This card came up in discussion on another forum in the last 24-48 hours, and it was mentioned that it was banned in just about every format known to man... except cube.
Eidolon's stats show that it's barely run, if at all. And yet, if you're flipping skills are good enough, it's a colourless Vindicate.
Is it just the availability/expense of the card, and its relative jankiness that stop it getting played in cube? I'm intrigued.
(And yes, I may have chosen the Alpha version of the card for fun reasons!)
It's a polarizing card. Some people just use it as a colorless Vindicate but that's going against the card text and general "fun" of the card.
Of course if you use it as a dexterity card you run into people who take the game a bit too seriously stacking their lands and spreading cards feet apart and all other kinds of problems that arise with the Orb.
Hey did you hear about that one guy who ripped up his Orb at a tournament...:p
Back in the day when this thing was much more common I had a lot of fun with it, and would love one for my cube, gives me the same vibes as some of the un-cards like enter the dungeon. However there are always those guys that make these kind of things as unfun as possible, but I am not inviting any of them to cube anyways. Hrmmm maybe it is time I start making proxies.
I don't build my Cube based on what colors need, but on what we want to play in each color (and it's a 2HG Cube, so very very different from a regular 1v1 Cube). Turns out, we all want to play Chaos Orb!
2HG is the perfect place to impliment the funniest Chaos Orb Errata I have heard. In order to eliminate the crazies who will spread their cards out twenty feet apart we said blindfold the Chaos Orb flipper. Turns out that was completely impossible, except when they hade a little propting from a teammate. That turned it into a very funny, and very chaosy effect, which is usually still very powerfull. But noone was so concerned that they changed their layout habits.
I don't build my Cube based on what colors need, but on what we want to play in each color (and it's a 2HG Cube, so very very different from a regular 1v1 Cube). Turns out, we all want to play Chaos Orb!
But if you're playing it as a colorless Vindicate, and not flipping the card through the air, you're not playing Chaos Orb. You're playing some sort of custom house rule card.
Quote from CadaverousBl00m »
Good thing I brought this one into a proper SCD for the forum, methinks...
No. Bad CadaverousBl00m! We don't need more discussion on this card. The discussions are always super frustrating and get us nowhere as a group. Every time it comes up.
The new cube group I've found have been fine with Chaos Orb. Played as per oracle text and gentlemanly behaviour when it comes to setting out permanents. I'll happily cut it if people start to get bored, but for the moment it is seen as fun and nostalgic.
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I know. I'm just messing with you dude. A lot of groups have a good time with minor house rules and fun changes, and it's not a big deal at all. It's just not for me.
I've never thought about the cube becoming an official sanctioned format, but I suppose it is inevitable. It would be interesting to see if Power and the like will get banned too.
There is not 1 Cube, but every group has their own list / banned list.
However if WotC would decide, that they were to support players cubing with their own lists on Magic Online (after implementing all the missing cards), Chaos Orb and all / most of the Un cards would not be available. So although the card is not officially banned -just because this is no sanctioned format, yet- the fact that it will never be unbanned once the format becomes sanctioned, makes it a banned card in my eyes.
Based on the absolutely insane errata we've seen added to cards like Time Vault (time counters anyone?), or non-intuitive errata on cards like Static Orb or Howling Mine that has come and gone, I wouldn't put it past Wizards to put the Vindicate errata on Chaos Orb. After all, the WotC employee who had a large hand in designing the MTGO cube was one of the first to use the Chaos Orb errata.
I don't understand how people can get down on the Chaos Orb eratta and call them made up cards, but allow for things like free mulligans, disallow sideboards, or play variant formats. This topic continues to come up, and it serves as a constant reminder of people taking themselves way too seriously. Let he who is without any weird eratta or house rules throw the first stone. No one? Now that that's out of the way, why not discuss the merits of the various modes you can play Chaos Orb than debate it's 'legality' or appropriateness in cube.
Chaos Orb errata is a MTG rule. Mulligans, sideboards and formats are tournament rules. Two different things, so it makes sense people have different opinions on these.
Bingo.
Different formats and different tournament settings can have different rules regarding sideboards, mulligans, and even proxies. But one thing that every Magic format uses is Oracle text.
