WHO IS PROGENITUS? WHY PLAY HIM AS YOUR COMMANDER?
Progenitus is the most badass creature in the history of Magic: the Gathering. His main ability is THE coolest single ability to ever grace cardboard:
Imagine having protection from trolls
There are creatures larger and more powerful like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, and he is not the most efficient general even if you're going for 5-color like Scion of the Ur-Dragon, but if you just like badasses with amazing art, he's a great general for you. He got even better with the new legend rule from M14; clone effects from opponents will not kill him anymore, and it's not a big deal if someone clones your Progenitus, because yours is dealing general damage and theirs isn't. The usual sweepers and edict affects will hit him, so watch out for that.
Because Progenitus has no real abilities that are synergistic with specific cards (for example, Sharuum and every artifact in esper, or Kaalia and a suite of demons/dragons/angels), there are many approaches to making a Progenitus deck. The main thing of note is how he costs 10 mana, so any deck you make will be a slow deck that's heavy on ramp and/or control elements. Common Progenitus builds include playing a ton of planeswalkers and using Progenitus mainly for the colors, or playing a very slow control deck with Progenitus as a finisher. It's important to build with some kind of theme in mind so the cards synergize well with each other.
However, extending to 5-colors opens you up to a myriad of problems, such as being extremely weak to nonbasic land hate. 3-color decks also suffer from nonbasic hate, but the mana requirements in general are not so heavy that you must have 90% nonbasics in play to meet your mana requirements. A well-constructed 3-color deck can play basics if the player thinks there's some nonbasic land hate coming. In a 5-color deck there's not much you can do about it.
Speaking of nonbasic, the manabase is the second problem with 5-color. Both the money required as well as the actual gameplay weaknesses are problems. You can run 5-color on a budget mana base, but most of the cheap multicolor lands enter the battlefield tapped and it makes the deck much slower. As the fetchlands and original dual lands will not drop in price in the foreseeable future, think about investing in those cards.
Of course Progenitus isn't the only 5-color general. You have multiple options available, and they all play quite differently. Here they are in alphabetical order.
Atogatog - I don't think anyone really plays this guy other than for shigs and tiggles. Unless you really want to make an atog tribal deck and I don't even think it's an actual thing.
Child of Alara - Probably the best 5-color control general because of its ability to constantly sweep the board. Every. Turn. Note that to get the sweep effect you have to let Child go to the graveyard when it dies (instead of sending it back to the command zone).
Cromat - Because of its abilities it is suited for a voltron-ish approach. I've never seen this general so I can't say much.
Horde of Notions - A decent 5-color general because it has good stats and a cool graveyard recursion ability. It plays out much like a goodstuff deck with a couple extra elementals (hi Mulldrifter). The difference between this and Progenitus besides the fact that Progenitus is cooler is that because the mana cost is so much lower, you can run less ramp and have more random beaters (particularly since unless you really voltron it up, Horde of Notions will usually not get the kill), whereas Progenitus is best off being your actual beater and the other card slots that would go to random beaters otherwise fill niches.
Karona, False god - I'm not quite sure of a good build that could use this card aside from some kind of aggro tribal deck.
Reaper King - This guy is a serious beating. There aren't many scarecrows (or changelings) that are actually useful in EDH, but getting just 1-2 "free" vindicates is serious value.
Scion of the Ur-dragon - Probably the strongest 5-color general because of how quickly it can kill people. It almost always wins through a combo, either by getting Niv-Mizzet and slapping Curiosity, or Skithiryx and Moltensteel Dragon infect kill. There are also many other dangerous interactions, such as getting the original Nicol Bolas to mind twist the opponent. It can also run typical 5-color combos on top of this, like reanimation, hermit druid, or whatever tickles your fancy. Because of this general's ability to win out of nowhere, it's gotten alot of hate and often they are ganged up on.
Sliver Overlord, Sliver Legion, Sliver Queen - Obviously these are all sliver tribal builds, albeit each general means you approach the game in a different way. Overlord will usually play a control build thanks to all the tutoring and mind controlling, Legion is an aggro build, and Queen is a combo build (making infinite slivers thanks to infinite mana).
So what does Progenitus have that these 5-color generals don't? Or just any other general in general?
He's a badass. That's the only reason you need to play him.
PERSONAL HISTORY
I've been playing magic on and off since Mirrodin, although I didn't start even considering some semblance of competitive play (and by that I mean lofty FNMs and currently nothing higher, so yes, I am not the most skilled player out there) until Zendikar, where after that block finished I again took a break until Return to Ravnica, and have been playing steadily since. I was drawn back to the game at Zendikar largely because I found a new playgroup, and this playgroup quickly introduced me to the EDH format. While I was skeptical about it at first, once I made my first deck I was hooked.
The allure of EDH to me is the accessibility and the atmosphere of the format. You have an extremely large array of cards to choose from, which can result in many decks with wildly varying themes and power levels, so players are better able to construct the decks they desire. Because of the huge emphasis on politics in a typical EDH game, players who have weaker decks can still compete with players with fine-tuned decks as long as they play their politics correctly. This also reduces the monetary barrier to the format compared to something like legacy or even standard.
I consider myself to be a Timmy and a Johnny with some elements of Spike. The Spike part of me, however, barely shows up if there are no tangible prizes to play for. When there are tangible prizes to play for, I do enjoy getting those prizes. However, during EDH with friends where we play for fun and for pride, the frequency that I win at in EDH doesn't matter as much as how I win.
My EDH decks therefore are not for highly competitive play or for entering actual EDH tournaments; they are constructed based on my personal whims. As the playgroup I hang out with don't have hyper-strong decks (they are good decks but they purposely avoid the extremely powerful cards/interactions), I purposely drop the power level of my decks to around theirs. They are my friends, and as such having everyone in the group split games fairly evenly personally makes me happy too. No one likes losing every single game, and the best way to have your playgroup get annoyed with you is to win an overwhelming amount of games, and I don't want to be the guy to force players to get better or to start playing a certain way.
This doesn't mean my EDH decks cannot be fine-tuned for more aggressive playgroups or have a shot in tournaments. Often it just takes a couple of changes in card choices, or a quick change in the theme/game plan (which then relates to making a bunch of easy card changes). You can also often make power level reductions or cost reductions to the deck as well.
DECK HISTORY
When I got back into magic around M10-Zendikar area, my playgroup convinced me to start playing EDH. After playing a couple of games with a friend's deck, I told myself to give it a try. With that, the hunt for my very first general was on.
I skimmed through a card site to look for legendary creatures, and most of them didn't appeal to me. I was a really bad player back then (now I'm just a regular bad player) and I had no clue what were good or bad generals for the format, so I picked solely on my personal whims. And then I saw Progenitus. The glorious art. The ridiculous mana cost. The words "Protection from everything". And I said "This is it. This is the ultimate badass." And so the brew began.
When I first started using Progenitus as my general, it was more focused and linear and took a Voltron approach. I was running a lot more ramp (like cultivate and skyshroud claim) and fewer utility creatures, in an attempt to rush out Progenitus. However, I found that even if you try to rush him out, he will eat the first board wipe, sacrifice effect, counterspell, or clone effect from another player (edit: M14 changed the clone rules for legends). In effect, I spent 10 mana to have no impact on the board. Also trying to set it up such that I could one-shot someone the turn I play him was clunky, because at 10 mana it's difficult to get everything in play in one turn, meaning that rafiq you just threw in makes it obvious that Progenitus is coming down soon. Sometimes it was also difficult to ramp him out and race with him. It simply did not work for me. The words "Protection from everything" didn't actually mean he had protection from everything. He still had too many ways to die for how much mana you must invest into him.
I wasn't a fan of control decks either, or even today. Control decks are difficult to pilot. As board wipes were also the common way to deal with this guy, it was difficult to get any support cards to stick with Progenitus. I was at a dilemma.
After playing with friends for several years, the deck has adopted into a typical good-stuff deck that focuses on Progenitus being the primary finisher. The deck has some blink effects with graveyard recursion. It doesn't have a narrow focus but it can be piloted in many ways and has a broad array of answers. Many cards are interchangeable, especially the top-end, so you can mold cards as you see fit.
As with all 5-color decks, you're pretty likely to shell out a lot of money just for the mana base. The best mana base would include all 10 fetchlands and all 10 original duals (ABUs). You can get the ABUs later but you must use shocklands instead. The fetchlands I highly recommend that you do get as they are much more important to a deck like this than the ABUs, plus fetches and ABUs will never go down in price in the foreseeable future, so you can think of it as a safe investment than powering your deck.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy pieces of cardboard.
Because the deck has birthing pod, it is important to have creatures at every cmc level so you have a good curve to pod up. With that, I will break down the creatures at each cmc amount.
Also I will put * for each card, indicating my personal rating of the card, ranging from 1 to 5.
* - I mostly run this card for personal preference.
** - Has a nice niche, but can be cut for a different card.
*** - A good value card. You can cut for a different card but I don't recommend it.
**** - A staple. I do not recommend cutting this card.
***** - One of the cornerstones of the deck, you will almost always want to see this card as soon as you reach the mana to cast it.
Italicized cards are ones that you can replace with cheaper alternatives as they are not cornerstones of the deck. If an expensive card is not italicized, that means I recommend that you do pick it up.
1
***Birds of Paradise - Mana fixing, ramp to a 3-drop on turn 2, can hold an equipment and flies. That's enough for 1 mana.
***Noble Hierarch - It's an early mana ramp option, but also the exalted is surpringly relevant. It lets Progenitus kill in 2 hits instead of 3, and lets your equipped monsters rumble slightly better earlygame. While it only produces bant colors, most of your other earlygame plays don't contain red or black, so it's fine. It's not necessary to run this due to its huge price tag, but it's not a bad option if you can afford it.
2
*****Stoneforge Mystic - Since the deck relies on a lot of small creatures to do your ramping and such, stoneforge allows you to find equipment and turn every stupid little dork into a respectable threat. The powerful equipment also gives a little more value to Rafiq of the Many since he doesn't really do anything unless Progenitus is attacking.
****Lotus Cobra - With 10 fetches, it's worth running him. If you cannot shell out the money for fetches, you can probably cut this guy.
****Gilded Drake - Blue staple. Great to steal big creatures but mainly to deal with generals. If you can't afford this, play some cheap removal spell.
****Scavenging Ooze - The deck's source of graveyard hate. The lifegain is also relevant with the self-damage from fetches, shocklands, and so on.
*****Fauna Shaman - This deck has some graveyard recursion, and repeatable tutors are always good anyway. Any green creature-based deck must run this.
3
***Wood Elves - Fetches for forest shocklands. Reliable ramp.
***Tireless tracker - With all the fetchlands in the deck, this can generate a ton of clues quickly. It's more like a 4-drop as you want to play this and then play your land. Basically it's a slower but more potent Mulldrifter the longer it stays out; it can draw more than two cards that the Mulldrifter gets you, but you need to pay 2 per card, but you can spend the 2 at any time.
*****Ramunap Excavator - Basically every reason why Crucible of Worlds is so insane with fetchlands, this card applies doubly so, as you can quite easily get this out with green tutor effects.
4
****Oracle of Mul Daya - Another staple in green decks. With library manipulation you get far ahead.
*****Rafiq of the Many - Allows Progenitus to kill in one shot, and has good synergy with the swords. It doesn't do much beyond that, but it fills two very important roles and is an important card to the deck.
****Glen Elendra Archmage - Two negates on a creature. You can't ask for more. Sometimes your clones will initially copy this to garner more value, as when their persist triggers they can copy a different card if needed.
???Faerie Artisans - Testing this guy out. On paper it sounds insane, but we'll see how it works in reality.
5
****Mulldrifter - Divination that's awesome instead of bad. Evoke means you can keep risky starting hands.
***Havengul Lich - In a 5-color deck, he lets you recast any creature you want from any graveyard. That already is badass. He's not that useful early on, but if it's very lategame and you've got a bunch of mana lying around and alot of dead creatures in graveyards, this can singlehandedly take over the game.
***Urabrask the Hidden - A hasty Progenitus is nice and it does help disrupt opponents as well.
6
*****Consecrated sphinx - Blue staple. I was surprised to see this not get banned when Prime Time did.
****Prime Speaker Zegana - Something like a second Consecrated Sphinx. The harder mana costs and the fact that you do need a creature with at least 3-4 power out already makes this more restrictive, but you do get the cards immediately. Cast this when you have Progenitus out for lulz.
7
*****Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - It's amazing against token decks, and it helps soften blows you could face while also letting Progenitus kill in 2 shots (or just smashing face with Avenger's plants in play). Basically with Elesh Norn in play, you win creature combat forever.
****Emeria Shepherd - With the large fetchland suite and various cards that let you play additional lands each turn, this can get out of hand quickly. Just remember that this is more like an 8-drop, as you usually want to play a land after it ETBs.
8
****Ashen Rider - It's an Angel of Despair that costs 1 more mana, but it exiles the permanent instead of simply destroys, and you get an extra shot when it also dies. Even though this deck doesn't have a whole lot of sac outlets to trigger the death trigger, it's still something, and it makes a strong blocker. I've been wanting an 8-drop in the deck while trying to trim a 7-drop, and this replacement seems perfect. This is not to say that Angel of Despair is bad, but right now I want to see if I really need both, because I think Ashen Rider is better overall.
LAND BASE
The land base makes up most of the cost (specifically the fetches and shocklands with the random ABU duals) but is also important. Word of caution: be wary of your life total. Between the fetches, shocklands, and city of brass, you can take a serious amount of damage. I've once lost 20 life before I was even attacked.
*****All 10 fetchlands - These cards help make the deck run. They add value to top, sylvan library, and other library manipulation, and give great card advantage with crucible/life from the loam. You can remove these if you don't have the money, but the deck is weaker without these cards. Note that you can run fetches without original duals, but the original duals aren't worth the money without the fetches. They are expensive, but they are good investments. If their price tag is still too much, try and proxy them and see if you like them (if your playgroup is okay with proxies), and/or get the cheaper fetches first (particularly the allied fetchlands as the Khans reprinting has drastically dropped their price).
*****All 10 shocklands - The 2 damage actually adds up, but the interaction with fetches is worth it. Eventually you want to replace these with the original duals, but it's not an important priority. Much like the fetchlands though, the original duals will only go up in price (and unlike the Zendikar fetches, they will not get a reprint). The green and white shocks have priority over the other shocks in terms of what stays and what goes as I pick up more ABU duals, as the green shocks get fetched by Wood Elves and the green and white shocks get fetched by Krosan Verge.
****Krosan Verge - Another fetch. It can be a little slow but it's actual ramp and color fixes well enough with the shocklands.
*****Command Tower - Thanks, Wizards, for printing a true EDH staple. I can't think of any decks other than mono-color and maybe B/x that wouldn't want this card.
****City of Brass - Again a staple in multi-color, and the 1 damage barely matters anyway.
****Cavern of Souls - There's no real creature theme in the deck, but play this if you need a creature to stick.
***Reliquary Tower - The deck can actually fill your hand with cards fairly easily, so this is nice to have.
2 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Forest
NON-CREATURE BOMBS
These are cards that aren't creatures, but they're huge and are badass.
***Finest Hour - In most cases it's an enchantment-version of Rafiq. However it's interesting to note that having both Rafiq and Finest Hour "doubles" your effect. You get to attack once, gain double strike (and more exalted triggers), and then you get another combat step. This is usually win-more but it is something to note.
ENGINES
These are the cards where you really want 1 in your starting hand, because they give you constant card advantage, but you usually don't want more than 1 in your starting hand because you need to be doing something other than drawing cards. If you have a tutor, you typically will fetch out one of these cards if you don't have one.
*****Birthing Pod - I heard repeatable tutors are good. What about repeatable tutors that get you mana discounts on your tutored cards?
****Mystic Remora - Criminally underplayed card that slowly seems to be getting the love it deserves. In some ways it's a 1-mana rhystic study that makes people pay 4 instead of 1, which is insane. The cumulative upkeep cost is annoying and doesn't affect creature spells, but it's still a 1-mana card, though you generally don't play this on turn 1.
*****Sylvan Library - It's effectively a free top effect once a turn and you can pay life (a hefty amount) to get cards. Against control decks this is great as the life barely matters. One of the best turn 2 plays in the deck.
*****Crucible of Worlds - With fetches, this is one of your best sources of card advantage. Without fetches, you are fine not running this.
*****Life from the Loam - See crucible. Also dredge helps fill the graveyard to get more stuff with graveyard recursion cards. However unlike Crucible, you may want to run this even if you don't have many fetches as the dredge is helpful, but it certainly becomes much weaker.
****Greater Good - Sac outlets are important in EDH.
ADDITIONAL RAMP
Since Progenitus is 10 mana, you need to ramp pretty hard to get him out. These are some noncreatures that help get him out.
*****Sol Ring - Staple. Many of the temporary alliances forged in an EDH game are based on who gets the turn 1 sol rings. It usually doesn't literally help you cast Progenitus, but this helps you cast everything else in the deck.
*****Mana Crypt - Ridiculously expensive card but so powerful. If you can afford the crypt, you play it, no questions, even in Progenitus. Much like sol ring, it doesn't usually cast Progenitus, but it casts everything else.
***Exploration - It's a fairly weak card unless you have Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds. However, if you have the combo assembled you ramp insanely hard. With cheap tutors in the deck, it's not a bad idea to tutor early to assemble this combo.
*****Fist of Suns - Do you like playing Progenitus for WUBRG and not WWUUBBRRGG? Much like Mirari's Wake, it's fragile, but untap with it and you get heavy discounts on your bombs, and at 3-mana it's a bit easier to sneak in.
*****Chromatic Lantern - It's the best of the 3-mana rocks for 5-color decks as it fixes your entire land base. Just make sure you don't get screwed if this suddenly dies.
***Coalition Relic - A reliable but unexciting mana rock. Usually not as crucial as Chromatic Lantern, but the times it ramps extra hard can matter. Also it's good to spread out your ramp options so you don't get hosed by specific cards (like Armageddon).
***Skyshroud Claim - Typical 4-mana spell that gets two lands. But these can be shocklands or ABU duals, and they have the opportunity to enter untapped.
*****Mirari's Wake - I like mana. AFAIK it's the lowest CMC card that doubles your mana. Also the +1/+1 is surprisingly relevant because it lets Progenitus kill in 2 shots instead of 3.
***Prismatic Geoscope - It ETBs tapped which sucks, and it has a weakness that you don't normally want in your artifact mana; it doesn't do anything after an Armageddon. Still, it ramps very hard, and it's very easy for this to tap for WUBRG.
REMOVAL/SWEEPERS
Racing to Progenitus is nice, but Progenitus isn't a particularly strong general. You'll frequently run into opponents doing things faster than you or trying to disrupt you. These help control the board a bit in case you don't get the nut draws or if something's stopping you from doing anything.
***Anguished Unmaking - Exiles any nonland permanent at 3 mana and instant speed. Very flexible.
****Tragic Arrogance - A very interesting sweeper as you keep your best creature, artifact, enchantment, and planeswalker, while your opponents each keep their worst of those types. Theoretically that sounds insane at 5 mana.
****Aura Shards - When many artifacts and enchantments are engines that make decks run, this demands an answer or it will stifle your opponents out of the game.
***Fracturing Gust - An artifact/enchantment sweeper at instant speed, but the lifegain is surprisingly relevant with all the fetchlands and shocklands. The card is completely playable even without the lifegain though.
****Swords to Plowshares - Cheap card to deal with aggro generals, or just giant bomb creatures like Consecrated Sphinx. You need to keep opponents honest.
****Council's Judgment - It gets around hexproof, indestructible, etc. If things go right with this card, you will be able to exile more than one thing, which is amazing. It's not that good when you're ahead since your opponents can conspire against you and vote for something useless, but chances are if you're casting this card, you aren't ahead.
OTHER
These are cards that aren't creatures, or lands, or quite engines. Basically they're value cards.
*****Brainstorm - Like in eternal formats, brainstorm + fetchlands is a good engine. You'll normally have a handful of cards that you don't need at the moment, which means in most cases it almost acts like Ancestral Recall.
****Reap - A 2-mana instant that can potentially get you a ton of cards from your graveyard to your hand, with the only requirement that someone on the table has a bunch of black permanents on the battlefield, which isn't hard to do given that black is a very powerful color in EDH and usually at least one opponent will be in black. Remember you just need one opponent to have one black permanent before this becomes Regrowth which is already a very playable card, and anything more is gravy.
***Praetor's Grasp - IMO this is an underrated card for 5-color decks, since you can play anything you get. Sometimes you'll be able to find answers that this deck doesn't have space to run, but you need to be familiar with your opponents' decks to get the most out of this. The real drawback is that after you cast whatever you tutor for, it usually goes to that player's graveyard for possible recursion, which can be a problem.
****Sword of Fire and Ice - Equipments give important value to the deck, as they turn all your earlygame creatures into respectable threats, and this is my favorite equipment. It draws cards and pings small utility creatures.
****Sword of Feast and Famine - The discard doesn't really matter, but the mirari's wake effect is nuts. However, make sure you plan your turn such that if someone can flash in a blocker, remove the sword during combat, or so on, to make sure you don't get the untap lands effect, that you do not screw up your entire plan. I've seen many people lose because they didn't account for their lands not untapping after combat.
