[GTC] – Name and Number Crunch

[chaosof99]

Originally Posted by Schondetta

can someone explain to me how we know some of these cards already? i dont understand how the crunch is deduced

Usually to start the crunch we need a couple of outlier cards, e.g. one or two cards with a very early alphabetical name. A blue card with AEther in its name would probably the first or second blue card in a set. If we also have its card number we can usually deduce how many cards per color there in the set. Plug in an approximate number of multicolored, artifact and land cards appropriate for the set of its size (the size is always one of the first things WOTC announces), plus basic lands if they are in the set, and you got a good approximation which can be refined as card numbers are known.

Gatecrash is a special case though. Gatecrash appears to be a twin set to Return to Ravnica, since they have a similar theme and the same size (not counting basic lands in RTR). It also stands to reason that they should be the same, as WOTC usually wants to give factions the same amount of cards in a block. As we do not have to expect Dragon's Maze to accomplish this equilibrium, since it contains all 10 guilds.

Cards which name and number is known are bold. Cards whose name are known, but the number is not are left in regular font. Speculated names are in italics, and partial names are completed with text in brackets. If only known names are wedged between cards whose numbers are also known, you can also bold those known cards which number you don't yet know, because they can't go anywhere else.

Most of the card names entered so far are simply conclusions of cycles which started in RTR. Guildmages, Gates, Charms, and Keyrunes all have a very similar name structure, which can easily be deduced (though there can be hickups, such as with the Orzhova Guildmage actually being called Vizkopa Guildmage). The guildmasters can also be deduced from known information about the flavor of the setting. For some of these we also already have art which is similar in style to the art used for the cards in the cycle that appeared in RTR. Another cycle already entered is the Shockland cycle, as we know their names because all of them are reprinted cards. The rest of the card names are from the spoilers we have, plus the Buy-a-box promo of which we only know the name. I entered that one into multicolor, since it makes most sense to use a multicolor card as a promo for a multicolor set.

Originally Posted by Zapgaze

I have a feeling card #248 land between Stomping Ground and Watery Grave will be Transguild Promenade.

These spots are not fixed. They are subject to change unless the card and number is bold. However, I am very, very sure that WOTC is not going to print the same card in two sets of the same block.

[CadaverousBl00m]

Stomping Ground is pretty much 100% #247 according to the PAX images.

Here Lurks the Big Version of the Thumbnail Below...:

Unfortunately, every single image I can find of Breeding Pool from PAX has the collector's number obscured by the flash...

[MtGColorPie]

Originally Posted by CadaverousBl00m

Unfortunately, every single image I can find of Breeding Pool from PAX has the collector's number obscured by the flash...

The lights the have there are fantastic to display the cards in person. It's horrendous for taking photos. Even the process I go through to get better images to show up aren't full proof. None of my Breeding Pool pics came up well either. Sorry.

[empathogen]

Originally Posted by CadaverousBl00m

Stomping Ground is pretty much 100% #247 according to the PAX images.

Here Lurks the Big Version of the Thumbnail Below...:

Unfortunately, every single image I can find of Breeding Pool from PAX has the collector's number obscured by the flash...

The Domri Rade quote here is further proof against any remaining skeptics on the spoiled foils.

[Oceanus]

Come now, empathogen. Surely you realize if there are skeptics at this point, then they believe having prior information that reveals the name of Domri Rade is even more reason to suspect that somebody faked this card using said prior information xD.

[qwerty31]

Originally Posted by empathogen

The Domri Rade quote here is further proof against any remaining skeptics on the spoiled foils.

I mean, this picture was around before the 5 mythics were 'spoiled', there's no reason they couldn't have found this picture and made a card around the flavor text.

Not that I believe that's what happened; I believe the cards are real. It's just another level of thought the counterfeiter would have had to go through, as if he hadn't gone through enough already.

[Sniffnoy]

I hope you don't mind if I engage in a bit of speculation about the names of the remaining guildleaders.

Zegana's title is "Prime Speaker", so her name is probably either "Zegana, Prime Speaker" or else "Prime Speaker Zegana". It might also just be "Speaker Zegana", as she's been referred to that way a few times. I think "Zegana, Prime Speaker" is pretty likely, as this really just is her title, and I think they would prefer to lead with the name rather than the title (though I suppose Grand Arbiter Augustin IV is a Ravnican counterexample, though I'm not sure how much of a relevant one).

