Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
I'm trying a Junk deck with favoured targets being Eternal Witness & Graveyard X and Sun Titan & Graveyard X. Actually, Recursive X & Anything seems decent.
A decent graveyard target that doesn't depend on anything else for the in-hand creature is Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. He needs a creature-heavy list to work, though (and preferably good ways to kill your own creatures).
I feel like this card is too slow to do anything. You can play Dredge instead, which is significantly faster. You could play Gifts, which is just as fast, and netting the creature AND reanimation spell. I agree with Chromatone, I'd be more interested in Grisly Salvage, which is reasonably costed and you can easily do some work with.
Gifts is just better for the reanimation setup, as well as being a more powerful card, an instant and always creating card advantage. I don't really see many reasons why you would play this over gifts aside from the colors (gifts requires uw for reanimation, this requires ugb).
Gifts and orders are very different cards. Orders isn't as well suited to reanimator, but it can do a lot of other very different things. I wouldn't compare the two.
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Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
Gifts is also better at creating card advantage and doesn't specify a specific card type. It can also set up numerous engines such as academy ruins, life of the loam, engineered explosives. Jarad's order is better if you want to find trinket mage and vengevine to recur a vengevine, but 7 power for a total of 7 mana isn't that good either. Paying 4 mana to tutor for a creature isn't that great either. I have trouble imagining a situation in which you want to put a creature in your graveyard, a creature in your hand, yet Gifts Ungiven is not the better choice.
Having access to 8 Gifts Ungiven effects can push a combo deck over the top. Twin, for example, can play virtually 8 copies of both its combo pieces. Kiki-Jiki is slightly worse than Splinter Twin because it costs 1 more mana, but it's still worth playing to increase the consistency of the deck and its resilience to Extraction effects. Likewise with Gifts and Orders; Orders might be worse, but you should leap at being given the chance to play 8 4-mana "resolve this and I win" spells in a combo deck.
This article might be worth your time. It uses Gifts Ungiven for some toolbox creatures, or to set up a Reveillark/Project X loop. Jarad's Orders does the same thing, making it a valuable addition.
too easy to counter? What kind of reasoning is that, all spells that don't read "can't be counter by spells or abilities your opponents control" are as easily countered as any other. There is much more to this card than the fact that somebody will counter it if they get the chance, in fact most good spells should be countered if you get the chance. Try again.
"Too easy to counter" is quite valid reasoning if you depend solely on the card to win or to disrupt opponents heavily. I was desperate enough to try Rakdos's Return as a 3-of in my RG Artifact Tron sideboard--tried boarding it in against Hive Mind (pulled 3 Pyroclasms) as a test and assumed Hive Mind boarded nothing in. Sticking that virtual Wit's End would have been nice, but it got Remanded and even Pact of Negationed (and Hive Mind paid for it) all day. Yeah, that's not what I want for sideboard combo hate.
I am now desperate enough to try 3 Slaughter Games in the board instead. I can cast that card about as quickly (I play 2 Prophetic Prism along with 8 Chromatic Eggs, so it's surprisingly easy to cast), it helps against similar combo decks (Hive Mind, Scapeshift, Exarch Twin, UR Storm, etc.), and being uncounterable is crucial.
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Actually, "too easily countered" is even more valid reasoning when, at the times you do stick it, it doesn't do enough to win. I tried the same Rakdos's Return plan against UR Storm and UR Storm won a game after losing at least nearly all its hand (I forgot whether it lost its entire hand or all but 1 card) to that card. Granted, that's the power of sticking Pyromancer Ascension.
The power of Gifts Ungiven is that, with the Fatty-Unburial Rites pile, it can lock opponents out of the game immediately afterward. Being an instant also helps. That is why it still sees significant play despite being a 4-cmc card that does not immediately affect the board. Unfortunately, my sample Jarad's Orders piles (Eternal Witness/Sun Titan + Anything) cannot do the same.
What about the double demigod plan? 9 mana over two turns for 10 hasty power? What if you already have a demigod in hand? Now you've got another 15 coming if they take care of the first two. That seems like a pretty powerful play, and it's something gifts can't do.