****Green Sun's Zenith - A card that was insane when Primeval Titan was legal as it acted as like a second Titan. While the titan is banned, it's still a very flexible tutor that helps ramp you early, draws you cards late (Zegana) and is overall good.
***Collective Restraint - It's +1 mana over Propaganda, but in return you're often taxing enemies 5 mana per creature to attack you, which can help stall aggro against you. Just remember that it doesn't actually protect your planeswalkers from getting smacked.
***Bring to light - If needed, you can tutor up Demonic Tutor, though you usually will find a creature, sorcery, or instant that will get you out of whatever pickle you may be in.
OTHER OPTIONS
With 5 colors, you have literally every legal card available. There are ways to make the deck stronger. There are ways to make the deck cost less. There are even just simple alternatives, maybe because of personal preference, or maybe it's an oversight on my part.
As with all generals, you want to figure out what exactly you want your general to do, then the other 99 fill in the holes. Whenever I create a deck, I break down cards into one of several broad categories, with some cards able to fill more than one role...
1) Lands
2) Mana ramp (important to note exactly how it produces mana, and the CMC)
3) Disruption spells (broken down into several subcategories of spot removal, sweepers, counterspells, graveyard hate, mana/card-draw denial, etc.)
4) Engines (general spells dedicated to giving card advantage, which can be broken down into several subcategories of actual card draw, graveyard recursion, etc.).
5) Tutors
6) Finishers (cards that end the game on their own, or can finish the game with 1-2 additional pieces in play. In a Progenitus build these tend to be the cards that drastically cut down on Progenitus' clock.)
I'll add more categories when necessary depending on the build; my 1v1 Talrand build, for example, will also note which cards are instants and sorceries. If I were to build a Kaalia of the Vast deck, I'd note which cards are angels/demons/dragons. And so on.
The numbers you want to run for each general category all depend on your general and your mana curve. An Isamaru, Hound of Konda deck is going to need less lands and mana ramp than a Progenitus deck. The Isamaru deck will need more finishers than a Progenitus deck.
Since all Progenitus does is beat face, he's going to be your major finisher and the other 99 should be dedicated to stalling until Progenitus can win the game. You can have a handful of slots that can complement him (Rafiq of the Many doesn't do much other than give Progenitus double strike, but it turns him from a normal 3-turn clock to an OHKO, so he is an important role player) or have a few alternate wincons in case you can't stick Progenitus for whatever reason (Avenger of Zendikar builds up a threatening army on its own) but otherwise, cards that just beat face are highly not recommended in a Progenitus build. If you want to play a beater, figure out what roles that beater does, what it does better than Progenitus, and then see if you can find cheaper alternatives that do that certain role but at a lower CMC.
For example, Akroma, Angel of Wrath is pretty cool. Maybe you want to put her in a Progenitus deck because she can block fliers well while Progenitus can't. But she can't beat face as well as Progenitus. So try and think of cards that can deal with fliers but at a lower CMC and then stick with Progenitus as your finisher. For example, Akroma's Memorial lets Progenitus block fliers now (as well as all your other creatures). Or play a Silklash Spider to keep the skies clear. You'll have Silklash Spider to keep the skies clear usually better than Akroma, and Progenitus will beat face usually better than Akroma.
Then if you're worried that your Progenitus can get answered, find ways that can counteract it. For example, if you are worried about Progenitus getting countered, play Cavern of Souls or perhaps your own counterspells. Such cards can also play double duty; counterspells can protect Progenitus, but also hinder opponents' spells too.
Of course you could simply play Progenitus for the colors and go for something like 5-color superfriends with Doubling Season, or perhaps some kind of pillowfort/enchantress/stax deck. However I feel like if you have very little intention on ever casting Progenitus you might as well play a different general.
With that all said, you'll need to balance your deck well, because Progenitus decks are very slow. The numbers I would run for a Progenitus build are something as follows...
1) Lands (37-40)
2) Mana ramp (15-20)
3) Disruption spells (10-15 of varying types; a couple spot removal, a couple sweepers, etc.)
4) Engines (15-20).
5) Tutors (5-10)
6) Finishers (2-3)
As said earlier, some cards have overlapping roles; for example, Birthing Pod is an engine because it gives you a lot of potential ETB effects from creatures, but due to its nature, it's also a tutor (obvious reasons), mana ramp (if you fetch out creatures that ramp), disruption, and so on. However it's not a pure tutor like Demonic Tutor would be because you may not have the right creatures out in order to pod into the things you need, so keep those things in mind.
Also keep in mind that the color costs of your spells is important. With stronger landbases you can be more aggressive in color costs. If you have the fetchland suite, you can be more aggressive with color costs in cards; if you want to run cheaper lands, having low mana color requirements will help out (for example, without fetches, you probably won't be able to play something like Necropotence).
With that said, here are the alternatives I have considered. Feel free to make other suggestions or alternatives...
POWER LEVEL
Cards that I did not want to run because of power level, money, being mean, and so on. Feel free to run them if your playgroup allows them, or if your wallet can afford them.
Strip Mine, Wasteland, etc. - Very dirty combination with crucible and life from the loam, to the point where you should ask your playgroup if they're fine with this. Be wary of your mana base though; you don't want to get color screwed.
Survival of the Fittest - You can probably tune the deck so that, if you land this card, you immediately win the game. However if that's the case you'd probably be better off playing a general that helps centralizes this combo (Karador, Ghost Chieftain is very good for graveyard tinkering).
Imperial Recruiter - Costs a ton of money, but is a fine fit for the deck.
Mana Crypt - It's a better sol ring, although the damage could be a problem as lots of the lands do damage, and Progenitus decks typically take awhile to kill so the damage could add up. The biggest problem is the money though.
Time Stretch - If you resolve this card, you usually win. In fact, it won so much upon resolution, that it was really the only win-con in the deck. It centralized the deck's plan, which I personally don't really like. It does have weaknesses though, such as fork effects, counters, and so on.
"Every good turn starts with a Time Stretch." - me
Cyclonic Rift - I think this is a powerful card. Maybe too powerful. In a fully-tuned playgroups this should be fine, but it was too oppressive with the people I play with, and often I relied on this card too much to close out games. In order to get a better feel for the rest of my deck, I cut this.
BUDGET CUTS
Cards that I don't run because I am running more expensive cards. But if you are tight on money then feel free to consider these alternatives.
Land base - As the lands make up most of the money, you can run any sort of nonbasics to fix your mana as there are tons of them out there and each are priced differently, so pick up the ones your budget can afford. Off the top of my head I'll list the most popular ones in order of my personal power ranking for a 5-color deck.
---
TOP TIER
Fetchlands (Flooded Strand) Command Tower
BOTTOM TIER
Taplands (Azorius Guildgate, Sejiri Refuge, Tranquil Cove, etc. Lands that always enter tapped and don't have an appreciable effect to make up for it)
---
Remember that without fetches, you can probably cut crucible/life from the loam, further cutting the budget.
Also remember that the weaker your nonbasics are, the fewer colorless lands you can play. When your landbase is weaker, you need as much colored mana as possible to help cover for some of the varying mana costs.
Cheaper equipment - Swords are expensive (although the swords from the scars of mirrodin block are more reasonable in price than the swords from the original mirrodin, body and mind and war and peace are not particularly exciting in EDH), and many other equipments are not usually worth the card spot. The equipments that draw you cards, remove some permanents, and generate mana, all at reasonable mana costs, are the ones you want to bother with. The equipments are here to give some value to your dumb value creatures, as they're not going to beatdown opponents with equipments attached to them, and Progenitus can't even equip them either. If you can't afford the premium swords you probably should remove the equipments and stoneforge mystic and add more ramp/sweepers/etc.
Coiling Oracle, Borderland Ranger, Man-o'-War, Trinket Mage, etc - These are all fine cheap creatures when they enter the battlefield, but I picked out the ones I feel are the most effective. If you can't afford cards like guilded drake, or just some of the other expensive cards in general, feel free to use these. Generally these cheap creatures should ramp you, get you a card, tutor for something, or act as disruption.
MISC. ALTERNATIVES
Cards that I have considered originally and/or played around with, but ultimately cut them or haven't tried for whatever reason. It doesn't make these cards bad though, but with 5 colors the bar is pretty high.
Angel of Despair - Got kicked out by Ashen Rider. In 2 or 3 color decks this is still extremely playable alongside Ashen Rider, but in 5-color you may want to just stick with Ashen Rider.
Azusa, lost but Seeking - Great interaction with crucible and life from the loam, but it was kinda a dead card if I didn't have either of those two. She's more a general you build around rather than have as in a random deck.
Deadeye Navigator - Extremely powerful and the only real reason why I don't have it is because I'm trying to see if I can take this deck in a different direction.
Deathrite Shaman - It's ramp and graveyard hate all in one. However it doesn't ramp very reliably (exiling a land from your own graveyard early on could hurt your Life from the Loam and Crucible of Worlds), and it can only graveyard hate once per turn. It's hard to ask more from a 1-drop, but I was never satisfied with it.
Edric, Spymaster of Trest - It's good if your cheap dudes have evasion. Otherwise he doesn't do much.
False Prophet - If you have sac outlets this is a good reusable sweeper. Otherwise no.
Farhaven Elf - Similar to wood elves, but the deck runs fewer basics than a usual deck. I also didn't feel like I needed both cards, and took the one that finds shocklands/duals. However feel free to run this in a more budget list if you run more basics.
Fierce Empath - 3-mana tutors are playable, but the range of things this fetches are fairly restrictive. With 5-color, look for better options.
Fleshbag Marauder - In multiplayer games this is a superior diabolic edict. It's a nice card to pick up with Sun Titan as well. Still the bar is pretty high in 5-color.
Greenwarden of Murasa - It's a good piece of graveyard recursion, but I'm happy with my graveyard package and I found this to be unnecessary.
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur - Another cool card, but the deck doesn't really need card drawing. This is amazing to mind twist an opponent though. Be careful about Bribery.
Knight of the Reliquary - Can do some interesting things here, like dump fetchlands into the graveyard, but there aren't enough tricks to warrant this. Too many lands have to go for color fixing instead of utility. In selesnya and 3-color decks this is absolutely amazing though as you can do things like tutor up Sejiri Steppe at instant speed.
Reassembling Skeleton - Amazing with skullclamp and okay with birthing pod (repeatedly find 3-drops) and greater good. Doesn't feel that strong otherwise.
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary - Ramps hard, and the shocks count toward the forest count. Also has great synergy with Prismatic Omen. However it doesn't color fix, which is a problem in 5-color, and it's not that amazing without Prismatic Omen out. In multiplayer this also puts a big target on you. Also he's currently banned.
Phyrexian Metamorph - A strong clone card, but it wouldn't hurt to have a few more positive interactions with artifacts to run this over one of the other many powerful clone effects (such as having Tezzeret to fetch this out).
Puppeteer Clique - One of my favorite cards, but with Sepulchral Primordial around to do this guy's job but better, I felt like I had to cut him because of over-redundancy.
Somberwald Sage - It ramps hard but it's at its best in decks that have more creatures.
Sun Titan - With the printing of Emeria Shepherd, I decided to make a swap for my choice of graveyard recursion. Shepherd costs 1 more mana and generally requires more effort to get going, but it can get really ugly, and Shepherd can get plenty of permanents back that Titan couldn't. Sun Titan is still an extremely good card in 3, 2, and monocolor decks where you may have fewer fetchlands (since the fetchlands are what makes Shepherd really ugly), and often you may want both anyway, but for this build I think Shepherd is better.
Trinket Mage - Strong if it's worth tutoring for Skullclamp or in artifact-heavy decks. Not very exciting otherwise.
Vendilion Clique - Early disruption, early flier if you have a sword, and can skullclamp away. Too bad you can't get it back with Reveilark, but you can with Sun Titan. Still it didn't feel like it did enough, and especially not for how much money it costs.
vorinclex, voice of hunger - Cool card, but he doesn't instantly win you the game and doesn't directly affect the board. These are usually better in the big mana green ramp decks.
Weathered Wayfarer - This is better in a white deck that doesn't ramp with lands so you can always get activations. Here there are enough land ramp cards where this doesn't do anything sometimes.
Yavimaya Elder - 3-for-1s at 3 mana are good, but the bar is really high in this deck.
Shardless Agent, Bloodbraid Elf - These are very efficient creatures that generate an extra card, but I felt like, with 5 colors, it was more important to have a toolbox deck.
Diluvian Primordial - In theory, it has the highest potential power level of any of the 5 primordials, or just cards in general. In reality you will usually not be stealing time stretches or primal surges or such, unless said cards were milled into the graveyard beforehand. Normally you'll hit ramp spells, tutors, or spot removals, and occasionally sweepers, and you may have a player at the table with no legal targets at all. It's still a strong value card though, but when deckbuilding you do need to watch your mana curve.
Sepulchral Primordial - Similar to Diluvian Primordial, it can either be a dead card or a massive bomb. He also overlaps with Havengul Lich, and I stuck with the Lich because I can get stuff from my own graveyard with it.
Luminate Primordial - It's a super Duplicant, but most of the time I'd rather have a sweeper than this guy.
Non-permanent ramp cards such as cultivate - They are fine.
Conflux - A hilarious card, but because of red not being as strong in EDH, you can have problems getting enough targets to get the full value.
Mind spring/blue sun's zenith/Sphinx's revelation/etc - These cards are great at refilling your hand especially since the deck ramps a lot. However I went with creatures that give card advantage instead.
Genesis Wave - The deck doesn't ramp very hard, so your Waves aren't very large. With Tooth and Nail, Progenitus, and others already as bombs, this felt superfluous.
Last Stand - Funny interaction with prismatic omen but I currently don't have room for it anyway. Don't run it otherwise.
Primal Surge - It's a very powerful card, but you need to build your deck around it. This deck currently runs too many non-permanent cards. However you can definitely tweak the deck.
Rite of Replication - At base it's a totally serviceable card, and when kicked it's ridiculously powerful. However, because it gets stopped by instant-speed removal, it's a bit risky. It's a high-risk high-reward spell, and I felt like in a deck that wants to play long, it's better to stick with safer cards.
Terastodon - Pretty insane if you have flicker effects or constant recursion to reuse its ability.
Tooth and Nail - It's an extremely good card, but it's at its best when it's fetching out an instant win combo (e.g. Kiki-Jiki + Zealous Conscripts). I dislike 2-card instant win combos, so in this build T&N is simply a powerful value card and didn't fill an important niche. I decided to cut it to experiment with my other value cards.
Rune-Scarred Demon - A decent value card, but there are alot of strong 7-drop creatures, and this never really filled an important role.
Shard Convergence - It's basically a 4-mana "draw 4 lands". Fine in a budget deck, but fetches + crucible + loam is superior.
Wargate - Tutors at a fair mana cost are always worth consideration. However it requires a fairly high mana cost upfront.
Vindicate - 3-mana 1-for-1 at sorcery speed is decent but the bar in 5-color is high. It's a cool card but its power level isn't quite enough.
Greater Good - Sac outlets are nice in EDH, but most creatures in this deck are expendable except for Progenitus. Also, most creatures don't have a lot of power so you're not drawing a lot of cards either.
Maelstrom Nexus - I love cascade, but a 5 mana card that didn't do anything until the next turn felt kinda dead. It also has a tendency to whiff (like playing sun titan and cascading into birds of paradise), but when it hits big it's incredible. You would need to tweak your deck around this and get more library manipulation as well as reduce cards that are dead when you cascade into them.
Necropotence - Necro is powerful. So powerful that once it was dropped I became one of the biggest targets on the table. The other problem is that because the deck has no lifegain, along with the fetchlands and shocklands, and combined with drawing additional aggro, the life payments added up. I believe Necro is better when you can prevent from getting attacked, either by locking the board or quickly doing an infinite combo. This deck doesn't do either. In "unfair" decks Necro is broken, but in "fair" decks it's just a really good draw engine.
Prismatic Omen - If you're low budget, you probably want this to help color fix you. Alternately if there's a lot of nonbasic land hate, you can fetch out basics and have this to help color fix you. There's also some hilarious interactions, such as Prismatic Omen + Last Stand. However, because it doesn't actually ramp you, if you can get your colors fine (fetchlands + shocklands manabase) it's not that helpful.
Artifact ramp that produce colorless mana - I've tried cards like thran dynamo and grim monolith. The ramp is great, but they don't provide color fixing, which is a problem with Progenitus being WWUUBBRRGG.
Mimic Vat - A very good card, but it doesn't give immediate value, and it's at its best when good creatures already died. I liked it when I had it in this deck and it may find its way back, but for now I'm experimenting with other cards.
Mind's Eye - A great draw-engine, but 5-color decks can find better things.
Skullclamp - Amazing with 1-toughness dudes, but the deck doesn't focus on them too much.
Urza's Filter - Somewhat awkward in that it doesn't actually reduce Progenitus' mana cost until there are tax effects. However in the right built it will reduce nearly everything by 2. But the fact that it affects opponents is an issue, even if they may not have as many multicolor spells as Progenitus.
Garruk Wildspeaker - In theory, it ramps you, gets a body in play to strap on swords, and can give your creatures an extra punch and also allow Progenitus to kill in 2 shots. However, it was hard to keep it alive to gain much value out of it.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - Works well with oracle of mul daya and fetches, and is overall very powerful. Usually not worth the massive price tag though.
Ancient Tomb - Sol ring land, but it doesn't color fix early on, and later on it's a temple of the false god that damages you.
Dryad Arbor - It did a lot of cute things with the green fetchlands, but it is affected by summoning sickness and only makes green.
Forbidden Orchard - Great mana fixing, but I cut it because I was running the swords, and that was a problem because these 1/1s can usually block the sword'ed dude. However if you cut the swords, feel free to put this in, as most other equipment don't really need to hit a player for full effect.
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea - In a pinch it can get you a card. Also hilarious with Consecrated Sphinx. But it's relatively weak otherwise and it interferes with mana.
Temple of the False God - I like ancient tomb more, although if you can find room feel free to run this as well.
Volrath's Stronghold - Graveyard recursion on a land. I'm quite satisfied with the recursion suite I have already though, and I decided to try use extra lands that tap for colors instead. Every 3-color black deck wants this card though.
More lands in general - The deck currently has 38 lands. The curve is fairly high, but you have some cheap card draw and crucible/life from the loam to hopefully not miss an early land drop. You could add 1-2 more lands to the deck and be fine if that's what you want.
Early removal - Aggressive decks can put you behind, and it's hard to get back. This deck spends most of the early turns ramping. If your playgroup loves aggressive EDH decks, you should cut some of the big mana cards for some cheap spot removal, be it in the form of creatures like Shriekmaw or noncreatures like Swords to Plowshares.
Random big fat haymaker card - You can alter the top end of the deck with your timmy cards of choice; some good choices include Rune-scarred demon and Sphinx of Uthuun. However, the card you want should be some kind of removal or card draw. You don't need a big beatstick (such as Sphinx of the Steel Wind), because at this high mana cost, you will soon have access to Progenitus. An exception is Avenger of Zendikar, who WILL win you the game in a couple turns if it is not dealt with.
Cards with lifegain - As you do take damage with your lands, you'll be at a lower life than most players on the board. Pure lifegain is almost always bad, but cards like Disciple of Bolas or Umezawa's Jitte are acceptable as they do other things while gaining life.
Indestructible/protection/etc. - Effects that can help Progenitus stay on the board after some kind of removal spell. The problem is that there are many ways to get around Progenitus. Sweepers are the obvious ones, but sweepers that simply destroy (e.g. Wrath of God) can be stopped with an indestructible effect (e.g. Boros Charm) but those that exile (Merciless Eviction) are stopped with different effects. Sacrifice effects (e.g. Grave Pact) also require different things to stop. Basically the only effects I can think of that can protect Progenitus from all these types of removal are Ghostway (get Progenitus off the board while triggering all other ETB creatures you control) and Time Stop/counterspell effects.
STRATEGY
The most important thing to have in your starting hand is a card that can give you extra cards but is 3 mana or less. That way you can get something going early on to keep your hand full. Your strongest plays include stoneforge mystic, fauna shaman, sylvan library, top, life from the loam, or crucible of worlds, among others. The deck is very mana hungry so you can't gas out on lands.
The next best thing to do is ramp. Get an early sakura tribe elder, chromatic lantern, or the like and start getting that mana.
Once you reach 5+ mana, you can really get going. You start getting access to your bombs and sweepers. You have plenty of targets for Karmic Guide and Reveilark and the like, but make sure when playing around with your graveyard that you don't run into a GY hate card.
In most cases you will not have an explosive start. Your most important pieces include getting cards in your hand and not really building your board presence (it depends on your starting hand, but this is the most normal case), hitting all your land drops in the process. You have multiple sweepers and multiple tutors to control the board and slow the game down. Once in awhile you will get an explosive start, but that can happen for any real deck.
Knowing also when to play Progenitus is important. With the nerf to clones, this leaves sacrifice effects (aka "edicts") and sweepers are the only 2 ways to deal with it once it's in play, although counters can get it preemptively. Getting Progenitus killed is a problem because it's a 10 mana investment that dies to something that is significantly less than 10 mana, meaning it sets you back a lot in terms of tempo. For example, if another player has a fairly strong creature board presence, you normally don't want to play Progenitus, as it just gives another player the incentive to sweep. If you have very few creatures in play and there are multiple black decks on the table, you can easily run straight into an edict effect. And so on.
