This next poll is going to be a bit more free form than normal, a lot of people in previous threads had concerns and suggestions about this card, so we're going to take some time to refine the mechanics before adding in the finishing touches (art, name, etc.)
If you think we should change part of the mechanics of this card, post them below. (Should tap for a different color, should be buffed/nerfed, wording fixes, etc.)
ATTACHMENTS
YMTC 21 v1
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
:symtap:: Add to your mana pool. Enemy color pairs don't exist in Zendikar.
Landfall — Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may have [CARD] become a copy of target creature card in your graveyard with power 2 or less until end of turn. Changed from converted mana cost to power, for two reasons. First reason: "Power" takes up less space than "Converted Mana Cost". Second reason: To prevent abuse with cards like Phyrexian Dreadnought.
Why don't enemy colors pairs exist on Zendikar? Seems like a pretty random restriction, I would assume that enemy color pairs exist on every plane regardless of if they appear on cards or not...
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"In the beginning, MTG Salvation switched to a new forum format.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
1) Add "...until end of turn." to the end of the landfall business. I don't think we should vote on this. It's just an obvious mistake.
2) As for CMC or power - I don't think making it refer to power makes things unbreakable. I'm sure there are cards with 2 power out there that will break a game fairly quickly. Off the top of my head Magus of the Disk would be very annoying with this. Hence my next suggestion:
3) We could maybe exile the copied card after copying it so this won't be as easily breakable as it is now. At least not repeatably breakable.
4) Colors are fine for me. Maybe we should have a vote on the colors it taps for? Options I see as reasonable: WB/B/W/BU/BG
I still like WB the best though...
:sympu::nod::sym2g::p:symgu:;):symu::cthulhu::symg::cool2::symug::grin3::sym2u::rolleyes::sympg: The Simic: we have glow-in-the-dark milk and self replicating cookies.
Which is why I think that, as a dual land, it would be stepping on the toes of already existing cards or implying something that just isn't the case. The only remedy is to have it produce 1.
To avoid abusability (which I'm not against) make it legendary and/or exile the creature card.
~ enters the battlefield tapped. T:Add W or B to your mana pool. Landfall — WB,T:Return target creature card with power 2 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield. It gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step. Activate this ability only if a land entered the battlefield under your control this turn.
Too wordy, but certainly a direction this can head.
I think the card is fine, other than making the ability optional. CMC 2 or less is perfect. And yes, there is good ol' Dreaddy, but that would be a legacy thing. You have to get one in your graveyard and hope they don't have a kill spell/LD spell.
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- Make it produce only one color.
- Exile the creature card from the graveyard.
- Make the ability cost mana (or some other cost like life).
- Add a "until end of turn" clause to the ability.
- Change the restriction of the creature (CMC, power, type).
- Make it legendary (and have it ETB untapped)
I think a combination of make it only black mana, exile the card and make it "until end of turn" produces a good effect.
I like it entirely as is except it should exile the creature.
"Landfall - You may have ~ become a copy of target creature in your graveyard with converted mana cost 2 or less until end of turn. Exile that creature."
I prefer keeping the land as the creature because it also makes it risky. Allowing you to get the creature and then sac it allows you to do shady things like Sakura Tribe Elder for another land (or probably much worse options). Making the land become the creature makes it a little more risky. Plus having the creature comes back makes it much stronger because you would get enter the battlefield triggers/leave the battlefield triggers. Using this on Snapcaster is useless as printed, using it on Snapcaster when the Mage enters the battlefield is crazy good.
I think that the CMC is a better option than power though. CMC is generally more limiting, because there are some really good expensive creatures with low power (Doran the Siege Tower could be interesting, as an example). Plus most of the really abusive low CMC creatures are only that way because of enter the battlefield triggers (Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster).
I like it entirely as is except it should exile the creature.
"Landfall - You may have ~ become a copy of target creature in your graveyard with converted mana cost 2 or less until end of turn. Exile that creature."
This also seems really flavorful to me. Like some kind of tomb or grave that's imbued with necromancy and takes on the shape of its occupant.
Would restricting it to nonartifact creature cmc 2 or less be too weird?
It's powerful enough already. It should not tap for two colors, hell, it'd be fine tapping for colorless or nothing. I say just taps for black or white, not both.
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IIW for any CCC (pick the highest one in the list):
A high-costed equipment (I want it big, but make sure it isn't nutso-broken with Stoneforge. So a high equip cost or a benefit for casting or something)
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
Reiterating a few things:
- The landfall ability should say "until end of turn", and "you may". Otherwise, you can have a 0/0 creature in your graveyard and your land dies right away.
- A dual land with an extra abillity? I think that's too much, it should probably give black or colorless mana.
