Well, this is very simple: The idea is to post a list of nine cards that you would think as the 10th to 18th power cards from all the ones printed to nowadays (mana fixing lands as dual lands or fetchlands would count as all in one.) I'm planning to stablish a virtual "sub power9" list based on the info compilated here to be used in the artwork forum contests in the upcomming editions. You're also invited to justify your choices (no need to do so if you don't want to/don't have time.)
(updated 10/17/2012)
NOTES: * Votes for the ranking will count ONLY if proivided as part of a top 9 list. Also, please include just tournament legal cards in your voting (banned and resatricted cards that were tournament legal anytime, then got cutted, still valid for this purpouse. Cards like ante cards, Xtmas special cards, Richard Garfield's limited promos, etc are not valid since 10/16/2012. * Once a list is added to the ranking, changes done to it will not be counted (so please, stablish your list carefuly before posting.) * We're going to run a poll, in case of a tie between cards inside and outside of the top 9.
* Alphabetical order is going to be followed just from 1st to 9th card.
Last post counted in: Whitemage57's (#90)
# of Voters:53
*Ranking results will be contabilized October 31th for contest purpouses. Beside that, it will stay indefinitely open (and will still being updated.) Again, thanks for your help!
(10/31/2012) EDIT: The first cut for the ranking has been done, and here are our winners:
Thanks to the 47 voters who helped us to stablish this list! From now and so on, you're invited to keep providing us with your lists, whose will be added to the ranking as time goes on (only one list per person, please.)
Also, Hymn to Tourach is currently the highest rated card on Gatherer.
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UUU Talrand, Sky Summoner // (W/U)(W/U)(W/U) Grand Arbiter Augustin IV // RRR Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker // (R/G)(R/G)(R/G) Wort, the Raidmother // URG Riku of Two Reflections // RWU Ruhan of the Fomori
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This is why I started playing magic in the first place. It wasn't PT aspirations just making noobs cry by doing things that are perfectly fair.
I think Skullclamp actually belongs on this list. It's fundamentally broken in a way that would warp literally any format completely. Imagine Yawgmoth's Will in Innistrad Block Limited, for example. Value, sure, but not really that scary. Skullclamp? Broke. The only cards I would call more broken than Skullclamp since, say, Revised are Necropotence and Tinker, and I'm not even sure about Tinker. The presence of Skullclamp in literally any format's card pool (except maybe Vintage, but I'm no expert) would completely warp the format and allow for broken plays the likes of which very, very few cards are capable of enabling.
My list:
Library of Alexandria
Mana Drain
Necropotence
Yawgmoth's Will
Tinker
Skullclamp
Strip Mine
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt
Bazaar and Workshop have to be the best. They're the only ones that have good Vintage decks based around them outside of Power. Not even close. This assumes that you correctly identify Time Vault as Power 9 and Timetwister as trash.
Fast mana is what defines the P9. ABU Duals don't belong here, I think the idea that a cycle can take up one spot is incorrect. P9 has a cycle of 5, so P10-18 shouldn't get to justify its existence because of a cycle taking one spot.
ABU Duals don't belong here, I think the idea that a cycle can take up one spot is incorrect. P9 has a cycle of 5, so P10-18 shouldn't get to justify its existence because of a cycle taking one spot.
Making the whole fixing land cycles as one single spot is just for bringing more options to the contests in whose this info will be used. Anyway, this is not the original ranking of the power nine, neither it follows the same rules. We can actually think: "Why haven't they just made the five moxes as a one single spot in the power nine ranking, in order to free more space for these cards that are worth making it in but couldn't?" After all, each of the moxes mean exactly the same for the power9 list. They're not there because, separately, each of them is better that the cards listed here. They're there because of the capability of giving colored mana for 0 without losing a landrop, wich is a common quality. Personally, I feel there are 4 wasted spots in the original list...
Bazaar and Workshop have to be the best. They're the only ones that have good Vintage decks based around them outside of Power. Not even close. This assumes that you correctly identify Time Vault as Power 9 and Timetwister as trash.
That is because they aren't restricted. Cards like Sol Ring being restricted doesn't mean they are less powerful than Bazaar and Workshop.
Yawgmoth's Win, Library of Alexandria and Tolarian Academy in that order. Yawgmoth's Will is the most often-mentioned card for arguing a ban due to power level.
Edit: k Flash, Sol Ring, Tinker, Mana Vault, Necropotence, Force of Will.
Yawgmoth's Win, Library of Alexandria and Tolarian Academy in that order. Yawgmoth's Will is the most often-mentioned card for arguing a ban due to power level.