Your main win con is simply smashing with Progenitus. Rafiq lets Progenitus OHKO someone. Elesh Norn and Mirari's Wake cut the required hits for Progenitus kills from 3 to 2. Your last big finisher is with Avenger of Zendikar and swarming over with tokens and your massive amount of fetchlands; you also have plenty of clone effects as well. Nicol Bolas and Karn can also ultimate, but planeswalkers usually don't last that long unless everyone else on the table is gassed out. In a pinch, you can use Praetor's Grasp to find someone else's finisher and use that.
Most people tend to ignore the Progenitus deck until you start approaching the mana to cast him. Once he is played, you must expect a sweeper. You also must expect that any blue mage with mana open is going to counter Progenitus. Depending on the situation you can use Progenitus to bait out those things, or you use other things to bait out before you throw in Progenitus.
Your first priority is to just not die. The deck has a lot of gas and draw power, so you have good chances of winning long games. But the deck doesn't have too many plays that can put pressure on the opponent early. There's also no life gain and there's a lot of life-loss, with the fetches, shocks, and necro. In terms of what to watch out for, in general, white decks have a lot of sweepers and tax/stax effects, blue decks have counters, black decks have edicts and tax/stax effects, green decks can go over the top, and artifact decks can often kill you before you even get Progenitus out.
The most important thing, as with all multiplayer games, is to play politics. Try to not be the big threat on the table because it's difficult to win out of nowhere with this deck. The deck wants to play a long game.
STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES OF CURRENT VERSION
+ Can grind out games
+ Can rebound from board sweeps fairly easily as long as you are prepared
+ Cares little about tuck effects. The deck has multiple ways to win without relying on Progenitus, and has multiple tutors to get him back if needed.
- Nonbasic land hate (Blood Moon, Contamination, etc). The deck runs plenty, because 5-color requires it. Targeted land destruction can be a problem if you are not prepared. Mass land D is also a problem unless you have mana rocks or life from the loam/crucible, but mass land D is strong against a lot of decks. Nonbasic land hate is what will hurt you more than the other decks on the table.
- Tutor griefers (Aven Mindcensor, Stranglehold, etc). The deck shuffles and tutors very often, especially with fetchlands.
- Minimal infinite combos/ability to instantly win.
- Humility or Torpor Orb. You don't have too many outs to get them. However since most decks get shut off by this, usually someone will answer this for you if you can't.
The big 3 walkers (Karn, ugin, Nicol Bolas) are badasses, but they didn't really synergize with the deck. The deck is more about gaining value through the creatures and the walkers were clunky. In particular the addition of Collective Restraint, which actually is quite good at keeping me alive but doesn't keep alive any of my planeswalkers, convinced me to drop them. I decided to run some creatures or low-CMC spells that largely replicate what their primary role was to streamline the deck (Karn as a single-target removal spell, Nicol Bolas as removal + creature theft, and Ugin as a sweeper).
The removal of KG and Rev were tough, but the reason why I ultimately decided to cut them (for now anyway) is that they are TOO good and TOO ubiquitous. So many white-based creature decks run the combo, and it is so easy to go infinite with these two that I intentionally had to not run any sac outlets (at least sac outlets that require 0 mana to activate like Viscera Seer). It's a combo that's tried and true and I decided to cut it to gauge the power of the other cards in the deck. In a way it's like why I removed Cyclonic Rift from the deck; it's really damn good and I would typically lean on them too hard.
Bring to Light was a card that I was toying with, but I decided that 5-mana tutors are still good and flexible. While it technically only can get a creature, instant, or sorcery, it can get Demonic Tutor so it technically can get you anything if you really want to.
Anguished Unmaking is a flexible removal spell. Exiling + instant speed are both crucial. The 3 life loss is usually negligible, but just be aware that the life loss from the fetchlands and shocklands do add up.
Brainstorm is just too powerful to not play in a deck with so many fetchlands.
Tireless Tracker is an early play that helps draw cards, particularly with all the fetchlands in the deck. Mana-intensive but low CMC, and fetchable off green sun's zenith in a pinch.
Emeria Shepherd is coming back in. With KG and Rev both going out, there's enough room for the graveyard recursion Shepherd provides, especially with the fetchlands in the deck.
With the removal of KG and Rev, I don't feel dirty playing a sac outlet (KG + Rev + sac outlet that costs no mana to activate = easy infinite). The three sac outlets I have my eyes on are Viscera Seer (1-mana), Phyrexian Altar (makes mana), and Greater Good (draws cards). I decided to play greater good to retest it again, but I'm quite open to playing the others in here, maybe in place of greater good.
My meta started to have a bit more aggressive attacking generals/decks, so I decided to play Baleful Strix as an early blocker.
Prismatic Geoscope is just for testing. It ramps hard but it does have noticeable drawbacks (it ETBs tapped and it produces nothing after an Armageddon).
The additional cuts were Thada Adel, Progenitor Mimic, and Solemn Simulacrum. Thada Adel is strong on paper but would often get killed before it did anything, and since my meta isn't hyper cutthroat there actually weren't many times when the islandwalk would let her get in unharassed. Progenitor Mimic is strong, but it was more powerful when Reveilark could get it back. Without it, PM is still strong but I decided to cut it to test other cards. Solemn is a nice value card but it never felt like it did enough.
Avenger of Zendikar gets replaced with Ramunap Excavator. Avenger was powerful but often got faced with a board wipe before it did anything. Ramunap is just another Crucible of Worlds card that also gets fetched with Green Sun's Zenith and other creature tutors, and gives another form of land graveyard recursion.
- 1 Island
- 1 Swamp
- Umezawa's Jitte
- Bane of Progress
- Emeria Shepherd
- Carpet of Flowers
Picked up another ABU dual, and I decided to put blood crypt back in for now. I cut down on some of the basics. This makes me even weaker to nonbasic land hate, but the deck can't really play around that anyway.
Finest Hour is essentially another copy of Rafiq. I decided to cut Jitte as it was difficult to use it properly. often the creature with jitte would die in combat and it was mana intensive to keep strapping it to other creatures. Finest Hour allows you to not rely solely on Rafiq for the OHKOs.
Fracturing Gust replaced bane of progress because of the lifegain. The deck has serious problems with life because of the fetchlands (even if you are very careful with not shocking yourself to shocklands, the life payments from fetchlands add up quickly). Also being 1 mana less and instant speed are nice bonuses too. Bane of Progress is easier to recur though.
Reap replaced Emeria Shepherd. ES is extremely powerful, but you get what you pay for when it is effectively an 8-drop (7-mana drop and then play your land afterwards). Reap is a 2-mana instant speed graveyard recursion spell that can get instants or sorceries, or lands in a pinch. Basically it was a mana curve consideration. ES is certainly strong and may find its way back into the deck, but for now the mana curve was a problem.
Carpet of Flowers has gotten axed. There are a lot of blue decks, but most of them don't play a lot of islands; many play the scrylands, or the M10/Innistrad duals, etc., so often you are adding, at most, 1-2 mana. That's not terrible but it's not really exciting.
Testing out Faerie Artisans because it sounds so powerful on paper.
3/22/16
+ Carpet of Flowers
+ Noble Hierarch
+ Collective Restraint
+ Mystic Remora
+ Mana crypt
- Khalni Heart Expedition
- Somberwald Sage
- Greenwarden of Murasa
- Tooth and Nail
- Zendikar resurgent
Carpet of flowers is an underrated ramp spell. It's cheap and it gives you a big boost if there's any other blue deck on the table. Khalni Heart Expedition gets cut, as they're both enchantments that ramp, but khalni is slower.
Noble Hierarch replaced Somberwald Sage. There are some noncreature permanents that Sage couldn't ramp out (notably the planeswalkers), but Hierarch has one more interesting boon; the exalted trigger lets Progenitus kill in 2 shots instead of 3. It also makes your equipped dorks early in the game slightly less likely to die in combat. While it doesn't produce B or R, most of the early drops are in bant colors, so it's fine. Mana dorks are embarrassing in the face of sweepers, but the little push they give earlygame is a boon, and because of Hierarch's exalted trigger it's not the worst mana dork you could topdeck lategame.
I also put in Mystic Remora. That card has always surpassed expectations everytime I've played it in my other blue decks. It's a cheap card (both mana and budget) and having it draw just 2-3 cards pays for itself.
Collective Restraint is just being tested as a random goodstuff durdle card. Basically for 1 more mana it's a super Propaganda in a 5-color deck. I'll see how well it works.
Greenwarden is getting axed quickly. It's still a good card, but there's plenty of graveyard recursion in the deck already. While most of them only can hit creatures, eternal witness getting the key nonpermanents is usually enough.
Tooth and Nail getting cut is a tough one, but I have constantly expressed my disdain for 2-card combos, which Tooth and Nail frequently fetches out in competitive decks. If I am not going that route, T&N instead becomes a value card instead of a finisher (a powerful one, but still just a value card). I decided to cut it to lower my curve.
I got a mana crypt for this deck, so I take out a ramp spell. Zendikar resurgent feels like the weakest one. Mana doublers are nice, but at 7-mana that's hard to swallow.
- Prophet of Kruphix
- Merciless Eviction
- Rune-Scarred Demon
- Mana Reflection
- Sun Titan
- Wargate
RIP Prophet.
Trying out Emeria in its spot just because. On paper it's a crazy graveyard recursion engine.
Switching out Merciless Eviction for Tragic Arrogance to test the latter. The deck has a bunch of creatures but most of them are expendable, and you usually don't have more than 1-2 artifacts/enchantments/planeswalkers in play so you're hardly affected anyway.
Putting in Jitte. It adds more value to Stoneforge and Rafiq, it's early removal, and it's even lifegain which the deck doesn't say no to. Rune-scarred demon is a strong value creature, but it doesn't really serve a major purpose, and with the change to the mulligan rule, it's important to keep curves lower.
Trying out Zendikar resurgent over mana reflection. Reflection does cost 1 less mana and is better with mana dorks and mana rocks (reflection affects those while resurgent is the Mirari's Wake type of effect that only affects lands), but the fact that zendikar resurgent also gives you a bit of gas is important.
Also trying out Greenwarden of Murasa over Sun Titan. Titan is obviously better with permanent cards of CMC 3 or less, and you can get the recursion through attacking (whereas getting the second shot off Greenwarden requires you to exile it). Titan is also better at combat, being a 6/6 vigilance versus a vanilla 5/4. However, Greenwarden is obviously better with everything else, which I think is more useful.
Bring to light is replacing wargate as a tutor. Since bring to light can fetch out demonic tutor, you can technically fetch out anything you want, albeit if it's not a creature/instant/sorcery with CMC 5 or less it'll be less mana efficient than wargate. However, the fact that bring to light can also fetch out an instant or sorcery which wargate couldn't means this card is actually very flexible, especially when paired with said demonic tutor.
I really like Vindicate. I think it's a cool card. It has a great text line, flavor text, and art. However it has alot of weaknesses. I think Council's Judgment is a good upgrade. It gets around all kinds of protections (indestructible, hexproof, protection, etc), will often get the thing you were trying to aim the vindicate at anyway, and there's a chance it even gets more than 1 permanent. The strong political-element with it is very interesting too. Since it doesn't actually target, you can get around sac outlets and such too, since once everyone gives a name, the most voted permanents get exiled with no chance to respond. And note that your permanents can't be named with Judgment so it will almost never backfire or be worse than Vindicate.
Phyrexian Metamorph is also a great clone card, but I feel like with the current build, Clever Impersonator being able to copy enchantments and planeswalkers is a bigger boon than Metamorph's upside. Metamorph is very strong if there's Tezzeret to fetch it out, but right now the build has problems fitting him.
I've gone in a few other topics about my disdain for Cyclonic Rift. I feel like it's too strong for my playgroup and often I rely on this card too much. I cut it in order to get a better gauge on the power level of other cards in my deck. I decided to try out Ugin as an additional sweeper, cause Ugin is cool, even if he isn't particularly efficient.
I picked up two additional ABU duals. Now there's the question of what lands to remove. I don't want to remove basics because they're a necessary evil, but I don't like getting rid of Reliquary Tower because of shigs and tiggles. I decided that it would be a good time to get rid of some of the ravnica shocklands, starting with Blood Crypt, as the green shocks get fetched with Wood Elves, and the green and white shocks get fetched with Krosan Verge. The second land removed was Reflecting Pool as it's an awkward land to draw early on which is when mana is usually the most sketchiest.
I'm still trying to find an identity for the deck. For now the deck will try a more voltron approach; while it's not all-in on Progenitus, there will be a little more focus on letting Progenitus get the kill rather than a control-type deck. This means more ramp and cards that help support Progenitus finish off enemies. Exploration is good but only really with Life from the Loam and Crucible of Worlds; I've tried it before, cut it, but I'm experimenting again. Khalni Heart Expedition is being used instead of something like Explosive Vegetation because it's an earlygame play. Mana Reflection basically says that with it out, I cast anything in my deck, including Progenitus. While my very first iteration of the deck was a balls to the wall ramp deck, that was back when clones could kill off Progenitus. Now because it's only edicts and sweepers (and the standard counterspells), Progenitus is a little safer.
Sylvan Primordial got banhammered.
Necropotence was powerful. So powerful that once it was dropped I became one of the biggest targets on the table. The other problem is that because the deck has no lifegain, along with the fetchlands and shocklands, and combined with drawing additional aggro, the life payments added up. I believe Necropotence is better when you can prevent from getting attacked, either by locking the board or quickly doing an infinite combo. This deck doesn't do either. In "unfair" decks Necro is broken, but in "fair" decks it's just a really good draw engine.
Deadeye Navigator's removal is largely because my Maelstrom Wanderer deck has it, and I want to try and take the deck in a different direction. Right now it feels like my Progenitus is like my Wanderer deck except slower and weaker.
I tried Urabrask earlier, cut it, but I'm trying again. It gives a little bit of protection and can slow down aggro decks for a turn, which often is the difference between surviving and not. It also gives Progenitus haste which is obviously not irrelevant.
I picked up Taiga and Plateau. There's a lot of lands so I cut the Terramorphic Expanse to go to 39 lands. That seems like a lot, so I'm trying out Exploration (something I played in this deck a long time ago). With it in, Weathered Wayfarer interacts with it poorly, so it's out for now. I cut Garruk because walkers are a bit vulnerable.
Cyclonic Rift is another goodstuff card that's pretty insane. I'm also cutting Oblivion Stone because I think I don't need that many sweepers if I'm trying to ramp to Progenitus quickly. Because Stone is out, I think cutting academy Ruins is fine too. Ruins getting back birthing pod is nice but not at the expense of hurting the mana base colors.
1/18/14
+ Prophet of Kruphix
+ Bane of Progress
+ Swords to Plowshares
+ Cavern of Souls
+ Somberwald Sage
+ Rhystic Study
+ Garruk Wildspeaker
+ Thada Adel, Acquisitor
This edition was basically increasing the mana ramp and low-mana cost cards while cutting some of the fat at the top.
Prophet of Kruphix is insane in the right build. While this isn't an optimal build for the card, the deck is still fairly creature-heavy, especially if you have some mana sinks to just take advantage of the extra mana. For example on your turn you play noncreature things, then on other people's turns you flash in your creatures.
Bane of Progress was placed in for Fracturing Gust quickly. It's basically a creature version of the same card. While it's 1 more mana (making most of the sweepers 6 mana) and doesn't gain you life, creatures are easier to recur especially when it's 2 power for Reveilark.
Fleshbag was cut because it's a fine card but with all the sweepers in the deck it should be fine.
Swords to Plowshares replaced Austere Command to have better balance in the deck. It needs more earlygame answers. Austere Command was one of four sweepers in the deck (Merciless Eviction, Oblivion Stone, and Bane of Progress/Fracturing Gust), so there's a lot of mid-lategame stabilization power. The reason why I decided to take out Austere Command is that Oblivion Stone and Bane of Progress both attack in different ways. Stone is an artifact for Academy Ruins, and is 3 mana for Sun Titan. Bane of Progress is a green creature for Green Sun's Zenith, and can be Reveilark'd. Both can be tutored with Wargate. Merciless Eviction normally hits fewer permanent types than Austere Command, but the fact that it exiles gives the deck a different alley to attack.
Somberwald Sage was nice in my Maelstrom Wanderer deck. Here, there are a few more noncreatures, and also it's slightly awkward to Progenitus (since it makes 3 of one color while Progenitus is 2 of each, so that 1 extra goes to waste), but I still expect good things. It also gives another 3-drop creature which the deck lacked (with Fleshbag gone, the only 3-drops were Wood Elves and Eternal Witness).
Rhystic Study is being used in place of mimic vat for a bit. I've put Rhystic Study in my other blue EDH decks and it always overperformed. Mimic Vat, however, doesn't give immediate value, and it needed good creatures to die to make it perform up to its power.
Volrath's Stronghold is cut because the deck has 3 other cards that recur solely creatures (Reveilark, Karmic Guide, Havengul Lich) and it doesn't need that much redundancy. Instead play more cards that can tap for colored mana.
Cavern of Souls is being tested in place of the Stronghold. There's no tribal theme in the deck at all, but it's nice to give the finger to counterspells. In particular, making sure Progenitus can't be countered is nice.
Greater Good on paper was nice to sacrifice Progenitus in response to something that can kill him, or to get things in the graveyard to recur. The thing is that 1) It's better to play something that can help protect Progenitus instead, and/or 2) The deck isn't very fast so often the creatures you have are blocking so you don't die, and they'll find a way into the graveyard anyway.
Urabrask was cut because while its abilities are great on paper, it's hard to take advantage of the mass haste in this deck. The only creature who you really care about having haste is Progenitus, but because of Progenitus' mana cost, it's hard to get both urabrask and Progenitus into play on the same turn, so your opponents know what will happen anyway.
Thada Adel is being tested here because it's just a pretty funny card. Also the islandwalk is nice with the swords equipped because often there are blockers for the equipped creature. And repeatable "tutors" can never be bad. And it's another early drop.
Conflux got cut because with Urabrask out, the only actual red card that it can fetch right now is Nicol Bolas. I think Conflux is a badass card but it's just not good enough.
- Necrotic Sliver
- Time Stretch
- Angel of Despair
Vindicate is going back in place of Necrotic Sliver. 6 mana to play the sliver and crack it is too much to just kill one thing, and the fact that you can recur it isn't a big deal because it's usually not a very strong target in the first place. Necrotic also gets shut off by humility and the like, while Vindicate gives a more diverse answer suite for the deck.
The removal of time stretch is the biggest issue here. It's an extremely powerful card, albeit has some weaknesses. The problem was that, as I played the deck more, it relied more and more on chaining time stretches together in order to snag the win (usually chain a couple time stretches together before playing Progenitus). I've had some complaints about how it's not quite fun to play against, but more importantly it wasn't quite fun for me to play as when the deck wins with largely the same method. While I suppose that's the nature when the main win con is a 10 mana unhasted creature - play a slow deck full with answers and a very small suite of actual wincons - but I'd like to experiment with the deck more and see what other win cons there are. This change is entirely personal and not because of lack of power.
Fracturing Gust is just being tested for now in place of Time Stretch. Sweepers are always welcomed in slow decks. And this deck has some life issues; among the fetches, shocks, and necro, it's actually easy to lose a ton of life without anyone even attacking you. This is very playable lifegain.
Ashen Rider replaces Angel of Despair, as the former is almost strictly better than the latter. It does cost 1 more mana, but it exiles instead of destroys, and you get an extra trigger off its death. It's also a reason to get an 8-drop which the deck lacks, while trimming a 7-drop which the deck has a lot of, in order to work with a Birthing Pod curve. While Angel of Despair is still a very strong card, right now I don't think I'll need both.
GSZ used to be amazing when Primeval Titan was legal. With its banning it got weaker, but you still have some strong targets since a bunch of other strong green creatures got printed. 3 mana gets you a Fauna Shaman, 5 gets you Oracle, 7 gets you Zegana and Progenitor Mimic, and 8 gets you Sylvan Primordial.
Elesh Norn is a risky addition, not because it's bad, but because she's vulnerable to gilded drake. But she's so powerful at what she does it's hard to not at least test her. Also, she lets Progenitus kill in 2 shots.
Merciless Eviction is getting a shot. With it, the deck has 3 sweepers, which coupled with the tutors should be fine.
Fist of Suns was a card I used to run, then I cut. I'll try it again. Getting a 5 mana reduction on Progenitus is sweet, but you also get reductions on Time Stretch and whatnot. And sometimes, paying WUBRG is easier than paying BBB for necropotence.
Coalition Relic was another card I used to run, then I cut, then I'm trying again.
Weathered Wayfarer is being tested. Currently the deck only has 4 cards that land ramp (every other ramp card is a different permanent type). Consider that Wayfarer's ability can be activated after cracking a fetchland but before finding that land to also help dip your land count. It sounds credible in theory.
Wargate is being tested. It's mana-intensive, but it's a tutor, so it's automatically worth consideration. Paying 6 to get necropotence or paying 7 to get birthing pod both sound like decent plays.
I've always been meaning to add Krosan verge to the deck, and it took me awhile to remember that I wanted to at least try it. So Evolving Wilds gets kicked out for it.
I decided to try Necrotic Sliver over Vindicate. The Sliver requires more mana, but it's easier to recur creatures than sorceries in this deck. The deck needs at least one spot removal to keep opponents honest.