Also:
- Should the landfall ability say "whenever an another land ..."? With the current text, the land can turn into a creature the turn it comes into play.
- I really think that this card is a way too complicated. It will lead into very very complicated game states since you can change it into any creature in your graveyard. But that's my personal opinion. If it was up to me, I would make the card
Boneyard Swamp
Land
Comes into play tapped. T: Add B to your mana pool. Landfall - Whenever an another land enters the battlefield under your control, you may have Boneyard Swamp become an X/X black Horror creature until end of turn, where X is the number of creature cards in your graveyard.
Yes this could be awesome with Dredge, but so is the current card.
I agree this was probably just an oversight, but having it become a permanent copy could be pretty interesting.
"...power 2 or less" vs. "...converted mana cost 2 or less"
One is more abusable than the other, it's all up to wether or not we want it to be abusable.
Colors
People say 2 colors is too much, but is it really that much stronger than the Dual Man-Lands, which can be activated on demand and require no other cards to set up?
Exiling the Creature
could prevent abuse, if that's something we want to do
It was at that moment that I realized: I'm kinda just making these things up. We can just write the rules the way we want them to work. People will have fun, and people will get it.
I would want to introduce a color restriction to the transform, maybe while not limiting it to your graveyard. Makes it easier to expand this into a cycle.
Guys this is my first post on this kind of thing, but you are missing something very serious and very obvious!
The effect of the card is WB or UB, I'm happy with either, if it were just copying I'd say UB but I think exiling the creature is the best bet and so would be more WB
Anyway more importantly, at the moment this WB effect you have is currently available to EVERY deck for the format this card is legal in. Because at the moment you have no requirement for the ability except landfall, and every deck has lands (well, let's not go there lol)
What I'm saying is this card is currently useful for GW weenie decks and RDW as well possibly, simply because it's just a really efficient land that taps for colourless which isn't much of a draw back.
The ability needs a WB or W/B activation cost otherwise you are making an awesome colourless land that happens to be better in W or B decks.
If you don't want a mana ability attached to a landfall trigger (fair enough) make it a plainsfall or swampfall trigger.
I hear and can respect that argument, and motion that we make it cost BW to activate in addition to the landfall. I further motion that it exiles the creature from the graveyard.
Maybe it somehow helps them "pass" to the other realm? Might be an interesting concept, but not really sure how it fits onto Zendikar.
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This next poll is going to be a bit more free form than normal, a lot of people in previous threads had concerns and suggestions about this card, so we're going to take some time to refine the mechanics before adding in the finishing touches (art, name, etc.)
If you think we should change part of the mechanics of this card, post them below. (Should tap for a different color, should be buffed/nerfed, wording fixes, etc.)
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
[Clan Flamingo] Tier Archivist
[15:21] <@CC> Remember, if you argue, you are an idiot.
Untrophied Wins:
Perfect MCC Scores: 2
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:symtap:: Add to your mana pool.Enemy color pairs don't exist in Zendikar.
Landfall — Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may have [CARD] become a copy of target creature card in your graveyard with power 2 or less until end of turn.
Changed from converted mana cost to power, for two reasons. First reason: "Power" takes up less space than "Converted Mana Cost". Second reason: To prevent abuse with cards like Phyrexian Dreadnought.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Scalding Tarn and its ilk don't exist?
2) As for CMC or power - I don't think making it refer to power makes things unbreakable. I'm sure there are cards with 2 power out there that will break a game fairly quickly. Off the top of my head Magus of the Disk would be very annoying with this. Hence my next suggestion:
3) We could maybe exile the copied card after copying it so this won't be as easily breakable as it is now. At least not repeatably breakable.
4) Colors are fine for me. Maybe we should have a vote on the colors it taps for? Options I see as reasonable: WB/B/W/BU/BG
I still like WB the best though...
The Simic: we have glow-in-the-dark milk and self replicating cookies.
Erm...forgot about those. Nevermind!
They do indeed.
Which is why I think that, as a dual land, it would be stepping on the toes of already existing cards or implying something that just isn't the case. The only remedy is to have it produce 1.
To avoid abusability (which I'm not against) make it legendary and/or exile the creature card.
T:Add W or B to your mana pool.
Landfall — WB,T:Return target creature card with power 2 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield. It gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of the next end step. Activate this ability only if a land entered the battlefield under your control this turn.
Too wordy, but certainly a direction this can head.
[Clan Flamingo] Tier Archivist
[15:21] <@CC> Remember, if you argue, you are an idiot.
Untrophied Wins:
Perfect MCC Scores: 2
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[Clan Flamingo] Tier Archivist
[15:21] <@CC> Remember, if you argue, you are an idiot.