It would be great if you complete your list of nine candidates in order to validate these three votes you made.
Making the whole fixing land cycles as one single spot is just for bringing more options to the contests in whose this info will be used. Anyway, this is not the original ranking of the power nine, neither it follows the same rules. We can actually think: "Why haven't they just made the five moxes as a one single spot in the power nine ranking, in order to free more space for these cards that are worth making it in but couldn't?" After all, each of the moxes mean exactly the same for the power9 list. They're not there because, separately, each of them is better that the cards listed here. They're there because of the capability of giving colored mana for 0 without losing a landrop, wich is a common quality. Personally, I feel there are 4 wasted spots in the original list...
You talk like the power 9 started by asking what the 9 most powerful cards on magic were. That's not what that list is. They're the fundamentally most powerful cards ever printed in ABU. If you condensed the moxen to one slot, you'd end up with the power 5. What wouldn't happen is yawgmoths will and tinker and library and bazaar of baghdad joining the 9. They were all printed in later sets.
10.) Bazaar of Bahgdad
11.) Sol Ring
12.) Mishra's Workshop
13.) Tolarian Academy
14.) Yawgmoth's Will
15.) Library of Alexandria
16.) Tinker
17.) Demonic Tutor
18.) Mana Drain
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I write about cube and run cube drafts on magic online.
It's called "Yawgwin" for a reason. I heard replaying Black Lotus, Demonic Tutor, Time Walk, etc. was pretty good. Notably, Regrowth is also restricted, and Yawgwin is just one more mana.
A monkey could have designed a more balanced card. Essentially a game-winning card if it resolves. Has tons of pals because artifact is the strongest type in the game.
A card that only truly becomes bonkers when you have 4 of them in your deck, and playing one leads to another one, and another one, and another one... It's an example of everything wrong with Storm.
Wins you the game with anything that untaps it. That's stupid.
Bazaar of Baghdad and Mishra's Workshop aren't included on my list because, while they are very powerful cores of two of the best vintage decks of all time, they still aren't restricted because they don't break vintage and make it "Heads I win, tails I lose" like the above do. I tried not to include tutors because any cheap tutor is broken mainly for its ability to tutor good cards.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
In order from best to worst, if you can call it that.
1. Yawgmoth's Will. In any format that will is legal in it will undoubtedly warp it either blatantly or in more subtle ways. When this card was in standard it was unheard of for you not to include at least 1 copy in your deck. In vintage people maindeck graveyard hate because of this card and dredge. I'd say it's more because of will though, as will resolving = GG's assuming the player who just resolved will isn't a donkey.
2. Sol Ring
The colorless mox that is arguably BETTER than moxen as untapping with sol ring provides you with 2 mana versus 1 mana, and that is a gigantic difference in magic. If it were legal in vintage it would assuredly wreak havoc.
3. Necropotence
"Necropotence." "It resolves." "Are you going to scoop now?" One of the most broken cards in the game by far. The running joke is that most people can't beat the 2 card hand of necro and black lotus. The card advantage generated by just this card is simply obscene.
4. Bazaar of Baghdad
Turn 1 bazaar. Activate it. Dump golgari grave-troll x3 in the graveyard. Next turn dredge all 3 essentially drawing 18 cards or a number close to 18. The fact that bazaar of baghdad exists has warped vintage for about 5+ years now. When people are maindecking leyline of the void and company just to stop this card it proves its brokenness.
5. Tinker
Okay, so I'll tutor for the best card in my deck and put it directly into play. All for 2U and the low cost of sacrificing an artifact. When I untap next turn I win. Sounds incredibly fair, right? I hear black lotus is a card. Well, I'm black lotus x3 and demonic tutor all tucked into one neat little package. How wonderful.
6. Mishra's Workshop
So I heard tapping for 3 mana on turn 1 is fair. It's great when I drop trinisphere turn 1, as my opponent lacking an answer means that I effectively win on the spot. And guess what I get to do after dropping 3sphere? Play more cards while my opponent gets to play nothing at all.
7. Balance
This card is not balanced. When this card resolves, babies cry. In the right deck this card creates a lopsided advantage when this card resolves (think of how good it feels to go turn 1 mox pearl sol ring turn 2 more moxen into balance. Or when you open with mox sapphire, mox pearl, balance, ancestral recall and nothing else, leaving your opponent with almost nothing at all.
