Solidarity... Discussion or something to that effect

Reset · 02-08-2005, 09:00 PM

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showt...2&page=1&pp=15

is the link to the primer...

My question is about the fetchlands... When I am testing it out I basically go off turn 3 - 4 and maybe get 1 fetchland out... With cards like stifle becoming more popular I wonder if it is really worth it... After all a fetchland is just like an island when you are going off... Do you guys and girls think that the 1 maybe 2 cards that you get to thin out are worth it? Obviously if no one runs stifle then it probably is, but if its very common then I am unsure... has anyone done some testing with this?

Qwerty · 02-08-2005, 09:11 PM

Yes and no, I have seen some builds that run 8 fetch lands that would be crippled byStifle yet I do not think. That they should not be run.

As for ‘’is the thinning worth it’’. The simple answer is yes, any card that you draw is important to Solidarity. Sometimes every card counts that means that upping you card quality from the fetch lands helps more than the chance that they could hinder the fetch land with Stifle. In addition a lot of people will save the Stifle to try and stop the Brainfreeze.

Off topic, you might want to rename the title to solidarity discussion or something to that effect

Qwerty
:bmage:

Belgareth · 02-09-2005, 03:30 AM

Qwerty once again made the vital point, that if they stifle a sacland , it's one less stifle to worry about when freezing.
The sac lands are a necessary evil as they thin your deck of land that otherwise may clog your hand, but solidarity cannot afford to miss a land drop on any turn.

As for testing , yes it has been tested , some even argue for more fetch lands

Reset · 02-09-2005, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belgareth

Qwerty once again made the vital point, that if they stifle a sacland , it's one less stifle to worry about when freezing.
The sac lands are a necessary evil as they thin your deck of land that otherwise may clog your hand, but solidarity cannot afford to miss a land drop on any turn.

While then there would be 1 less stifle to worry about it does slow you down... also I normally have another Brain Freeze in hand that I do not need to use but can if it gets stifled... Granted if 2 of them get stifled I would be up the creek with out a paddle...

I did some testing lastnight after I posted... I tested it with a blue deck with stifle in it and when I attempted to stifle the Brain Freeze it had a FoW to counter the stifle... Rarely did I have 2 Stifles in hand to do anything with... I also attempted to stifle fetch lands and while slowing the deck down a turn or 2 it was not detramental at all (I was using 6 Fetch lands). So while I do not think that the fetchlands are critical I do not think they are as vulnerable as I thought...

Anyway... What about a color splash, I have read on other forums that a color splash like white is awesome... But what benifit does it really give you that the mono blue does not?

Qwerty · 02-09-2005, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reset

While then there would be 1 less stifle to worry about it does slow you down... also I normally have another Brain Freeze in hand that I do not need to use but can if it gets stifled... Granted if 2 of them get stifled I would be up the creek with out a paddle...

I did some testing lastnight after I posted... I tested it with a blue deck with stifle in it and when I attempted to stifle the Brain Freeze it had a FoW to counter the stifle... Rarely did I have 2 Stifles in hand to do anything with... I also attempted to stifle fetch lands and while slowing the deck down a turn or 2 it was not detramental at all (I was using 6 Fetch lands). So while I do not think that the fetchlands are critical I do not think they are as vulnerable as I thought...

Anyway... What about a colour splash, I have read on other forums that a colour splash like white is awesome... But what benefit does it really give you that the mono blue does not?

Colour splash seems like a very logical thing to do, but truthfully I only think one colour has the ability and needed cards to be splashed too, and that’s white and that’s just because it deals with 3 of solidarities problems on a instant basis (artifacts, creatures and enchantments). The biggest problem i can see is that the decks you want the Swords to plowshares against have a good chance of stripping your mana base because of Wasteland.

I would argue that it is worth it though, more and more i see less decks with wasteland in them. and it could defiantly help Solidarity against decks like ATS, Zoo, ScepterC and goblin sleigh.

Qwerty
:bmage:

Ps
I didnt mean to change the name to exactly that but I suppose it fits

Reset · 02-09-2005, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwerty

Colour splash seems like a very logical thing to do, but truthfully I only think one colour has the ability and needed cards to be splashed too, and that’s white and that’s just because it deals with 3 of solidarities problems on a instant basis (artifacts, creatures and enchantments).

The issue with Artifacts, creatures and enchantment... Yes White has good answers to all of them but what can they get rid of that Chain of Vapor Cannot handle? For the most part I do not care if it gets destroyed or bounced into their hand... Since all of the spells are instants and as long as the card is not in play it wouldnt be much of an issue...

Qwerty · 02-09-2005, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reset

The issue with Artifacts, creatures and enchantment... Yes White has good answers to all of them but what can they get rid of that Chain of Vapor Cannot handle? For the most part I do not care if it gets destroyed or bounced into their hand... Since all of the spells are instants and as long as the card is not in play it wouldnt be much of an issue...

