Intro: I've been a fan of B/R Zombies since I first saw the list (back in Oct or Nov) and I took it to FNM and a few other tournaments and it was alright until Sphinx's Revelation now don't get me wrong its a good card but if they cast it once they will most likely win the game (not always but around 75% of the time) and I figured best way to deal with them is 3 Slaughter Games in the Sideboard. and it worked for the most part until I played U/W/r Flash! I hate that deck with a passion!! I've played good people playing it and bad players but it doesn't matter cause most players will counter anything that moves. This is where I went to a decent sized Local Tourney (80 people $400 Split Top 8 + attendance) and I took 11th only losing to 4c Sphinx's Revelation deck and U/W/r Flash decks.
I felt like I should take a break from Magic and so I did... (for a day)
the night I "took a break" from magic I thought to my self if only I had a Thalia and this is was the Inception of Next Level Zombie
basically this is a B/R shell splashed White for good things
these are the white cards that I found to make the most sense in the deck (to me) now I don't play Lingering Souls or Faith's Shield but they could be a really nice SB card vs. some decks
as you can I chucked the guildgates to the curb (I really dislike them) and added 4 Isolated Chapels and removed 1 Swamp
for a single Clifftop Retreat now my thoughts on this at first were eh they might still come into play tapped but now I have an extra color and there is a chance they will enter untapped now.
It basically Play like B/R Zombies but you can really mess up your opponent via Thalia and apply pressure when they cast farseek turn 3.
depending on the match up I love or hate Restoration Angel but when she is good (Vs. Izzet Staticaster decks) its really fun Blinking Geralf's Messenger after he already dies (even better if sac'd via Falkenrath Aristocrat) it just makes him all the better.
I'd like to thank the people that were interested in my build and that I might not have posted this if I didn't see an interest!
Also for those of you who don't like the idea, Haters gonna hate =D
I want to say this will absolutely be a deck post GTC. Honestly, I think peoples minds are going to be blown when tribes can essentially run "good stuff" decks due to Cavern of Souls. I'm very excited.
This looks really solid... fixes most of the issues plaguing zombies. Like this a lot. You think is enough in the UWR matchup. I can see Faith's Shield coming in against it as some help with removal. Tell us how it does... I'm interested.
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EDH Decks UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition) WRKalemne's Angels BRUG Yidris's Wild Party UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys UBRThe Pretender
Adding white is nice. Did you consider Sorin, Lord of Innistrad when you splash white. But seriously, looks fun to play and this deck may rock when GC comes
This looks really solid... fixes most of the issues plaguing zombies. Like this a lot. You think is enough in the UWR matchup. I can see Faith's Shield coming in against it as some help with removal. Tell us how it does... I'm interested.
^My brother play Dark America and yes if I resolve a turn 2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben it usually doesn't have a good answer I haven't done much testing with Faith's Shield yet but I can see it will be promising in the future.
Adding white is nice. Did you consider Sorin, Lord of Innistrad when you splash white. But seriously, looks fun to play and this deck may rock when GC comes
^as stated below with thalia in this deck sorin would cost 5 and you have to remember this is an aggro/disruption deck you want to apply pressure and hold it with various threats Sorin Lord of Innistrad is not fast and does not apply much pressure for this deck
First off thalia will make him a 5 drop. If you don't have thalia online, he still isn't worth it. He's a +1/+0 anthem for 2BW in this deck, we don't need those 1/1 vampires.
Can't help but feel like cloudshift should deserve a spot. Doubling up on geralf's ETB triggers seem nice. I"m still pretty stuck on GB zombies but this list....is just so tempting.
Looks like a great deck, loving the idea, but im afraid Deathrite is pretty useless here, even in the SB. You never know when you wished you had the livegain. Also, i'd take out 1x-3x Searing Spear (remember you are running Thalia. 3cmc for 3 damage isn't that good) and add MD Slaughter Games. Every deck has a 4-of Bomb that when removed can make your life easier, and will help you win more Game 1's. Anyway, a nice idea.
Hellrider and Thundermaw Hellkite look pretty ambitious with that manabase, I'd probably cut them. However, RA and Thalia seem super good in this deck. After GTC I can see this deck being a real force. I'd probably play 3-4 Thalias, 4 Aristocrats and 2-3 Restoration Angels.