Skullclamp got cut because there actually aren't that many 1 toughness creatures in the deck. It's a powerful draw engine, but the deck's current build can't abuse it to its fullest.
With Skullclamp gone, cutting Trinket Mage was only natural. Its only strong tutor is Top, even though fetching sol ring isn't terrible.
Serra Ascendent already hit the cutting board. The deck right now could use ramp more than a value beater.
The blue/black/white primordials also already hit the cutting board. Right now the deck is extremely top-heavy on mana curve, and with the nerf to clones, racing to Progenitus is a better strategy than before. The white primordial was usually worse than a sweeper, the blue primordial had some consistency issues (usually due to graveyard hate), and the black had some consistency issues (again usually due to graveyard hate) but also overlaps with what Havengul Lich has to offer.
Fierce Empath is getting cut. 3-mana tutors are always playable, but the bar in 5-color deck is high. I'm testing Wargate mostly to replace this, as they both have a 3 mana investment (Wargate's GWU cost, Fierce Empath's actual cost) but Wargate can fetch other stuff. While Empath is easier to recur, Empath is not exactly something I want to recur in the first place.
- Genesis Wave
- Withered Wretch
- Terastodon
- Jin gitaxias, Core Augur
- Dryad Arbor
- Jace, the Mind Sculptor
- Magus of the Disk
- Puppeteer Clique
Austere Command is going back in. Despite it being difficult to tutor for and recur from the graveyard, sweepers are necessary in this deck.
I knew Aura Shards was a powerful card, but seeing it in action convinced me that it can really take command of games. Many players use artifacts or enchantments as engines, and this demands an answer or they will get choked out of the game.
The green and blue primordials were amazing in my Maelstrom Wanderer deck, and I decided to make room for them.
Rune-Scarred Demon was added for a tutor on a creature. This is important when you can either pod into it, or get Fierce Empath out to tutor for it.
Progenitor Mimic is being tested. On paper it will dominate a game, and getting this back with Reveilark sounds sweet.
Serra Ascendent is also being tested. If it's out early it's a huge tempo swing, but it's weak lategame because the deck currently has no other lifegain to keep the life total above 30.
Genesis Wave felt like the most unreliable bomb. Tooth and Nail could do less, but a Wave could whiff pretty hard. The deck doesn't ramp hard now, so the Waves feel pretty small.
Withered Wretch is going out, as with Scavenging Ooze and Puppeteer Clique as graveyard hate, a third source felt unnecessary.
Terastodon is great removal, but the fact that it gives opponents beasts can actually be a problem because this deck usually dips low in life (shocklands, fetchlands, necro). Sylvan Primordial does basically the same thing except you get forests for your problems.
Jin Gitaxias was a hilarious creature, but there were many times where I could not fit him onto the board. It's easy to fall behind on the board and not cards in this deck.
Dryad Arbor was cut to make room for the cards I wanted. 38 lands might be okay because there's Life from the Loam and Crucible, but be careful about mulligans.
Jace was cut because I moved it to my Maelstrom Wanderer deck.
Magus of the Disk was cut because it's a tad too slow.
Puppeteer Clique was cut despite it being strong because Sepulchral Primordial does about the same thing except overall better. With that and Havengul Lich, I don't need more cards to steal creatures from other graveyards.
2/6/13
+ Chromatic Lantern
+ Prime Speaker Zagana
+ Magus of the Disk
+ Sepulchral Primordial
+ Luminate Primordial
+ Evolving Wilds
- Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
- Prismatic Omen
- Ancient Tomb
- Vendilion Clique
- Sheoldred, Whispering One
- False Prophet
Rofellos + Prismatic Omen would ramp very hard, and even Rofellos on his own produced a lot of mana. Ancient Tomb filled a similar role, being a sol ring land. But after more testing, ramping this hard made you a big target in a multiplayer free-for-all. In addition, Rofellos was sometimes difficult to play on turn 2, and he doesn't color fix. Prismatic Omen was fairly weak unless Rofellos was also in play. Ancient Tomb also gave color problems early on where I would usually prefer to have something that could produce color over it, and lategame it would be a Temple of the False God that damaged me.
Chromatic Lantern was decided to replace Prismatic Omen because it would give the color fixing needed, but could also make mana on its own. Without Rofellos, there's no real reason not to run the Lantern over Omen.
Evolving Wilds was put in over Ancient Tomb because of its color fixing, and being a 12th fetch for crucible/life from the loam.
I am very excited about how the simic guild leader will do in testing. It barely does anything on its own, but any sort of creature in play (even if it's only a 2 power creature) and you can get decent value out of it. I also like the fact that you can Reveilark this.
Sheoldred was cool, but it took too long to get online, and with the recently spoiled Sepulchral Primordial, I felt like this black one does much better at the role I want it to.
The white primordial was also put in, largely because I'm planning on putting the RUG ones in my Maelstrom Wanderer deck, and I might as well try to test all 5 amongst my two major decks.
False Prophet was unreliable in being a sweeper because the deck doesn't have enough sac outlets. I decided to try Magus of the Disk in its place.
12/29/12
+ False Prophet
+ Scavenging Ooze
- Austere Command
- Deathrite Shaman
False Prophet is being tested over Austere Command. The latter performed fine, but False Prophet can be recurred a little more often as there's some creature recursion in this deck; not so much sorcery recursion for Austere Command.
Scavenging Ooze replaced Deathrite Shaman as another source of graveyard hate. Being able to exile more than once per turn is huge, and while Deathrite Shaman also did some other cute things, ultimately the focused graveyard hate is more important.
12/18/12
+ Oblivion Stone
+ Sylvan Library
+ Academy Ruins
- Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
- Yavimaya elder
- Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
Oblivion Stone gave another sweeper which I find the deck needs, because there aren't too many ways to recur Austere Command, but Oblivion Stone is a little easier to do so.
I was trying out Sylvan Library in my Maelstrom Wanderer deck, and I'm pretty impressed with it. I wanted to add it here too.
Similar with Academy Ruins, with the addition of Oblivion Stone it's worth it to get a land to recur artifacts when that list includes crucible of worlds, oblivion stone, birthing pod, both swords, and skullclamp.
Vorinclex is badass, but he doesn't really win the game instantly and has no real immediate effect on the board. What usually happens is that someone spends some mana to spot removal him (or spend a lot to board sweep) and that's that.
Yavimaya Elder has always been good, but never stellar. I think it's time to try something else.
Mikokoro felt like the weakest land, and got cut for Academy Ruins.
11/24/12
+ Vendilion Clique
+ Austere Command
- Phyrexian Arena
- Knight of the Reliquary
Vendilion Clique gives you some interaction with combo decks.
Austere Command gives a sweeper.
Phyrexian Arena was good card draw, but hopefully there will be enough to get rid of this one, as it felt the weakest of the engines.
Knight of the Reliquary never felt very strong in this deck. Since the mana base has to be dedicated to fix colors, there aren't many utility lands to get. This is better suited for 3 or 4 colors, where you can run more utility lands without color screwing yourself.
Added more noticeable weaknesses to the deck.
Added a small part in strategy about mulligans.
Looking at some of the spoiled cards in gatecrash and seeing what potential they have in the deck...
- All of the primordials are in consideration. The green one currently hasn't been spoiled, but the white, blue, and black all have potential (I'm not a fan of the red one). As they are all 7 mana, I can't run all of them really.
- Prime Speaker Zegana looks sick. It gets horribly shut down by instant speed removal, but it's so easy to draw a ton of cards with it. The fact that its base power is 1 means you can Reveillark it (lolwut).
- Merciless Eviction has potential, but it has strict competition with many other 6 mana sweepers, notably Austere Command and Akroma's Vengeance. It doesn't hit as much, but the fact that it exiles makes it worth consideration.
- Aurelia's Fury and Clan Defiance are both strong, although they aren't permanents for genesis wave and they don't quite fit the theme of the deck.
- And obviously, enter the infinite + omniscience is worth consideration in any blue deck. If I can get academy rector and a sac outlet...
on a side note, i'm wondering what to do with Rofellos. He ramps like crazy, but the double green can be a problem to get early, he doesn't ramp that hard without prismatic omen, and he doesn't color fix. He also makes me a big target in free for alls, but in a team game he won't die as often and getting an early tooth and nail or genesis wave is almost auto win.
Anyway, the green primordial exceeded my expectations and looks sick. I might consider it over terastodon, but all of them sans the red one I want to find room for.
The green primordial is incredible. You should possibly add in the card Flash.
If you can cast this on turn 2, you put sylvan primodial in to play blowing up 3 lands of other players and getting insanely ahead (6 mana turn 3). Also it seems like you have other creatures that are powerful enough with enter the battlefield effects to justify the inclusion.
I think the only other primordials worth using are the blue and black one.
It's very strong but doing that would make me the target at the table. It's also a little oppressive to do it on turn 2 because there's not much other people can do to respond to it. I wouldn't run it because it sounds too strong, but it really depends on your playgroup and if they're okay with things like that.
As for the primordials, the white one sounds fine. Duplicant is a nice card, and for 1 more mana you get to duplicant everyone, and the life gain is minimal. I'm trying out all 5 primordials, but the RUG ones are in my maelstrom wanderer deck so this one picked up the white and black. The U and G ones will almost certainly make it into the deck some time though but I need to decide what to cut.
The red one does sound underwhelming but it should do fine in the right decks. Almost certainly won't go in here though.
After a long playtesting night, the deck really needs more removal and sweepers, sweepers moreso. Austere command is definitely going back in. I might put in child of alara just because, but doing so would mean the deck needs room for high market. Aura shards is also something that should try to get in.
So dragon's maze is somewhat depressing in that only a few cards excite m.
Notion thief is hilarious, but with all the consecrated sphinxes out there it's a very dangerous card to run. The deck would need to be built a little around thief in that the deck needs sac outlets or instant removal so that the thief or sphinx can get off the table immediately. Hate cards is also a good way for people to gang up on me.
Obzedat's aid is powerful but the deck would need more instant/sorcery recursion to get this back, as well as more noncreature permanents worth reanimating (because reanimating creatures can be done far more efficiently with other cards). This feels like a build around card rather than a value card.
Plasm capture is sweet, although UUGG will be hard to reliably cast. This deck is also currently not built as a draw-go either to do something with the 4 mana if you don't counter anything for the turn.
Progenitor Mimic is cool, but with phantasmal image and phyrexian metamorph already in, I'm not sure if I want a third clone.
- Genesis Wave
- Withered Wretch
- Terastodon
- Jin gitaxias, Core Augur
- Dryad Arbor
- Jace, the Mind Sculptor
- Magus of the Disk
- Puppeteer Clique
mind sculptor went to my wanderer deck because library manipulation is way better in wanderer than in this deck, and I didn't replace it because of budget reasons (i only had 1).
Here's my list. It needs updating but is still fun to play. I've pulled out T4-5 Progenitus three times when playing. Basic idea is to ramp into Progenitus and win preferably with Finest Hour out.
I had a long beautiful reply as to why and all of the synergies...then my phone cut out.
I'll be quick. The primordials are ok but you have some of the best creatures in magic in your deck to chose in their place already in your deck. How often is a diluvian amazing? How consistent is rune scarred demon...see the difference. If your opponents are actually playing time stretch and stuff play memory plunder and knowledge exploitation. You quickly meta them not to.
Anyway the same can be said for all the big cards I said to cut. GSz is retarded with your build. Domri rade is quickly proving he is the other best 3 drop planeswalker.
Burgeoning in five colour is just a no brainer try it out. You will see, especially with crucible and fetches.
Last thing I want to say is every card in this build should be both stand alone good and nuts with some other cards or tutor able etc. this deck build is amazing and with a few tweaks I believe one of the best I have seen for both multi and non French 1v1
Here's my list. It needs updating but is still fun to play. I've pulled out T4-5 Progenitus three times when playing. Basic idea is to ramp into Progenitus and win preferably with Finest Hour out.
how do you make only 34 lands work? I know you have a bunch of cards that put lands into your hand, but I have 38 lands and I found that I always need more lands if I don't have crucible/life from the loam. You also are extremely short on duals so it seems you would get color-screwed a lot too.
Anyway, my original progenitus build was similar to yours in that it focused a lot more on ramp, but everytime I ramped to progenitus it ate the first clone/sacrifice/sweeper. Granted, m14 rules protects progenitus from clones (really huge) and sigarda protects from sacrifice (she wasn't printed when I first constructed the deck), so maybe it'll work now, idk
I had a long beautiful reply as to why and all of the synergies...then my phone cut out.
I'll be quick. The primordials are ok but you have some of the best creatures in magic in your deck to chose in their place already in your deck. How often is a diluvian amazing? How consistent is rune scarred demon...see the difference. If your opponents are actually playing time stretch and stuff play memory plunder and knowledge exploitation. You quickly meta them not to.
I've personally been happy with the blue/black/white primordials. They're not the best cards to ramp into, but they're pretty consistent as long as they're played mid-lategame.
Seems like the 3 primordials' use is based on how often you play 1v1 vs multiplayer. They get exponentially better with more opponents around. I usually don't play this deck in 1v1 because I have necropotence in the deck. The deck is pretty top-heavy in mana though so I maybe should cut them.
Anyway the same can be said for all the big cards I said to cut. GSz is retarded with your build.
It is something I had in the deck as basically a 2nd primeval titan. I have been thinking about putting it back though, with zegana/sylvan primordial/progenitor mimic around.
Domri rade is quickly proving he is the other best 3 drop planeswalker.
I've actually always found planeswalkers to be tricky in EDH. They're usually the first things on the table that get attacked or destroyed, and without doubling season it's almost impossible to ever ultimate them unless they can go off quickly. What does Domri do that other cards can't? He's not a reliable draw engine, so you're recommending I play him for his fight ability/ultimate?
Bant charm is interesting, but it's still a 3 mana 1-for-1 in EDH and is difficult to recur.
I have austere and oblivion stone as my 2 sweepers, I'm not sure how many more I need. Sweepers in EDH are almost never dead though and merciless eviction in particular has caught my attention ever since it was printed.
I cut jace for reasons I stated earlier; I only have 1 and he is a better fit in my maelstrom wanderer deck.
Garruk is cool but mid-30s creatures is a bit unreliable for his +1.
Shard convergence is a 4 mana draw 4 land cards. I'm not sure if I want that.
Ranger of Eos needs more targets, but he is really good if there are enough.
Noble Hierarch seems expensive for a mana dork. The exalted with progenitus out is funny though.
Sphinx's rev seems like it does what conflux does.
Burgeoning in five colour is just a no brainer try it out. You will see, especially with crucible and fetches.
I would rather run exploration over burgeoning, and I found exploration to be fairly weak without crucible/loam around.
Last thing I want to say is every card in this build should be both stand alone good and nuts with some other cards or tutor able etc. this deck build is amazing and with a few tweaks I believe one of the best I have seen for both multi and non French 1v1
I love wanderer in my sliver queen deck. She hastes all my guys which moSt people forget and occasionally cascades.
It's better for me in slivers since queen is her own combo engine, especially with mass polymorph, but just my .02
I also should put in a word for burgeoning. Absolutely insane turn 1 play to put you ahead
i don't see how burgeoning is any better than exploration. burgeoning doesn't work with loam/crucible the way exploration does.
in any case, after taking another quick look over the deck, it really does need more early plays than lategame bombs. Again, with the nerf to clones, and sigarda for sacrifice protection, ramping to progenitus is safer than when I first made the deck. I'll be putting up an update later.
I once ran Progenitus as my general for what is now my Karona EDH. It drew a lot of hate in multiplayer whenever I got within 2-3 turns of being able to drop my general. Does this problem ever come up for you?
Interesting list. I wonder how it would match up against my Epic EDH. I doubt we'll ever meet though.
I prefer to run more sweepers. Only having 3 seems really risky. However, your strategy is less defensive than I run for both my 5c lists. I'm also a card-carrying Johnny, so I suppose I'm more used to defensive spells.
The list looks pretty tight, but I think Mangara of Corondor might have a place in the list. Broken with Deadeye / untap effects and a haste enabler. But I can see why you would like Necrotic Sliver.
I've been told by some that they dislike Oracle of Mul Daya for giving opponents too much information. I like it, but I see the point, how do you stand on that matter?
"The distance between genius and insanity... Is measured only by success."
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
Being a few turns away from progenitus mana starts turning heads, but unless you stick a mirari's wake or something to get there super fast, people will probably prioritize other things until progenitus actually hits.
It's 3 sweepers only, but it's got a couple tutors.
I'm cutting the necrotic sliver, it's kinda slow. Will probably put vindicate back in. Mangara would need more support.
oracle is insane. getting mana out is more important than giving information.
Chord of calling maybe, dryad arbor I tested earlier, but the deck has pretty strict mana requirements. If I want to play arbor I'd have to probably cut a nonland for it.
rings of brighthearth is something that I want to test but I haven't decided what to cut for it.
POWER LEVEL
Cards that I did not want to run because of power level, money, being mean, and so on. Feel free to run them if your playgroup allows them, or if your wallet can afford them.
Strip Mine/Wasteland/etc. - Very dirty combination with crucible and life from the loam. Be wary of your mana base though; you don't want to get color screwed.
WHO IS PROGENITUS? WHY PLAY HIM AS YOUR COMMANDER?
Imagine having protection from trolls
There are creatures larger and more powerful like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, and he is not the most efficient general even if you're going for 5-color like Scion of the Ur-Dragon, but if you just like badasses with amazing art, he's a great general for you. He got even better with the new legend rule from M14; clone effects from opponents will not kill him anymore, and it's not a big deal if someone clones your Progenitus, because yours is dealing general damage and theirs isn't. The usual sweepers and edict affects will hit him, so watch out for that.
Because Progenitus has no real abilities that are synergistic with specific cards (for example, Sharuum and every artifact in esper, or Kaalia and a suite of demons/dragons/angels), there are many approaches to making a Progenitus deck. The main thing of note is how he costs 10 mana, so any deck you make will be a slow deck that's heavy on ramp and/or control elements. Common Progenitus builds include playing a ton of planeswalkers and using Progenitus mainly for the colors, or playing a very slow control deck with Progenitus as a finisher. It's important to build with some kind of theme in mind so the cards synergize well with each other.
However, extending to 5-colors opens you up to a myriad of problems, such as being extremely weak to nonbasic land hate. 3-color decks also suffer from nonbasic hate, but the mana requirements in general are not so heavy that you must have 90% nonbasics in play to meet your mana requirements. A well-constructed 3-color deck can play basics if the player thinks there's some nonbasic land hate coming. In a 5-color deck there's not much you can do about it.
Speaking of nonbasic, the manabase is the second problem with 5-color. Both the money required as well as the actual gameplay weaknesses are problems. You can run 5-color on a budget mana base, but most of the cheap multicolor lands enter the battlefield tapped and it makes the deck much slower. As the fetchlands and original dual lands will not drop in price in the foreseeable future, think about investing in those cards.
Of course Progenitus isn't the only 5-color general. You have multiple options available, and they all play quite differently. Here they are in alphabetical order.
Atogatog - I don't think anyone really plays this guy other than for shigs and tiggles. Unless you really want to make an atog tribal deck and I don't even think it's an actual thing.
Child of Alara - Probably the best 5-color control general because of its ability to constantly sweep the board. Every. Turn. Note that to get the sweep effect you have to let Child go to the graveyard when it dies (instead of sending it back to the command zone).
Cromat - Because of its abilities it is suited for a voltron-ish approach. I've never seen this general so I can't say much.
Horde of Notions - A decent 5-color general because it has good stats and a cool graveyard recursion ability. It plays out much like a goodstuff deck with a couple extra elementals (hi Mulldrifter). The difference between this and Progenitus
besides the fact that Progenitus is cooleris that because the mana cost is so much lower, you can run less ramp and have more random beaters (particularly since unless you really voltron it up, Horde of Notions will usually not get the kill), whereas Progenitus is best off being your actual beater and the other card slots that would go to random beaters otherwise fill niches.Karona, False god - I'm not quite sure of a good build that could use this card aside from some kind of aggro tribal deck.
Reaper King - This guy is a serious beating. There aren't many scarecrows (or changelings) that are actually useful in EDH, but getting just 1-2 "free" vindicates is serious value.
Scion of the Ur-dragon - Probably the strongest 5-color general because of how quickly it can kill people. It almost always wins through a combo, either by getting Niv-Mizzet and slapping Curiosity, or Skithiryx and Moltensteel Dragon infect kill. There are also many other dangerous interactions, such as getting the original Nicol Bolas to mind twist the opponent. It can also run typical 5-color combos on top of this, like reanimation, hermit druid, or whatever tickles your fancy. Because of this general's ability to win out of nowhere, it's gotten alot of hate and often they are ganged up on.
Sliver Overlord, Sliver Legion, Sliver Queen - Obviously these are all sliver tribal builds, albeit each general means you approach the game in a different way. Overlord will usually play a control build thanks to all the tutoring and mind controlling, Legion is an aggro build, and Queen is a combo build (making infinite slivers thanks to infinite mana).
So what does Progenitus have that these 5-color generals don't? Or just any other general in general?
He's a badass. That's the only reason you need to play him.
