Cards
Post Rotation Decklists
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 Elvish Visionary
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Zealous Conscripts
4 Deadeye Navigator
2 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
4 Gilded Lotus
Instants 10
3 Dissipate
3 Unsummon
2 Electrickery
2 Street Spasm
Sorceries 4
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Rootbound Crag
4 Hinterland Harbor
6 Forest
2 Island
3 Mountain
4 Arbor Elf
2 Elvish Visionary
2 Lyev Skyknight
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Zealous Conscripts
4 Deadeye Navigator
Sorceries
4 Mizzium Mortars
Instants
2 Electrickery
2 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Unsummon
3 Dissipate
4 Gilded Lotus
Land 24
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Temple Garden
4 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Rootbound Crag
4 Hinterland Harbor
1 Plains
4 Forest
2 Island
3 Mountain
3 Street Spasm
2 New Prahv Guildmage
2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
2 Dryad Militant
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Feeling of Dread
Sideboard is still obviously debatable, but those are some options.
[under construction]
More to come, decklists up tomorrow. Feel free to suggest, discuss, etc.
Modern:
Bant Eldrazi
Merfolk
Abzan Company
EDH:
Mono-Green Omnath
Mono-White Odric Soup
Mono-Blue Muzzio
Mono-Red Feldon
Modern:
Bant Eldrazi
Merfolk
Abzan Company
EDH:
Mono-Green Omnath
Mono-White Odric Soup
Mono-Blue Muzzio
Mono-Red Feldon
The only thing that can be hit with decay is the lotus, conscripts can bounce the other pieces. You can also always combo off in response to an activation.
Fireball, swing with tokens, etc. This will come with decklists and such, since it depends on what finisher you use.
This basically, or niv, or huntmaster, or thragtusk. All of those are instawins basically.
Yeap, I'll explain it clearly this afternoon, when I'm on a better connection
Update on testing: favorable MUs against bant aggro, since the deck can play out as RUG(w?) beatdown without the combo.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Cyclonic rift? It was an option, but I often unsummon my own creatures anyway, since they dodge removal and then are more value when replayed.
That was a remnant of the RUG/w testing, avacyn's pilgrim worked better there anyway. Farseek would be better, but I'm unsure if I want farseek or gatecreeper vine in the 2 cmc slot. Creeper doesn't ramp, but it colorfixes just as well, provides a body, and can fetch land later (I really want solemn simulacrum back)
It is absolutely wonderful, I agree.
A combination of conscripts and huntmasters wins almost as often as the combo. The deck is RUG agg/r/amp with deadeye for added value.
Toolboxing isn't generally good without cards that fetch stuff. Be careful of birthing pod/GSZ syndrome.
Both versions are supposed to have acidic slime, I'm not sure how that slipped though. Thragtusk and huntmaster serve nearly the same role, the tusker just costs 1 more and thus is in the same spot as conscripts. Therefore, I run huntmaster over him. He's certainly an option though.
Yeah, the combo dodges abrupt decay, and lantern will be a dead play if abrupt is played against it.
Remember that huntmaster/deadeye does what thragtusk does, just slightly smaller numbers. Acidic slime, as said deserves a spot and that was a horrible oversight on my part.
Magmaquake seems reasonable, I think bonfire is less impressive than mortars, since its either 9 or 5 mana to do what mortars always does for 6. Plus mortars is useful earlygame as spot removal. Magmaquake seems very, very good over street spasm.
This is a perfectly good sweeper package, and I think it would work great.
Temblor is bad. Its awful, I've tried. Its bad. Electrickery also takes care of tokens/delver very well.
Also a reasonable possibility, I don't know how big the loss in consistency is, but it deserves a test if nothing else.
That was one of my alt wincons. Believe it or not, much of this is addressed in upcoming updates.
Its an option, I am unsure what to take out though, the decklist is very tight as is.
Furthermore, every piece is good. Conscripts wins the game alone. Deadeye and anything wins/stalls the game effectively. Lotus is amazing ramp.
I am expecting that both the simic and gruul cards we get will be more than useful in this deck, especially since it is more simic than izzet, and more gruul than izzet as well.
Great suggestions all around.
Updates incoming.
I really wanna play this deck for a FNM. How viable has this been on a highly competetive level?
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Oh god, I never realized that. The plot thickens
It has favorable matchups against bant and jund, the biggest issues are aggro decks, since they can kill you before you really get board presence, hence the 17 sweeper spells.
4 Deadeye Navigator
4 Zealous Conscripts
Artifacts:
4 Gilded Lotus
3 Izzet Keyrune
4 Terminus
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Sphinx's Revalation
2 Azorious Charm
3 Izzet Charm
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Feeling of Dread
2 Reforge the Soul
2 Devil's Play
The list is more of a UWR miracle deck with a combo built in. I'm not sure I have enough win cons though...
I understand that green brings good lifegain in huntmaster and thragtusk. I just think that sweepers are more efficient than whatever lifegain huntmaster could bring.
My decks
Top 4 (4th) SCG IQ 11/4/12
It works pretty well simply because of Acidic Slime and Thragtusk, and the combo just seals the deal. Acidic Slime protects the combo from oblivion rings and it locks down fringe token decks and other enchantment heavy decks. It has a bonus of finishing the game on its own through land wiping. Thragtusk lets you live a bit longer to get off the combo and he also lets you stand a chance against zombies. Zealous is good even without the combo, as he can finish the game against zombies because you can sacrifice their Falkenrath Aristocrat or take that and a blood artist through flickering the conscripts and just sac your field and win. There are a lot of cool things the conscripts can do with Ghostly Flicker like take 1 of their attackers and use it to trade with their other attacker. It can also take an intangible virtue, after they declare attackers, take a blood artist in response to a killing wave, etc..
This deck is slightly vulnerable to RDW, because of things like Flames of the Firebrand, which can kill multiple mana dorks, a thragtusk, an acidic slime, or a zealous conscripts before you get your deadeye out, who can flicker the creature in response. This is why i have a sideboard built heavily to counter that deck, along with a few cards for zombies, WU delver, and RU delver.
By WeNeedControl
then again on valakut
hm.... interesting.
Haters gonna hate on my jank decks.
By WeNeedControl
then again on valakut
hm.... interesting.
Haters gonna hate on my jank decks.
By WeNeedControl
then again on valakut
hm.... interesting.
Haters gonna hate on my jank decks.
Well now that isn't true. The deck isn't a shenanigans deck. Its rug aggro that has a combo-win.
NOTE
we have to be able to beat GOST while still being able to push off zombies and other aggressive stratagies, and right now i am uncertain how (ambushing it with a snapper wont work)
I run 8 sweepers main, that is normally enough. I've never actually encountered issue with it.
I see cavern as something playable, but not an autoinclude by any means. It just doesn't add enough to always merit inclusion.
By WeNeedControl
then again on valakut
hm.... interesting.
Haters gonna hate on my jank decks.
Not at all, most (soon more) will be one sided.
Magmaquake is worse than bonfire in almost every way.