Lingering Souls and Faith's Shield don't belong in this deck IMO
Theres a whole discussion in the Standard Forum or somewhere about Evolving Wilds vs Guildgates. If you're playing 4c, and you say your mana base is shaky, id add in a Orzhov/Boros Guildgate when they come out. And if you are playing white, consider Knight of Glory.
Nearhearth Pilgrim could be an option, as stated above some of the cards might not fit this deck. I've taken a break from standard for the past week or so but I plan on making a primer for B/R/W ("Oros", "Dega", "Egypt", "War", "Neopolitan", "Nazi") seems people all have their own idea on what to call the colors
and I will try to update this in the future
I really think you could just splash white for Thalia and it would be enough to help the deck without changing up the current zombie builds too much...
I really think you could just splash white for Thalia and it would be enough to help the deck without changing up the current zombie builds too much...
I've seen Thrull Parasite in a few B/W list and he seems good In those lists I have been doing some testing with my updated list and this is what I have
it might seem odd running the Skullcracks Maindeck but they are great for a few reasons stops life gain for 2 same cost for 3 to the face as Spear and can still hit Walkers.
I wanted to add bump in the night and be a super aggressive burn deck but I haven't found a good balance with it so far
To be honest, I think this idea of splashing white is awful. The mana of the BR zombies decks is already one of the most fragile points of the deck second only to its complete lack of defensive utility or tendency to be walled off by even meager board positions.
The dirty little secret of zombies is that without an aggressive draw, diregraf ghoul and gravecrawler are very mediocre. They can't trade effectively with most of the format and need a hellrider, falkenrath aristocrat, heavy burn backup, or sheer numbers in order for them to be good at all. To accomplish this, the deck needs a very tight mana base that is compromised some way or another. Running hellrider and an almost entirely red instant/sorcery package in a deck that needs to hit B on 1, BC on turn 2, and BBB on turn 3 is already hard enough. If you give up any consistency on the aggression of being able to swarm on turns 1 through 3 or drop a curve topper on 4, the package of 12 zombies becomes nearly unplayable.
There is nothing wrong with playing a WBR deck or playing geralf's messenger. The problem is that every deck list I have seen in this thread almost pointless compromises the mana consistency and aggression needed to make diregraf ghoul or gravecrawler constructed playable cards.
The main deck has three white cards. This is a very low value splash. It could be strongly argued that it's a negative value splash because red cards would be superior to thalia.
To be honest, I think this idea of splashing white is awful. The mana of the BR zombies decks is already one of the most fragile points of the deck second only to its complete lack of defensive utility or tendency to be walled off by even meager board positions.
The dirty little secret of zombies is that without an aggressive draw, diregraf ghoul and gravecrawler are very mediocre. They can't trade effectively with most of the format and need a hellrider, falkenrath aristocrat, heavy burn backup, or sheer numbers in order for them to be good at all. To accomplish this, the deck needs a very tight mana base that is compromised some way or another. Running hellrider and an almost entirely red instant/sorcery package in a deck that needs to hit B on 1, BC on turn 2, and BBB on turn 3 is already hard enough. If you give up any consistency on the aggression of being able to swarm on turns 1 through 3 or drop a curve topper on 4, the package of 12 zombies becomes nearly unplayable.
There is nothing wrong with playing a WBR deck or playing geralf's messenger. The problem is that every deck list I have seen in this thread almost pointless compromises the mana consistency and aggression needed to make diregraf ghoul or gravecrawler constructed playable cards.
Take the OP deck list for example.
The main deck has three white cards. This is a very low value splash. It could be strongly argued that it's a negative value splash because red cards would be superior to thalia.
Thing is, more red wouldn't solve the problem people had with cards in former meta Thalia did.
hitting BBB on turn 3 is vary consistent if you look at the black sources thats 20 including Cavern of Souls calling zombie
I can tell you like RDW's yeah maybe its not as consistent as mono colored decks but if you have 8 duels and 4 caverns (for just B/) that isn't a horrible base.
right now the main reason to go 3 colors is so we can play better cards.
Cloudshift IMO was pointless(not worthless) for offensive minded deck like BR Zombie
nay I have not giving cloudshift the time of day it would be much better in a B/W version of the deck that runs 2-4 Ghost dad's and 4 Restoration Angels alongside 4 Geralf's Messenger and some other sac/flicker shenanigans it could be good but this is more of an aggro build leaning on the midrange side.