PERSONAL HISTORY
The allure of EDH to me is the accessibility and the atmosphere of the format. You have an extremely large array of cards to choose from, which can result in many decks with wildly varying themes and power levels, so players are better able to construct the decks they desire. Because of the huge emphasis on politics in a typical EDH game, players who have weaker decks can still compete with players with fine-tuned decks as long as they play their politics correctly. This also reduces the monetary barrier to the format compared to something like legacy or even standard.
I consider myself to be a Timmy and a Johnny with some elements of Spike. The Spike part of me, however, barely shows up if there are no tangible prizes to play for. When there are tangible prizes to play for, I do enjoy getting those prizes. However, during EDH with friends where we play for fun and for pride, the frequency that I win at in EDH doesn't matter as much as how I win.
My EDH decks therefore are not for highly competitive play or for entering actual EDH tournaments; they are constructed based on my personal whims. As the playgroup I hang out with don't have hyper-strong decks (they are good decks but they purposely avoid the extremely powerful cards/interactions), I purposely drop the power level of my decks to around theirs. They are my friends, and as such having everyone in the group split games fairly evenly personally makes me happy too. No one likes losing every single game, and the best way to have your playgroup get annoyed with you is to win an overwhelming amount of games, and I don't want to be the guy to force players to get better or to start playing a certain way.
This doesn't mean my EDH decks cannot be fine-tuned for more aggressive playgroups or have a shot in tournaments. Often it just takes a couple of changes in card choices, or a quick change in the theme/game plan (which then relates to making a bunch of easy card changes). You can also often make power level reductions or cost reductions to the deck as well.
DECK HISTORY
I skimmed through a card site to look for legendary creatures, and most of them didn't appeal to me. I was a really bad player back then (now I'm just a regular bad player) and I had no clue what were good or bad generals for the format, so I picked solely on my personal whims. And then I saw Progenitus. The glorious art. The ridiculous mana cost. The words "Protection from everything". And I said "This is it. This is the ultimate badass." And so the brew began.
When I first started using Progenitus as my general, it was more focused and linear and took a Voltron approach. I was running a lot more ramp (like cultivate and skyshroud claim) and fewer utility creatures, in an attempt to rush out Progenitus. However, I found that even if you try to rush him out, he will eat the first board wipe, sacrifice effect, counterspell, or clone effect from another player (edit: M14 changed the clone rules for legends). In effect, I spent 10 mana to have no impact on the board. Also trying to set it up such that I could one-shot someone the turn I play him was clunky, because at 10 mana it's difficult to get everything in play in one turn, meaning that rafiq you just threw in makes it obvious that Progenitus is coming down soon. Sometimes it was also difficult to ramp him out and race with him. It simply did not work for me. The words "Protection from everything" didn't actually mean he had protection from everything. He still had too many ways to die for how much mana you must invest into him.
I wasn't a fan of control decks either, or even today. Control decks are difficult to pilot. As board wipes were also the common way to deal with this guy, it was difficult to get any support cards to stick with Progenitus. I was at a dilemma.
After playing with friends for several years, the deck has adopted into a typical good-stuff deck that focuses on Progenitus being the primary finisher. The deck has some blink effects with graveyard recursion. It doesn't have a narrow focus but it can be piloted in many ways and has a broad array of answers. Many cards are interchangeable, especially the top-end, so you can mold cards as you see fit.
As with all 5-color decks, you're pretty likely to shell out a lot of money just for the mana base. The best mana base would include all 10 fetchlands and all 10 original duals (ABUs). You can get the ABUs later but you must use shocklands instead. The fetchlands I highly recommend that you do get as they are much more important to a deck like this than the ABUs, plus fetches and ABUs will never go down in price in the foreseeable future, so you can think of it as a safe investment than powering your deck.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy pieces of cardboard.
DECK LIST
BY CARD TYPE
1 Progenitus
CREATURES (27)
1 Ashen Rider
1 Baleful Strix
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Clever Impersonator
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Emeria Shepherd
1 Eternal Witness
1 Faerie Artisans
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Gilded Drake
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Havengul Lich
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Mulldrifter
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Urabrask the Hidden
1 Wood Elves
ARTIFACTS/ENCHANTMENTS (20)
1 Aura Shards
1 Birthing Pod
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Coalition Relic
1 Collective Restraint
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Exploration
1 Finest Hour
1 Fist of Suns
1 Greater Good
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Mystic Remora
1 Prismatic Geoscope
1 Rhystic Study
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Brainstorm
1 Bring to Light
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Council's Judgment
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Life from the Loam
1 Praetor's Grasp
1 Reap
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tragic Arrogance
1 Vampiric Tutor
LANDS (38)
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blood Crypt
1 Breeding Pool
1 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Krosan Verge
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
1 Taiga
1 Temple Garden
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
BY MANA COST
1 Progenitus
0 (1)
1 mana crypt
1 (10)
1 birds of paradise
1 brainstorm
1 exploration
1 green sun's zenith
1 mystic remora
1 noble hierarch
1 sensei's divining top
1 sol ring
1 swords to plowshares
1 vampiric tutor
2 (12)
1 baleful strix
1 demonic tutor
1 fauna shaman
1 gilded drake
1 life from the loam
1 lotus cobra
1 phantasmal image
1 reap
1 sakura-tribe elder
1 scavenging ooze
1 stoneforge mystic
1 sylvan library
3 (15)
1 anguished unmaking
1 aura shards
1 chromatic lantern
1 coalition relic
1 council's judgment
1 crucible of worlds
1 eternal witness
1 fist of suns
1 praetor's grasp
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 rhystic study
1 sword of feast and famine
1 sword of fire and ice
1 tireless tracker
1 wood elves
1 birthing pod
1 clever impersonator
1 collective restraint
1 faerie artisans
1 glen elendra archmage
1 greater good
1 oracle of mul daya
1 rafiq of the many
1 skyshroud claim
5 (9)
1 bring to light
1 finest hour
1 fracturing gust
1 havengul lich
1 mirari's wake
1 mulldrifter
1 prismatic geoscope
1 tragic arrogance
1 urabrask the hidden
6 (2)
1 consecrated sphinx
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
7 (2)
1 elesh norn, grand cenobite
1 emeria shepherd
8 (1)
1 ashen rider
LANDS (38)
1 flooded strand
1 polluted delta
1 bloodstained mire
1 wooded foothills
1 windswept heath
1 marsh flats
1 scalding tarn
1 verdant catacombs
1 arid mesa
1 misty rainforest
1 hallowed fountain
1 watery grave
1 blood crypt
1 stomping ground
1 temple garden
1 godless shrine
1 steam vents
1 overgrown tomb
1 sacred foundry
1 breeding pool
1 savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Badlands
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
2 plains
1 island
1 swamp
1 mountain
2 forest
1 Cavern of Souls
1 command tower
1 city of brass
1 reliquary tower
1 Krosan Verge
CARD OPTIONS
Also I will put * for each card, indicating my personal rating of the card, ranging from 1 to 5.
* - I mostly run this card for personal preference.
** - Has a nice niche, but can be cut for a different card.
*** - A good value card. You can cut for a different card but I don't recommend it.
**** - A staple. I do not recommend cutting this card.
***** - One of the cornerstones of the deck, you will almost always want to see this card as soon as you reach the mana to cast it.
Italicized cards are ones that you can replace with cheaper alternatives as they are not cornerstones of the deck. If an expensive card is not italicized, that means I recommend that you do pick it up.
1
***Birds of Paradise - Mana fixing, ramp to a 3-drop on turn 2, can hold an equipment and flies. That's enough for 1 mana.
***Noble Hierarch - It's an early mana ramp option, but also the exalted is surpringly relevant. It lets Progenitus kill in 2 hits instead of 3, and lets your equipped monsters rumble slightly better earlygame. While it only produces bant colors, most of your other earlygame plays don't contain red or black, so it's fine. It's not necessary to run this due to its huge price tag, but it's not a bad option if you can afford it.
2
*****Stoneforge Mystic - Since the deck relies on a lot of small creatures to do your ramping and such, stoneforge allows you to find equipment and turn every stupid little dork into a respectable threat. The powerful equipment also gives a little more value to Rafiq of the Many since he doesn't really do anything unless Progenitus is attacking.
****Lotus Cobra - With 10 fetches, it's worth running him. If you cannot shell out the money for fetches, you can probably cut this guy.
***Baleful Strix - Good blocker and cantrips.
****Sakura-tribe Elder - Green staple.
****Phantasmal Image - Blue staple.
****Gilded Drake - Blue staple. Great to steal big creatures but mainly to deal with generals. If you can't afford this, play some cheap removal spell.
****Scavenging Ooze - The deck's source of graveyard hate. The lifegain is also relevant with the self-damage from fetches, shocklands, and so on.
*****Fauna Shaman - This deck has some graveyard recursion, and repeatable tutors are always good anyway. Any green creature-based deck must run this.
3
***Wood Elves - Fetches for forest shocklands. Reliable ramp.
****Eternal Witness - Staple for green decks.
***Tireless tracker - With all the fetchlands in the deck, this can generate a ton of clues quickly. It's more like a 4-drop as you want to play this and then play your land. Basically it's a slower but more potent Mulldrifter the longer it stays out; it can draw more than two cards that the Mulldrifter gets you, but you need to pay 2 per card, but you can spend the 2 at any time.
*****Ramunap Excavator - Basically every reason why Crucible of Worlds is so insane with fetchlands, this card applies doubly so, as you can quite easily get this out with green tutor effects.
4
****Oracle of Mul Daya - Another staple in green decks. With library manipulation you get far ahead.
*****Rafiq of the Many - Allows Progenitus to kill in one shot, and has good synergy with the swords. It doesn't do much beyond that, but it fills two very important roles and is an important card to the deck.
****Clever Impersonator - Another blue staple card.
****Glen Elendra Archmage - Two negates on a creature. You can't ask for more. Sometimes your clones will initially copy this to garner more value, as when their persist triggers they can copy a different card if needed.
???Faerie Artisans - Testing this guy out. On paper it sounds insane, but we'll see how it works in reality.
5
****Mulldrifter - Divination that's awesome instead of bad. Evoke means you can keep risky starting hands.
***Havengul Lich - In a 5-color deck, he lets you recast any creature you want from any graveyard. That already is badass. He's not that useful early on, but if it's very lategame and you've got a bunch of mana lying around and alot of dead creatures in graveyards, this can singlehandedly take over the game.
***Urabrask the Hidden - A hasty Progenitus is nice and it does help disrupt opponents as well.
6
*****Consecrated sphinx - Blue staple. I was surprised to see this not get banned when Prime Time did.
****Prime Speaker Zegana - Something like a second Consecrated Sphinx. The harder mana costs and the fact that you do need a creature with at least 3-4 power out already makes this more restrictive, but you do get the cards immediately. Cast this when you have Progenitus out for lulz.
7
*****Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - It's amazing against token decks, and it helps soften blows you could face while also letting Progenitus kill in 2 shots (or just smashing face with Avenger's plants in play). Basically with Elesh Norn in play, you win creature combat forever.
****Emeria Shepherd - With the large fetchland suite and various cards that let you play additional lands each turn, this can get out of hand quickly. Just remember that this is more like an 8-drop, as you usually want to play a land after it ETBs.
8
****Ashen Rider - It's an Angel of Despair that costs 1 more mana, but it exiles the permanent instead of simply destroys, and you get an extra shot when it also dies. Even though this deck doesn't have a whole lot of sac outlets to trigger the death trigger, it's still something, and it makes a strong blocker. I've been wanting an 8-drop in the deck while trying to trim a 7-drop, and this replacement seems perfect. This is not to say that Angel of Despair is bad, but right now I want to see if I really need both, because I think Ashen Rider is better overall.
LAND BASE
The land base makes up most of the cost (specifically the fetches and shocklands with the random ABU duals) but is also important. Word of caution: be wary of your life total. Between the fetches, shocklands, and city of brass, you can take a serious amount of damage. I've once lost 20 life before I was even attacked.
*****All 10 fetchlands - These cards help make the deck run. They add value to top, sylvan library, and other library manipulation, and give great card advantage with crucible/life from the loam. You can remove these if you don't have the money, but the deck is weaker without these cards. Note that you can run fetches without original duals, but the original duals aren't worth the money without the fetches. They are expensive, but they are good investments. If their price tag is still too much, try and proxy them and see if you like them (if your playgroup is okay with proxies), and/or get the cheaper fetches first (particularly the allied fetchlands as the Khans reprinting has drastically dropped their price).
*****All 10 shocklands - The 2 damage actually adds up, but the interaction with fetches is worth it. Eventually you want to replace these with the original duals, but it's not an important priority. Much like the fetchlands though, the original duals will only go up in price (and unlike the Zendikar fetches, they will not get a reprint). The green and white shocks have priority over the other shocks in terms of what stays and what goes as I pick up more ABU duals, as the green shocks get fetched by Wood Elves and the green and white shocks get fetched by Krosan Verge.
*****Savannah, Taiga, Plateau, Badlands, Scrubland, Bayou - These ABU duals are the only ones listed because they happen to be the only ones I own.
****Krosan Verge - Another fetch. It can be a little slow but it's actual ramp and color fixes well enough with the shocklands.
*****Command Tower - Thanks, Wizards, for printing a true EDH staple. I can't think of any decks other than mono-color and maybe B/x that wouldn't want this card.
****Reflecting Pool - Staple in any multi-color deck.
****City of Brass - Again a staple in multi-color, and the 1 damage barely matters anyway.
****Cavern of Souls - There's no real creature theme in the deck, but play this if you need a creature to stick.
***Reliquary Tower - The deck can actually fill your hand with cards fairly easily, so this is nice to have.
2 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Forest
NON-CREATURE BOMBS
These are cards that aren't creatures, but they're huge and are badass.
***Finest Hour - In most cases it's an enchantment-version of Rafiq. However it's interesting to note that having both Rafiq and Finest Hour "doubles" your effect. You get to attack once, gain double strike (and more exalted triggers), and then you get another combat step. This is usually win-more but it is something to note.
ENGINES
These are the cards where you really want 1 in your starting hand, because they give you constant card advantage, but you usually don't want more than 1 in your starting hand because you need to be doing something other than drawing cards. If you have a tutor, you typically will fetch out one of these cards if you don't have one.
*****Birthing Pod - I heard repeatable tutors are good. What about repeatable tutors that get you mana discounts on your tutored cards?
****Mystic Remora - Criminally underplayed card that slowly seems to be getting the love it deserves. In some ways it's a 1-mana rhystic study that makes people pay 4 instead of 1, which is insane. The cumulative upkeep cost is annoying and doesn't affect creature spells, but it's still a 1-mana card, though you generally don't play this on turn 1.
****Rhystic Study - Blue staple.
*****Sylvan Library - It's effectively a free top effect once a turn and you can pay life (a hefty amount) to get cards. Against control decks this is great as the life barely matters. One of the best turn 2 plays in the deck.
*****Crucible of Worlds - With fetches, this is one of your best sources of card advantage. Without fetches, you are fine not running this.
*****Life from the Loam - See crucible. Also dredge helps fill the graveyard to get more stuff with graveyard recursion cards. However unlike Crucible, you may want to run this even if you don't have many fetches as the dredge is helpful, but it certainly becomes much weaker.
****Greater Good - Sac outlets are important in EDH.
ADDITIONAL RAMP
Since Progenitus is 10 mana, you need to ramp pretty hard to get him out. These are some noncreatures that help get him out.
*****Sol Ring - Staple. Many of the temporary alliances forged in an EDH game are based on who gets the turn 1 sol rings. It usually doesn't literally help you cast Progenitus, but this helps you cast everything else in the deck.
*****Mana Crypt - Ridiculously expensive card but so powerful. If you can afford the crypt, you play it, no questions, even in Progenitus. Much like sol ring, it doesn't usually cast Progenitus, but it casts everything else.
***Exploration - It's a fairly weak card unless you have Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds. However, if you have the combo assembled you ramp insanely hard. With cheap tutors in the deck, it's not a bad idea to tutor early to assemble this combo.
*****Fist of Suns - Do you like playing Progenitus for WUBRG and not WWUUBBRRGG? Much like Mirari's Wake, it's fragile, but untap with it and you get heavy discounts on your bombs, and at 3-mana it's a bit easier to sneak in.
*****Chromatic Lantern - It's the best of the 3-mana rocks for 5-color decks as it fixes your entire land base. Just make sure you don't get screwed if this suddenly dies.
***Coalition Relic - A reliable but unexciting mana rock. Usually not as crucial as Chromatic Lantern, but the times it ramps extra hard can matter. Also it's good to spread out your ramp options so you don't get hosed by specific cards (like Armageddon).
***Skyshroud Claim - Typical 4-mana spell that gets two lands. But these can be shocklands or ABU duals, and they have the opportunity to enter untapped.
*****Mirari's Wake - I like mana. AFAIK it's the lowest CMC card that doubles your mana. Also the +1/+1 is surprisingly relevant because it lets Progenitus kill in 2 shots instead of 3.
***Prismatic Geoscope - It ETBs tapped which sucks, and it has a weakness that you don't normally want in your artifact mana; it doesn't do anything after an Armageddon. Still, it ramps very hard, and it's very easy for this to tap for WUBRG.
REMOVAL/SWEEPERS
Racing to Progenitus is nice, but Progenitus isn't a particularly strong general. You'll frequently run into opponents doing things faster than you or trying to disrupt you. These help control the board a bit in case you don't get the nut draws or if something's stopping you from doing anything.
***Anguished Unmaking - Exiles any nonland permanent at 3 mana and instant speed. Very flexible.
****Tragic Arrogance - A very interesting sweeper as you keep your best creature, artifact, enchantment, and planeswalker, while your opponents each keep their worst of those types. Theoretically that sounds insane at 5 mana.
****Aura Shards - When many artifacts and enchantments are engines that make decks run, this demands an answer or it will stifle your opponents out of the game.
***Fracturing Gust - An artifact/enchantment sweeper at instant speed, but the lifegain is surprisingly relevant with all the fetchlands and shocklands. The card is completely playable even without the lifegain though.
****Swords to Plowshares - Cheap card to deal with aggro generals, or just giant bomb creatures like Consecrated Sphinx. You need to keep opponents honest.
****Council's Judgment - It gets around hexproof, indestructible, etc. If things go right with this card, you will be able to exile more than one thing, which is amazing. It's not that good when you're ahead since your opponents can conspire against you and vote for something useless, but chances are if you're casting this card, you aren't ahead.
OTHER
These are cards that aren't creatures, or lands, or quite engines. Basically they're value cards.
*****Sensei's Divining Top - Staple.
*****Vampiric Tutor - Staple.
*****Demonic Tutor - Staple.
*****Brainstorm - Like in eternal formats, brainstorm + fetchlands is a good engine. You'll normally have a handful of cards that you don't need at the moment, which means in most cases it almost acts like Ancestral Recall.
****Reap - A 2-mana instant that can potentially get you a ton of cards from your graveyard to your hand, with the only requirement that someone on the table has a bunch of black permanents on the battlefield, which isn't hard to do given that black is a very powerful color in EDH and usually at least one opponent will be in black. Remember you just need one opponent to have one black permanent before this becomes Regrowth which is already a very playable card, and anything more is gravy.
***Praetor's Grasp - IMO this is an underrated card for 5-color decks, since you can play anything you get. Sometimes you'll be able to find answers that this deck doesn't have space to run, but you need to be familiar with your opponents' decks to get the most out of this. The real drawback is that after you cast whatever you tutor for, it usually goes to that player's graveyard for possible recursion, which can be a problem.
****Sword of Fire and Ice - Equipments give important value to the deck, as they turn all your earlygame creatures into respectable threats, and this is my favorite equipment. It draws cards and pings small utility creatures.
****Sword of Feast and Famine - The discard doesn't really matter, but the mirari's wake effect is nuts. However, make sure you plan your turn such that if someone can flash in a blocker, remove the sword during combat, or so on, to make sure you don't get the untap lands effect, that you do not screw up your entire plan. I've seen many people lose because they didn't account for their lands not untapping after combat.
****Green Sun's Zenith - A card that was insane when Primeval Titan was legal as it acted as like a second Titan. While the titan is banned, it's still a very flexible tutor that helps ramp you early, draws you cards late (Zegana) and is overall good.
***Collective Restraint - It's +1 mana over Propaganda, but in return you're often taxing enemies 5 mana per creature to attack you, which can help stall aggro against you. Just remember that it doesn't actually protect your planeswalkers from getting smacked.
***Bring to light - If needed, you can tutor up Demonic Tutor, though you usually will find a creature, sorcery, or instant that will get you out of whatever pickle you may be in.
OTHER OPTIONS
As with all generals, you want to figure out what exactly you want your general to do, then the other 99 fill in the holes. Whenever I create a deck, I break down cards into one of several broad categories, with some cards able to fill more than one role...
1) Lands
2) Mana ramp (important to note exactly how it produces mana, and the CMC)
3) Disruption spells (broken down into several subcategories of spot removal, sweepers, counterspells, graveyard hate, mana/card-draw denial, etc.)
4) Engines (general spells dedicated to giving card advantage, which can be broken down into several subcategories of actual card draw, graveyard recursion, etc.).
5) Tutors
6) Finishers (cards that end the game on their own, or can finish the game with 1-2 additional pieces in play. In a Progenitus build these tend to be the cards that drastically cut down on Progenitus' clock.)
I'll add more categories when necessary depending on the build; my 1v1 Talrand build, for example, will also note which cards are instants and sorceries. If I were to build a Kaalia of the Vast deck, I'd note which cards are angels/demons/dragons. And so on.