Chain gets most of them, but it doesn’t get them on permanent basis, And how I wish I could Chain of vapour a Piledriver. Still if I had to run Solidarity it would be a mono U version.

Qwerty

Static · 02-22-2005, 06:39 PM

I want to build this deck. Really want to. Frantic Search would be perfect but it is banned. What about Rewind? If you need to counter and have used High Tide you can actually gain mana.

Belgareth · 02-23-2005, 04:37 AM

I thought about rewind, but often if you get it and don't need to counter something it results in dead cards which this deck can't afford

GRAH · 02-23-2005, 04:19 PM

Rewind is TERRIBLE. The only "free" spells in your deck should be, MAYBE, a Snap in the Wishboard.

Belgareth · 02-23-2005, 05:27 PM

I wouldn't even play that.

Washu · 03-10-2005, 11:09 AM

here is a budget Solidarity deck that has been doing well for me against aggro. I dont have very many control matches, and only a few combo, so i keep counter in the board for now, plus it is budget, i made it for $45, and a little trading

//NAME: Solidarity
// engine
4 Reset
4 High Tide
4 Turnabout
// draw
4 Brainstorm
4 Meditate
4 Accumulated Knowledge
3 Read the Runes
3 Impulse
3 Mystical Tutor
// Kill
1 Flash of Insight
3 Words of Wisdom
4 Brain Freeze
// lands
19 Island
// Sideboard
SB: 4 Chain of Vapor
SB: 3 Extract
SB: 4 Daze
SB: 4 Foil

Off the wall card explanations:
Read the Runes: This is good late game, right before you go off, it lets you dig for what you need, and ditch it for the land in your hand

Extract: This is against ATS, it completely wrecks their deck, bring this and counters in, and when you extract first turn, you know what is in their hand, and how to stop it.

My build goes off reliably turn 5, but sometimes early, and on ****ty draws, later

CynicalSquirrel · 03-10-2005, 01:53 PM

Read the Runes is really bad in this deck. Really bad. First of all, you can't force your opponent to draw with it, so it doesn't double as a win condition. Second of all, Solidarity is a deck that runs no permanents. What do you plan to sacrifice to Read the Runes? Lands are far too valuable to the deck, so it's basically Draw X, Discard X, which isn't very good. I know you want it to be a budget deck, but for a card like that it needs to be Stroke of Genius or nothing. Just shell out the extra 3 bucks for Strokes.

I also don't see how Extract "wrecks ATS". ATS is a very durable deck, and removing one card from it might make it slow down a little bit, but certainly not wreck it. It's also a Sorcery, and I don't think any Solidarity decks should ever run Sorceries in them. Playing spells at the end of your opponents turn is key.

Doctor Teeth · 04-06-2005, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CynicalSquirrel

Solidarity decks should ever run Sorceries in them. Playing spells at the end of your opponents turn is key.

Point 1: Yes, Sorceries are cards you draw that are essentially LAND while going off. No, no sorceries, only instants, and LOTS of them

Point 2: The optimal time to go off would be during there draw step, that way you could, in theory, mid storm, turnabout theie lands, then allow the stack to empty, and swtich phases so they can't float mana into a stifle. Your Tides will still be active throughout the turn, and your spells still count. so it's nothign you have to worry about. It is the best time to start going off because of the Turnabout factor.

I would NEVER attempt to go off with Solidarity turn 3, unless there's lethal damage on the stack. Why? Why take the added chance of fizzling, when every card you draw and every land you lay exponentially heightens your resiliancy. Hell, against control especially, I'll wait til 8-10 to go off, because I have as many lands as I'll EVER need, and have a hand with multiple Reset functions, and probably 2 High Tides (casting one in response to the Force that's about to target the first).

Odie · 07-06-2005, 02:00 PM

I've play tested with Solidarity and I've enjoyed the BAM! your gone feel of it. Counterspells can wreck you (ie. Landstill). Not resolving that one important Turnabout or Reset can set you back long enough. As far as the aggro decks you can speed out just as fast or faster.

I see Mikokoro, Center of the Sea being a decent addition to the deck. If you'll have enough mana from the High Tides and such tapping for 2 to make them draw that final card would help and disrupt counterspell problems.

Wadda' ya' think?