This is a great idea for a deck. Have you tested it? If so, what were your results? I agree on Deathrite, he is a fantastic card. But If you arn't playing the green, I probably would take him out. (He still looks good though, maybe good support) I play a BUG tempo where he is the king. All kinds of grave yard shanagains.
This is a great idea for a deck. Have you tested it? If so, what were your results? I agree on Deathrite, he is a fantastic card. But If you arn't playing the green, I probably would take him out. (He still looks good though, maybe good support) I play a BUG tempo where he is the king. All kinds of grave yard shanagains.
I have tested it but I haven't played it in an actual tournament it was a good/fun deck but I am not sure its optimal in this meta maybe if it was tweaked more as a midrange deck it could be I think there are a few threads on that
basically I got sick of the good cards in the old meta so I made this Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is still one of my favorite cards but I don't think she is strong enough against the meta to be worth splashing in zombies(Kinda meta dependent to be honest) I think straight up B/R is the way to go right now, its still a really powerful deck just doesn't see play due to Boros Reckoner and other more popular options.
I felt like I should take a break from Magic and so I did... (for a day)
the night I "took a break" from magic I thought to my self if only I had a Thalia and this is was the Inception of Next Level Zombie
basically this is a B/R shell splashed White for good things
What Good Things you ask?
2 Restoration Angel
2 Lingering Souls
2 Faith's Shield
these are the white cards that I found to make the most sense in the deck (to me) now I don't play Lingering Souls or Faith's Shield but they could be a really nice SB card vs. some decks
My Deck list.
4 Blood Crypt
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Dragonskull Summit
6 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Clifftop Retreat
Creatures:
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Gravecrawler
2 Hellrider
4 Knight of Infamy
3 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
2 Ultimate Price
3 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Restoration Angel
2 Duress
1 Ultimate Price
2 Pillar of Flame
3 Slaughter Games
2 Deathrite Shaman
as you can I chucked the guildgates to the curb (I really dislike them) and added 4 Isolated Chapels and removed 1 Swamp
for a single Clifftop Retreat now my thoughts on this at first were eh they might still come into play tapped but now I have an extra color and there is a chance they will enter untapped now.
It basically Play like B/R Zombies but you can really mess up your opponent via Thalia and apply pressure when they cast farseek turn 3.
depending on the match up I love or hate Restoration Angel but when she is good (Vs. Izzet Staticaster decks) its really fun Blinking Geralf's Messenger after he already dies (even better if sac'd via Falkenrath Aristocrat) it just makes him all the better.
I'd like to thank the people that were interested in my build and that I might not have posted this if I didn't see an interest!
Also for those of you who don't like the idea, Haters gonna hate =D
Happy posting!
3rd at Wisconsin States 2012
Standard:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Next Lvl ZombiesB//
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JUND Whedon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks to DNC @ Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Sig.
EDH Decks
UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life
RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them
WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition)
WRKalemne's Angels
BRUG Yidris's Wild Party
UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys
UBR The Pretender
^Thanks =D
^My brother play Dark America and yes if I resolve a turn 2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben it usually doesn't have a good answer I haven't done much testing with Faith's Shield yet but I can see it will be promising in the future.
^as stated below with thalia in this deck sorin would cost 5 and you have to remember this is an aggro/disruption deck you want to apply pressure and hold it with various threats Sorin Lord of Innistrad is not fast and does not apply much pressure for this deck
^correct.
3rd at Wisconsin States 2012
Standard:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Next Lvl ZombiesB//
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JUND Whedon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks to DNC @ Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Sig.
I really like Thalia here...but this could leave a zombie shell and just include good cards from other colours.
My deviantART; if you're interested in alters, PM me!
Lingering Souls and Faith's Shield don't belong in this deck IMO
Youtube Channel
Theres a whole discussion in the Standard Forum or somewhere about Evolving Wilds vs Guildgates. If you're playing 4c, and you say your mana base is shaky, id add in a Orzhov/Boros Guildgate when they come out. And if you are playing white, consider Knight of Glory.
My deviantART; if you're interested in alters, PM me!
Modern: U Living End
Standard: UW Approach of the Second Sun
and I will try to update this in the future
3rd at Wisconsin States 2012
Standard:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Next Lvl ZombiesB//
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JUND Whedon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks to DNC @ Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Sig.
I agree I think for this current card pool this is where its at looking forward to some of the new cards we'll get!