The numbers you want to run for each general category all depend on your general and your mana curve. An Isamaru, Hound of Konda deck is going to need less lands and mana ramp than a Progenitus deck. The Isamaru deck will need more finishers than a Progenitus deck.
Since all Progenitus does is beat face, he's going to be your major finisher and the other 99 should be dedicated to stalling until Progenitus can win the game. You can have a handful of slots that can complement him (Rafiq of the Many doesn't do much other than give Progenitus double strike, but it turns him from a normal 3-turn clock to an OHKO, so he is an important role player) or have a few alternate wincons in case you can't stick Progenitus for whatever reason (Avenger of Zendikar builds up a threatening army on its own) but otherwise, cards that just beat face are highly not recommended in a Progenitus build. If you want to play a beater, figure out what roles that beater does, what it does better than Progenitus, and then see if you can find cheaper alternatives that do that certain role but at a lower CMC.
For example, Akroma, Angel of Wrath is pretty cool. Maybe you want to put her in a Progenitus deck because she can block fliers well while Progenitus can't. But she can't beat face as well as Progenitus. So try and think of cards that can deal with fliers but at a lower CMC and then stick with Progenitus as your finisher. For example, Akroma's Memorial lets Progenitus block fliers now (as well as all your other creatures). Or play a Silklash Spider to keep the skies clear. You'll have Silklash Spider to keep the skies clear usually better than Akroma, and Progenitus will beat face usually better than Akroma.
Then if you're worried that your Progenitus can get answered, find ways that can counteract it. For example, if you are worried about Progenitus getting countered, play Cavern of Souls or perhaps your own counterspells. Such cards can also play double duty; counterspells can protect Progenitus, but also hinder opponents' spells too.
Of course you could simply play Progenitus for the colors and go for something like 5-color superfriends with Doubling Season, or perhaps some kind of pillowfort/enchantress/stax deck. However I feel like if you have very little intention on ever casting Progenitus you might as well play a different general.
With that all said, you'll need to balance your deck well, because Progenitus decks are very slow. The numbers I would run for a Progenitus build are something as follows...
1) Lands (37-40)
2) Mana ramp (15-20)
3) Disruption spells (10-15 of varying types; a couple spot removal, a couple sweepers, etc.)
4) Engines (15-20).
5) Tutors (5-10)
6) Finishers (2-3)
As said earlier, some cards have overlapping roles; for example, Birthing Pod is an engine because it gives you a lot of potential ETB effects from creatures, but due to its nature, it's also a tutor (obvious reasons), mana ramp (if you fetch out creatures that ramp), disruption, and so on. However it's not a pure tutor like Demonic Tutor would be because you may not have the right creatures out in order to pod into the things you need, so keep those things in mind.
Also keep in mind that the color costs of your spells is important. With stronger landbases you can be more aggressive in color costs. If you have the fetchland suite, you can be more aggressive with color costs in cards; if you want to run cheaper lands, having low mana color requirements will help out (for example, without fetches, you probably won't be able to play something like Necropotence).
With that said, here are the alternatives I have considered. Feel free to make other suggestions or alternatives...
POWER LEVEL
Cards that I did not want to run because of power level, money, being mean, and so on. Feel free to run them if your playgroup allows them, or if your wallet can afford them.
Strip Mine, Wasteland, etc. - Very dirty combination with crucible and life from the loam, to the point where you should ask your playgroup if they're fine with this. Be wary of your mana base though; you don't want to get color screwed.
Survival of the Fittest - You can probably tune the deck so that, if you land this card, you immediately win the game. However if that's the case you'd probably be better off playing a general that helps centralizes this combo (Karador, Ghost Chieftain is very good for graveyard tinkering).
Imperial Recruiter - Costs a ton of money, but is a fine fit for the deck.
Mana Crypt - It's a better sol ring, although the damage could be a problem as lots of the lands do damage, and Progenitus decks typically take awhile to kill so the damage could add up. The biggest problem is the money though.
Time Stretch - If you resolve this card, you usually win. In fact, it won so much upon resolution, that it was really the only win-con in the deck. It centralized the deck's plan, which I personally don't really like. It does have weaknesses though, such as fork effects, counters, and so on.
"Every good turn starts with a Time Stretch." - me
Cyclonic Rift - I think this is a powerful card. Maybe too powerful. In a fully-tuned playgroups this should be fine, but it was too oppressive with the people I play with, and often I relied on this card too much to close out games. In order to get a better feel for the rest of my deck, I cut this.
BUDGET CUTS
Cards that I don't run because I am running more expensive cards. But if you are tight on money then feel free to consider these alternatives.
Land base - As the lands make up most of the money, you can run any sort of nonbasics to fix your mana as there are tons of them out there and each are priced differently, so pick up the ones your budget can afford. Off the top of my head I'll list the most popular ones in order of my personal power ranking for a 5-color deck.
---
TOP TIER
Fetchlands (Flooded Strand)
Command Tower
HIGH TIER
Original Duals (Tundra)
Shocklands (Hallowed Fountain)
City of Brass, Mana Confluence, Reflecting Pool, Cavern of Souls
MID TIER
Tango lands (Prairie Stream) - bottom tier without fetchlands
Filter Lands (Mystic Gate)
Checklands (Glacial Fortress)
Scrylands (Temple of Enlightenment)
Bouncelands (Azorius Chancery)
Trilands (Seaside Citadel, Sandsteppe Citadel)
Painlands (Adarkar Wastes)
LOW TIER
Vivids (Vivid Meadow)
Manlands (Celestial Colonnade)
Fastlands (Seachrome Coast)
BOTTOM TIER
Taplands (Azorius Guildgate, Sejiri Refuge, Tranquil Cove, etc. Lands that always enter tapped and don't have an appreciable effect to make up for it)
---
Remember that without fetches, you can probably cut crucible/life from the loam, further cutting the budget.
Also remember that the weaker your nonbasics are, the fewer colorless lands you can play. When your landbase is weaker, you need as much colored mana as possible to help cover for some of the varying mana costs.
Cheaper equipment - Swords are expensive (although the swords from the scars of mirrodin block are more reasonable in price than the swords from the original mirrodin, body and mind and war and peace are not particularly exciting in EDH), and many other equipments are not usually worth the card spot. The equipments that draw you cards, remove some permanents, and generate mana, all at reasonable mana costs, are the ones you want to bother with. The equipments are here to give some value to your dumb value creatures, as they're not going to beatdown opponents with equipments attached to them, and Progenitus can't even equip them either. If you can't afford the premium swords you probably should remove the equipments and stoneforge mystic and add more ramp/sweepers/etc.
Coiling Oracle, Borderland Ranger, Man-o'-War, Trinket Mage, etc - These are all fine cheap creatures when they enter the battlefield, but I picked out the ones I feel are the most effective. If you can't afford cards like guilded drake, or just some of the other expensive cards in general, feel free to use these. Generally these cheap creatures should ramp you, get you a card, tutor for something, or act as disruption.
MISC. ALTERNATIVES
Cards that I have considered originally and/or played around with, but ultimately cut them or haven't tried for whatever reason. It doesn't make these cards bad though, but with 5 colors the bar is pretty high.
Angel of Despair - Got kicked out by Ashen Rider. In 2 or 3 color decks this is still extremely playable alongside Ashen Rider, but in 5-color you may want to just stick with Ashen Rider.
Azusa, lost but Seeking - Great interaction with crucible and life from the loam, but it was kinda a dead card if I didn't have either of those two. She's more a general you build around rather than have as in a random deck.
Deadeye Navigator - Extremely powerful and the only real reason why I don't have it is because I'm trying to see if I can take this deck in a different direction.
Deathrite Shaman - It's ramp and graveyard hate all in one. However it doesn't ramp very reliably (exiling a land from your own graveyard early on could hurt your Life from the Loam and Crucible of Worlds), and it can only graveyard hate once per turn. It's hard to ask more from a 1-drop, but I was never satisfied with it.
Edric, Spymaster of Trest - It's good if your cheap dudes have evasion. Otherwise he doesn't do much.
False Prophet - If you have sac outlets this is a good reusable sweeper. Otherwise no.
Farhaven Elf - Similar to wood elves, but the deck runs fewer basics than a usual deck. I also didn't feel like I needed both cards, and took the one that finds shocklands/duals. However feel free to run this in a more budget list if you run more basics.
Fierce Empath - 3-mana tutors are playable, but the range of things this fetches are fairly restrictive. With 5-color, look for better options.
Fleshbag Marauder - In multiplayer games this is a superior diabolic edict. It's a nice card to pick up with Sun Titan as well. Still the bar is pretty high in 5-color.
Greenwarden of Murasa - It's a good piece of graveyard recursion, but I'm happy with my graveyard package and I found this to be unnecessary.
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur - Another cool card, but the deck doesn't really need card drawing. This is amazing to mind twist an opponent though. Be careful about Bribery.
Knight of the Reliquary - Can do some interesting things here, like dump fetchlands into the graveyard, but there aren't enough tricks to warrant this. Too many lands have to go for color fixing instead of utility. In selesnya and 3-color decks this is absolutely amazing though as you can do things like tutor up Sejiri Steppe at instant speed.
Magus of the Future, Future Sight - Great synergy with top. Otherwise it's not really worth it.
Reassembling Skeleton - Amazing with skullclamp and okay with birthing pod (repeatedly find 3-drops) and greater good. Doesn't feel that strong otherwise.
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary - Ramps hard, and the shocks count toward the forest count. Also has great synergy with Prismatic Omen. However it doesn't color fix, which is a problem in 5-color, and it's not that amazing without Prismatic Omen out. In multiplayer this also puts a big target on you. Also he's currently banned.
Phyrexian Metamorph - A strong clone card, but it wouldn't hurt to have a few more positive interactions with artifacts to run this over one of the other many powerful clone effects (such as having Tezzeret to fetch this out).
Puppeteer Clique - One of my favorite cards, but with Sepulchral Primordial around to do this guy's job but better, I felt like I had to cut him because of over-redundancy.
Sheoldred, Whispering One - A bit too slow.
Somberwald Sage - It ramps hard but it's at its best in decks that have more creatures.
Sun Titan - With the printing of Emeria Shepherd, I decided to make a swap for my choice of graveyard recursion. Shepherd costs 1 more mana and generally requires more effort to get going, but it can get really ugly, and Shepherd can get plenty of permanents back that Titan couldn't. Sun Titan is still an extremely good card in 3, 2, and monocolor decks where you may have fewer fetchlands (since the fetchlands are what makes Shepherd really ugly), and often you may want both anyway, but for this build I think Shepherd is better.
Trinket Mage - Strong if it's worth tutoring for Skullclamp or in artifact-heavy decks. Not very exciting otherwise.
Vendilion Clique - Early disruption, early flier if you have a sword, and can skullclamp away. Too bad you can't get it back with Reveilark, but you can with Sun Titan. Still it didn't feel like it did enough, and especially not for how much money it costs.
vorinclex, voice of hunger - Cool card, but he doesn't instantly win you the game and doesn't directly affect the board. These are usually better in the big mana green ramp decks.
Weathered Wayfarer - This is better in a white deck that doesn't ramp with lands so you can always get activations. Here there are enough land ramp cards where this doesn't do anything sometimes.
Yavimaya Elder - 3-for-1s at 3 mana are good, but the bar is really high in this deck.
Shardless Agent, Bloodbraid Elf - These are very efficient creatures that generate an extra card, but I felt like, with 5 colors, it was more important to have a toolbox deck.
Diluvian Primordial - In theory, it has the highest potential power level of any of the 5 primordials, or just cards in general. In reality you will usually not be stealing time stretches or primal surges or such, unless said cards were milled into the graveyard beforehand. Normally you'll hit ramp spells, tutors, or spot removals, and occasionally sweepers, and you may have a player at the table with no legal targets at all. It's still a strong value card though, but when deckbuilding you do need to watch your mana curve.
Sepulchral Primordial - Similar to Diluvian Primordial, it can either be a dead card or a massive bomb. He also overlaps with Havengul Lich, and I stuck with the Lich because I can get stuff from my own graveyard with it.
Luminate Primordial - It's a super Duplicant, but most of the time I'd rather have a sweeper than this guy.
Non-permanent ramp cards such as cultivate - They are fine.
Khalni Heart Expedition - An underrated ramp card but still there are better options.
Conflux - A hilarious card, but because of red not being as strong in EDH, you can have problems getting enough targets to get the full value.
Mind spring/blue sun's zenith/Sphinx's revelation/etc - These cards are great at refilling your hand especially since the deck ramps a lot. However I went with creatures that give card advantage instead.
Genesis Wave - The deck doesn't ramp very hard, so your Waves aren't very large. With Tooth and Nail, Progenitus, and others already as bombs, this felt superfluous.
Last Stand - Funny interaction with prismatic omen but I currently don't have room for it anyway. Don't run it otherwise.
Primal Surge - It's a very powerful card, but you need to build your deck around it. This deck currently runs too many non-permanent cards. However you can definitely tweak the deck.
Rite of Replication - At base it's a totally serviceable card, and when kicked it's ridiculously powerful. However, because it gets stopped by instant-speed removal, it's a bit risky. It's a high-risk high-reward spell, and I felt like in a deck that wants to play long, it's better to stick with safer cards.
Terastodon - Pretty insane if you have flicker effects or constant recursion to reuse its ability.
Tooth and Nail - It's an extremely good card, but it's at its best when it's fetching out an instant win combo (e.g. Kiki-Jiki + Zealous Conscripts). I dislike 2-card instant win combos, so in this build T&N is simply a powerful value card and didn't fill an important niche. I decided to cut it to experiment with my other value cards.
Rune-Scarred Demon - A decent value card, but there are alot of strong 7-drop creatures, and this never really filled an important role.
Shard Convergence - It's basically a 4-mana "draw 4 lands". Fine in a budget deck, but fetches + crucible + loam is superior.
Wargate - Tutors at a fair mana cost are always worth consideration. However it requires a fairly high mana cost upfront.
Vindicate - 3-mana 1-for-1 at sorcery speed is decent but the bar in 5-color is high. It's a cool card but its power level isn't quite enough.
Greater Good - Sac outlets are nice in EDH, but most creatures in this deck are expendable except for Progenitus. Also, most creatures don't have a lot of power so you're not drawing a lot of cards either.
Maelstrom Nexus - I love cascade, but a 5 mana card that didn't do anything until the next turn felt kinda dead. It also has a tendency to whiff (like playing sun titan and cascading into birds of paradise), but when it hits big it's incredible. You would need to tweak your deck around this and get more library manipulation as well as reduce cards that are dead when you cascade into them.
Necropotence - Necro is powerful. So powerful that once it was dropped I became one of the biggest targets on the table. The other problem is that because the deck has no lifegain, along with the fetchlands and shocklands, and combined with drawing additional aggro, the life payments added up. I believe Necro is better when you can prevent from getting attacked, either by locking the board or quickly doing an infinite combo. This deck doesn't do either. In "unfair" decks Necro is broken, but in "fair" decks it's just a really good draw engine.
Prismatic Omen - If you're low budget, you probably want this to help color fix you. Alternately if there's a lot of nonbasic land hate, you can fetch out basics and have this to help color fix you. There's also some hilarious interactions, such as Prismatic Omen + Last Stand. However, because it doesn't actually ramp you, if you can get your colors fine (fetchlands + shocklands manabase) it's not that helpful.
Artifact ramp that produce colorless mana - I've tried cards like thran dynamo and grim monolith. The ramp is great, but they don't provide color fixing, which is a problem with Progenitus being WWUUBBRRGG.
Mimic Vat - A very good card, but it doesn't give immediate value, and it's at its best when good creatures already died. I liked it when I had it in this deck and it may find its way back, but for now I'm experimenting with other cards.
Mind's Eye - A great draw-engine, but 5-color decks can find better things.
Skullclamp - Amazing with 1-toughness dudes, but the deck doesn't focus on them too much.
Urza's Filter - Somewhat awkward in that it doesn't actually reduce Progenitus' mana cost until there are tax effects. However in the right built it will reduce nearly everything by 2. But the fact that it affects opponents is an issue, even if they may not have as many multicolor spells as Progenitus.
Garruk Wildspeaker - In theory, it ramps you, gets a body in play to strap on swords, and can give your creatures an extra punch and also allow Progenitus to kill in 2 shots. However, it was hard to keep it alive to gain much value out of it.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - Works well with oracle of mul daya and fetches, and is overall very powerful. Usually not worth the massive price tag though.
Ancient Tomb - Sol ring land, but it doesn't color fix early on, and later on it's a temple of the false god that damages you.
Dryad Arbor - It did a lot of cute things with the green fetchlands, but it is affected by summoning sickness and only makes green.
Forbidden Orchard - Great mana fixing, but I cut it because I was running the swords, and that was a problem because these 1/1s can usually block the sword'ed dude. However if you cut the swords, feel free to put this in, as most other equipment don't really need to hit a player for full effect.
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea - In a pinch it can get you a card. Also hilarious with Consecrated Sphinx. But it's relatively weak otherwise and it interferes with mana.
Temple of the False God - I like ancient tomb more, although if you can find room feel free to run this as well.
Volrath's Stronghold - Graveyard recursion on a land. I'm quite satisfied with the recursion suite I have already though, and I decided to try use extra lands that tap for colors instead. Every 3-color black deck wants this card though.
More lands in general - The deck currently has 38 lands. The curve is fairly high, but you have some cheap card draw and crucible/life from the loam to hopefully not miss an early land drop. You could add 1-2 more lands to the deck and be fine if that's what you want.
Early removal - Aggressive decks can put you behind, and it's hard to get back. This deck spends most of the early turns ramping. If your playgroup loves aggressive EDH decks, you should cut some of the big mana cards for some cheap spot removal, be it in the form of creatures like Shriekmaw or noncreatures like Swords to Plowshares.
Random big fat haymaker card - You can alter the top end of the deck with your timmy cards of choice; some good choices include Rune-scarred demon and Sphinx of Uthuun. However, the card you want should be some kind of removal or card draw. You don't need a big beatstick (such as Sphinx of the Steel Wind), because at this high mana cost, you will soon have access to Progenitus. An exception is Avenger of Zendikar, who WILL win you the game in a couple turns if it is not dealt with.
Cards with lifegain - As you do take damage with your lands, you'll be at a lower life than most players on the board. Pure lifegain is almost always bad, but cards like Disciple of Bolas or Umezawa's Jitte are acceptable as they do other things while gaining life.
Indestructible/protection/etc. - Effects that can help Progenitus stay on the board after some kind of removal spell. The problem is that there are many ways to get around Progenitus. Sweepers are the obvious ones, but sweepers that simply destroy (e.g. Wrath of God) can be stopped with an indestructible effect (e.g. Boros Charm) but those that exile (Merciless Eviction) are stopped with different effects. Sacrifice effects (e.g. Grave Pact) also require different things to stop. Basically the only effects I can think of that can protect Progenitus from all these types of removal are Ghostway (get Progenitus off the board while triggering all other ETB creatures you control) and Time Stop/counterspell effects.
STRATEGY
The most important thing to have in your starting hand is a card that can give you extra cards but is 3 mana or less. That way you can get something going early on to keep your hand full. Your strongest plays include stoneforge mystic, fauna shaman, sylvan library, top, life from the loam, or crucible of worlds, among others. The deck is very mana hungry so you can't gas out on lands.
The next best thing to do is ramp. Get an early sakura tribe elder, chromatic lantern, or the like and start getting that mana.
Once you reach 5+ mana, you can really get going. You start getting access to your bombs and sweepers. You have plenty of targets for Karmic Guide and Reveilark and the like, but make sure when playing around with your graveyard that you don't run into a GY hate card.
In most cases you will not have an explosive start. Your most important pieces include getting cards in your hand and not really building your board presence (it depends on your starting hand, but this is the most normal case), hitting all your land drops in the process. You have multiple sweepers and multiple tutors to control the board and slow the game down. Once in awhile you will get an explosive start, but that can happen for any real deck.
Knowing also when to play Progenitus is important. With the nerf to clones, this leaves sacrifice effects (aka "edicts") and sweepers are the only 2 ways to deal with it once it's in play, although counters can get it preemptively. Getting Progenitus killed is a problem because it's a 10 mana investment that dies to something that is significantly less than 10 mana, meaning it sets you back a lot in terms of tempo. For example, if another player has a fairly strong creature board presence, you normally don't want to play Progenitus, as it just gives another player the incentive to sweep. If you have very few creatures in play and there are multiple black decks on the table, you can easily run straight into an edict effect. And so on.
Your main win con is simply smashing with Progenitus. Rafiq lets Progenitus OHKO someone. Elesh Norn and Mirari's Wake cut the required hits for Progenitus kills from 3 to 2. Your last big finisher is with Avenger of Zendikar and swarming over with tokens and your massive amount of fetchlands; you also have plenty of clone effects as well. Nicol Bolas and Karn can also ultimate, but planeswalkers usually don't last that long unless everyone else on the table is gassed out. In a pinch, you can use Praetor's Grasp to find someone else's finisher and use that.
Most people tend to ignore the Progenitus deck until you start approaching the mana to cast him. Once he is played, you must expect a sweeper. You also must expect that any blue mage with mana open is going to counter Progenitus. Depending on the situation you can use Progenitus to bait out those things, or you use other things to bait out before you throw in Progenitus.