Chaos Orb errata is a MTG rule. Mulligans, sideboards and formats are tournament rules. Two different things, so it makes sense people have different opinions on these.
Again, I'll just throw this out there - what's worse, made up tournament rules or made up cards? It's not a productive conversation either way. If you walk into a Chaos Orb thread, expect to have an open mind the same way as you walk into a 2HG or multiplayer-oriented cube list.
Again, I'll just throw this out there - what's worse, made up tournament rules or made up cards?
Made up cards.
Different gaming clubs come up with their own tournament rules all the time. Including sanctioned play. But every one of those variant tournament formats still abides by the one constant; all Magic cards do the same thing for everybody. The only way to keep that consistent is to use Oracle text and official rulings everywhere.
Different gaming clubs come up with their own tournament rules all the time. Including sanctioned play. But every one of those variant tournament formats still abides by the one constant; all Magic cards do the same thing for everybody. The only way to keep that consistent is to use Oracle text and official rulings everywhere.
I spent a summer drafting with guys who allowed for free mulligans. I have never built more greedy decks. They thought I was a really good player, but it's just because I was building decks with 14 lands, and just milking their free mulligan rule for all it was worth. I would weight something that fundamentally changes the draft and play formats for every player regardless of the contents of the pool far higher than eratta on one card, and it's not close.
I spent a summer drafting with guys who allowed for free mulligans. I have never built more greedy decks. They thought I was a really good player, but it's just because I was building decks with 14 lands, and just milking their free mulligan rule for all it was worth. I would weight something that fundamentally changes the draft and play formats for every player regardless of the contents of the pool far higher than eratta on one card, and it's not close.
They probably play that way because they're all cool guys just playing for fun that don't do this to each other. They're a bunch of guppies that let a shark swim with them for a summer.
But it's also one of the reasons we don't use a free mulligan rule in our tournaments.
They probably play that way because they're all cool guys just playing for fun that don't do this to each other. They're a bunch of guppies that let a shark swim with them for a summer.
But it's also one of the reasons we don't use a free mulligan rule in our tournaments.
I am just illustrating a point. It doesn't matter which aspect you hone in on (rules VS eratta VS format), you have to take yourself outside of your fundamental disagreement of those rules in order to keep conversations productive. Chaos Orb should not be a platform to continually discuss house eratta.
Chaos Orb should not be a platform to continually discuss house eratta.
Until it's not house errata, it always will be.
As soon as the official Oracle text makes it a colorless Vindicate, I'll include it as such. But as long as the text says "flip" that's how it should be played, IMO. Anything else will simply feel like cubing with pretend cards. To me.
But as I said earlier in the thread:
I know. I'm just messing with you dude. A lot of groups have a good time with minor house rules and fun changes, and it's not a big deal at all. It's just not for me.
Keeping the discussion light and fun, until someone got all :facepalm:-y over it.
No. Bad CadaverousBl00m! We don't need more discussion on this card. The discussions are always super frustrating and get us nowhere as a group. Every time it comes up.
Haha! No, good that I brought it into an SCD, so that anyone else looking to talk about it in the future is going to find pages of circular discussion (and hopefully not rehash it again). Definitely not in the sense that I'm unwittingly restarting old arguments!
Haha! No, good that I brought it into an SCD, so that anyone else looking to talk about it in the future is going to find pages of circular discussion (and hopefully not rehash it again). Definitely not in the sense that I'm unwittingly restarting old arguments!
I cubed with chaos orb in the first version of my cube. It was fun. If your group doesn't take themselves too seriously and will keep all there cards 2 feet apart when this card resolves, it's a fun divergence from normal magic. I suggest you proxy up one and throw it into your pool from time to time.
We got pretty good at flipping it too, but there's always a chance you can miss. Unless you make up rules for it, that is.
If I pretend my Lightning Bolt deals 4 damage, am I still playing a Lightning Bolt?
If you want to, who cares? It's not like the integerity of anything is destroyed by doing so.
Ah screw it, I'm including it in my next cube update with this set of rules.