Lazav has been referred to as "Lazav, the Dimir Mastermind", so that's a potential name (or just "Lazav, Dimir Mastermind"). I'm not sure that's actually likely, though.

Similarly, Obzedat has been referred to as "Obzedat, the Ghost Council", so that's a potential name. This one seems kind of unlikely to me, as I suspect they might want a name that suggests more of a change in state from the originial Ghost Council of Orzhova.

Note that these names/titles are being take from these pages. Going just by RTR, most of these do not match up with the actual card names -- only Trostani does, though Niv-Mizzet and Rakdos match up with the old card name. (Isperia matches neither, and Jarad's section doesn't really give a plausible possibility for Jarad.)

Meanwhile for GTC we already know Aurelia, the Warleader (another case like Jarad where the section doesn't really give a plausible possibility) and Borborygmos Enraged (a case where it just doesn't match). So, who knows. There's a reason I didn't say "Oh hey these are probably the names". But "Zegana, Prime Speaker" (or the reverse) seems pretty likely.

Edit: Also, going by the Simic page, "Zamec Guildmage" should probably be "Zameck Guildmage", FWIW.

[void_nothing]

Based on the name of the Orzhov goldmage, their guildleader might well be called "Obzedat of Vizkopa".

[bubonic plague]

I think the Zameck Guildmage will be an Elf, not a Merfolk. Fwiw. Mainly because of the attached pictures being in the Simic fan kit. I know that's an unimportant detail, but meh, I want to contribute whatever I can.

[Cetryz]

Originally Posted by bubonic plague

I think the Zameck Guildmage will be an Elf, not a Merfolk. Fwiw. Mainly because of the attached pictures being in the Simic fan kit. I know that's an unimportant detail, but meh, I want to contribute whatever I can.

What if he is the next step in evolution? An elf and a merfolk, just like Gaea's Skyfolk

[Caranthir]

Originally Posted by bubonic plague

I think the Zameck Guildmage will be an Elf, not a Merfolk. Fwiw. Mainly because of the attached pictures being in the Simic fan kit. I know that's an unimportant detail, but meh, I want to contribute whatever I can.

On the other hand, the picture seems very like it is "taken" underwater - the overall blue hue, the kelp aroud his arms, and the position of the kelp looks like it is floating in water. I am inclined to merfolk.

[bubonic plague]

Originally Posted by Cetryz

What if he is the next step in evolution? An elf and a merfolk, just like Gaea's Skyfolk

I though about that, but that wouldn't really be keeping in line with the cycle. Every other guildmage has 1 race/1 class.

And yeah, the pic is definitely underwater, but this is the Simic...that doesnt mean merfolk. Just compare the picture I posted above with the picture of Zegana, for what merfolk look like.

[empathogen]

Originally Posted by Caranthir

On the other hand, the picture seems very like it is "taken" underwater - the overall blue hue, the kelp aroud his arms, and the position of the kelp looks like it is floating in water. I am inclined to merfolk.

Yeah, the floating kelp is a dead giveaway.
Unless the dude has anti-gravity powers (unlikely- that's already on New Prahv Guildmage),
this guy is chillin' underwater.

Maybe he's an Elf that can grant Islandwalk?

[luminum can]

The Zameck Guildmage has explicitly been referred to as being an Elf that looks a bit Merfolk-ish (quite appropriate for the guild)... but I can't remember exactly where. I think maybe the Return to Ravnica flavor/story preview panel at PAX (they briefly touched on the Gatecrash guilds)? I need to double-check.

But it would have been printed on the preview card at PAX, anyway.

Edit: I did remember correctly! Here's a video of the panel, the Zameck Guildmage shows up at 0:28:45, described as an "elf [that has] an aquatic feel."

[Rogon]

Yes, according to the panel, it was indicated that this was an elf that used magic to enhance its body, thus he could very well be a water-breathing elf. According to the mother-ship, Simic has the power to create new life-forms - so it fits into the Simic theme.