Your first priority is to just not die. The deck has a lot of gas and draw power, so you have good chances of winning long games. But the deck doesn't have too many plays that can put pressure on the opponent early. There's also no life gain and there's a lot of life-loss, with the fetches, shocks, and necro. In terms of what to watch out for, in general, white decks have a lot of sweepers and tax/stax effects, blue decks have counters, black decks have edicts and tax/stax effects, green decks can go over the top, and artifact decks can often kill you before you even get Progenitus out.
The most important thing, as with all multiplayer games, is to play politics. Try to not be the big threat on the table because it's difficult to win out of nowhere with this deck. The deck wants to play a long game.
STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES OF CURRENT VERSION
+ Can rebound from board sweeps fairly easily as long as you are prepared
+ Cares little about tuck effects. The deck has multiple ways to win without relying on Progenitus, and has multiple tutors to get him back if needed.
- Nonbasic land hate (Blood Moon, Contamination, etc). The deck runs plenty, because 5-color requires it. Targeted land destruction can be a problem if you are not prepared. Mass land D is also a problem unless you have mana rocks or life from the loam/crucible, but mass land D is strong against a lot of decks. Nonbasic land hate is what will hurt you more than the other decks on the table.
- Tutor griefers (Aven Mindcensor, Stranglehold, etc). The deck shuffles and tutors very often, especially with fetchlands.
- Minimal infinite combos/ability to instantly win.
- Humility or Torpor Orb. You don't have too many outs to get them. However since most decks get shut off by this, usually someone will answer this for you if you can't.
CHANGELOG
7/22/17
+ Bring to Light
+ Anguished Unmaking
+ Brainstorm
+ Tireless Tracker
+ Emeria Shepherd
+ Greater Good
+ Baleful Strix
+ Prismatic Geoscope
+ Ramunap Excavator
- Karn Liberated
- Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
- Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
- Karmic Guide
- Reveillark
- Thada Adel, Acquisitor
- Progenitor Mimic
- Solemn Simulacrum
- Avenger of Zendikar
The big 3 walkers (Karn, ugin, Nicol Bolas) are badasses, but they didn't really synergize with the deck. The deck is more about gaining value through the creatures and the walkers were clunky. In particular the addition of Collective Restraint, which actually is quite good at keeping me alive but doesn't keep alive any of my planeswalkers, convinced me to drop them. I decided to run some creatures or low-CMC spells that largely replicate what their primary role was to streamline the deck (Karn as a single-target removal spell, Nicol Bolas as removal + creature theft, and Ugin as a sweeper).
The removal of KG and Rev were tough, but the reason why I ultimately decided to cut them (for now anyway) is that they are TOO good and TOO ubiquitous. So many white-based creature decks run the combo, and it is so easy to go infinite with these two that I intentionally had to not run any sac outlets (at least sac outlets that require 0 mana to activate like Viscera Seer). It's a combo that's tried and true and I decided to cut it to gauge the power of the other cards in the deck. In a way it's like why I removed Cyclonic Rift from the deck; it's really damn good and I would typically lean on them too hard.
Bring to Light was a card that I was toying with, but I decided that 5-mana tutors are still good and flexible. While it technically only can get a creature, instant, or sorcery, it can get Demonic Tutor so it technically can get you anything if you really want to.
Anguished Unmaking is a flexible removal spell. Exiling + instant speed are both crucial. The 3 life loss is usually negligible, but just be aware that the life loss from the fetchlands and shocklands do add up.
Brainstorm is just too powerful to not play in a deck with so many fetchlands.
Tireless Tracker is an early play that helps draw cards, particularly with all the fetchlands in the deck. Mana-intensive but low CMC, and fetchable off green sun's zenith in a pinch.
Emeria Shepherd is coming back in. With KG and Rev both going out, there's enough room for the graveyard recursion Shepherd provides, especially with the fetchlands in the deck.
With the removal of KG and Rev, I don't feel dirty playing a sac outlet (KG + Rev + sac outlet that costs no mana to activate = easy infinite). The three sac outlets I have my eyes on are Viscera Seer (1-mana), Phyrexian Altar (makes mana), and Greater Good (draws cards). I decided to play greater good to retest it again, but I'm quite open to playing the others in here, maybe in place of greater good.
My meta started to have a bit more aggressive attacking generals/decks, so I decided to play Baleful Strix as an early blocker.
Prismatic Geoscope is just for testing. It ramps hard but it does have noticeable drawbacks (it ETBs tapped and it produces nothing after an Armageddon).
The additional cuts were Thada Adel, Progenitor Mimic, and Solemn Simulacrum. Thada Adel is strong on paper but would often get killed before it did anything, and since my meta isn't hyper cutthroat there actually weren't many times when the islandwalk would let her get in unharassed. Progenitor Mimic is strong, but it was more powerful when Reveilark could get it back. Without it, PM is still strong but I decided to cut it to test other cards. Solemn is a nice value card but it never felt like it did enough.
Avenger of Zendikar gets replaced with Ramunap Excavator. Avenger was powerful but often got faced with a board wipe before it did anything. Ramunap is just another Crucible of Worlds card that also gets fetched with Green Sun's Zenith and other creature tutors, and gives another form of land graveyard recursion.
12/7/16
+ Bayou
+ Blood Crypt
+ Finest Hour
+ Fracturing Gust
+ Reap
+ Faerie Artisans
- 1 Island
- 1 Swamp
- Umezawa's Jitte
- Bane of Progress
- Emeria Shepherd
- Carpet of Flowers
Picked up another ABU dual, and I decided to put blood crypt back in for now. I cut down on some of the basics. This makes me even weaker to nonbasic land hate, but the deck can't really play around that anyway.
Finest Hour is essentially another copy of Rafiq. I decided to cut Jitte as it was difficult to use it properly. often the creature with jitte would die in combat and it was mana intensive to keep strapping it to other creatures. Finest Hour allows you to not rely solely on Rafiq for the OHKOs.
Fracturing Gust replaced bane of progress because of the lifegain. The deck has serious problems with life because of the fetchlands (even if you are very careful with not shocking yourself to shocklands, the life payments from fetchlands add up quickly). Also being 1 mana less and instant speed are nice bonuses too. Bane of Progress is easier to recur though.
Reap replaced Emeria Shepherd. ES is extremely powerful, but you get what you pay for when it is effectively an 8-drop (7-mana drop and then play your land afterwards). Reap is a 2-mana instant speed graveyard recursion spell that can get instants or sorceries, or lands in a pinch. Basically it was a mana curve consideration. ES is certainly strong and may find its way back into the deck, but for now the mana curve was a problem.
Carpet of Flowers has gotten axed. There are a lot of blue decks, but most of them don't play a lot of islands; many play the scrylands, or the M10/Innistrad duals, etc., so often you are adding, at most, 1-2 mana. That's not terrible but it's not really exciting.
Testing out Faerie Artisans because it sounds so powerful on paper.
3/22/16
+ Carpet of Flowers
+ Noble Hierarch
+ Collective Restraint
+ Mystic Remora
+ Mana crypt
- Khalni Heart Expedition
- Somberwald Sage
- Greenwarden of Murasa
- Tooth and Nail
- Zendikar resurgent
Carpet of flowers is an underrated ramp spell. It's cheap and it gives you a big boost if there's any other blue deck on the table. Khalni Heart Expedition gets cut, as they're both enchantments that ramp, but khalni is slower.
Noble Hierarch replaced Somberwald Sage. There are some noncreature permanents that Sage couldn't ramp out (notably the planeswalkers), but Hierarch has one more interesting boon; the exalted trigger lets Progenitus kill in 2 shots instead of 3. It also makes your equipped dorks early in the game slightly less likely to die in combat. While it doesn't produce B or R, most of the early drops are in bant colors, so it's fine. Mana dorks are embarrassing in the face of sweepers, but the little push they give earlygame is a boon, and because of Hierarch's exalted trigger it's not the worst mana dork you could topdeck lategame.
I also put in Mystic Remora. That card has always surpassed expectations everytime I've played it in my other blue decks. It's a cheap card (both mana and budget) and having it draw just 2-3 cards pays for itself.
Collective Restraint is just being tested as a random goodstuff durdle card. Basically for 1 more mana it's a super Propaganda in a 5-color deck. I'll see how well it works.
Greenwarden is getting axed quickly. It's still a good card, but there's plenty of graveyard recursion in the deck already. While most of them only can hit creatures, eternal witness getting the key nonpermanents is usually enough.
Tooth and Nail getting cut is a tough one, but I have constantly expressed my disdain for 2-card combos, which Tooth and Nail frequently fetches out in competitive decks. If I am not going that route, T&N instead becomes a value card instead of a finisher (a powerful one, but still just a value card). I decided to cut it to lower my curve.
I got a mana crypt for this deck, so I take out a ramp spell. Zendikar resurgent feels like the weakest one. Mana doublers are nice, but at 7-mana that's hard to swallow.
1/25/2016
+ Emeria Shepherd
+ Tragic Arrogance
+ Umezawa's Jitte
+ Zendikar Resurgent
+ Greenwarden of Murasa
+ Bring to light
- Prophet of Kruphix
- Merciless Eviction
- Rune-Scarred Demon
- Mana Reflection
- Sun Titan
- Wargate
RIP Prophet.
Trying out Emeria in its spot just because. On paper it's a crazy graveyard recursion engine.
Switching out Merciless Eviction for Tragic Arrogance to test the latter. The deck has a bunch of creatures but most of them are expendable, and you usually don't have more than 1-2 artifacts/enchantments/planeswalkers in play so you're hardly affected anyway.
Putting in Jitte. It adds more value to Stoneforge and Rafiq, it's early removal, and it's even lifegain which the deck doesn't say no to. Rune-scarred demon is a strong value creature, but it doesn't really serve a major purpose, and with the change to the mulligan rule, it's important to keep curves lower.
Trying out Zendikar resurgent over mana reflection. Reflection does cost 1 less mana and is better with mana dorks and mana rocks (reflection affects those while resurgent is the Mirari's Wake type of effect that only affects lands), but the fact that zendikar resurgent also gives you a bit of gas is important.
Also trying out Greenwarden of Murasa over Sun Titan. Titan is obviously better with permanent cards of CMC 3 or less, and you can get the recursion through attacking (whereas getting the second shot off Greenwarden requires you to exile it). Titan is also better at combat, being a 6/6 vigilance versus a vanilla 5/4. However, Greenwarden is obviously better with everything else, which I think is more useful.
Bring to light is replacing wargate as a tutor. Since bring to light can fetch out demonic tutor, you can technically fetch out anything you want, albeit if it's not a creature/instant/sorcery with CMC 5 or less it'll be less mana efficient than wargate. However, the fact that bring to light can also fetch out an instant or sorcery which wargate couldn't means this card is actually very flexible, especially when paired with said demonic tutor.
5/6/15
+ Council's Judgment
+ Clever Impersonator
+ Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
+ Badlands
+ Scrubland
- Vindicate
- Phyrexian Metamorph
- Cyclonic Rift
- Reflecting Pool
- Blood Crypt
I really like Vindicate. I think it's a cool card. It has a great text line, flavor text, and art. However it has alot of weaknesses. I think Council's Judgment is a good upgrade. It gets around all kinds of protections (indestructible, hexproof, protection, etc), will often get the thing you were trying to aim the vindicate at anyway, and there's a chance it even gets more than 1 permanent. The strong political-element with it is very interesting too. Since it doesn't actually target, you can get around sac outlets and such too, since once everyone gives a name, the most voted permanents get exiled with no chance to respond. And note that your permanents can't be named with Judgment so it will almost never backfire or be worse than Vindicate.
Phyrexian Metamorph is also a great clone card, but I feel like with the current build, Clever Impersonator being able to copy enchantments and planeswalkers is a bigger boon than Metamorph's upside. Metamorph is very strong if there's Tezzeret to fetch it out, but right now the build has problems fitting him.
I've gone in a few other topics about my disdain for Cyclonic Rift. I feel like it's too strong for my playgroup and often I rely on this card too much. I cut it in order to get a better gauge on the power level of other cards in my deck. I decided to try out Ugin as an additional sweeper, cause Ugin is cool, even if he isn't particularly efficient.
I picked up two additional ABU duals. Now there's the question of what lands to remove. I don't want to remove basics because they're a necessary evil, but I don't like getting rid of Reliquary Tower because of shigs and tiggles. I decided that it would be a good time to get rid of some of the ravnica shocklands, starting with Blood Crypt, as the green shocks get fetched with Wood Elves, and the green and white shocks get fetched with Krosan Verge. The second land removed was Reflecting Pool as it's an awkward land to draw early on which is when mana is usually the most sketchiest.
3/6/14
+ Taiga
+ Plateau
+ Cyclonic Rift
+ Exploration
+ Urabrask the Hidden
+ Skyshroud Claim
+ Khalni Heart Expedition
+ Mana Reflection
- Garruk Wildspeaker
- Necropotence
- Deadeye Navigator
- Sylvan Primordial
- Terramorphic Expanse
- Academy Ruins
- Weathered Wayfarer
- Oblivion Stone
I'm still trying to find an identity for the deck. For now the deck will try a more voltron approach; while it's not all-in on Progenitus, there will be a little more focus on letting Progenitus get the kill rather than a control-type deck. This means more ramp and cards that help support Progenitus finish off enemies. Exploration is good but only really with Life from the Loam and Crucible of Worlds; I've tried it before, cut it, but I'm experimenting again. Khalni Heart Expedition is being used instead of something like Explosive Vegetation because it's an earlygame play. Mana Reflection basically says that with it out, I cast anything in my deck, including Progenitus. While my very first iteration of the deck was a balls to the wall ramp deck, that was back when clones could kill off Progenitus. Now because it's only edicts and sweepers (and the standard counterspells), Progenitus is a little safer.
Sylvan Primordial got banhammered.
Necropotence was powerful. So powerful that once it was dropped I became one of the biggest targets on the table. The other problem is that because the deck has no lifegain, along with the fetchlands and shocklands, and combined with drawing additional aggro, the life payments added up. I believe Necropotence is better when you can prevent from getting attacked, either by locking the board or quickly doing an infinite combo. This deck doesn't do either. In "unfair" decks Necro is broken, but in "fair" decks it's just a really good draw engine.
Deadeye Navigator's removal is largely because my Maelstrom Wanderer deck has it, and I want to try and take the deck in a different direction. Right now it feels like my Progenitus is like my Wanderer deck except slower and weaker.
I tried Urabrask earlier, cut it, but I'm trying again. It gives a little bit of protection and can slow down aggro decks for a turn, which often is the difference between surviving and not. It also gives Progenitus haste which is obviously not irrelevant.
I picked up Taiga and Plateau. There's a lot of lands so I cut the Terramorphic Expanse to go to 39 lands. That seems like a lot, so I'm trying out Exploration (something I played in this deck a long time ago). With it in, Weathered Wayfarer interacts with it poorly, so it's out for now. I cut Garruk because walkers are a bit vulnerable.
Cyclonic Rift is another goodstuff card that's pretty insane. I'm also cutting Oblivion Stone because I think I don't need that many sweepers if I'm trying to ramp to Progenitus quickly. Because Stone is out, I think cutting academy Ruins is fine too. Ruins getting back birthing pod is nice but not at the expense of hurting the mana base colors.
1/18/14
+ Prophet of Kruphix
+ Bane of Progress
+ Swords to Plowshares
+ Cavern of Souls
+ Somberwald Sage
+ Rhystic Study
+ Garruk Wildspeaker
+ Thada Adel, Acquisitor
- Fleshbag Marauder
- Fracturing Gust
- Austere Command
- Volrath's Stronghold
- Greater Good
- Mimic Vat
- Urabrask, the hidden
- Conflux
This edition was basically increasing the mana ramp and low-mana cost cards while cutting some of the fat at the top.
Prophet of Kruphix is insane in the right build. While this isn't an optimal build for the card, the deck is still fairly creature-heavy, especially if you have some mana sinks to just take advantage of the extra mana. For example on your turn you play noncreature things, then on other people's turns you flash in your creatures.
Bane of Progress was placed in for Fracturing Gust quickly. It's basically a creature version of the same card. While it's 1 more mana (making most of the sweepers 6 mana) and doesn't gain you life, creatures are easier to recur especially when it's 2 power for Reveilark.
Fleshbag was cut because it's a fine card but with all the sweepers in the deck it should be fine.
Swords to Plowshares replaced Austere Command to have better balance in the deck. It needs more earlygame answers. Austere Command was one of four sweepers in the deck (Merciless Eviction, Oblivion Stone, and Bane of Progress/Fracturing Gust), so there's a lot of mid-lategame stabilization power. The reason why I decided to take out Austere Command is that Oblivion Stone and Bane of Progress both attack in different ways. Stone is an artifact for Academy Ruins, and is 3 mana for Sun Titan. Bane of Progress is a green creature for Green Sun's Zenith, and can be Reveilark'd. Both can be tutored with Wargate. Merciless Eviction normally hits fewer permanent types than Austere Command, but the fact that it exiles gives the deck a different alley to attack.
Somberwald Sage was nice in my Maelstrom Wanderer deck. Here, there are a few more noncreatures, and also it's slightly awkward to Progenitus (since it makes 3 of one color while Progenitus is 2 of each, so that 1 extra goes to waste), but I still expect good things. It also gives another 3-drop creature which the deck lacked (with Fleshbag gone, the only 3-drops were Wood Elves and Eternal Witness).
Rhystic Study is being used in place of mimic vat for a bit. I've put Rhystic Study in my other blue EDH decks and it always overperformed. Mimic Vat, however, doesn't give immediate value, and it needed good creatures to die to make it perform up to its power.
Volrath's Stronghold is cut because the deck has 3 other cards that recur solely creatures (Reveilark, Karmic Guide, Havengul Lich) and it doesn't need that much redundancy. Instead play more cards that can tap for colored mana.
Cavern of Souls is being tested in place of the Stronghold. There's no tribal theme in the deck at all, but it's nice to give the finger to counterspells. In particular, making sure Progenitus can't be countered is nice.
Greater Good on paper was nice to sacrifice Progenitus in response to something that can kill him, or to get things in the graveyard to recur. The thing is that 1) It's better to play something that can help protect Progenitus instead, and/or 2) The deck isn't very fast so often the creatures you have are blocking so you don't die, and they'll find a way into the graveyard anyway.
Urabrask was cut because while its abilities are great on paper, it's hard to take advantage of the mass haste in this deck. The only creature who you really care about having haste is Progenitus, but because of Progenitus' mana cost, it's hard to get both urabrask and Progenitus into play on the same turn, so your opponents know what will happen anyway.
Thada Adel is being tested here because it's just a pretty funny card. Also the islandwalk is nice with the swords equipped because often there are blockers for the equipped creature. And repeatable "tutors" can never be bad. And it's another early drop.
Conflux got cut because with Urabrask out, the only actual red card that it can fetch right now is Nicol Bolas. I think Conflux is a badass card but it's just not good enough.
10/12/13
+ Vindicate
+ Fracturing Gust
+ Ashen Rider
- Necrotic Sliver
- Time Stretch
- Angel of Despair
Vindicate is going back in place of Necrotic Sliver. 6 mana to play the sliver and crack it is too much to just kill one thing, and the fact that you can recur it isn't a big deal because it's usually not a very strong target in the first place. Necrotic also gets shut off by humility and the like, while Vindicate gives a more diverse answer suite for the deck.
The removal of time stretch is the biggest issue here. It's an extremely powerful card, albeit has some weaknesses. The problem was that, as I played the deck more, it relied more and more on chaining time stretches together in order to snag the win (usually chain a couple time stretches together before playing Progenitus). I've had some complaints about how it's not quite fun to play against, but more importantly it wasn't quite fun for me to play as when the deck wins with largely the same method. While I suppose that's the nature when the main win con is a 10 mana unhasted creature - play a slow deck full with answers and a very small suite of actual wincons - but I'd like to experiment with the deck more and see what other win cons there are. This change is entirely personal and not because of lack of power.
Fracturing Gust is just being tested for now in place of Time Stretch. Sweepers are always welcomed in slow decks. And this deck has some life issues; among the fetches, shocks, and necro, it's actually easy to lose a ton of life without anyone even attacking you. This is very playable lifegain.
Ashen Rider replaces Angel of Despair, as the former is almost strictly better than the latter. It does cost 1 more mana, but it exiles instead of destroys, and you get an extra trigger off its death. It's also a reason to get an 8-drop which the deck lacks, while trimming a 7-drop which the deck has a lot of, in order to work with a Birthing Pod curve. While Angel of Despair is still a very strong card, right now I don't think I'll need both.
8/6/13
+ Green Sun's Zenith
+ Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
+ Necrotic Sliver
+ Merciless Eviction
+ Fist of Suns
+ Weathered Wayfarer
+ Coalition Relic
+ Wargate
+ Krosan Verge
- Vindicate
- Skullclamp
- Trinket Mage
- Serra Ascendent
- Diluvian Primordial
- Sepulchral Primordial
- Luminate Primordial
- Fierce Empath
- Evolving Wilds
GSZ used to be amazing when Primeval Titan was legal. With its banning it got weaker, but you still have some strong targets since a bunch of other strong green creatures got printed. 3 mana gets you a Fauna Shaman, 5 gets you Oracle, 7 gets you Zegana and Progenitor Mimic, and 8 gets you Sylvan Primordial.