Chaos Orb 2
Artifact
1, T: Choose a permanent then destroy it. Then destroy Chaos Orb.
(Proxying things makes this much easier)
This is the closest to maintaining the original intent of the card while still removing all that weird card flipiness. Combos with elsepth ultimiate like a mofo.
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This card came up in discussion on another forum in the last 24-48 hours, and it was mentioned that it was banned in just about every format known to man... except cube.
Eidolon's stats show that it's barely run, if at all. And yet, if you're flipping skills are good enough, it's a colourless Vindicate.
Is it just the availability/expense of the card, and its relative jankiness that stop it getting played in cube? I'm intrigued.
(And yes, I may have chosen the Alpha version of the card for fun reasons!)
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Of course if you use it as a dexterity card you run into people who take the game a bit too seriously stacking their lands and spreading cards feet apart and all other kinds of problems that arise with the Orb.
Hey did you hear about that one guy who ripped up his Orb at a tournament...:p
Like this one:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=408755&highlight=Chaos+Orb
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Cheers for the link!
Good thing I brought this one into a proper SCD for the forum, methinks...
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Colorless does not need a vindicate. I really dont need to encourage mono Blue any more.
2HG is the perfect place to impliment the funniest Chaos Orb Errata I have heard. In order to eliminate the crazies who will spread their cards out twenty feet apart we said blindfold the Chaos Orb flipper. Turns out that was completely impossible, except when they hade a little propting from a teammate. That turned it into a very funny, and very chaosy effect, which is usually still very powerfull. But noone was so concerned that they changed their layout habits.
But if you're playing it as a colorless Vindicate, and not flipping the card through the air, you're not playing Chaos Orb. You're playing some sort of custom house rule card.
No. Bad CadaverousBl00m! We don't need more discussion on this card. The discussions are always super frustrating and get us nowhere as a group. Every time it comes up.
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If I pretend my Lightning Bolt deals 4 damage, am I still playing a Lightning Bolt?
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
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On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I don't understand how people can get down on the Chaos Orb eratta and call them made up cards, but allow for things like free mulligans, disallow sideboards, or play variant formats. This topic continues to come up, and it serves as a constant reminder of people taking themselves way too seriously. Let he who is without any weird eratta or house rules throw the first stone. No one? Now that that's out of the way, why not discuss the merits of the various modes you can play Chaos Orb than debate it's 'legality' or appropriateness in cube.
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Bingo.
Different formats and different tournament settings can have different rules regarding sideboards, mulligans, and even proxies. But one thing that every Magic format uses is Oracle text.
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Made up cards.
Different gaming clubs come up with their own tournament rules all the time. Including sanctioned play. But every one of those variant tournament formats still abides by the one constant; all Magic cards do the same thing for everybody. The only way to keep that consistent is to use Oracle text and official rulings everywhere.
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They probably play that way because they're all cool guys just playing for fun that don't do this to each other. They're a bunch of guppies that let a shark swim with them for a summer.
But it's also one of the reasons we don't use a free mulligan rule in our tournaments.
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Until it's not house errata, it always will be.
As soon as the official Oracle text makes it a colorless Vindicate, I'll include it as such. But as long as the text says "flip" that's how it should be played, IMO. Anything else will simply feel like cubing with pretend cards. To me.
But as I said earlier in the thread:
Keeping the discussion light and fun, until someone got all :facepalm:-y over it.
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Haha! No, good that I brought it into an SCD, so that anyone else looking to talk about it in the future is going to find pages of circular discussion (and hopefully not rehash it again). Definitely not in the sense that I'm unwittingly restarting old arguments!
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It's cool man. That's only strike one!
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I, CadaverousBl00m, hereby promise to not make an Absorb ICD thread, so help me God.
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If you want to, who cares? It's not like the integerity of anything is destroyed by doing so.
Ah screw it, I'm including it in my next cube update with this set of rules.
Chaos Orb 2
Artifact
1, T: Choose a permanent then destroy it. Then destroy Chaos Orb.
(Proxying things makes this much easier)
This is the closest to maintaining the original intent of the card while still removing all that weird card flipiness. Combos with elsepth ultimiate like a mofo.
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If you say so.
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