My2,

Odie

02-08-2005, 09:00 PM	#1
Reset Common Mage Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 38	Solidarity... Discussion or something to that effect http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showt...2&page=1&pp=15 is the link to the primer... My question is about the fetchlands... When I am testing it out I basically go off turn 3 - 4 and maybe get 1 fetchland out... With cards like stifle becoming more popular I wonder if it is really worth it... After all a fetchland is just like an island when you are going off... Do you guys and girls think that the 1 maybe 2 cards that you get to thin out are worth it? Obviously if no one runs stifle then it probably is, but if its very common then I am unsure... has anyone done some testing with this? __________________ Vintage == Yu-Gi-Oh "Give a man fire, and he will be warm for a day... Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life" :flame: Last edited by Sapphire Tri : 01-17-2006 at 03:22 PM.

02-08-2005, 09:11 PM	#2
Qwerty If you never tell a lie to her Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Between heaven and hell, Blue Posts: 2,929	Yes and no, I have seen some builds that run 8 fetch lands that would be crippled byStifle yet I do not think. That they should not be run. As for ‘’is the thinning worth it’’. The simple answer is yes, any card that you draw is important to Solidarity. Sometimes every card counts that means that upping you card quality from the fetch lands helps more than the chance that they could hinder the fetch land with Stifle. In addition a lot of people will save the Stifle to try and stop the Brainfreeze. Off topic, you might want to rename the title to solidarity discussion or something to that effect Qwerty :bmage: __________________ Oi, Oi. Can you blatantly say looking straight in her face that you aint telling tales to her? That you never get stressed when she questions events you'll be best to forget, Can you actually blag when the lamb glances when you prang and your chatting? That if you had the chance to go back to her pad for a passionate act you wouldn't have it? Oi, Why's that then?

02-22-2005, 06:39 PM	#8
Static Wizard Mentor Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,236	I want to build this deck. Really want to. Frantic Search would be perfect but it is banned. What about Rewind? If you need to counter and have used High Tide you can actually gain mana. __________________ Official MTGsneakyhomunculus Mod

03-10-2005, 11:09 AM	#12
Washu TRADEBANNED Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 88	here is a budget Solidarity deck that has been doing well for me against aggro. I dont have very many control matches, and only a few combo, so i keep counter in the board for now, plus it is budget, i made it for $45, and a little trading //NAME: Solidarity // engine 4 Reset 4 High Tide 4 Turnabout // draw 4 Brainstorm 4 Meditate 4 Accumulated Knowledge 3 Read the Runes 3 Impulse 3 Mystical Tutor // Kill 1 Flash of Insight 3 Words of Wisdom 4 Brain Freeze // lands 19 Island // Sideboard SB: 4 Chain of Vapor SB: 3 Extract SB: 4 Daze SB: 4 Foil Off the wall card explanations: Read the Runes: This is good late game, right before you go off, it lets you dig for what you need, and ditch it for the land in your hand Extract: This is against ATS, it completely wrecks their deck, bring this and counters in, and when you extract first turn, you know what is in their hand, and how to stop it. My build goes off reliably turn 5, but sometimes early, and on ***ty draws, later __________________ Only Death Shall Judge Me* This user has been banned from trading on MTGsalvation.

07-06-2005, 02:00 PM	#15
Odie Wizard Mentor Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Fairfield, Ohio Posts: 518	Solidarity possible addition I've play tested with Solidarity and I've enjoyed the BAM! your gone feel of it. Counterspells can wreck you (ie. Landstill). Not resolving that one important Turnabout or Reset can set you back long enough. As far as the aggro decks you can speed out just as fast or faster. I see Mikokoro, Center of the Sea being a decent addition to the deck. If you'll have enough mana from the High Tides and such tapping for 2 to make them draw that final card would help and disrupt counterspell problems. Wadda' ya' think? My2, Odie


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02-09-2005, 03:30 AM	#3
Belgareth Hylian Knight Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hyrule Posts: 9,897	Qwerty once again made the vital point, that if they stifle a sacland , it's one less stifle to worry about when freezing. The sac lands are a necessary evil as they thin your deck of land that otherwise may clog your hand, but solidarity cannot afford to miss a land drop on any turn. As for testing , yes it has been tested , some even argue for more fetch lands

03-10-2005, 01:53 PM	#13
CynicalSquirrel It's All a Matter of Perspective MTGS Writer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,839 Blog Entries: 2	Read the Runes is really bad in this deck. Really bad. First of all, you can't force your opponent to draw with it, so it doesn't double as a win condition. Second of all, Solidarity is a deck that runs no permanents. What do you plan to sacrifice to Read the Runes? Lands are far too valuable to the deck, so it's basically Draw X, Discard X, which isn't very good. I know you want it to be a budget deck, but for a card like that it needs to be Stroke of Genius or nothing. Just shell out the extra 3 bucks for Strokes. I also don't see how Extract "wrecks ATS". ATS is a very durable deck, and removing one card from it might make it slow down a little bit, but certainly not wreck it. It's also a Sorcery, and I don't think any Solidarity decks should ever run Sorceries in them. Playing spells at the end of your opponents turn is key.

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