Untrophied Wins:
Perfect MCC Scores: 2
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- Make it produce only one color.
- Exile the creature card from the graveyard.
- Make the ability cost mana (or some other cost like life).
- Add a "until end of turn" clause to the ability.
- Change the restriction of the creature (CMC, power, type).
- Make it legendary (and have it ETB untapped)
I think a combination of make it only black mana, exile the card and make it "until end of turn" produces a good effect.
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"Landfall - You may have ~ become a copy of target creature in your graveyard with converted mana cost 2 or less until end of turn. Exile that creature."
I prefer keeping the land as the creature because it also makes it risky. Allowing you to get the creature and then sac it allows you to do shady things like Sakura Tribe Elder for another land (or probably much worse options). Making the land become the creature makes it a little more risky. Plus having the creature comes back makes it much stronger because you would get enter the battlefield triggers/leave the battlefield triggers. Using this on Snapcaster is useless as printed, using it on Snapcaster when the Mage enters the battlefield is crazy good.
I think that the CMC is a better option than power though. CMC is generally more limiting, because there are some really good expensive creatures with low power (Doran the Siege Tower could be interesting, as an example). Plus most of the really abusive low CMC creatures are only that way because of enter the battlefield triggers (Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster).
This also seems really flavorful to me. Like some kind of tomb or grave that's imbued with necromancy and takes on the shape of its occupant.
Would restricting it to nonartifact creature cmc 2 or less be too weird?
Junk Tokens WBG
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
- The landfall ability should say "until end of turn", and "you may". Otherwise, you can have a 0/0 creature in your graveyard and your land dies right away.
- A dual land with an extra abillity? I think that's too much, it should probably give black or colorless mana.
Also:
- Should the landfall ability say "whenever an another land ..."? With the current text, the land can turn into a creature the turn it comes into play.
- I really think that this card is a way too complicated. It will lead into very very complicated game states since you can change it into any creature in your graveyard. But that's my personal opinion. If it was up to me, I would make the card
Boneyard Swamp
Land
Comes into play tapped.
T: Add B to your mana pool.
Landfall - Whenever an another land enters the battlefield under your control, you may have Boneyard Swamp become an X/X black Horror creature until end of turn, where X is the number of creature cards in your graveyard.
Yes this could be awesome with Dredge, but so is the current card.
"...until end of turn" vs. Not
I agree this was probably just an oversight, but having it become a permanent copy could be pretty interesting.
"...power 2 or less" vs. "...converted mana cost 2 or less"
One is more abusable than the other, it's all up to wether or not we want it to be abusable.
Colors
People say 2 colors is too much, but is it really that much stronger than the Dual Man-Lands, which can be activated on demand and require no other cards to set up?
Exiling the Creature
could prevent abuse, if that's something we want to do
EDIT:
This is really a matter of perspective. Populate copies things, but it's definitely green and white.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Comic Book Set
Archester: Frontier of Steam (A steampunk set!)
A Good Place to Start Designing
Sounds like a good list.
[Clan Flamingo] Tier Archivist
[15:21] <@CC> Remember, if you argue, you are an idiot.
Untrophied Wins:
Perfect MCC Scores: 2
---------------------------------------------------------------
The effect of the card is WB or UB, I'm happy with either, if it were just copying I'd say UB but I think exiling the creature is the best bet and so would be more WB
Anyway more importantly, at the moment this WB effect you have is currently available to EVERY deck for the format this card is legal in. Because at the moment you have no requirement for the ability except landfall, and every deck has lands (well, let's not go there lol)
What I'm saying is this card is currently useful for GW weenie decks and RDW as well possibly, simply because it's just a really efficient land that taps for colourless which isn't much of a draw back.
The ability needs a WB or W/B activation cost otherwise you are making an awesome colourless land that happens to be better in W or B decks.
If you don't want a mana ability attached to a landfall trigger (fair enough) make it a plainsfall or swampfall trigger.
My two pennies.
Modern:
WBG
Legacy:
WBG
Phyrexian Metamorph is available to every deck, but yeah, the card is broken and begging to be abused.
I still think, at the very least, that it should only tap for 1 and don't understand how anyone could think it's okay as a dual land.
Phyrexian Metamorph is available to every deck because that was the point and flavour of phyrexian mana/artifacts.
The fact that the guys here made the land WB suggests to me that they want it to respect the colour-pie and only be available to certain decks.
So they should either give it some kind of restrictive activation cost or go the other way and make it colourless and available to every deck.
Modern:
WBG
Legacy:
WBG
Maybe it somehow helps them "pass" to the other realm? Might be an interesting concept, but not really sure how it fits onto Zendikar.