3rd at Wisconsin States 2012
Standard:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Next Lvl ZombiesB//
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JUND Whedon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks to DNC @ Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Sig.
i would ask how about Thrull Parasite just to add stings to Geralf's messenger & Gravecrawler
especially with Falkenrath aristocrat as sac outlet, this little guy turn every our Creature to Messenger with his Extort
I've seen Thrull Parasite in a few B/W list and he seems good In those lists I have been doing some testing with my updated list and this is what I have
4 Gravecrawler
3 Restoration Angel
4 Knight of Infamy
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
Noncreature Spells: 14
4 Boros Charm
4 Searing Spear
4 Skullcrack
2 Orzhov Charm
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Godless Shrine
4 Blood Crypt
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Dragonskull Summit
3 Clifftop Retreat
3 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Pillar of Flame
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Slaughter Games
2 Blind Obedience
it might need some work but the burn package has improved alot with Gatecrash
4 Searing Spear
4 Skullcrack
it might seem odd running the Skullcracks Maindeck but they are great for a few reasons stops life gain for 2 same cost for 3 to the face as Spear and can still hit Walkers.
I wanted to add bump in the night and be a super aggressive burn deck but I haven't found a good balance with it so far
3rd at Wisconsin States 2012
Standard:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Next Lvl ZombiesB//
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JUND Whedon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks to DNC @ Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Sig.
The dirty little secret of zombies is that without an aggressive draw, diregraf ghoul and gravecrawler are very mediocre. They can't trade effectively with most of the format and need a hellrider, falkenrath aristocrat, heavy burn backup, or sheer numbers in order for them to be good at all. To accomplish this, the deck needs a very tight mana base that is compromised some way or another. Running hellrider and an almost entirely red instant/sorcery package in a deck that needs to hit B on 1, BC on turn 2, and BBB on turn 3 is already hard enough. If you give up any consistency on the aggression of being able to swarm on turns 1 through 3 or drop a curve topper on 4, the package of 12 zombies becomes nearly unplayable.
There is nothing wrong with playing a WBR deck or playing geralf's messenger. The problem is that every deck list I have seen in this thread almost pointless compromises the mana consistency and aggression needed to make diregraf ghoul or gravecrawler constructed playable cards.
Take the OP deck list for example.
The main deck has three white cards. This is a very low value splash. It could be strongly argued that it's a negative value splash because red cards would be superior to thalia.
Thing is, more red wouldn't solve the problem people had with cards in former meta Thalia did.
hitting BBB on turn 3 is vary consistent if you look at the black sources thats 20 including Cavern of Souls calling zombie
I can tell you like RDW's yeah maybe its not as consistent as mono colored decks but if you have 8 duels and 4 caverns (for just B/) that isn't a horrible base.
right now the main reason to go 3 colors is so we can play better cards.
3rd at Wisconsin States 2012
Standard:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Next Lvl ZombiesB//
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JUND Whedon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks to DNC @ Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Sig.
What about Silverblade Paladin?
Also maybe a 2-2 split of KoI and KoG?
Cloudshift IMO was pointless(not worthless) for offensive minded deck like BR Zombie
nay I have not giving cloudshift the time of day it would be much better in a B/W version of the deck that runs 2-4 Ghost dad's and 4 Restoration Angels alongside 4 Geralf's Messenger and some other sac/flicker shenanigans it could be good but this is more of an aggro build leaning on the midrange side.
I wish Silverblade Paladin could work but I think that its too much white.
3rd at Wisconsin States 2012
Standard:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Next Lvl ZombiesB//
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JUND Whedon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks to DNC @ Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Sig.
This is a great idea for a deck. Have you tested it? If so, what were your results? I agree on Deathrite, he is a fantastic card. But If you arn't playing the green, I probably would take him out. (He still looks good though, maybe good support) I play a BUG tempo where he is the king. All kinds of grave yard shanagains.
I have tested it but I haven't played it in an actual tournament it was a good/fun deck but I am not sure its optimal in this meta maybe if it was tweaked more as a midrange deck it could be I think there are a few threads on that
basically I got sick of the good cards in the old meta so I made this Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is still one of my favorite cards but I don't think she is strong enough against the meta to be worth splashing in zombies(Kinda meta dependent to be honest) I think straight up B/R is the way to go right now, its still a really powerful deck just doesn't see play due to Boros Reckoner and other more popular options.
3rd at Wisconsin States 2012
Standard:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Next Lvl ZombiesB//
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JUND Whedon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks to DNC @ Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Sig.