8. Demonic tutor
So I heard getting any card for just 1B is pretty balanced. I mean what has WotC printed in the last few years? Oh yeah all the tutors the last few years in black have costed 4 or more I forgot about that. Sets up any number of degenerate combos or protection for said combos. The card literally fetches the best card in your deck upon resolution.
9. Lion's Eye Diamond
So I heard discarding your hand isn't really a drawback with a burning wish/demonic tutor/anything of relevance is on the stack. And black lotus is fair right?
Honorable mentions to dark ritual, mana drain, strip mine, time vault, and tolarian academy.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
10. Sol Ring - If this had been printed as a rare we would have had the P10 to begin with.
11. Library of Alexandria - A very common first pick in cube drafting. No matter what else you are running it's hard to lose when you have one of these online.
12. Time Vault - When it's not being nerfed it's a source for cheap infinite-turn combos (read cheap game-winning combos).
13. Dark Ritual - Mana almost as fast as black lotus.
14. Necropotence - Anyone who lived through the black summer knows that it's impossible to overcome an opponent who just drew half their library.
15. Strip Mine - Uncounterable 0-cmc land removal.
16. Fastbond - Turns all of your land into moxes.
17. Yawgmoth's Will - If your spells didn't kill them the first time around, just play them all again. It also enables storm like a pro.
18. Tolarian Academy - The finest in artifact acceleration.
Cards that didn't make the list:
Bazaar - Too narrow for a P9 list. It's easy to abuse and a pillar of vintage but you have to build your deck around it.
Workshop - Most of the time it's inferior to Academy. Both of these cards see a LOT of play in my circle. It's good but just not as good.
Balance & Demonic Tutor - If I could go to 20 these would have made the list, I just couldn't make room for them. Balance is usually a 1-sided 2-mana *** and nothing tutors like the original.
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The Collection:
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
Jace, the Mind Sculptor is already regarded as p10 by a large portion of people, plus he's better than most of the cards listed in the thread, a list without Jace isn't to be taken seriously.
(updated 10/17/2012)
NOTES:
* Votes for the ranking will count ONLY if proivided as part of a top 9 list. Also, please include just tournament legal cards in your voting (banned and resatricted cards that were tournament legal anytime, then got cutted, still valid for this purpouse. Cards like ante cards, Xtmas special cards, Richard Garfield's limited promos, etc are not valid since 10/16/2012.
* Once a list is added to the ranking, changes done to it will not be counted (so please, stablish your list carefuly before posting.)
* We're going to run a poll, in case of a tie between cards inside and outside of the top 9.
Here's my list (in no particular order):
Lion's Eye Diamond
Library of Alexandria
All dual lands
Yawgmoth's Will
Necropotence
Demonic Tutor
Balance
Strip Mine
Mana Drain
Honorable mentions: Survival of the Fittest & Oath of Druids
Thanks for your cooperation!
1st: Yawgmoth's Will 42 votes
2nd: Sol Ring 36 votes
3rd: Tinker 34 votes
4th: Library of Alexandria 30 votes
5th: Necropotence 29 votes
6th: Demonic Tutor 25 votes
7th: Time Vault 25 votes
8th: Tolarian Academy 22 votes
9th: Balance 20 votes
---
10th: Mishra's Workshop 20 votes
11th: Strip Mine: 20 votes
12th: Bazaar of Baghdad 17 votes
13th: Mana Drain 16 votes
14th: Force of Will 15 votes
15th: Mana Crypt 15 votes
16th: Skullclamp 14 votes
17th: Jace, the Mind Sculptor 10 votes
18th: Lion's Eye Diamond 9 votes
19th: Dark Ritual 8 votes
20st: Wheel of Fortune 8 votes
21st: All 5 Dual Lands 7 votes
22nd: Channel 6 votes
23rd: All 10 Fetch Lands 4 votes
24th: Fastbond 4 votes
25th: Memory Jar 4 votes
26th: Brainstorm 3 votes
27th: Mana Vault 3 votes
28th: Umezawa's Jitte 3 votes
29th: Yawgmoth's Bargain 3 votes
30th: Mind Twist 2 votes
31st: Flash 2 votes
32nd: Mind's Desire 2 votes
33rd: Dark Confidant 2 votes
34th: Æther Vial 1 vote
35th: Oath of Druids 1 vote
36th: Wasteland 1 vote
37th: Ad Nauseam 1 vote
38th: Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker 1 vote
39th: Shichifukujin Dragon 1 vote
40th: 1996 World Champion 1 vote
41st: Metalworker 1 vote
42nd: Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 1 vote
43rd: Slash Panter 1 vote
44th: Gifts Ungiven 1 vote
45th: Mox Diamond 1 vote
46th: Counterspell 1 vote
47th: Gaea's Cradle 1 vote
48th: Kokusho, the Evening Star 1 vote
49th: Mental Misstep 1 vote
50th: Armageddon 1 vote
51st: Vampiric Tutor 1 vote
52nd: Griselbrand 1 vote
53rd: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale 1 vote
54th: Stoneforge Mystic 1 vote
55th: Moat 1 vote
56th: Berserk 1 vote
57th: Tarmogoyf 1 vote
58th: ?