Elesh Norn is a risky addition, not because it's bad, but because she's vulnerable to gilded drake. But she's so powerful at what she does it's hard to not at least test her. Also, she lets Progenitus kill in 2 shots.
Merciless Eviction is getting a shot. With it, the deck has 3 sweepers, which coupled with the tutors should be fine.
Fist of Suns was a card I used to run, then I cut. I'll try it again. Getting a 5 mana reduction on Progenitus is sweet, but you also get reductions on Time Stretch and whatnot. And sometimes, paying WUBRG is easier than paying BBB for necropotence.
Coalition Relic was another card I used to run, then I cut, then I'm trying again.
Weathered Wayfarer is being tested. Currently the deck only has 4 cards that land ramp (every other ramp card is a different permanent type). Consider that Wayfarer's ability can be activated after cracking a fetchland but before finding that land to also help dip your land count. It sounds credible in theory.
Wargate is being tested. It's mana-intensive, but it's a tutor, so it's automatically worth consideration. Paying 6 to get necropotence or paying 7 to get birthing pod both sound like decent plays.
I've always been meaning to add Krosan verge to the deck, and it took me awhile to remember that I wanted to at least try it. So Evolving Wilds gets kicked out for it.
I decided to try Necrotic Sliver over Vindicate. The Sliver requires more mana, but it's easier to recur creatures than sorceries in this deck. The deck needs at least one spot removal to keep opponents honest.
Skullclamp got cut because there actually aren't that many 1 toughness creatures in the deck. It's a powerful draw engine, but the deck's current build can't abuse it to its fullest.
With Skullclamp gone, cutting Trinket Mage was only natural. Its only strong tutor is Top, even though fetching sol ring isn't terrible.
Serra Ascendent already hit the cutting board. The deck right now could use ramp more than a value beater.
The blue/black/white primordials also already hit the cutting board. Right now the deck is extremely top-heavy on mana curve, and with the nerf to clones, racing to Progenitus is a better strategy than before. The white primordial was usually worse than a sweeper, the blue primordial had some consistency issues (usually due to graveyard hate), and the black had some consistency issues (again usually due to graveyard hate) but also overlaps with what Havengul Lich has to offer.
Fierce Empath is getting cut. 3-mana tutors are always playable, but the bar in 5-color deck is high. I'm testing Wargate mostly to replace this, as they both have a 3 mana investment (Wargate's GWU cost, Fierce Empath's actual cost) but Wargate can fetch other stuff. While Empath is easier to recur, Empath is not exactly something I want to recur in the first place.
7/15/13
+ Austere Command
+ Aura Shards
+ Sylvan Primordial
+ Diluvian Primordial
+ Rune-Scarred Demon
+ Glen Elendra Archmage
+ Progenitor Mimic
+ Serra Ascendent
- Genesis Wave
- Withered Wretch
- Terastodon
- Jin gitaxias, Core Augur
- Dryad Arbor
- Jace, the Mind Sculptor
- Magus of the Disk
- Puppeteer Clique
Austere Command is going back in. Despite it being difficult to tutor for and recur from the graveyard, sweepers are necessary in this deck.
I knew Aura Shards was a powerful card, but seeing it in action convinced me that it can really take command of games. Many players use artifacts or enchantments as engines, and this demands an answer or they will get choked out of the game.
The green and blue primordials were amazing in my Maelstrom Wanderer deck, and I decided to make room for them.
Rune-Scarred Demon was added for a tutor on a creature. This is important when you can either pod into it, or get Fierce Empath out to tutor for it.
Progenitor Mimic is being tested. On paper it will dominate a game, and getting this back with Reveilark sounds sweet.
Serra Ascendent is also being tested. If it's out early it's a huge tempo swing, but it's weak lategame because the deck currently has no other lifegain to keep the life total above 30.
Genesis Wave felt like the most unreliable bomb. Tooth and Nail could do less, but a Wave could whiff pretty hard. The deck doesn't ramp hard now, so the Waves feel pretty small.
Withered Wretch is going out, as with Scavenging Ooze and Puppeteer Clique as graveyard hate, a third source felt unnecessary.
Terastodon is great removal, but the fact that it gives opponents beasts can actually be a problem because this deck usually dips low in life (shocklands, fetchlands, necro). Sylvan Primordial does basically the same thing except you get forests for your problems.
Jin Gitaxias was a hilarious creature, but there were many times where I could not fit him onto the board. It's easy to fall behind on the board and not cards in this deck.
Dryad Arbor was cut to make room for the cards I wanted. 38 lands might be okay because there's Life from the Loam and Crucible, but be careful about mulligans.
Jace was cut because I moved it to my Maelstrom Wanderer deck.
Magus of the Disk was cut because it's a tad too slow.
Puppeteer Clique was cut despite it being strong because Sepulchral Primordial does about the same thing except overall better. With that and Havengul Lich, I don't need more cards to steal creatures from other graveyards.
2/6/13
+ Chromatic Lantern
+ Prime Speaker Zagana
+ Magus of the Disk
+ Sepulchral Primordial
+ Luminate Primordial
+ Evolving Wilds
- Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
- Prismatic Omen
- Ancient Tomb
- Vendilion Clique
- Sheoldred, Whispering One
- False Prophet
Rofellos + Prismatic Omen would ramp very hard, and even Rofellos on his own produced a lot of mana. Ancient Tomb filled a similar role, being a sol ring land. But after more testing, ramping this hard made you a big target in a multiplayer free-for-all. In addition, Rofellos was sometimes difficult to play on turn 2, and he doesn't color fix. Prismatic Omen was fairly weak unless Rofellos was also in play. Ancient Tomb also gave color problems early on where I would usually prefer to have something that could produce color over it, and lategame it would be a Temple of the False God that damaged me.
Chromatic Lantern was decided to replace Prismatic Omen because it would give the color fixing needed, but could also make mana on its own. Without Rofellos, there's no real reason not to run the Lantern over Omen.
Evolving Wilds was put in over Ancient Tomb because of its color fixing, and being a 12th fetch for crucible/life from the loam.
I am very excited about how the simic guild leader will do in testing. It barely does anything on its own, but any sort of creature in play (even if it's only a 2 power creature) and you can get decent value out of it. I also like the fact that you can Reveilark this.
Sheoldred was cool, but it took too long to get online, and with the recently spoiled Sepulchral Primordial, I felt like this black one does much better at the role I want it to.
The white primordial was also put in, largely because I'm planning on putting the RUG ones in my Maelstrom Wanderer deck, and I might as well try to test all 5 amongst my two major decks.
False Prophet was unreliable in being a sweeper because the deck doesn't have enough sac outlets. I decided to try Magus of the Disk in its place.
12/29/12
+ False Prophet
+ Scavenging Ooze
- Austere Command
- Deathrite Shaman
False Prophet is being tested over Austere Command. The latter performed fine, but False Prophet can be recurred a little more often as there's some creature recursion in this deck; not so much sorcery recursion for Austere Command.
Scavenging Ooze replaced Deathrite Shaman as another source of graveyard hate. Being able to exile more than once per turn is huge, and while Deathrite Shaman also did some other cute things, ultimately the focused graveyard hate is more important.
12/18/12
+ Oblivion Stone
+ Sylvan Library
+ Academy Ruins
- Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
- Yavimaya elder
- Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
Oblivion Stone gave another sweeper which I find the deck needs, because there aren't too many ways to recur Austere Command, but Oblivion Stone is a little easier to do so.
I was trying out Sylvan Library in my Maelstrom Wanderer deck, and I'm pretty impressed with it. I wanted to add it here too.
Similar with Academy Ruins, with the addition of Oblivion Stone it's worth it to get a land to recur artifacts when that list includes crucible of worlds, oblivion stone, birthing pod, both swords, and skullclamp.
Vorinclex is badass, but he doesn't really win the game instantly and has no real immediate effect on the board. What usually happens is that someone spends some mana to spot removal him (or spend a lot to board sweep) and that's that.
Yavimaya Elder has always been good, but never stellar. I think it's time to try something else.
Mikokoro felt like the weakest land, and got cut for Academy Ruins.
11/24/12
+ Vendilion Clique
+ Austere Command
- Phyrexian Arena
- Knight of the Reliquary
Vendilion Clique gives you some interaction with combo decks.
Austere Command gives a sweeper.
Phyrexian Arena was good card draw, but hopefully there will be enough to get rid of this one, as it felt the weakest of the engines.
Knight of the Reliquary never felt very strong in this deck. Since the mana base has to be dedicated to fix colors, there aren't many utility lands to get. This is better suited for 3 or 4 colors, where you can run more utility lands without color screwing yourself.
Added more noticeable weaknesses to the deck.
Added a small part in strategy about mulligans.
11/15/12
Version 1.0
SET REVIEWS
Gatecrash
Dragon's Maze
Theros
Magic Origins
Battle for Zendikar
Commander 2015
Oath of the Gatewatch
Shadows over Innistrad
Eldritch Moon
Conspiracy Take the Crown
Kaladesh
Commander 2016
Aether Revolt
Amonkhet
Hour of Devastation
Commander 2017
Ixalan
Rivals of Ixalan
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
updated OP as a first draft of a primer, I would greatly appreciate on how to format the OP as well as card choices, etc.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
+ Vendilion Clique
+ Austere Command
- Phyrexian Arena
- Knight of the Reliquary
Added more noticeable weaknesses to the deck.
Added a small part in strategy about mulligans.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
+ Sylvan Library
+ Academy Ruins
- Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
- Yavimaya elder
- Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
- All of the primordials are in consideration. The green one currently hasn't been spoiled, but the white, blue, and black all have potential (I'm not a fan of the red one). As they are all 7 mana, I can't run all of them really.
- Prime Speaker Zegana looks sick. It gets horribly shut down by instant speed removal, but it's so easy to draw a ton of cards with it. The fact that its base power is 1 means you can Reveillark it (lolwut).
- Merciless Eviction has potential, but it has strict competition with many other 6 mana sweepers, notably Austere Command and Akroma's Vengeance. It doesn't hit as much, but the fact that it exiles makes it worth consideration.
- Aurelia's Fury and Clan Defiance are both strong, although they aren't permanents for genesis wave and they don't quite fit the theme of the deck.
- And obviously, enter the infinite + omniscience is worth consideration in any blue deck. If I can get academy rector and a sac outlet...
on a side note, i'm wondering what to do with Rofellos. He ramps like crazy, but the double green can be a problem to get early, he doesn't ramp that hard without prismatic omen, and he doesn't color fix. He also makes me a big target in free for alls, but in a team game he won't die as often and getting an early tooth and nail or genesis wave is almost auto win.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
Anyway, the green primordial exceeded my expectations and looks sick. I might consider it over terastodon, but all of them sans the red one I want to find room for.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
+ Chromatic Lantern
+ Prime Speaker Zagana
+ Magus of the Disk
+ Sepulchral Primordial
+ Luminate Primordial
+ Evolving Wilds
- Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
- Prismatic Omen
- Ancient Tomb
- Vendilion Clique
- Sheoldred, Whispering One
- False Prophet
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
If you can cast this on turn 2, you put sylvan primodial in to play blowing up 3 lands of other players and getting insanely ahead (6 mana turn 3). Also it seems like you have other creatures that are powerful enough with enter the battlefield effects to justify the inclusion.
I think the only other primordials worth using are the blue and black one.
Outdated Mafia Stats
As for the primordials, the white one sounds fine. Duplicant is a nice card, and for 1 more mana you get to duplicant everyone, and the life gain is minimal. I'm trying out all 5 primordials, but the RUG ones are in my maelstrom wanderer deck so this one picked up the white and black. The U and G ones will almost certainly make it into the deck some time though but I need to decide what to cut.
The red one does sound underwhelming but it should do fine in the right decks. Almost certainly won't go in here though.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
Notion thief is hilarious, but with all the consecrated sphinxes out there it's a very dangerous card to run. The deck would need to be built a little around thief in that the deck needs sac outlets or instant removal so that the thief or sphinx can get off the table immediately. Hate cards is also a good way for people to gang up on me.
Obzedat's aid is powerful but the deck would need more instant/sorcery recursion to get this back, as well as more noncreature permanents worth reanimating (because reanimating creatures can be done far more efficiently with other cards). This feels like a build around card rather than a value card.
Plasm capture is sweet, although UUGG will be hard to reliably cast. This deck is also currently not built as a draw-go either to do something with the 4 mana if you don't counter anything for the turn.
Progenitor Mimic is cool, but with phantasmal image and phyrexian metamorph already in, I'm not sure if I want a third clone.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
+ Austere Command
+ Aura Shards
+ Sylvan Primordial
+ Diluvian Primordial
+ Rune-Scarred Demon
+ Glen Elendra Archmage
+ Progenitor Mimic
+ Serra Ascendent
- Genesis Wave
- Withered Wretch
- Terastodon
- Jin gitaxias, Core Augur
- Dryad Arbor
- Jace, the Mind Sculptor
- Magus of the Disk
- Puppeteer Clique
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
I would consider cutting sepulchral primordial, diluvian primordial,, conflux, luminate primordial, havenghul lich, and urabrask, the hidden.
In their place I would add:
Green suns zenith, domri rade, garruk, caller of the beasts , burgeoning, Bant charm, and merciless eviction.
Any reasons?
mind sculptor went to my wanderer deck because library manipulation is way better in wanderer than in this deck, and I didn't replace it because of budget reasons (i only had 1).
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
1x Academy Rector
1x Angel of Despair
1x Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Bloom Tender
1x Bringer of the Black Dawn
1x Bringer of the Blue Dawn
1x Eternal Witness
1x Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1x Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Maelstrom Archangel
1x Maelstrom Wanderer
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Somberwald Sage
1x Sun Titan
1x Urabrask the Hidden
1x Yavimaya Elder
Sorcery (12)
1x All Is Dust
1x Boundless Realms
1x Conflux
1x Explosive Vegetation
1x Farseek
1x Final Judgment
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Promise of Power
1x Shard Convergence
1x Terminus
1x Wargate
1x Wrath of God
1x Armillary Sphere
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Doubling Cube
1x Fist of Suns
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Legacy Weapon
1x Sol Ring
Land (34)
1x Ancient Ziggurat
1x Azorius Guildgate
1x Cavern of Souls
11x Forest
1x Golgari Guildgate
5x Island
1x Izzet Guildgate
3x Mountain
4x Plains
1x Rakdos Guildgate
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Selesnya Guildgate
3x Swamp
Enchantment (12)
1x Asceticism
1x Collective Restraint
1x Defense of the Heart
1x Exploration
1x Fervor
1x Finest Hour
1x Leyline of the Void
1x Maelstrom Nexus
1x Mirari's Wake
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Prismatic Omen
1x Rhystic Study
1x Counterspell
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Return to Dust
1x Savage Beating
1x Stroke of Genius
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Worldly Tutor
Planeswalker (3)
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Karn Liberated
1x Venser, the Sojourner
I also tried to avoid any overly expensive cards unless I already own them. So it's like a budget Progenitus deck...thats still kinda expensive..
BWGhost Council of OrzhovaBW
RUGRikuStormRUG
I'll be quick. The primordials are ok but you have some of the best creatures in magic in your deck to chose in their place already in your deck. How often is a diluvian amazing? How consistent is rune scarred demon...see the difference. If your opponents are actually playing time stretch and stuff play memory plunder and knowledge exploitation. You quickly meta them not to.
Anyway the same can be said for all the big cards I said to cut. GSz is retarded with your build. Domri rade is quickly proving he is the other best 3 drop planeswalker.
You should also look at the consistent versatility of some cards versus the power of others. Ie. Bant charm, merciless eviction, austere command, jace the mind sculptor, (who is the best planeswalker for a reason)! Etc
Oh btw you should cut a few more cards to make room for or at least try out caller of the beasts ( with your deck he is the nuts), shard convergence, ranger of eos, noble hierarch, and sphinx's revelation.
Burgeoning in five colour is just a no brainer try it out. You will see, especially with crucible and fetches.
Last thing I want to say is every card in this build should be both stand alone good and nuts with some other cards or tutor able etc. this deck build is amazing and with a few tweaks I believe one of the best I have seen for both multi and non French 1v1
how do you make only 34 lands work? I know you have a bunch of cards that put lands into your hand, but I have 38 lands and I found that I always need more lands if I don't have crucible/life from the loam. You also are extremely short on duals so it seems you would get color-screwed a lot too.
Anyway, my original progenitus build was similar to yours in that it focused a lot more on ramp, but everytime I ramped to progenitus it ate the first clone/sacrifice/sweeper. Granted, m14 rules protects progenitus from clones (really huge) and sigarda protects from sacrifice (she wasn't printed when I first constructed the deck), so maybe it'll work now, idk
I've personally been happy with the blue/black/white primordials. They're not the best cards to ramp into, but they're pretty consistent as long as they're played mid-lategame.
Seems like the 3 primordials' use is based on how often you play 1v1 vs multiplayer. They get exponentially better with more opponents around. I usually don't play this deck in 1v1 because I have necropotence in the deck. The deck is pretty top-heavy in mana though so I maybe should cut them.
It is something I had in the deck as basically a 2nd primeval titan. I have been thinking about putting it back though, with zegana/sylvan primordial/progenitor mimic around.
I've actually always found planeswalkers to be tricky in EDH. They're usually the first things on the table that get attacked or destroyed, and without doubling season it's almost impossible to ever ultimate them unless they can go off quickly. What does Domri do that other cards can't? He's not a reliable draw engine, so you're recommending I play him for his fight ability/ultimate?
Bant charm is interesting, but it's still a 3 mana 1-for-1 in EDH and is difficult to recur.
I have austere and oblivion stone as my 2 sweepers, I'm not sure how many more I need. Sweepers in EDH are almost never dead though and merciless eviction in particular has caught my attention ever since it was printed.
I cut jace for reasons I stated earlier; I only have 1 and he is a better fit in my maelstrom wanderer deck.
Garruk is cool but mid-30s creatures is a bit unreliable for his +1.
Shard convergence is a 4 mana draw 4 land cards. I'm not sure if I want that.
Ranger of Eos needs more targets, but he is really good if there are enough.
Noble Hierarch seems expensive for a mana dork. The exalted with progenitus out is funny though.
Sphinx's rev seems like it does what conflux does.
I would rather run exploration over burgeoning, and I found exploration to be fairly weak without crucible/loam around.
Thank you!
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
It's better for me in slivers since queen is her own combo engine, especially with mass polymorph, but just my .02
I also should put in a word for burgeoning. Absolutely insane turn 1 play to put you ahead
in any case, after taking another quick look over the deck, it really does need more early plays than lategame bombs. Again, with the nerf to clones, and sigarda for sacrifice protection, ramping to progenitus is safer than when I first made the deck. I'll be putting up an update later.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
+ Green Sun's Zenith
+ Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
+ Necrotic Sliver
+ Merciless Eviction
+ Fist of Suns
+ Weathered Wayfarer
+ Coalition Relic
+ Wargate
+ Krosan Verge
- Vindicate
- Skullclamp
- Trinket Mage
- Serra Ascendent
- Diluvian Primordial
- Sepulchral Primordial
- Luminate Primordial
- Fierce Empath
- Evolving Wilds
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/112/310/635201278520391197.jpg
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
Interesting list. I wonder how it would match up against my Epic EDH. I doubt we'll ever meet though.
I prefer to run more sweepers. Only having 3 seems really risky. However, your strategy is less defensive than I run for both my 5c lists. I'm also a card-carrying Johnny, so I suppose I'm more used to defensive spells.
The list looks pretty tight, but I think Mangara of Corondor might have a place in the list. Broken with Deadeye / untap effects and a haste enabler. But I can see why you would like Necrotic Sliver.
I've been told by some that they dislike Oracle of Mul Daya for giving opponents too much information. I like it, but I see the point, how do you stand on that matter?
Would Chord of Calling fit into your deck? Perhaps Dryad Arbor? I also noticed a lack of Strip Mine and Wasteland.
Oh, and Rings of Brighthearth would be oh-so-tasty with your Pod, fetches, and Planeswalkers, among other things.
Karona, Warden of AlcatrazWUBRG
The EPIC EDHWUBRG
Sun Quan Aggro1U
Animar GoodstuffRUG
Horobi MBCB
Medomai NerfWU
Saffi EriksdotterGW
Zur (CF)WUB
-Elliot Carver, Tomorrow Never Dies
"If violence isn't solving it, you're obviously not using enough!"
-Me
A kid at my local gameshop wanted to break a twenty.
"You got 2 tens?" he asked me.
"No, but I probably got 3 fives." I replied.
"Perfect!"
"You might want to check your math there."
It's 3 sweepers only, but it's got a couple tutors.
I'm cutting the necrotic sliver, it's kinda slow. Will probably put vindicate back in. Mangara would need more support.
oracle is insane. getting mana out is more important than giving information.
Chord of calling maybe, dryad arbor I tested earlier, but the deck has pretty strict mana requirements. If I want to play arbor I'd have to probably cut a nonland for it.
rings of brighthearth is something that I want to test but I haven't decided what to cut for it.
POWER LEVEL
Cards that I did not want to run because of power level, money, being mean, and so on. Feel free to run them if your playgroup allows them, or if your wallet can afford them.
Strip Mine/Wasteland/etc. - Very dirty combination with crucible and life from the loam. Be wary of your mana base though; you don't want to get color screwed.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)