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Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
i think this card has more versatility than people give it credit for. double tutoring is a powerful effect even at 4 mana.
being able to fetch a land (i.e. dryad arbor) as well as a creature (i.e. bloodghast) can make for some fun plays. instant bloodghast, just add arbor. har-har. but seriously this kind of interaction can be exactly what a deck needs.
there's a lot of potential here - and even though 4 mana is rough, it could be exactly the kind of tutoring effect that wins you a game on the spot.
i'm not saying i have all the answers or interactions, but just at a cursory glance it looks like you could work a lot of power into this card as a double-tutoring effect. making a creature hit the bin is often something you really want.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
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What kind of decks does this card enable? Are there any combos?
Off the top of my head, you can fetch...
Demigod of revenge + Demigod of Revenge
Body Double + Iona or something
Necrotic Ooze + Griselbrand
Memnite + Vengevine (and hopefully return vengevine that turn)
Slitherhead + Memnite 4 mana 2/2! Wooohooo!
Vengeful pharaoh + Fauna Shaman
Something with dredge + Tarmogoyf or Knight of the reliquary or Lord of extinction
Phantasmagorian + Reckless Wurm or Nightshade Assassin or Big Game Hunter
Anyway, any other ideas?
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
To that tune, Crypt Champion & Saffi Eriksdotter/Phantasmal Image seems fairly good as infinite ETB/dies triggers.
A decent graveyard target that doesn't depend on anything else for the in-hand creature is Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. He needs a creature-heavy list to work, though (and preferably good ways to kill your own creatures).
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Having access to 8 Gifts Ungiven effects can push a combo deck over the top. Twin, for example, can play virtually 8 copies of both its combo pieces. Kiki-Jiki is slightly worse than Splinter Twin because it costs 1 more mana, but it's still worth playing to increase the consistency of the deck and its resilience to Extraction effects. Likewise with Gifts and Orders; Orders might be worse, but you should leap at being given the chance to play 8 4-mana "resolve this and I win" spells in a combo deck.
3 combos stand out for me:
Body Double + Reveillark
Saffi Eriksdotter + Crypt Champion (a.k.a. Project X)
Protean Hulk + Footsteps of the Goryo/Through the Breach (enabling one of the above two combos; Body Double + sac outlet can stand in for one of the reanimation spells)
This article might be worth your time. It uses Gifts Ungiven for some toolbox creatures, or to set up a Reveillark/Project X loop. Jarad's Orders does the same thing, making it a valuable addition.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
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Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
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Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
too easy to counter? What kind of reasoning is that, all spells that don't read "can't be counter by spells or abilities your opponents control" are as easily countered as any other. There is much more to this card than the fact that somebody will counter it if they get the chance, in fact most good spells should be countered if you get the chance. Try again.
I am now desperate enough to try 3 Slaughter Games in the board instead. I can cast that card about as quickly (I play 2 Prophetic Prism along with 8 Chromatic Eggs, so it's surprisingly easy to cast), it helps against similar combo decks (Hive Mind, Scapeshift, Exarch Twin, UR Storm, etc.), and being uncounterable is crucial.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually, "too easily countered" is even more valid reasoning when, at the times you do stick it, it doesn't do enough to win. I tried the same Rakdos's Return plan against UR Storm and UR Storm won a game after losing at least nearly all its hand (I forgot whether it lost its entire hand or all but 1 card) to that card. Granted, that's the power of sticking Pyromancer Ascension.
The power of Gifts Ungiven is that, with the Fatty-Unburial Rites pile, it can lock opponents out of the game immediately afterward. Being an instant also helps. That is why it still sees significant play despite being a 4-cmc card that does not immediately affect the board. Unfortunately, my sample Jarad's Orders piles (Eternal Witness/Sun Titan + Anything) cannot do the same.
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
being able to fetch a land (i.e. dryad arbor) as well as a creature (i.e. bloodghast) can make for some fun plays. instant bloodghast, just add arbor. har-har. but seriously this kind of interaction can be exactly what a deck needs.
there's a lot of potential here - and even though 4 mana is rough, it could be exactly the kind of tutoring effect that wins you a game on the spot.
i'm not saying i have all the answers or interactions, but just at a cursory glance it looks like you could work a lot of power into this card as a double-tutoring effect. making a creature hit the bin is often something you really want.