* Alphabetical order is going to be followed just from 1st to 9th card.
Last post counted in: Whitemage57's (#90)
# of Voters: 53
(10/31/2012) EDIT: The first cut for the ranking has been done, and here are our winners:
1st: Yawgmoth's Will 37 votes
2nd: Sol Ring 34 votes
3rd: Tinker 30 votes
4th: Library of Alexandria 28 votes
5th: Necropotence 27 votes
6th: Demonic Tutor 24 votes
7th: Strip Mine: 20 votes
8th: Time Vault 20 votes
9th: Balance 19 votes
Thanks to the 47 voters who helped us to stablish this list! From now and so on, you're invited to keep providing us with your lists, whose will be added to the ranking as time goes on (only one list per person, please.)
Tinker
Yawgmoth's Will
Mana Drain
Dark Ritual
Duals, obvs.
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Counterspell
Strip Mine
Aether Vial
Also, Hymn to Tourach is currently the highest rated card on Gatherer.
My list:
Library of Alexandria
Mana Drain
Necropotence
Yawgmoth's Will
Tinker
Skullclamp
Strip Mine
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
Channel
Bazaar of Baghdad
Library of Alexandria
Balance
Mishra's Workshop
Tolarian Academy
Strip Mine
Vampiric Tutor/Demonic Tutor
Honorable Mention: Emrakul
Past in Flames
My List:
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt
Mana Drain
Time Vault
Lion's Eye Diamond
Skullclamp
Tinker
Mishra's Workshop
Mox Diamond
Fast mana is what defines the P9. ABU Duals don't belong here, I think the idea that a cycle can take up one spot is incorrect. P9 has a cycle of 5, so P10-18 shouldn't get to justify its existence because of a cycle taking one spot.
High Number Death Game
20 Questions (with Magic Cards)
That is because they aren't restricted. Cards like Sol Ring being restricted doesn't mean they are less powerful than Bazaar and Workshop.
Edit: k Flash, Sol Ring, Tinker, Mana Vault, Necropotence, Force of Will.
It would be great if you complete your list of nine candidates in order to validate these three votes you made.
Fair point. I still think they belong though. Along with Time Vault.
11: Library of Alexandria
12: Mishra’s Workshop
13: Bazaar of Baghdad
14: Mana Drain
15: Sol Ring
16: Yawgmoth’s Will
17: Balance
18: Demonic Tutor
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
You talk like the power 9 started by asking what the 9 most powerful cards on magic were. That's not what that list is. They're the fundamentally most powerful cards ever printed in ABU. If you condensed the moxen to one slot, you'd end up with the power 5. What wouldn't happen is yawgmoths will and tinker and library and bazaar of baghdad joining the 9. They were all printed in later sets.
11.) Sol Ring
12.) Mishra's Workshop
13.) Tolarian Academy
14.) Yawgmoth's Will
15.) Library of Alexandria
16.) Tinker
17.) Demonic Tutor
18.) Mana Drain
peasantcube.blogspot.com
11) Mishra's Workshop
12) Tolarian Academy
13) Channel
14) Skullclamp
15) Balance
16) Time Vault
17) Tinker
18) Demonic Tutor
10) Yawgmoth's Will
11) Library of Alexandria
12) Bazaar of Baghdad
13) Mishra's Workshop
14) Mana Drain
15) Tinker
16) Skullclamp
17) Dual Lands
18) Dark Ritual
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7868323#post7868323
1. Yawgmoth's Will
Bazaar of Baghdad and Mishra's Workshop aren't included on my list because, while they are very powerful cores of two of the best vintage decks of all time, they still aren't restricted because they don't break vintage and make it "Heads I win, tails I lose" like the above do. I tried not to include tutors because any cheap tutor is broken mainly for its ability to tutor good cards.
Thanks to Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures!
Workshop
Yawgmoth's Will
Tinker
Sol Ring
Balance
Lion's Eye Diamond
Mana Vault
Ad Nauseum
Necropotence
Not really in order there.
Tinker
Library of Alexandria
Mishra's Workshop
Time Vault
Yawgmoth's Will
Sol Ring
Balance
Strip Mine
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
2. yawgmoth's will
3. Demonic tutor
4. necropotence
5. mishra's workshop
6. Dark Ritual
7. Mana Drain
8. Channel
9. Metalworker
10. Mana Crypt
1. Yawgmoth's Will. In any format that will is legal in it will undoubtedly warp it either blatantly or in more subtle ways. When this card was in standard it was unheard of for you not to include at least 1 copy in your deck. In vintage people maindeck graveyard hate because of this card and dredge. I'd say it's more because of will though, as will resolving = GG's assuming the player who just resolved will isn't a donkey.
2. Sol Ring
The colorless mox that is arguably BETTER than moxen as untapping with sol ring provides you with 2 mana versus 1 mana, and that is a gigantic difference in magic. If it were legal in vintage it would assuredly wreak havoc.
3. Necropotence
"Necropotence." "It resolves." "Are you going to scoop now?" One of the most broken cards in the game by far. The running joke is that most people can't beat the 2 card hand of necro and black lotus. The card advantage generated by just this card is simply obscene.
4. Bazaar of Baghdad
Turn 1 bazaar. Activate it. Dump golgari grave-troll x3 in the graveyard. Next turn dredge all 3 essentially drawing 18 cards or a number close to 18. The fact that bazaar of baghdad exists has warped vintage for about 5+ years now. When people are maindecking leyline of the void and company just to stop this card it proves its brokenness.
5. Tinker
Okay, so I'll tutor for the best card in my deck and put it directly into play. All for 2U and the low cost of sacrificing an artifact. When I untap next turn I win. Sounds incredibly fair, right? I hear black lotus is a card. Well, I'm black lotus x3 and demonic tutor all tucked into one neat little package. How wonderful.
6. Mishra's Workshop
So I heard tapping for 3 mana on turn 1 is fair. It's great when I drop trinisphere turn 1, as my opponent lacking an answer means that I effectively win on the spot. And guess what I get to do after dropping 3sphere? Play more cards while my opponent gets to play nothing at all.
7. Balance
This card is not balanced. When this card resolves, babies cry. In the right deck this card creates a lopsided advantage when this card resolves (think of how good it feels to go turn 1 mox pearl sol ring turn 2 more moxen into balance. Or when you open with mox sapphire, mox pearl, balance, ancestral recall and nothing else, leaving your opponent with almost nothing at all.
8. Demonic tutor
So I heard getting any card for just 1B is pretty balanced. I mean what has WotC printed in the last few years? Oh yeah all the tutors the last few years in black have costed 4 or more I forgot about that. Sets up any number of degenerate combos or protection for said combos. The card literally fetches the best card in your deck upon resolution.
9. Lion's Eye Diamond
So I heard discarding your hand isn't really a drawback with a burning wish/demonic tutor/anything of relevance is on the stack. And black lotus is fair right?
Honorable mentions to dark ritual, mana drain, strip mine, time vault, and tolarian academy.
Currently Playing:
Retired
11. Library of Alexandria - A very common first pick in cube drafting. No matter what else you are running it's hard to lose when you have one of these online.
12. Time Vault - When it's not being nerfed it's a source for cheap infinite-turn combos (read cheap game-winning combos).
13. Dark Ritual - Mana almost as fast as black lotus.
14. Necropotence - Anyone who lived through the black summer knows that it's impossible to overcome an opponent who just drew half their library.
15. Strip Mine - Uncounterable 0-cmc land removal.
16. Fastbond - Turns all of your land into moxes.
17. Yawgmoth's Will - If your spells didn't kill them the first time around, just play them all again. It also enables storm like a pro.
18. Tolarian Academy - The finest in artifact acceleration.
Cards that didn't make the list:
Bazaar - Too narrow for a P9 list. It's easy to abuse and a pillar of vintage but you have to build your deck around it.
Workshop - Most of the time it's inferior to Academy. Both of these cards see a LOT of play in my circle. It's good but just not as good.
Balance & Demonic Tutor - If I could go to 20 these would have made the list, I just couldn't make room for them. Balance is usually a 1-sided 2-mana *** and nothing tutors like the original.
Every English card ever printed: 99.02%
Arabian Nights through Lorwyn: Complete
Alpha: 94.2% Beta: 95.0%
Unlimited through M10: Complete
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.